akirby Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 10 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said: Agree-again just suggesting for the departments that have their notion about a 'cammer" vs pushrods, the 6.8/7.3 in a 150 might be a good competitor to Tahoe I doubt they’re making purchasing decisions based on turbo dohc vs pushrod engine. There is no added maintenance cost and the cost of an occasional turbo replacement is offset by fuel savings. And I would bet that the Expy is faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zgxtreme Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 On 1/23/2025 at 8:40 AM, akirby said: I doubt they’re making purchasing decisions based on turbo dohc vs pushrod engine. There is no added maintenance cost and the cost of an occasional turbo replacement is offset by fuel savings. And I would bet that the Expy is faster. There are government entities (mine included) who have stuck with Dodge for the 5.7 and now Tahoe for the 5.3 to avoid the turbo. I am not saying that is right but it is a reality. As for the new Expedition SSV... you still won't see much market traction as it is a competitor to the Tahoe SSV and not the PPV which the vast majority of law enforcement sales are. It's not even about the pursuit aspect, its simply the handling in an emergency response when you are pushing to shave seconds from your response time. If Ford were to refine the Performance options from the retail models and create a PPV version of the Expedition, then you would have some competition. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danglin Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 6 hours ago, zgxtreme said: There are government entities (mine included) who have stuck with Dodge for the 5.7 and now Tahoe for the 5.3 to avoid the turbo. I am not saying that is right but it is a reality. As for the new Expedition SSV... you still won't see much market traction as it is a competitor to the Tahoe SSV and not the PPV which the vast majority of law enforcement sales are. It's not even about the pursuit aspect, its simply the handling in an emergency response when you are pushing to shave seconds from your response time. If Ford were to refine the Performance options from the retail models and create a PPV version of the Expedition, then you would have some competition. Ford has definitely lost sales due to not having a V8 powered police vehicle. Mistake to not offer the V8 as an option in the F150 Pursuit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick73 Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 On 1/22/2025 at 8:15 PM, SoonerLS said: Given the ubiquity of the Explorer Police Interceptor, I don’t think any departments are scared of the complexity of the EcoBoosts or the Coyote. You’re probably correct, though danglin above raises a valid question. When comparing, we don’t actually know how many more Explorer Interceptors would have sold with other powertrains. It’s unknowable. Maybe Ford would have sold twice as many for all we know. I think Ford offers three Explorer Interceptor powertrains, and I’d love to see data on their respective volumes. That may shed some light, or not, given none are comparable to Hemi or Chevy 5.3 V8. For clarity, not saying Ford options are inferior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 6 hours ago, danglin said: Ford has definitely lost sales due to not having a V8 powered police vehicle. Mistake to not offer the V8 as an option in the F150 Pursuit. For what reason? V8 won’t have more power and maintenance is exactly the same. Only difference I see is potential turbo replacement which happens but I do t think it’s a widespread problem, and Coyote has its own problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danglin Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 (edited) 1 hour ago, akirby said: For what reason? V8 won’t have more power and maintenance is exactly the same. Only difference I see is potential turbo replacement which happens but I do t think it’s a widespread problem, and Coyote has its own problems. I do not know if Ecoboost motors have been troublesome for Police use, but there are Departments that do not want Turbo 6 Cylinders. I think they are missing an opportunity and could increase sales. Indiana State Police refuses to purchase turbo 6 cylinders, so they continue with Durango, even though they have had recent issues with the Hemi. They tested Tahoes, but decided against them due to higher cost, and Troopers complained about handling and speed. They won't even look at PIU or F150. Will see what happens when Dodge goes with hurricane motors in the next Durango. I know Ecoboost PIU easily outclasses all the other police vehicles in MSP testing. Wonder what Troopers would think if they got to test them out. Even F150 is Faster than Durango other than Handling and Top Speed... Edited February 28 by danglin 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 2 hours ago, danglin said: I do not know if Ecoboost motors have been troublesome for Police use, but there are Departments that do not want Turbo 6 Cylinders. I think they are missing an opportunity and could increase sales. Indiana State Police refuses to purchase turbo 6 cylinders, so they continue with Durango, even though they have had recent issues with the Hemi. They tested Tahoes, but decided against them due to higher cost, and Troopers complained about handling and speed. They won't even look at PIU or F150. Will see what happens when Dodge goes with hurricane motors in the next Durango. I know Ecoboost PIU easily outclasses all the other police vehicles in MSP testing. Wonder what Troopers would think if they got to test them out. Even F150 is Faster than Durango other than Handling and Top Speed... The other big advantage of smaller turbo six is when they idle for hours at accident scenes or whatever.. the smaller engine definitely uses less fuel as the v8 cylinder deactivation only works at cruising speeds.. That was the big selling point for Ecoboost to law enforcement agencies plus the pursuit rating of course.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherminator98 Posted March 1 Author Share Posted March 1 4 hours ago, danglin said: I do not know if Ecoboost motors have been troublesome for Police use, but there are Departments that do not want Turbo 6 Cylinders.... What it boils down to cost-they don't want to have to send their mechanics out for additional training or what not and I'm guessing some of it is ignorance. Its also part of the reason why Police depts kept using Crown Vics-they knew them inside out and didn't have to change anything with gear with them, so they saved money and used it some place else, not because the CVPI was such a good vehicle-it was good enough for the role it had. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danglin Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 11 hours ago, Sherminator98 said: What it boils down to cost-they don't want to have to send their mechanics out for additional training or what not and I'm guessing some of it is ignorance. Its also part of the reason why Police depts kept using Crown Vics-they knew them inside out and didn't have to change anything with gear with them, so they saved money and used it some place else, not because the CVPI was such a good vehicle-it was good enough for the role it had. I have a soft spot for the CVPI. That was the only vehicle I ever had when I was a Trooper. Yes, they were not the fastest, but they were tough, reliable, comfortable, and roomy. Plenty of storage space in that huge trunk! Wish Ford would have kept them up to date and put the 5.0 in them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherminator98 Posted March 1 Author Share Posted March 1 30 minutes ago, danglin said: I have a soft spot for the CVPI. That was the only vehicle I ever had when I was a Trooper. Yes, they were not the fastest, but they were tough, reliable, comfortable, and roomy. Plenty of storage space in that huge trunk! Wish Ford would have kept them up to date and put the 5.0 in them. But its also the only thing you known-People sometimes have an attachment to things that may have not been that great because that is the only thing they've experienced. It happens in anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 My city in central FL in the past 20 years, went from Impala, to FWD Explorers, to current RWD Explorers, to Tahoes. When the current generation Explorer's came out, they ordered a bunch with the 3.0L V6 TT, and they loved it. They have had no issues with it, but have switched to the Tahoes because they are substantially cheaper than the Explorer. (I've read the contracts). After Covid, it was easier and more available to purchase Tahoes, than Explorers. The decision is really based on 3 mechanics they have on staff, what THEY want, and then recommend to their boss, who recommends to the Chief, and then voted on by the commission as a consent agenda (meaning barely any conversation will take place-housekeeping we call it). They also have some unmarked F150s with the 3.5L EB, they have had no issues with those, and 2 of them are past their "prime". (this dept gets rid of them when they hit 100K) and still going strong with 150K+ miles on them. They also purchased 3 hybrid Mavericks for code enforcement. So I'm curious how those will weather. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danglin Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 1 hour ago, ANTAUS said: My city in central FL in the past 20 years, went from Impala, to FWD Explorers, to current RWD Explorers, to Tahoes. When the current generation Explorer's came out, they ordered a bunch with the 3.0L V6 TT, and they loved it. They have had no issues with it, but have switched to the Tahoes because they are substantially cheaper than the Explorer. (I've read the contracts). After Covid, it was easier and more available to purchase Tahoes, than Explorers. The decision is really based on 3 mechanics they have on staff, what THEY want, and then recommend to their boss, who recommends to the Chief, and then voted on by the commission as a consent agenda (meaning barely any conversation will take place-housekeeping we call it). They also have some unmarked F150s with the 3.5L EB, they have had no issues with those, and 2 of them are past their "prime". (this dept gets rid of them when they hit 100K) and still going strong with 150K+ miles on them. They also purchased 3 hybrid Mavericks for code enforcement. So I'm curious how those will weather. Crazy that Tahoes are cheaper than PIU's !! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 On 3/1/2025 at 2:45 PM, danglin said: Crazy that Tahoes are cheaper than PIU's !! I am told that is the case here in Mass as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherminator98 Posted March 3 Author Share Posted March 3 On 3/1/2025 at 2:45 PM, danglin said: Crazy that Tahoes are cheaper than PIU's !! I’d like to see the math on that. A Tahoe starts at $59k but an Explorer is only $39k. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTAUS Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 18 minutes ago, Sherminator98 said: I’d like to see the math on that. A Tahoe starts at $59k but an Explorer is only $39k. Remember these are government contract vehicles. All stripped and basic, going from Explorer to the Tahoe, was a $8K savings. BOF is cheaper to build, so no surprise there. Explorer only came at first with the 3.0L TT V6, I don't believe for police duty the 2.3L is/was available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 21 minutes ago, ANTAUS said: Remember these are government contract vehicles. All stripped and basic, going from Explorer to the Tahoe, was a $8K savings. BOF is cheaper to build, so no surprise there. Explorer only came at first with the 3.0L TT V6, I don't believe for police duty the 2.3L is/was available. More like Chevy was willing to take less profit to move Tahoes. Remember Chicago is (or was) close to capacity so Ford doesn’t need huge volume on PIUs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zgxtreme Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 On 2/28/2025 at 6:55 AM, danglin said: Ford has definitely lost sales due to not having a V8 powered police vehicle. Mistake to not offer the V8 as an option in the F150 Pursuit. Correct. Maybe not enough for it to be of concern but they definitely have as our city garage stated they just want to work on the simple stuff. to be honest, I personally kind of agree as the idea of a non-turbo V8 in a Suburban is enticing over the turbos in the Expedition Max we currently have. Will I probably get another Max, yes. But the tug of war still exist in my mind and I now it does with fleet managers as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rosadini Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 On 3/2/2025 at 9:39 PM, Bob Rosadini said: I am told that is the case here in Mass as well. Did some double checking with a LEO friend. Last year the properly equipped Explorer was less costly than Tahoe. This year under new state contract, Tahoe is a 6 grand premium. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 28 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said: Did some double checking with a LEO friend. Last year the properly equipped Explorer was less costly than Tahoe. This year under new state contract, Tahoe is a 6 grand premium. That sounds more accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zgxtreme Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 On 2/28/2025 at 5:39 PM, jpd80 said: The other big advantage of smaller turbo six is when they idle for hours at accident scenes or whatever.. the smaller engine definitely uses less fuel as the v8 cylinder deactivation only works at cruising speeds.. That was the big selling point for Ecoboost to law enforcement agencies plus the pursuit rating of course.. Obviously this is reflective of the Pentastar and not Ford's offerings but we had multiple issues with them (V6) from idling. This experiment sent us back to the Hemi in the Chargers and now Durangos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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