Unique Ford Bronco Sport for China spied?

[jpd80]

4 hours ago, bzcat said:

 

Not a lot of clue but it will be a real kick in the pants if China got the PHEV or EREV Bronco and we don't... Bronco really needs a boost in MPG (or get much wider/longer) or it will start to cost Ford a lot in CAFE penalty. I am not optimistic that the 2 door will stick around beyond 2026 or 2027 unless the entire model range switches to hybrid or PHEV.

So what’s your thoughts on the Chinese Bronco vehicle, maybe Equator or Equator Sport based?

Thinking it’s a localised platform and probably suits better for costs and parts supply..

[Sherminator98]

9 hours ago, bzcat said:

Not a lot of clue but it will be a real kick in the pants if China got the PHEV or EREV Bronco and we don't... Bronco really needs a boost in MPG (or get much wider/longer) or it will start to cost Ford a lot in CAFE penalty. I am not optimistic that the 2 door will stick around beyond 2026 or 2027 unless the entire model range switches to hybrid or PHEV.

 

Ford sure seems adamant about not having an P/HEV Ranger or Bronco sold in the US going by peoples' comments over the past few years. Maybe they are going to tackle this some other way? 

 

But then again Ford's plan has changed quite a few times in the past 24 months and we still have no idea what their path forward is going to be going forward even though they would be providing guidance in the Spring...and its 40 days from summer. 

[jpd80]

On 5/11/2025 at 12:51 PM, Sherminator98 said:

 

Ford sure seems adamant about not having an P/HEV Ranger or Bronco sold in the US going by peoples' comments over the past few years. Maybe they are going to tackle this some other way? 

Yes, the skunkworks CE1 BEV pickup coming in 2926

 

On 5/11/2025 at 12:51 PM, Sherminator98 said:

But then again Ford's plan has changed quite a few times in the past 24 months and we still have no idea what their path forward is going to be going forward even though they would be providing guidance in the Spring...and its 40 days from summer. 

Roller coaster ride at the moment, they’re praying that stability returns soon.

Once those external forces calm, we might see another new plan…

[rmc523]

On 5/10/2025 at 10:51 PM, Sherminator98 said:

 

Ford sure seems adamant about not having an P/HEV Ranger or Bronco sold in the US going by peoples' comments over the past few years. Maybe they are going to tackle this some other way? 

 

But then again Ford's plan has changed quite a few times in the past 24 months and we still have no idea what their path forward is going to be going forward even though they would be providing guidance in the Spring...and its 40 days from summer. 

 

I mean they've also said all models will be electrified soon, so they'll have to do something.  Taking advantage of tech they already have ROW and in-house (Powerboost) would seemingly be the easiest route, IMO.

 

5 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Yes, the skunkworks CE1 BEV pickup coming in 2926

 

Man, Ford's REALLY planning ahead now eh?  And talk about product launch delays....

[bzcat]

On 5/10/2025 at 2:57 PM, jpd80 said:

So what’s your thoughts on the Chinese Bronco vehicle, maybe Equator or Equator Sport based?

Thinking it’s a localised platform and probably suits better for costs and parts supply..

 

Well, I think it depends... 

 

Equator, and Equator Sport are Jiangling Ford products. So they are on the local platform that utilized Mitsubishi 4G engine and off the shelve DCT. 

 

Explorer, Edge, Mach E, and Escape are Chang'an Ford products and they all use Ford platform, engine and transmission. 

 

If Chinese Bronco Sport is supposed to replace Escape, it should be a Chang'an Ford which implies it will be C2. But there is too much unknown to make a guess. We'll just have to wait.

 

If Chinese Bronco Sport is a Jiangling Ford product, then you really have to wonder what will happen with the Chang'an JV. 

 

 

 

 

[bzcat]

6 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Yes, the skunkworks CE1 BEV pickup coming in 2926

 

 

CAFE target is set by nameplate. CE1 BEV won't help with Bronco's target. 

 

Bronco's CAFE target based is the average footprint of Bronco. And that number is used to multiply by the sales volume towards Ford's CAFE. This is why Ford keeps pushing Bronco editions that are wider.

 

[rmc523]

37 minutes ago, bzcat said:

 

CAFE target is set by nameplate. CE1 BEV won't help with Bronco's target. 

 

Bronco's CAFE target based is the average footprint of Bronco. And that number is used to multiply by the sales volume towards Ford's CAFE. This is why Ford keeps pushing Bronco editions that are wider.

 

 

Isn't the name....Corporate Average Fuel Economy.....i.e. across the company's product portfolio?

[jpd80]

4 hours ago, bzcat said:

 

CAFE target is set by nameplate. CE1 BEV won't help with Bronco's target. 

 

Bronco's CAFE target based is the average footprint of Bronco. And that number is used to multiply by the sales volume towards Ford's CAFE. This is why Ford keeps pushing Bronco editions that are wider.

 

Sorry, not challenging your comments on CAFE determination 

I was responding to why no PHEV Ranger,

the poster also attached Bronco Sport to that enquiry.

Ford can still use BEV truck offset with utilities being classed as trucks but agree, they probably need some form of electrified Bronco Sport to fully satisfy CAFE future targets

Edited May 12 by jpd80

[bzcat]

7 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

Isn't the name....Corporate Average Fuel Economy.....i.e. across the company's product portfolio?

 

CAFE is across the company's product but CAFE target is model specific.

 

The current CAFE regulation is a 2-part process. First, each nameplate model has a CAFE target based on footprint. Second, the CAFE result is compared to CAFE target to determine compliance. So car companies can game both the CAFE target and the CAFE result depending on which is easier, or both.

 

They can lower the CAFE target by making longer and wider vehicles and changing cars to classify them as "trucks" (e.g. Impreza --> Crosstrek). 

 

They can boost the CAFE result by changing the name plate (e.g. fold RAV4 Prime into RAV4) or take advantage of tech bonus (e.g. implement engine start/stop, PHEV, EV etc)

 

CE1 pickup will help Ford's CAFE result but it does very little for Bronco's CAFE target. Remember, the goal is to make the target as low as possible and make the result as high as possible.

 

In practice, since the current CAFE rules were implemented, car companies has found it is much easier to make the target lower than bother with making the results higher so that's why all the small cars have disappeared, and every vehicle is getting bigger and wider even if no one asked for it. 

 

Edited May 13 by bzcat

[jpd80]

15 hours ago, rmc523 said:

Man, Ford's REALLY planning ahead now eh?  And talk about product launch delays....

I’m either prophetic or typing on my phone, enjoy the laugh, I did.

Edited May 13 by jpd80

[rmc523]

8 hours ago, jpd80 said:

I’m either prophetic or typing on my phone, enjoy the laugh, I did.

 

Eh, with Ford's product cadence of late, that's likely the real launch date anyway lol.

[jpd80]

18 hours ago, bzcat said:

 

CAFE is across the company's product but CAFE target is model specific.

 

The current CAFE regulation is a 2-part process. First, each nameplate model has a CAFE target based on footprint. Second, the CAFE result is compared to CAFE target to determine compliance. So car companies can game both the CAFE target and the CAFE result depending on which is easier, or both.

 

They can lower the CAFE target by making longer and wider vehicles and changing cars to classify them as "trucks" (e.g. Impreza --> Crosstrek). 

 

They can boost the CAFE result by changing the name plate (e.g. fold RAV4 Prime into RAV4) or take advantage of tech bonus (e.g. implement engine start/stop, PHEV, EV etc)

 

CE1 pickup will help Ford's CAFE result but it does very little for Bronco's CAFE target. Remember, the goal is to make the target as low as possible and make the result as high as possible.

 

In practice, since the current CAFE rules were implemented, car companies has found it is much easier to make the target lower than bother with making the results higher so that's why all the small cars have disappeared, and every vehicle is getting bigger and wider even if no one asked for it. 

 

I get what you’re saying and while Bronco’s specified CAFE target mpg may not be an issue right now,

the numbers increase each year and could /will become problematic to the combined fleet tally for Ford.

Not saying this is so and I don’t have any insider knowledge to support this but one way around the CAFE

problem would be to name the first two CE1 BEVs Ranger and Bronco.

 

Edited May 13 by jpd80

[AM222]

On 5/13/2025 at 12:24 AM, bzcat said:

 

Well, I think it depends... 

 

Equator, and Equator Sport are Jiangling Ford products. So they are on the local platform that utilized Mitsubishi 4G engine and off the shelve DCT. 

 

The Equator Sport aka new Ford Territory does not use an old Mitsubishi engine. Completely different. The JX4G15 JMC-Ford engine just contains "4G15" as part of its engine code/ name so people automatically think it's a Mitsubishi engine. The JMC-Ford engine was originally developed with AVL, an Austrian company. 

Here's an early version of the JX4G15 engine used by the JMC-Ford joint-venture compact SUV, the Yusheng S330, which later evolved into the first gen CN Ford Territory.
Bore & stroke: 79mm × 76mm

Uses a timing chain. The exhaust is on the firewall side like modern Ford & MZR engines.

4G15T engine of Mitsubishi.
Bore and stroke: 75.5mm x 82mm

Uses a timing belt. Exhaust is on the radiator side.

Edited May 27 by AM222

[bzcat]

Interesting info. So it was a clean sheet design? That really makes no sense since Ford already has a 1.5T I4 that meet Euro VI emission. 

[jpd80]

8 hours ago, bzcat said:

Interesting info. So it was a clean sheet design? That really makes no sense since Ford already has a 1.5T I4 that meet Euro VI emission. 

Makes me wonder if Ford moved  the tooling for the Euro 1.5 I-4 Duratec to China,

would kinda make sense if the former Euro Ecoboost was localised with Chinese parts that go into a Chinese Ecoboost…

 

Maybe I’m building a house of cards, just because I want to believe doesn’t make it so.

[Motorpsychology]

6 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Makes me wonder if Ford moved  the tooling for the Euro 1.5 I-4 Duratec to China,plagued that enginwould kinda make sense if the former Euro Ecoboost was localised with Chinese parts that go into a Chinese Ecoboost…

 

Maybe I’m building a house of cards, just because I want to believe doesn’t make it so.

Maybe Changan already was producing the 1.5 I4 Duratec. My 2018 Escape had a label on the block that said "Changan." This was at the height of the coolant intrusion problem that plagued 2016-18 engines, mostly from Valencia and Cleveland. Never had a problem with mine, but several people did, having to replace with a short or long block during Covid, and costing thousands if the warranty had expired.

[bzcat]

Chang'an produce I4 Duratec in China. Ford used the 1.5EB I4 on several models after the market rejected the newer 1.5 EB I3 engine. I suppose there is a firewall between Chang'an Ford and Jiangling Ford (they are considered separate companies in China). 

 

Also consider that Jiangling Ford is building both Puma and EcoBlue families of diesel engines, the decision to fund a completely non-Ford gas engine just seems wild. Using this alternate gas engine also means no economy of scale on transmission or electrification investments. 

[jpd80]

3 hours ago, bzcat said:

Chang'an produce I4 Duratec in China. Ford used the 1.5EB I4 on several models after the market rejected the newer 1.5 EB I3 engine. I suppose there is a firewall between Chang'an Ford and Jiangling Ford (they are considered separate companies in China). 

 

Also consider that Jiangling Ford is building both Puma and EcoBlue families of diesel engines, the decision to fund a completely non-Ford gas engine just seems wild. Using this alternate gas engine also means no economy of scale on transmission or electrification investments. 

I’m only guessing here,

JMC seems to be the recipient of a lot of redundant Ford platforms and engines,

I think this is a clever reuse of older vehicles and engines in a market sector that

is probably less concerned because of lower prices….. but if Ford brand tried to

do that, it would get rejected because the product looks stale against competitors.

 

People are right, I lost track of the fact that the Duratec 1.5 I-4 has been produced

for a long time in China, so possible that Ford and JMC brands use the same engine 

but the versions for JMC are perhaps lower power and maybe some different parts

or accessories. Again, only guessing here but if JMC is using differnt components

to Ford, it would be because it can source them at lower prices than those from the

normal Ford Supplier base…

[bzcat]

54 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

I’m only guessing here,

JMC seems to be the recipient of a lot of redundant Ford platforms and engines,

I think this is a clever reuse of older vehicles and engines in a market sector that

is probably less concerned because of lower prices….. but if Ford brand tried to

do that, it would get rejected because the product looks stale against competitors.

 

People are right, I lost track of the fact that the Duratec 1.5 I-4 has been produced

for a long time in China, so possible that Ford and JMC brands use the same engine 

but the versions for JMC are perhaps lower power and maybe some different parts

or accessories. Again, only guessing here but if JMC is using differnt components

to Ford, it would be because it can source them at lower prices than those from the

normal Ford Supplier base…

 

 

Here is a summary of the engine options on all the Jiangling Ford products:

• JMC Baodian: 4G18 gas and unknown 2.5 diesel
• JMC Yuhu (old): 4G20 gas and 2.3 Puma diesel
• JMC Yuhu (new): unknown 2.5 diesel 
• JMC Dadao: 2.3 Ecoboost gas and 2.3 Puma diesel
• Ford Ranger: 2.3 Ecoboost gas and 2.3 Puma diesel
• JMC Fushun: 2.0 Puma diesel
• Ford Transit T8: 2.0 Puma and 2.3 Puma diesel
• Ford Transit: 4G20 gas
• Ford Tourneo: 4G20 gas
• Ford Equator Sport: 4G15 gas
• Ford Equator: 4G20 gas
• Ford Bronco: 2.3 Ecoboost gas

The 4G family is used in both JMC and Ford branded vehicles.

 

Still not exactly sure why Ford went with a new engine instead of just using the existing 1.5/2.0 Ecoboost.

[jpd80]

46 minutes ago, bzcat said:

 

 

Here is a summary of the engine options on all the Jiangling Ford products:

• JMC Baodian: 4G18 gas and unknown 2.5 diesel
• JMC Yuhu (old): 4G20 gas and 2.3 Puma diesel
• JMC Yuhu (new): unknown 2.5 diesel 
• JMC Dadao: 2.3 Ecoboost gas and 2.3 Puma diesel
• Ford Ranger: 2.3 Ecoboost gas and 2.3 Puma diesel
• JMC Fushun: 2.0 Puma diesel
• Ford Transit T8: 2.0 Puma and 2.3 Puma diesel
• Ford Transit: 4G20 gas
• Ford Tourneo: 4G20 gas
• Ford Equator Sport: 4G15 gas
• Ford Equator: 4G20 gas
• Ford Bronco: 2.3 Ecoboost gas

The 4G family is used in both JMC and Ford branded vehicles.

 

Still not exactly sure why Ford went with a new engine instead of just using the existing 1.5/2.0 Ecoboost.

Normally when Ford changes something like this,

it’s to save money by using local Chinese suppliers.

 

 

[AM222]

On 5/29/2025 at 6:30 AM, jpd80 said:

Normally when Ford changes something like this,

it’s to save money by using local Chinese suppliers.

 

EcoBoost engines are also made in China, so it's not just a local supplier thing. JMC wanted to make lower cost alternatives to the traditional EcoBoost engines since the existing Ford engines could drive the cost of the vehicles up. The JX4G15 and its larger derivatives were developed to the standards of Ford.

The JMC-Ford 1.5T has a cast-iron block. Other things I found out is it has a side-mounted direct injection layout and a timing chain just like the larger 2.0 EcoBoost. 

The Equator Sport which is exported as the second gen (CN) Territory uses a larger more powerful 1.8-liter version of the JMC-Ford 1.5T in select export markets. 


 

Edited May 30 by AM222

[bzcat]

The 2.3 Puma diesel used by Jiangling Ford looks like it is also similarly value engineered for China. The European Puma diesel was either 2.0, 2.2 or 2.4 liter and have been replaced by the 2.0 EcoBlue. So looks like Ford updated the old Puma (there is 2.0 and 2.3 liter versions now) and is using it only in China. It powers all the Jiangling Ford trucks and vans as I noted above. 

 

 

[jpd80]

7 hours ago, AM222 said:

EcoBoost engines are also made in China, so it's not just a local supplier thing. JMC wanted to make lower cost alternatives to the traditional EcoBoost engines since the existing Ford engines could drive the cost of the vehicles up. The JX4G15 and its larger derivatives were developed to the standards of Ford.

The JMC-Ford 1.5T has a cast-iron block. Other things I found out is it has a side-mounted direct injection layout and a timing chain just like the larger 2.0 EcoBoost. 

The Equator Sport which is exported as the second gen (CN) Territory uses a larger more powerful 1.8-liter version of the JMC-Ford 1.5T in select export markets. 


 

 

6 hours ago, bzcat said:

The 2.3 Puma diesel used by Jiangling Ford looks like it is also similarly value engineered for China. The European Puma diesel was either 2.0, 2.2 or 2.4 liter and have been replaced by the 2.0 EcoBlue. So looks like Ford updated the old Puma (there is 2.0 and 2.3 liter versions now) and is using it only in China. It powers all the Jiangling Ford trucks and vans as I noted above. 

 

 

Thank you both for added info.

The frustrating part for me is that Ford China doesn’t supply more countries like Australia and New Zealand although RHD South Africa gets Territory /Equator Sport.

 

The use of Chinese parts suppliers with older more mature Ecoboost designs would seem to point a reliable product. Hopefully Ford can build on that work for another array of affordable products, even only for Asia pacific region for now where there’s no present tariff issues between those countries.

[AM222]

23 hours ago, jpd80 said:

 

Thank you both for added info.

The frustrating part for me is that Ford China doesn’t supply more countries like Australia and New Zealand although RHD South Africa gets Territory /Equator Sport.

 

The use of Chinese parts suppliers with older more mature Ecoboost designs would seem to point a reliable product. Hopefully Ford can build on that work for another array of affordable products, even only for Asia pacific region for now where there’s no present tariff issues between those countries.

I think Ford targeted the markets that needed more affordable models right away.

In the Philippines (one of the Territory's strong markets) the PHEV BYD Sealion 6 is gaining market share and Ford's Territory sales are down. Coincidence? They have similar pricing. Electrified vs traditional ICE.
  

Edited May 31 by AM222

[jpd80]

5 hours ago, AM222 said:

I think Ford targeted the markets that needed more affordable models right away.

In the Philippines (one of the Territory's strong markets) the PHEV BYD Sealion 6 is gaining market share and Ford's Territory sales are down. Coincidence? They have similar pricing. Electrified vs traditional ICE.
  

Yes, the BYD Sealion 6 is a good package which means that anything seen as less

value will struggle. I think Territory would work in Australia but understand that it

would be fighting against established competition as well as newer Chinese brands.

Ford needs a hybrid utility to go up against RAV4 which is romping away with sales.