The Ford Mustang Mach-E Handily Outsold The Gas Mustang In 2024

[Sherminator98]

2 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

But we're seeing shifts here man, for years, arguably decades, it was all about cars getting bigger, more expensive, more powerful. While I believe that will still hold true for some segments in the future, we're kinda seeing the resurgence of smaller, more affordable, and sensible vehicles.  

 

There is lots of talk about cheaper cars, but IMO all they are talking about are 30-40K EVs that are more affordable, but not "cheap"...To be honest I think lots of talk about "affordable" cars is just because they can't offer low interest financing on vehicles that cost more. If rates go low enough again, those "cheap" cars will disappear. 

[Deanh]

wonder how ICE Mustang sales would have been with the exact same incentives of the Mach E............................

[Rick73]

2 hours ago, Deanh said:

wonder how ICE Mustang sales would have been with the exact same incentives of the Mach E............................

Between government tax credits and Ford cost subsidies, probably couldn’t build them fast enough. 😀

[Deanh]

On 1/7/2025 at 1:53 PM, Rick73 said:

Between government tax credits and Ford cost subsidies, probably couldn’t build them fast enough. 😀

exactly.....heres another parameter thats always missing from the conversation...how much did Ford lose per "E"....................the business model is NOT sustainable in my opinion, and the Headlines that paint the picture Electrics are doing well are like a Porn movie being edited to be PG13....theres a LOT left out of the full picture...

Edited January 9 by Deanh

[rmc523]

Supplier Issues Impacted Ford Mustang Sales In 2024

 

This article cites an Automotive News report that supplier issues affected Mustang sales.  Who knows if that's actually true or just an excuse.........anecdotal evidence, but my dealer has had a whole row of Mustangs for some time.

[morgan20]

5 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

Supplier Issues Impacted Ford Mustang Sales In 2024

 

This article cites an Automotive News report that supplier issues affected Mustang sales.  Who knows if that's actually true or just an excuse.........anecdotal evidence, but my dealer has had a whole row of Mustangs for some time.

 

Thanks for that article. One of the Ford big shots said that the company is happy with expanding the Mustang family

 

“Mustang more than ever is taking on different shape and forms for us. Having the Mach-E there is good for us and good for business.”

[Deanh]

3 hours ago, morgan20 said:

 

Thanks for that article. One of the Ford big shots said that the company is happy with expanding the Mustang family

 

“Mustang more than ever is taking on different shape and forms for us. Having the Mach-E there is good for us and good for business.”

rumors continue of a Mustang 4 door sedan with a V8.......

[Rick73]

Regarding higher interest rates to blame as suggested above:
 

Let’s hope interest rates don’t go back as low as during pandemic, when borrowing was intentionally made cheap to keep economy afloat by promoting spending IIRC.  That’s partly what led to vehicle price increases out of control.  As we return to more normal sustainable rates, unaffordability of expensive vehicles will indeed play a greater role in limiting their sales, as it should be.  Demand for cheaper cars is a return to normal, not an abnormal period when buyers could over-purchase aided by near-free money.  Auto manufacturers need to get onboard and face reality, and apparently many already are.  Besides, affordable vehicles are generally better for the environment, everything else being equal.  Two birds — which further eases pressure on electrification adoption rate.

[Biker16]

On 1/7/2025 at 2:44 PM, Deanh said:

wonder how ICE Mustang sales would have been with the exact same incentives of the Mach E............................

 Not much better. 

You can't compare a 2-door coupe to 5 5-door CUV. 

[Sherminator98]

58 minutes ago, Rick73 said:

Regarding higher interest rates to blame as suggested above:
 

Let’s hope interest rates don’t go back as low as during pandemic, when borrowing was intentionally made cheap to keep economy afloat by promoting spending IIRC.  That’s partly what led to vehicle price increases out of control.  As we return to more normal sustainable rates, unaffordability of expensive vehicles will indeed play a greater role in limiting their sales, as it should be.  Demand for cheaper cars is a return to normal, not an abnormal period when buyers could over-purchase aided by near-free money.  Auto manufacturers need to get onboard and face reality, and apparently many already are.  Besides, affordable vehicles are generally better for the environment, everything else being equal.  Two birds — which further eases pressure on electrification adoption rate.

 

All depends on what you consider affordable-there is lots of sticker shock when it comes to looking at new vehicles or other products, but people are still buying them and bitching about it, but I'm also assuming that if your still working, you should have gotten raises or Cost of living increases at the job you work at also. 

[jpd80]

Ford is honouring a promise to keep the Mustang coupe around for as long as buyers want it.

Of course, that commitment was made a few years back and sales are edging lower….

 

[akirby]

1 hour ago, Rick73 said:

Let’s hope interest rates don’t go back as low as during pandemic, when borrowing was intentionally made cheap to keep economy afloat by promoting spending IIRC.  That’s partly what led to vehicle price increases out of control.  

Hogwash.  Interest rates were low before the pandemic.  Prices were raised because shipping and manufacturing slowdowns limited production which naturally raised prices due to high demand and low supply.  Rising fuel prices thanks to Biden drove inflation even higher for everything.  Interest rates were raised to stave off inflation.

[Deanh]

3 hours ago, Biker16 said:

 Not much better. 

You can't compare a 2-door coupe to 5 5-door CUV. 

beg to differ...massive rebates WITH 0% PLUS the $7500 tax benefit. All three combined, along with $300 a month leases were on the E....as I stated...put the same on the ICEs for a direct comparison....nothing to do with doors...those rebates were directly responsible for the "e"s market shbnare...without them the sales would have been dismal and this converstaion wouldnt be happening...it would be more along "why arent BEVs selling? "

[Deanh]

2 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Ford is honouring a promise to keep the Mustang coupe around for as long as buyers want it.

Of course, that commitment was made a few years back and sales are edging lower….

 

sal;es werent helped by limited supply.....

[sullynd]

28 minutes ago, Deanh said:

beg to differ...massive rebates WITH 0% PLUS the $7500 tax benefit. 

Do you no longer sell Fords? The Mach-E has not been eligible for the Federal credit for some time. 
 

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/tax2023.shtml

[02MustangGT]

18 minutes ago, sullynd said:

Do you no longer sell Fords? The Mach-E has not been eligible for the Federal credit for some time. 
 

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/tax2023.shtml

To be fair, Ford was offering 0% financing plus $5000 on Mach-E’s to clear out inventory/increase sales.  If those incentives were applied to the ICE Mustang, sales would certainly increase.  In addition, costumers who lease the Mach-E can take advantage of the $7500 “discount” (leasing tax credit loophole).  

[Rick73]

4 hours ago, akirby said:

Hogwash.  Interest rates were low before the pandemic.  Prices were raised because shipping and manufacturing slowdowns limited production which naturally raised prices due to high demand and low supply.  Rising fuel prices thanks to Biden drove inflation even higher for everything.  Interest rates were raised to stave off inflation.

Look at historical interest rates for yourself.  They are a matter of fact, not opinion.  The “why” of lower rates touches on politics and I won’t get drawn into political discussions.  Anyway, the point I was trying to reply to in previous statement by Sherminator98 was that without extremely low interest rates, manufacturers wouldn’t have been able to increase prices so high and so quickly regardless of pandemic-induced shortages.  For example, there wouldn’t have been as much demand for $100,000 vehicles in the first place if not for unusually low interest rates lowering monthly payments.  It was a golden opportunity for manufacturers.  IMO if interest rates had not gone so low, manufacturers would have been forced to build lower-priced vehicles.

 

For clarity, my post regarded statements below by Sherminator98; and IMO rates already seem fairly low, so for them to go much lower would not be a good thing.
 

“To be honest I think lots of talk about "affordable" cars is just because they can't offer low interest financing on vehicles that cost more. If rates go low enough again, those "cheap" cars will disappear.”

[DeluxeStang]

5 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Ford is honouring a promise to keep the Mustang coupe around for as long as buyers want it.

Of course, that commitment was made a few years back and sales are edging lower….

 

Ford needs to reinvest in the mustang. The s650 is a great car, but it's also the kind of car where you say "60 grand for this, really?" whereas something like the c8 you say "70 grand, that's it?!" See the difference?

 

Despite selling for a much higher average price than the mustang, the c8 was only something like a thousand or a few thousand units behind it in sales volume, and it's because it's insane value for the money. The market is there, just give us more zing, more passion, more design, more of everything. It won't take mustang back up to selling 200k units a year, but it'll convince more people to drop 60 grand on one. 

[morgan20]

4 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

convince more people to drop 60 grand on one. 

 

The Dodge boys are doin' that with their new muscle car, Charger Daytona. They're askin' 60 grand for the R/T and 74 grand for the Scat Pack

 

[akirby]

1 hour ago, Rick73 said:

Look at historical interest rates for yourself.  They are a matter of fact, not opinion.  The “why” of lower rates touches on politics and I won’t get drawn into political discussions.  Anyway, the point I was trying to reply to in previous statement by Sherminator98 was that without extremely low interest rates, manufacturers wouldn’t have been able to increase prices so high and so quickly regardless of pandemic-induced shortages.  For example, there wouldn’t have been as much demand for $100,000 vehicles in the first place if not for unusually low interest rates lowering monthly payments.  It was a golden opportunity for manufacturers.  IMO if interest rates had not gone so low, manufacturers would have been forced to build lower-priced vehicles.

 

For clarity, my post regarded statements below by Sherminator98; and IMO rates already seem fairly low, so for them to go much lower would not be a good thing.
 

“To be honest I think lots of talk about "affordable" cars is just because they can't offer low interest financing on vehicles that cost more. If rates go low enough again, those "cheap" cars will disappear.”

Interest rates were between 4% and 5% from 2014 through 2021.  Only dropped to 3.5% briefly before shooting up to 8%.  They sold plenty of cheap cars in 2014.  Your theory is baseless.

[Sherminator98]

1 hour ago, Rick73 said:

Look at historical interest rates for yourself.  They are a matter of fact, not opinion.  The “why” of lower rates touches on politics and I won’t get drawn into political discussions.  Anyway, the point I was trying to reply to in previous statement by Sherminator98 was that without extremely low interest rates, manufacturers wouldn’t have been able to increase prices so high and so quickly regardless of pandemic-induced shortages.  For example, there wouldn’t have been as much demand for $100,000 vehicles in the first place if not for unusually low interest rates lowering monthly payments.  It was a golden opportunity for manufacturers.  IMO if interest rates had not gone so low, manufacturers would have been forced to build lower-priced vehicles.

For clarity, my post regarded statements below by Sherminator98; and IMO rates already seem fairly low, so for them to go much lower would not be a good thing.
 

“To be honest I think lots of talk about "affordable" cars is just because they can't offer low interest financing on vehicles that cost more. If rates go low enough again, those "cheap" cars will disappear.”

 

Backup a bit-If you have good/decent credit, you could get 0% financing on nearly any popular product for the past 15 years or so. 

 

If you didn't get zero percent, the average was about 2-3%...my Bronco is financed at 2.29%. My wife, who has a 800+ credit score could only get like 4.5% this past September for her Bronco Sport. Her two past Escape she got (2013 and 2017) both had zero percent financing on them. 

So lets do some math:

50K car loan with nothing down at 5% interest over 60 months is roughly $754.85 a month
At 2.5% it is $709.89

At 0% it is $666.67, so almost a $100 bucks a month savings, which is pretty significant. 

 

As for inflation:

I paid $47k for my Bronco, same trim (without a V6 now) is 50K, but the 2025 Big Bend (which removes more options like modular bumper and Higher end headlights) is now again at $47K, which is a bit surprising to me. 

 

According to the CPI calculator, as of November, 47K in May 2022 is now worth 50K.

 

The argument could be made that the Bronco was underpriced due to it selling with an ADM when it first launched, but even with rising pricing, outside of the dip in sales in 2023, it had its best selling year last year, with 138K units sold, which was 21K more then 2022. 

 

 

[rmc523]

13 hours ago, Deanh said:

beg to differ...massive rebates WITH 0% PLUS the $7500 tax benefit. All three combined, along with $300 a month leases were on the E....as I stated...put the same on the ICEs for a direct comparison....nothing to do with doors...those rebates were directly responsible for the "e"s market shbnare...without them the sales would have been dismal and this converstaion wouldnt be happening...it would be more along "why arent BEVs selling? "

 

13 hours ago, Deanh said:

sal;es werent helped by limited supply.....

 

I absolutely agree Mustang (coupe/vert) sales would've been better with more incentives.

 

So your comment backs up reports that supply was somewhat of an issue...

[Rick73]

14 hours ago, akirby said:

Interest rates were between 4% and 5% from 2014 through 2021.  Only dropped to 3.5% briefly before shooting up to 8%.  They sold plenty of cheap cars in 2014.  Your theory is baseless.

We must be discussing different subjects altogether.  I’m only going by what I’ve read from numerous sources and most agree that interest rates were lowered to promote spending of big ticket items.  Not only did lower interest affect autos prices, it had an even worse effect on RV industry that finances for 15 to 20 years.  Prices went up in part because monthly payments were suddenly much lower, and now sales are struggling big time.  So many buyers who paid inflated prices are now upside down given prices are correcting.  Granted, being upside down on RV loans is nothing new.  Anyway, when I do a search, I still get many hits supporting this point of view.  I’ll leave it at that since neither of us are going to change our minds.

 

[akirby]

1 hour ago, Rick73 said:

We must be discussing different subjects altogether.  I’m only going by what I’ve read from numerous sources and most agree that interest rates were lowered to promote spending of big ticket items.  Not only did lower interest affect autos prices, it had an even worse effect on RV industry that finances for 15 to 20 years.  Prices went up in part because monthly payments were suddenly much lower, and now sales are struggling big time.  So many buyers who paid inflated prices are now upside down given prices are correcting.  Granted, being upside down on RV loans is nothing new.  Anyway, when I do a search, I still get many hits supporting this point of view.  I’ll leave it at that since neither of us are going to change our minds.

 

Interest rates can spur sales or deter sales but they don’t set prices.  Price increases were due to inflation and supply/demand.

[tbone]

On 1/9/2025 at 2:44 PM, Rick73 said:

Regarding higher interest rates to blame as suggested above:
 

Let’s hope interest rates don’t go back as low as during pandemic, when borrowing was intentionally made cheap to keep economy afloat by promoting spending IIRC.  That’s partly what led to vehicle price increases out of control.  As we return to more normal sustainable rates, unaffordability of expensive vehicles will indeed play a greater role in limiting their sales, as it should be.  Demand for cheaper cars is a return to normal, not an abnormal period when buyers could over-purchase aided by near-free money.  Auto manufacturers need to get onboard and face reality, and apparently many already are.  Besides, affordable vehicles are generally better for the environment, everything else being equal.  Two birds — which further eases pressure on electrification adoption rate.

 

On 1/9/2025 at 4:04 PM, akirby said:

Hogwash.  Interest rates were low before the pandemic.  Prices were raised because shipping and manufacturing slowdowns limited production which naturally raised prices due to high demand and low supply.  Rising fuel prices thanks to Biden drove inflation even higher for everything.  Interest rates were raised to stave off inflation.

 

 

2 hours ago, Rick73 said:

We must be discussing different subjects altogether.  I’m only going by what I’ve read from numerous sources and most agree that interest rates were lowered to promote spending of big ticket items.  Not only did lower interest affect autos prices, it had an even worse effect on RV industry that finances for 15 to 20 years.  Prices went up in part because monthly payments were suddenly much lower, and now sales are struggling big time.  So many buyers who paid inflated prices are now upside down given prices are correcting.  Granted, being upside down on RV loans is nothing new.  Anyway, when I do a search, I still get many hits supporting this point of view.  I’ll leave it at that since neither of us are going to change our minds.

 

Here’s what the data showed from January 2017 to present and I’ve included the two government stimulus packages for reference.   I don’t think your position is supported by this info:  

 

Base price of an F150 beginning in 2017:

$27,110, 27,705, 28,155, 28,745, 26,882, 31,520, 34,585, 36,570

 

Interest rates on 60-month new car loans in the United States from February 2017 to November 2024:

4.35%, 4.51%, 4.77%, 4.56%, 4.19%, 3.94%, 6.18%, 7.75%, Nov. Nov 2024 7.57%

 

The Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security Act,[b][1] also known as the CARES Act,[2] is a $2.2 trillion economic stimulus bill passed by the 116th U.S. Congress and signed into law by President Donald Trump on March 27, 2020.

 

American Rescue Plan Act of 2021, also called the COVID-19 Stimulus Package or American Rescue Plan, is a US$1.9 trillioneconomic stimulus bill passed by the 117th United States Congress and signed into law by President Joe Biden on March 11, 2021

Edited January 10 by tbone
Corrected date range for interest rates.