DeluxeStang Posted December 7, 2024 Share Posted December 7, 2024 6 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said: Nope. I’m not even sure what I thought it was was even a possibility anymore Damn. Well I had to try lol. Whatever it was sounded pretty interesting, but I understand not wanting to talk about it, especially if you don't know if the project is moving forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeluxeStang Posted December 7, 2024 Share Posted December 7, 2024 47 minutes ago, ExplorerDude said: An additional body style / configuration (4-door) plus a possible high end Lincoln variant would add volume (if approved). But I believe someone asked Fuzzy if if was a mustang sedan back when this rumor was first coming out, and he said no. Mid-engine mustang perhaps? That sounds like the sort of balls out, super secretive project that would be a far stretch, but get people talking. If it wasn't that, or a mustang sedan, or the raptor variant, I really have no idea what it could have been lol. A mustang sedan would be quite nice, we'll see if that ends up moving forward. It seems like it would be hard to stretch the s650 into a sedan, so I wonder if Ford dusts off their plans for the CD6 RWD sedans instead of trying to use the s650 chassis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherminator98 Posted December 7, 2024 Share Posted December 7, 2024 5 hours ago, jpd80 said: Precisely, it’s also why Farley is starting to question how ICE vehicles are designed and made. In a recent EV discussion, Farley shared that one particular vehicle had up to 150 control modules (I’m betting F150) and to save $500/vehicle, ford let out the contract individually to tender so none of them actually talk to each other - example, Ford has to go to Bosch if it wants to change seat control. Recent chip shortage exposed a huge issue with Ford and other carmaker designs, it’s way past time that institutionalised design rules be changed and streamlined to simplify build processes. It’s like the designs became overly complex because departments were preserving or at least justify their existence. The other issue is that electronics are far more complex if they went that route, that is why the likes of VW is working with Rivian now. The big thing is "software defined" modules that allow them to do different things. Easiest way to explain Software defined is a radio-older military radios used fixed frequencies that could be compromised or jammed. The big thing over the past 10-20 years is make software do everything that a radio needed to do and it would be far easier to change outputs or signals it needed to use, outside of easier crypto loading also. Not to mention if your not used to doing something a different way, it take alot of effort to make people think or do stuff differently. The way electronics are done in cars have been done like that for the past 40 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick73 Posted December 7, 2024 Share Posted December 7, 2024 Including useful features that add value at little or no cost through good engineering should also help improve sales. One example is 2025 Maverick Hybrid AWD being flat towable as reported by Ford Authority. Probably won’t make a huge difference, but motorhome owners prefer flat towing when possible, and also light weight. Maverick Hybrid in both FWD and AWD can meet that need. Another Ford decision that should help sales is exporting Transit Custom PHEV to Australia. I wish Ford could import Custom PHEV to North America. On flip side Ford Authority also reports Hyundai, Kia, and Genesis beat Ford in providing electric vehicles with integrated NACS connector so adaptors are not required at Tesla Superchargers. Direct connector may be a small difference but every bit helps, and begs the question of why Ford couldn’t make update as quickly as Hyundai. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted December 7, 2024 Share Posted December 7, 2024 5 hours ago, Rick73 said: ....On flip side Ford Authority also reports Hyundai, Kia, and Genesis beat Ford in providing electric vehicles with integrated NACS connector so adaptors are not required at Tesla Superchargers. Direct connector may be a small difference but every bit helps, and begs the question of why Ford couldn’t make update as quickly as Hyundai. Looked at a Lincoln Corsair PHEV and it only has the J1772 charge port....am I missing something? Is CCS or NACS too much for a PHEV? Mazda CX-70/90 has the CCS port. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 7, 2024 Share Posted December 7, 2024 1 hour ago, twintornados said: Looked at a Lincoln Corsair PHEV and it only has the J1772 charge port....am I missing something? Is CCS or NACS too much for a PHEV? Mazda CX-70/90 has the CCS port. Probably waiting for a refresh. Besides, you don’t really need to use public chargers with a PHEV. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texasota Posted December 7, 2024 Share Posted December 7, 2024 4 hours ago, akirby said: Probably waiting for a refresh. Besides, you don’t really need to use public chargers with a PHEV. Exactly. Using a public charger for a PHEV makes no sense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted December 7, 2024 Share Posted December 7, 2024 4 hours ago, akirby said: Probably waiting for a refresh. Besides, you don’t really need to use public chargers with a PHEV. 20 minutes ago, Texasota said: Exactly. Using a public charger for a PHEV makes no sense. Having that option is what makes a difference in a sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick73 Posted December 7, 2024 Share Posted December 7, 2024 5 hours ago, twintornados said: Looked at a Lincoln Corsair PHEV and it only has the J1772 charge port....am I missing something? Is CCS or NACS too much for a PHEV? Mazda CX-70/90 has the CCS port. Interesting question. I don’t see a reason why it couldn’t have a NACS connector due to it being a PHEV and therefore require less charging power. The lower priority because PHEVs don’t need to charge away from home, as mentioned above, is likely the reason in addition to not having done it yet on any model. For clarity, we should keep in mind that Hyundai just started switching over to NACS on a few models. They have a ways to go also. Timing seems odd because Ford was first to join Tesla-developed standard IIRC. As far as battery size/capacity, if that’s what you were referring to, some larger PHEV batteries are as large as small BEVs’, so that in itself should not prevent use of NACS. Also, future PHEV (or EREV) could soon end up with batteries near 100 kWh capacity. Regardless, I expect switching over to NCAS is just a matter of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 7, 2024 Share Posted December 7, 2024 33 minutes ago, twintornados said: Having that option is what makes a difference in a sale. No reason for a PHEV to use a public charger. That’s why they bought a PHEV - so they don’t have to worry about charging in public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 7, 2024 Share Posted December 7, 2024 (edited) 17 hours ago, Sherminator98 said: The other issue is that electronics are far more complex if they went that route, that is why the likes of VW is working with Rivian now. The big thing is "software defined" modules that allow them to do different things. Easiest way to explain Software defined is a radio-older military radios used fixed frequencies that could be compromised or jammed. The big thing over the past 10-20 years is make software do everything that a radio needed to do and it would be far easier to change outputs or signals it needed to use, outside of easier crypto loading also. Not to mention if your not used to doing something a different way, it take alot of effort to make people think or do stuff differently. The way electronics are done in cars have been done like that for the past 40 years. The biggest culture issue Ford has is it keeps thinking that outsourcing is lower cost. How many times do they have to get burned before they learn…. Edited December 7, 2024 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGR Posted December 7, 2024 Share Posted December 7, 2024 18 hours ago, ExplorerDude said: An additional body style / configuration (4-door) plus a possible high end Lincoln variant would add volume (if approved). Thank you. They showed a rendering of the Mustang sedan at a Ford dealer convention, and Jim Farley himself has mentioned it. That's as much confirmation as we'll get or need. The guy who has the Tony's Mustangs and Fords YouTube channel had a 5-7 minute video arguing against calling the 4-door a Mustang. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted December 7, 2024 Share Posted December 7, 2024 (edited) A lot of that was Farley trying to trot out interesting product for dealers to talk about. At the time he was getting his ass roasted over million dollar EV upgrades. Fast forward to December 2024 and XLT Lightning available with 0% 72 month finance plus $4,500 cash and free home charger… and there are so many Lightnings sitting unsold that production was first cut to one shift and then stopped until the new year.. Edited December 7, 2024 by jpd80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texasota Posted December 7, 2024 Share Posted December 7, 2024 4 hours ago, akirby said: No reason for a PHEV to use a public charger. That’s why they bought a PHEV - so they don’t have to worry about charging in public. And you would have to be a glutton for punishment (or a climate zealot) to wait 2-3 hours at a public charger to gain ~30-50 miles of EV driving. Almost all PHEVs are limited to either level 1 or level 2 charging. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted December 8, 2024 Share Posted December 8, 2024 17 hours ago, akirby said: No reason for a PHEV to use a public charger. That’s why they bought a PHEV - so they don’t have to worry about charging in public. I just thought it was odd that the Lincoln doesn't have it while other PHEV's do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 8, 2024 Share Posted December 8, 2024 3 hours ago, twintornados said: I just thought it was odd that the Lincoln doesn't have it while other PHEV's do. Like I said, probably just waiting for a refresh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew L Posted December 9, 2024 Share Posted December 9, 2024 Looks like Lincoln will crack 100k sales this year barring some anomaly this month. I hope they can use that momentum to give the brand something new soon they need it. 4 SUV/CUVs isn't enough. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick73 Posted December 9, 2024 Share Posted December 9, 2024 On 12/7/2024 at 4:54 PM, Texasota said: And you would have to be a glutton for punishment (or a climate zealot) to wait 2-3 hours at a public charger to gain ~30-50 miles of EV driving. Almost all PHEVs are limited to either level 1 or level 2 charging. Great point. This is a prime example in my opinion where technology exists to do much better but the economics just don’t work out favorably. PHEV batteries should be able to charge at least as fast as BEV’s, so 15~20 minutes (to 80%) could provide 25~40 miles of added range fairly fast, but very few owners would benefit from that use case. I suppose some apartment dwellers who drive very little during week could commute on electricity by charging once a week or so, and then be able to take long trips on gas on weekends, etc. However, owners who only drive 40 miles a week (+/- 2,000 a year) would not save enough on EV versus gas to justify the cost of buying a PHEV in the first place, and even less if vehicle is made more expensive by adding fast-charging capabilities. Just saying we can always find a few potential customers who can benefit from some combination of technologies, but if number of buyers is too small, or benefit they gain is not financially profitable, it makes no sense to pursue the technology even when available. To me that line of reasoning applies to a lot of things beyond PHEVs and BEVs that manufacturers should consider more critically. Otherwise cars gradually become unnecessarily more expensive, complicated, and less reliable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted December 9, 2024 Share Posted December 9, 2024 On 12/6/2024 at 11:46 AM, pictor said: This forums is not the EV's main target audience, it is more of echo chamber for ICE stalwarts. After driving an EV for year I can say categorically that I would not replace it with ICE vehicle. The problem with any social media is they tend to aggregate like minded folks. I think it depends on a multitude of factors on whether you can replace an ICE with an EV, ie. usage type, infrastructure, weather, etc. After driving an EV for six months in the capacity in which I was using it, I would absolutely NOT replace my ICE vehicle with an EV. If I were using it in a personal capacity, I might consider it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted December 9, 2024 Share Posted December 9, 2024 13 hours ago, Andrew L said: Looks like Lincoln will crack 100k sales this year barring some anomaly this month. I hope they can use that momentum to give the brand something new soon they need it. 4 SUV/CUVs isn't enough. Perhaps Lincoln sales would be even better but for the China factor. I concede there are people who could care less or are oblivious to the fact that the Nautilus is made there, but I am certain there are people like me who do pay attention and it has caused the Nautilus to be dismissed from consideration. It’s unfortunate, because the Nautilus is the size of vehicle my wife is considering for her next vehicle. It’s not even that I believe China can’t effectively build the Nautilus, as the iPhone that I type this on sufficiently shows, but it’s that I want to do as much as I can minimize anything that might benefit China. Sadly it is unrealistic for it to be a zero sum game, but I try to do my part. Also consider availability issues. Have their been lost sales due to long lead times or lack of available units on lots. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted December 9, 2024 Share Posted December 9, 2024 On 12/6/2024 at 12:30 PM, mackinaw said: According to the UAW contract, a new vehicle is slated for Flat Rock. They've said that the last 2-3 contracts at least lol. On 12/6/2024 at 8:57 PM, ExplorerDude said: An additional body style / configuration (4-door) plus a possible high end Lincoln variant would add volume (if approved). Those would be nice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted December 9, 2024 Share Posted December 9, 2024 On 12/7/2024 at 10:21 AM, akirby said: No reason for a PHEV to use a public charger. That’s why they bought a PHEV - so they don’t have to worry about charging in public. The vast majority of public chargers are Level 2 so Corsair PHEV is perfectly fine to use them. There is very little need for PHEV to use DC charging (Level 3) because charging speed to directly related to the size of the battery pack. Adding DC charging to a PHEV is kind of a waste of money because they can't take advantage of the fast charging rate. The best analogy is people putting high performance brake on family sedans. Sure, you can do it but why? The car will never exceed the capability of the standard brakes so why add more cost and complexity of race car worthy brake pads and rotors on a car that doesn't need the stopping power? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted December 9, 2024 Share Posted December 9, 2024 13 minutes ago, bzcat said: The vast majority of public chargers are Level 2 so Corsair PHEV is perfectly fine to use them. There is very little need for PHEV to use DC charging (Level 3) because charging speed to directly related to the size of the battery pack. Adding DC charging to a PHEV is kind of a waste of money because they can't take advantage of the fast charging rate. The best analogy is people putting high performance brake on family sedans. Sure, you can do it but why? The car will never exceed the capability of the standard brakes so why add more cost and complexity of race car worthy brake pads and rotors on a car that doesn't need the stopping power? Not only is level 3 not needed, public charging on a PHEV isn’t really needed. You just keep driving on gas until you get home. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted December 9, 2024 Share Posted December 9, 2024 On 12/7/2024 at 6:50 AM, twintornados said: Looked at a Lincoln Corsair PHEV and it only has the J1772 charge port....am I missing something? Is CCS or NACS too much for a PHEV? Mazda CX-70/90 has the CCS port. No reason to have CCS since it can't fast charge. The NACS Port would be nice to have but Not a need at this point. Quick Refresher in EV charging ports Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted December 10, 2024 Share Posted December 10, 2024 I finally got around to the sales chart....some very healthy increases on there, but I think production/inventory issues were still present last year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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