Ford's Race to the Bottom

[mackinaw]

The latest supplier index came out, and Ford's score continue to decline, while Toyota, Honda and GM scores rose.  This is absolutely unacceptable.  No wonder they have such pitiful quality scores.  

 

Here's a link to today's Autoline Daily.  Go to the 5:59 mark:

 

https://www.autoline.tv/daily/ad-4058-tesla-cybertruck-trade-in-values-plummet-suppliers-love-gm-hate-ford-aito-shoves-bmw-mercedes-audi-aside/

 

[rmc523]

It'd be nice if Ford can get its act together on something lol.

[mackinaw]

1 hour ago, rmc523 said:

It'd be nice if Ford can get its act together on something lol.

 

To come to Ford's defense, a bit, there's a corresponding article on this in today's Detroit News (behind paywall).  It was mentioned that several suppliers for the cancelled Oakville 3-row BEV were especially disgruntled.  I'm sure their sour grapes carried over into this survey.

[Oac98]

37 minutes ago, mackinaw said:

 

To come to Ford's defense, a bit, there's a corresponding article on this in today's Detroit News (behind paywall).  It was mentioned that several suppliers for the cancelled Oakville 3-row BEV were especially disgruntled.  I'm sure their sour grapes carried over into this survey.

Yup they sure are, the project was almost set to go then it got canned of course suppliers are gonna be pissed off. We had tooling and machinery sitting at the plant and at Windsor engine, 2 billion program shitcanned so we know many suppliers got fucked. 

Edited May 19 by Oac98

[akirby]

2 hours ago, rmc523 said:

It'd be nice if Ford can get its act together on something lol.

I would argue this is one of the most disappointing aspects of Ford right now because it’s very important for quality and it’s relatively easy to fix if the executives put their mind to it.   I think that whole department at Ford needs to be replaced.

[rmc523]

14 hours ago, mackinaw said:

 

To come to Ford's defense, a bit, there's a corresponding article on this in today's Detroit News (behind paywall).  It was mentioned that several suppliers for the cancelled Oakville 3-row BEV were especially disgruntled.  I'm sure their sour grapes carried over into this survey.

 

That's fair, and I'll give them some leeway for situations like that......but, even so, that's also on Ford for poor product planning to wind up with last-minute cancellations and a large variety of product delays and/or cancellations.

 

It's also worth pointing out - as you can see on the chart, supplier relations have been in decline since 2020, and really since 2017 if you pull out the slight increase from 2018-19, so blaming it on the Oakville situation isn't the only part of the story (I know you're not saying that's the only factor).

 

The constant screw tightening affects multiple areas like supplier relations and more importantly from a customer perspective, quality, and we've seen the results of Ford being low in quality rankings.

 

 

[Bob Rosadini]

Seems to me this starts at the top.  If the pressure is to cut costs, that "comes with a cost".  You get what you pay for.  Someone once told me, you can get whatever you want from China or Taiwan..."check the box as to quality level you want".  And the same must apply to domestic production as well.

 

As to "disgruntled" suppliers linked to project cancelations, I would have to believe that all those cancelations had penalty clauses in them that Ford had to live up to.

 

Plus are they not two different issues?   One case involves a major plant expansion, the other is the ongoing process of providing a given component for a vehicle.  I would have to believe that is where the dissatisfaction with Ford is.

 

Vertical integration does have some benefits.  Also, my late wife would be all over me for this, but I have to believe that prior adherence to DEI objectives has played a roll in some of this.

[akirby]

2 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said:

Seems to me this starts at the top.  If the pressure is to cut costs, that "comes with a cost".  You get what you pay for.  Someone once told me, you can get whatever you want from China or Taiwan..."check the box as to quality level you want".  And the same must apply to domestic production as well.

 

As to "disgruntled" suppliers linked to project cancelations, I would have to believe that all those cancelations had penalty clauses in them that Ford had to live up to.

 

Plus are they not two different issues?   One case involves a major plant expansion, the other is the ongoing process of providing a given component for a vehicle.  I would have to believe that is where the dissatisfaction with Ford is.

 

Vertical integration does have some benefits.  Also, my late wife would be all over me for this, but I have to believe that prior adherence to DEI objectives has played a roll in some of this.

I think it’s more likely non DEI is mostly to blame.  Yes the penny pinching starts from the top and is a major factor, but I suspect the personalities of the folks running that department are also to blame.  Probably life long Fordies who just think that’s how you do business.  New younger blood (even outside hires) would probably do wonders.  Mulally hinted at that in the American Icon book.

 

New blood and making partnerships and fair treatment more important than strict budgets is the only thing that will work.

[mackinaw]

24 minutes ago, akirby said:

I think it’s more likely non DEI is mostly to blame.  Yes the penny pinching starts from the top and is a major factor, but I suspect the personalities of the folks running that department are also to blame.  Probably life long Fordies who just think that’s how you do business.  New younger blood (even outside hires) would probably do wonders.  Mulally hinted at that in the American Icon book.

 

New blood and making partnerships and fair treatment more important than strict budgets is the only thing that will work.

 

Here's the Ford part of the article in yesterday's Detroit News (paywall):

 

"Another critique, Johnson said, was organizational complexity, particularly from Ford having part of its purchasing organization in India.

The distance creates communication challenges for some suppliers when trying to resolve issues or get paid, Johnson said.

The longer it takes to communicate back and forth and get responses, Andrea said, the more unnecessary costs there are.

"The buyers could think that they're making themselves more accessible, or top management can be thinking they may be, but it's offset," Andrea said. "It's: Get me the real transactional efficiency that day in and day out really adds up to serve Ford Motor Company. The other pieces are nice, but they're not as tangible."

In 2023, Ford hired Liz Door, a former GM and Whirlpool Corp. executive, as its chief supply chain officer in an effort to address quality and supplier relations issues.

"As part of our Ford+ plan transforming Ford into a higher growth, higher margin, more capital efficient and more durable business, we are working to strengthen and improve how we work with our suppliers," Ford spokesperson Mike Levine said in a statement. "Our goal is fostering resilient, best-in-class relationships that will benefit both Ford and our valued suppliers."

 

[akirby]

Ok, so they brought in an outside hire who seems to understand what to do, so why isnt it working yet?

[T-dubz]

https://www.motor1.com/news/760192/ford-transit-trail-lawsuit-smaller-tires/
 

How can ford not even make sure tires fit properly?

[akirby]

6 hours ago, T-dubz said:

https://www.motor1.com/news/760192/ford-transit-trail-lawsuit-smaller-tires/
 

How can ford not even make sure tires fit properly?

 

Quote

Ford engineers discovered that the front tire shoulders could contact the wheel arch liners at "60 percent of full turn while braking when the vehicle is loaded at or near the vehicle's Front Gross Axle Weight Rating (FGWAR)."

Not an excuse but that would seem to be a pretty rare occurrence.

 

As to how it happened it could be simple lack of testing/due diligence but more often it’s a late change somewhere that seems harmless but causes a domino effect.

[rmc523]

16 hours ago, akirby said:

Ok, so they brought in an outside hire who seems to understand what to do, so why isnt it working yet?

 

That was the first thing I thought too - that was 2 years ago now, and we're still seeing declines.

[T-dubz]

14 hours ago, akirby said:

 

Not an excuse but that would seem to be a pretty rare occurrence.

 

As to how it happened it could be simple lack of testing/due diligence but more often it’s a late change somewhere that seems harmless but causes a domino effect.

I agree, however ford should have known that an off road van would be popular for overlanding and “van life” which usually means lots of extra weight in the van. Testing this type of vehicle fully loaded would seem to be common sense. Can you imagine the uproar if the same thing happened on the bronco and all of those sasquatches with 35” tires were replaced with 33” tires?

[tbone]

23 minutes ago, T-dubz said:

I agree, however ford should have known that an off road van would be popular for overlanding and “van life” which usually means lots of extra weight in the van. Testing this type of vehicle fully loaded would seem to be common sense. Can you imagine the uproar if the same thing happened on the bronco and all of those sasquatches with 35” tires were replaced with 33” tires?

Yes, you would have a lot of pissed off customers.  

[fuzzymoomoo]

On 5/20/2025 at 4:32 PM, akirby said:

Ok, so they brought in an outside hire who seems to understand what to do, so why isnt it working yet?

hooo boy there’s myriad ways to answer that. Start with more trimming of corporate fat. Jim Hackett didn’t go nearly as far as he should have with that. 

[Bob Rosadini]

4 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

hooo boy there’s myriad ways to answer that. Start with more trimming of corporate fat. Jim Hackett didn’t go nearly as far as he should have with that. 

Or "kicking ass and taking names".  This sounds like such an obvious consideration.  "you are putting larger tires on? And you didn't verify the change would not create other issues?"

 

[Motorpsychology]

23 hours ago, akirby said:

 

Not an excuse but that would seem to be a pretty rare occurrence.

To me it seems it would be not to uncommon. 60 percent of full turn would be like a right angle turn at an intersection. For example, assume straight ahead to full right lock is 45º at 1 1/2 turns of the steering wheel. 60% = 27º at .9 turns of the steering wheel; about what it actually is. A loaded down, high cg van in a right angle or hairpin turn on a "Trail" would probably have contact on wallows and rock or tree root outcropings

 

Maybe Ford was counting on mostly "RV Harvey" posers buying them. 😎

[akirby]

13 hours ago, Motorpsychology said:

To me it seems it would be not to uncommon. 60 percent of full turn would be like a right angle turn at an intersection. For example, assume straight ahead to full right lock is 45º at 1 1/2 turns of the steering wheel. 60% = 27º at .9 turns of the steering wheel; about what it actually is. A loaded down, high cg van in a right angle or hairpin turn on a "Trail" would probably have contact on wallows and rock or tree root outcropings

You forgot “while BRAKING” and being at max weight.

[Joe771476]

Maybe Ford needs to hire us BON guys! I'll do the job for $50,000  and no pension or medical plan is required. Send me an application Ford. To paraphrase an old Ford slogan, "Have you seen any intelligence at Ford lately?"  

[twintornados]

On 5/23/2025 at 6:41 AM, Joe771476 said:

Maybe Ford needs to hire us BON guys! I'll do the job for $50,000  and no pension or medical plan is required. Send me an application Ford. To paraphrase an old Ford slogan, "Have you seen any intelligence at Ford lately?"  

 

Well hell...I'll do it for free as I am retiring in June and would only ask to borrow a different Ford once or twice a month.

[fuzzymoomoo]

On 5/23/2025 at 6:41 AM, Joe771476 said:

Maybe Ford needs to hire us BON guys! I'll do the job for $50,000  and no pension or medical plan is required. Send me an application Ford. To paraphrase an old Ford slogan, "Have you seen any intelligence at Ford lately?"  

we make trucks, not sense!

[AM222]

5 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:

we make trucks, not sense!

Ford hasn't been making much sense for the past 7 or so years...
 

Apparently, trucks are the only thing they know... and even those things are getting recalls.

I mentioned this in another thread, when Ford loses market share in a segment, they quit and blame the segment. 

They quit making sedans like the Focus and Fusion and kept their crossover SUV spinoffs (Escape and Edge), then they discontinued the Edge, and now plan to kill the Escape. Many Ford models that were discontinued were global models.

 

Edited May 27 by AM222

[AM222]

On 5/23/2025 at 6:41 PM, Joe771476 said:

Maybe Ford needs to hire us BON guys! I'll do the job for $50,000  and no pension or medical plan is required.

After reviewing all the bad decisions Ford made since 2016 that affected not only their US lineup but their global lineup, a medical plan or therapist might be required. 

[lfeg]

No surprise to me. From working at a supplier of production equipment to Ford and the others for over 25 years, Ford was the slowest to pay invoices, the most demanding of immediate attention, and the hardest to work with, especially when it came to doing equipment service in their facilities. Service that would take a day or two in other facilities would take a week in a Ford facility due to total lack of coordination and cooperation on their part.