Sherminator98 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 https://www.motor1.com/news/747639/ford-wants--to-be-porsche-of-off-road/ Quote At the 2025 Detroit Auto Show, the head honcho told Automotive News he wants to turn Ford into the "No. 1 undisputed off-road brand in the world." He even went so far as to say the Dearborn automaker aspires to be the "Porsche of off-road." The objective is to grow Tremor, Bronco, and Raptor into stronger brands so that off-roaders can account for more than the 20 percent share registered in Ford's total sales last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 Off roaders and those who like to pretend are passionate and spend big bucks. It’s a no brainer. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgan20 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 (edited) 28 minutes ago, akirby said: Off roaders and those who like to pretend are passionate and spend big bucks. It’s a no brainer. Yea, judging by the popularity of the Bronco Mountain course at Chicago Auto Show, a lot of people fit into those categories. If Ford plays its cards right, the head honcho's goal of making it the No. 1 undisputed off-road brand in the world isn't unrealistic at all Edited January 19 by morgan20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-dubz Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 I’d like to see more of this as well. I’d also like to see trims like the rattler on the f150 go other models, though maybe pick a different name. This would give people a more affordable off-road model to choose from. low end - rattler mid - tremor high end - raptor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 50 minutes ago, T-dubz said: I’d like to see more of this as well. I’d also like to see trims like the rattler on the f150 go other models, though maybe pick a different name. This would give people a more affordable off-road model to choose from. low end - rattler mid - tremor high end - raptor I guess Ford is scrapping Timberline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullynd Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 25 minutes ago, twintornados said: I guess Ford is scrapping Timberline Seeing as how both the Explorer and Expedition switched to Tremor I’d say that was pretty self evident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeluxeStang Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 (edited) Hear me out, how cool would it be if Ford revived the RS 200 for rally racing, one of the most storied forms of off-road Motorsports? They patented the rs 200, made that concept, and said they wanted to make more RS cars. It just seems like a no brainer, you could offer road spec versions of the car as well as lifted, more rugged versions. Build it at flat rock. That would be a "Whoa" moment for Ford just like the gt and GTD. It makes perfect sense. I don't know if they could run something like this in WRC, or if it would have to be something else, but there's potential here. Edited January 19 by DeluxeStang 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 We know you like the RS200 sketch lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeluxeStang Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 2 hours ago, rmc523 said: We know you like the RS200 sketch lol. How could you not lol? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZanatWork Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 23 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said: How could you not lol? Like most concept renders, I look at the lack of clearance and the air dam, and...well, give me the original. Please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeluxeStang Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 2 minutes ago, ZanatWork said: Like most concept renders, I look at the lack of clearance and the air dam, and...well, give me the original. Please. Likes an official Ford project. But I get ya. Who's to say they couldn't make a jacked up version for off-roading? It just seems like one of the coolest vehicles they could bring back if they wanted to lean into their off-road heritage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 (edited) The strategy makes sense since those are the products that Ford can still wring profits from. It's hopeless for Ford to try to compete with Yaris, Corolla, Prius, RAV4, Highlander, Siena, or Camry. But it can still quite effectively compete with Tundra, Hilux, Tacoma, 4Runner, Prado etc. Also, I believe Farley senses weakness with Jeep and Land Rover brands as their owners are distracted. He wants to establish Ford as the alternative go-to brand globally for rugged vehicles before Haval gets there first. Ford essentially has 4 core products/families and so any products that are based on these platforms and are associated it with it by marketing is in Farley's mind "not boring" and will be safe. F-Series sub-brand: F-150, Raptor, Lightning, Super Duty, Expedition, Navigator Transit sub-brand: Transit, Transit Custom, Transit Connect, Transit Courier (and their Tourneo twins) Mustang subbrand: Mustang coupe, Mustang convertible, GTD, Mach E, supposed sedan, 4x4 coupe (Mach 4?) Ranger family: Ranger, Raptor, Everest, Bronco, Dadao, Yuhu, Baodian Everything else must have some sort of tie in with the 4 core products or they are in the "boring camp" and likely to be dropped: Explorer ICE/Aviator: Ford has no plans to replace it (and the EV replacement is already cancelled) Edge/Nautilus: Will is still be around if Ford ends up reducing its line up in China like it did elsewhere? Escape/Corsair: Boring! Equator/Equator Sport: see Edge/Nautilus Explorer EV/Capri: DOA Mondeo/Zephyr: Who really thinks there is a future here? Focus: Already sentenced to death Fiesta: RIP E-Series: Dinosaurs survived and became birds... E-series may sprout wings and fly one day 😂 Puma: Saved because it shares platform with Transit Courier Bronco Sport: Saved by riding Bronco coattails Maverick: Saved by approximation/association with Bronco Sport I don't know how Farley plans to market the upcoming low-cost EV platform and the low-cost compact ICE from India but chances are they will have some sort of tie in with the Core 4. Edited January 20 by bzcat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherminator98 Posted January 20 Author Share Posted January 20 21 minutes ago, bzcat said: The strategy makes sense since those are the products that Ford can still wring profits from. It's hopeless for Ford to try to compete with Yaris, Corolla, Prius, RAV4, Highlander, Siena, or Camry. But it can still quite effectively compete with Tundra, Hilux, Tacoma, 4Runner, Prado etc. Also, I believe Farley senses weakness with Jeep and Land Rover brands as their owners are distracted. He wants to establish Ford as the alternative go-to brand globally for rugged vehicles before Haval gets there first. Ford essentially has 4 core products/families and so any products that are based on these platforms and are associated it with it by marketing is in Farley's mind "not boring" and will be safe. F-Series sub-brand: F-150, Raptor, Lightning, Super Duty, Expedition, Navigator Transit sub-brand: Transit, Transit Custom, Transit Connect, Transit Courier (and their Tourneo twins) Mustang subbrand: Mustang coupe, Mustang convertible, GTD, Mach E, supposed sedan, 4x4 coupe (Mach 4?) Ranger family: Ranger, Raptor, Everest, Bronco, Dadao, Yuhu, Baodian Everything else must have some sort of tie in with the 4 core products or they are in the "boring camp" and likely to be dropped: Explorer ICE/Aviator: Ford has no plans to replace it (and the EV replacement is already cancelled) Edge/Nautilus: Will is still be around if Ford ends up reducing its line up in China like it did elsewhere? Escape/Corsair: Boring! Equator/Equator Sport: see Edge/Nautilus Explorer EV/Capri: DOA Mondeo/Zephyr: Who really thinks there is a future here? Focus: Already sentenced to death Fiesta: RIP E-Series: Dinosaurs survived and became birds... E-series may sprout wings and fly one day 😂 Puma: Saved because it shares platform with Transit Courier Bronco Sport: Saved by riding Bronco coattails Maverick: Saved by approximation/association with Bronco Sport I don't know how Farley plans to market the upcoming low-cost EV platform and the low-cost compact ICE from India but chances are they will have some sort of tie in with the Core 4. I'd say the Explorer sticks around in some form...it been its best name plate for the past 30 years and generally has a good reputation The low cost EV (Pickup and Crossover) I'm guessing get roped into Bronco family, which is more important for the NA market then the Ranger. I'd also assume the low cost EV will replace the Mach E at some point and maybe the coupe Mustang when it can't be an ICE product anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeluxeStang Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 3 minutes ago, Sherminator98 said: I'd say the Explorer sticks around in some form...it been its best name plate for the past 30 years and generally has a good reputation The low cost EV (Pickup and Crossover) I'm guessing get roped into Bronco family, which is more important for the NA market then the Ranger. I'd also assume the low cost EV will replace the Mach E at some point and maybe the coupe Mustang when it can't be an ICE product anymore. I like this idea of the affordable EV truck having some sort of bronco tie in. But it will all come down to how it looks. The Ford three row was meant to be called explorer, and ended up ditching that because it apparently looked like a wedge on wheels. Ford may have found a way to make boxy styling work with their areo requirements, but that's a big if. I have this feeling these affordable EVs will be very radical looking, and won't really look like other Ford models. If that's the case, I don't see it being able to support the bronco name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 1 hour ago, bzcat said: The strategy makes sense since those are the products that Ford can still wring profits from. It's hopeless for Ford to try to compete with Yaris, Corolla, Prius, RAV4, Highlander, Siena, or Camry. But it can still quite effectively compete with Tundra, Hilux, Tacoma, 4Runner, Prado etc. Also, I believe Farley senses weakness with Jeep and Land Rover brands as their owners are distracted. He wants to establish Ford as the alternative go-to brand globally for rugged vehicles before Haval gets there first. Ford essentially has 4 core products/families and so any products that are based on these platforms and are associated it with it by marketing is in Farley's mind "not boring" and will be safe. F-Series sub-brand: F-150, Raptor, Lightning, Super Duty, Expedition, Navigator Transit sub-brand: Transit, Transit Custom, Transit Connect, Transit Courier (and their Tourneo twins) Mustang subbrand: Mustang coupe, Mustang convertible, GTD, Mach E, supposed sedan, 4x4 coupe (Mach 4?) Ranger family: Ranger, Raptor, Everest, Bronco, Dadao, Yuhu, Baodian Everything else must have some sort of tie in with the 4 core products or they are in the "boring camp" and likely to be dropped: Explorer ICE/Aviator: Ford has no plans to replace it (and the EV replacement is already cancelled) Edge/Nautilus: Will is still be around if Ford ends up reducing its line up in China like it did elsewhere? Escape/Corsair: Boring! Equator/Equator Sport: see Edge/Nautilus Explorer EV/Capri: DOA Mondeo/Zephyr: Who really thinks there is a future here? Focus: Already sentenced to death Fiesta: RIP E-Series: Dinosaurs survived and became birds... E-series may sprout wings and fly one day 😂 Puma: Saved because it shares platform with Transit Courier Bronco Sport: Saved by riding Bronco coattails Maverick: Saved by approximation/association with Bronco Sport I don't know how Farley plans to market the upcoming low-cost EV platform and the low-cost compact ICE from India but chances are they will have some sort of tie in with the Core 4. I think most current C2-based products get a reprieve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherminator98 Posted January 20 Author Share Posted January 20 2 hours ago, DeluxeStang said: I like this idea of the affordable EV truck having some sort of bronco tie in. But it will all come down to how it looks. The Ford three row was meant to be called explorer, and ended up ditching that because it apparently looked like a wedge on wheels. Ford may have found a way to make boxy styling work with their areo requirements, but that's a big if. I have this feeling these affordable EVs will be very radical looking, and won't really look like other Ford models. If that's the case, I don't see it being able to support the bronco name. IMO I think lots of information about the 3 row EV has been conflated with information about other products from reading in-between the lines with the cadence of other products like the Explorer. That is also why I kind wonder about the CE1 program too-its being reported that it is going to be a pickup between the Ranger and Maverick, but we already have a larger pickup in the form of T3 and I don't see much sense in that unless its some sort of Bronco affiliated product, given the market acceptance of EVs currently. Also I don't think Louisville is going to get an EV product either and the battery plant is for HEV/EREV Super Duties for the other plant near there. My bet is that BOC gets EV products for the time being and Louisville gets ICE/hybrid products that replace or are in addition to the Escape/Corsair being built there. Hopefully we hear something about Ford's path Forward by Memorial Day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehaase Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 I have felt for awhile that Ford just needs F Series/Expedition, Ranger/Bronco, Maverick/Bronco Sport, Transit family, TE1, and CE1, and everything else including Mustang and Lincoln is expendable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texasota Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 4 hours ago, bzcat said: Escape/Corsair: Boring! Take that back! You are breaking my heart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 3 hours ago, rmc523 said: I think most current C2-based products get a reprieve. I wouldn't say most. Some... sure. These are the C2-based products: Focus Escape/Kuga/Corsair Mondeo/Zephyr Edge/Nautilus Maverick/Bronco Sport One one C2 adjacent product: Equator/Equator Sport I grouped Maverick and Bronco Sport together because their fate are clearly tied together as they depend on each other to keep Hermosilo volume up like Corsair with inevitably tied with Escape. You can't really have one without the other. So looking at this C2 portfolio and thinking about Ford's off-road/SUV performance focus and Farley's "no boring car" edict, make your pick which one will get investment for another generation... I know which ones I won't bet on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 On 1/19/2025 at 3:18 PM, T-dubz said: I’d like to see more of this as well. I’d also like to see trims like the rattler on the f150 go other models, though maybe pick a different name. This would give people a more affordable off-road model to choose from. low end - rattler mid - tremor high end - raptor Agreed on the low end of the spectrum, Rattler is not a great name. They should come up with something better than that. 9 hours ago, Sherminator98 said: I'd say the Explorer sticks around in some form...it been its best name plate for the past 30 years and generally has a good reputation for sure, it would be foolish to destroy that brand recognition. There’s nothing wrong with the CD6 platform, so it wouldn’t be that difficult to improve on it and create the next gen based on it. 8 hours ago, rmc523 said: I think most current C2-based products get a reprieve. As do I, otherwise they really won’t have anything to sell. In any of these cases, they just can’t take half-assed approaches to their replacements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeluxeStang Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 7 hours ago, Sherminator98 said: IMO I think lots of information about the 3 row EV has been conflated with information about other products from reading in-between the lines with the cadence of other products like the Explorer. That is also why I kind wonder about the CE1 program too-its being reported that it is going to be a pickup between the Ranger and Maverick, but we already have a larger pickup in the form of T3 and I don't see much sense in that unless its some sort of Bronco affiliated product, given the market acceptance of EVs currently. Also I don't think Louisville is going to get an EV product either and the battery plant is for HEV/EREV Super Duties for the other plant near there. My bet is that BOC gets EV products for the time being and Louisville gets ICE/hybrid products that replace or are in addition to the Escape/Corsair being built there. Hopefully we hear something about Ford's path Forward by Memorial Day It's confusing because the maverick was a compact truck now internally some view it as a midsized truck, it's all over the place. I personally believe if Ford's trying to make each offering its own thing, a cab over electric truck might be worth considering. I could see how something with a ranger sized cab, an F-150 sized bed, but maverick exterior dimensions would be really appealing to fleet buyers, and casual consumers who wanted a super practical truck. But stylistically, that might be pushing it too far, we'll see. I believe Ford said they would discuss more details about these EVs in early '25 so we should be getting more details any day now. Watch them be like "Yeah so we're making affordable EVs" and that's their idea of discussing their plans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 15 hours ago, Sherminator98 said: IMO I think lots of information about the 3 row EV has been conflated with information about other products from reading in-between the lines with the cadence of other products like the Explorer. That is also why I kind wonder about the CE1 program too-its being reported that it is going to be a pickup between the Ranger and Maverick, but we already have a larger pickup in the form of T3 and I don't see much sense in that unless its some sort of Bronco affiliated product, given the market acceptance of EVs currently. Also I don't think Louisville is going to get an EV product either and the battery plant is for HEV/EREV Super Duties for the other plant near there. My bet is that BOC gets EV products for the time being and Louisville gets ICE/hybrid products that replace or are in addition to the Escape/Corsair being built there. Hopefully we hear something about Ford's path Forward by Memorial Day I think depending on how they've scaled back the battery factory, they'll probably have to figure out volume for that factory, meaning Louisville may get some sort of EV product to keep battery production up, no? 14 hours ago, bzcat said: I wouldn't say most. Some... sure. These are the C2-based products: Focus Escape/Kuga/Corsair Mondeo/Zephyr Edge/Nautilus Maverick/Bronco Sport One one C2 adjacent product: Equator/Equator Sport I grouped Maverick and Bronco Sport together because their fate are clearly tied together as they depend on each other to keep Hermosilo volume up like Corsair with inevitably tied with Escape. You can't really have one without the other. So looking at this C2 portfolio and thinking about Ford's off-road/SUV performance focus and Farley's "no boring car" edict, make your pick which one will get investment for another generation... I know which ones I won't bet on. Except if you already have a platform, the cost of adding additional top hats is lower, meaning ROI level is lower. I'll still stand by my opinion that continually dropping products is not good. Also, instead of dropping products, why not making them not "boring" instead? 7 hours ago, DeluxeStang said: It's confusing because the maverick was a compact truck now internally some view it as a midsized truck, it's all over the place. I personally believe if Ford's trying to make each offering its own thing, a cab over electric truck might be worth considering. I could see how something with a ranger sized cab, an F-150 sized bed, but maverick exterior dimensions would be really appealing to fleet buyers, and casual consumers who wanted a super practical truck. But stylistically, that might be pushing it too far, we'll see. I believe Ford said they would discuss more details about these EVs in early '25 so we should be getting more details any day now. Watch them be like "Yeah so we're making affordable EVs" and that's their idea of discussing their plans. I'm thinking things there are getting confused with interior volume......for instance, Ranger and Maverick interior volume is very similar, but on the outside, Ranger is larger. So I think we'll get something closer dimensionally outside to a compact Maverick with a larger "midsize" interior.......whereas T3 sounded close to F-150 size with larger interior room (with rumors of room for some sort of 3rd row even). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeluxeStang Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 (edited) 5 hours ago, rmc523 said: Except if you already have a platform, the cost of adding additional top hats is lower, meaning ROI level is lower. I'll still stand by my opinion that continually dropping products is not good. Also, instead of dropping products, why not making them not "boring" instead? I agree strongly with your points here. I firmly believe Ford should go back to offering a wider portfolio of products, and just reimagine some of those offerings to make them more aspirational. I see no reason why Ford can't reimagine the escape as a sexier road going performance crossover for instance. Edited January 21 by DeluxeStang 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzach Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 1 hour ago, DeluxeStang said: I agree strongly with your points here. I firmly believe Ford should go back to offering a wider portfolio of products, and just reimagine some of those offerings to make them more aspirational. I see no reason why Ford can't reimagine the escape as a sexier road going performance crossover for instance. I totally agree. They tried to do two things with Escape, 1. contrast it with the boxy Bronco Sport and 2. have it replace the old Escape and be a sedan alternative. I don't necessarily think that was a mistake but the execution was horrible. Instead of the rounded boring styling of the current Escape give it more angular sporty lines, sort of like a Range Rover Evoque. Not sure who said it but the quote went "You can sell a sporty car to someone who doesn't care about styling but you can't sell a boring car to someone who who does". Any segment can be styled sporty or "cool". 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 44 minutes ago, tzach said: I totally agree. They tried to do two things with Escape, 1. contrast it with the boxy Bronco Sport and 2. have it replace the old Escape and be a sedan alternative. I don't necessarily think that was a mistake but the execution was horrible. Instead of the rounded boring styling of the current Escape give it more angular sporty lines, sort of like a Range Rover Evoque. Not sure who said it but the quote went "You can sell a sporty car to someone who doesn't care about styling but you can't sell a boring car to someone who who does". Any segment can be styled sporty or "cool". I think they were trying to capture lost Focus buyers and still planning on a lot of fleet sales. I think it should mimic Explorer styling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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