Sherminator98 Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 https://fordauthority.com/2025/05/ford-f-150-lightning-sales-numbers-figures-results-first-quarter-2025-q1/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 Odd that it’s taken this long for Ford Authority to report on Q1 sales because back in April, other news outlets reported Cybertruck Q1 deliveries at around 6,400. Must have found some more… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 Gee, I thought Tesla sales were tanking from boycotting Musk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew L Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 It is somewhat surprising the CT is outselling the Lightning since its the newest and has polarizing styling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 7 hours ago, Andrew L said: It is somewhat surprising the CT is outselling the Lightning since its the newest and has polarizing styling. Eh I think despite its drawbacks, it still has enough “look at me” buyers that will be drawn to it. The bigger question is long term sales depth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 7 hours ago, Andrew L said: It is somewhat surprising the CT is outselling the Lightning since its the newest and has polarizing styling. Meanwhile...... https://techcrunch.com/2025/05/28/dozens-of-unsold-tesla-cybertrucks-are-piling-up-at-detroit-parking-lot/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick73 Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 What’s the real point of this comparison? Relatively speaking sales of all these trucks are very low compared to original estimates and or projections, some would say dismal failures, so what does this ranking prove, that one is not the worst of the worst? We should know more in a day or two when May sales are released, but my take is that there is nothing here to brag about, for any of them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 9 hours ago, Rick73 said: What’s the real point of this comparison? Relatively speaking sales of all these trucks are very low compared to original estimates and or projections, some would say dismal failures, so what does this ranking prove, that one is not the worst of the worst? We should know more in a day or two when May sales are released, but my take is that there is nothing here to brag about, for any of them. Purely face saving for Tesla, no more talk of reservation numbers. Ford also silent on BOC as the current Lightning construction set up at Dearborn is well under capacity. All the dollars thrown at products that most buyers show little interest in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick73 Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 2 hours ago, jpd80 said: Purely face saving for Tesla, no more talk of reservation numbers. Ford also silent on BOC as the current Lightning construction set up at Dearborn is well under capacity. All the dollars thrown at products that most buyers show little interest in. Agree completely; mostly posturing given Lightning sales were only around 1 out of every 40 F-Series last month IIRC, and other compared vehicles are no better. Tesla reported numbers are a little higher but who knows how they got there? In any case, CyberTruck sales are a fraction of original projections. On subject of vehicles buyers say they may or may not want, MotorWeek reviewed the 2025 Cadillac Escalade IQ, and while interesting and luxurious in some ways, I wonder how many buyers will pay around $130k (starting price) for a huge 3-row battery-electric SUV that comes with 200 kWh battery. In fairness, that huge battery gives it an estimated 465 miles of EPA range which is pretty good. Escalade IQ reportedly shares many components with the Hummer EV and the Silverado EV, two vehicles that are not selling well, so will be interesting to follow sales volume. If nothing else it’s hard to say to what degree the $130k starting price will limit sales. It’s certainly not a mass-market SUV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 7 hours ago, Rick73 said: Agree completely; mostly posturing given Lightning sales were only around 1 out of every 40 F-Series last month IIRC, and other compared vehicles are no better. Tesla reported numbers are a little higher but who knows how they got there? In any case, CyberTruck sales are a fraction of original projections. On subject of vehicles buyers say they may or may not want, MotorWeek reviewed the 2025 Cadillac Escalade IQ, and while interesting and luxurious in some ways, I wonder how many buyers will pay around $130k (starting price) for a huge 3-row battery-electric SUV that comes with 200 kWh battery. In fairness, that huge battery gives it an estimated 465 miles of EPA range which is pretty good. Escalade IQ reportedly shares many components with the Hummer EV and the Silverado EV, two vehicles that are not selling well, so will be interesting to follow sales volume. If nothing else it’s hard to say to what degree the $130k starting price will limit sales. It’s certainly not a mass-market SUV. GM is persisting with the big battery, premium priced vehicle route. Clearly, price limits the number of sales but probably helps with exclusivity that is expected with a much higher priced vehicle. I think it would be wise for Ford to consider all possibilities but most importantly, matching range expectations with the particular level, be that HEV, PHEV, small or large battery BEV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick73 Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 Range expectations at upper end have been a moving target, though they may soon start to level off once 400~500 miles are reached. What’s puzzling to me is how these GM huge-battery vehicles like Hummer, Silverado, and Escalade can be marketed? They are not saving the planet by reducing GHGs, they don’t save money on energy, not that anyone buying such a vehicle probably cares, and they cost much more than their traditional counterparts. I may be completely wrong, but don’t see much demand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 On 6/1/2025 at 9:19 AM, Rick73 said: What’s the real point of this comparison? Relatively speaking sales of all these trucks are very low compared to original estimates and or projections, some would say dismal failures, so what does this ranking prove, that one is not the worst of the worst? We should know more in a day or two when May sales are released, but my take is that there is nothing here to brag about, for any of them. The point is slow news day and Ford Authority needed an article....I wouldn't look into it more than that. 11 hours ago, Rick73 said: Agree completely; mostly posturing given Lightning sales were only around 1 out of every 40 F-Series last month IIRC, and other compared vehicles are no better. Tesla reported numbers are a little higher but who knows how they got there? In any case, CyberTruck sales are a fraction of original projections. On subject of vehicles buyers say they may or may not want, MotorWeek reviewed the 2025 Cadillac Escalade IQ, and while interesting and luxurious in some ways, I wonder how many buyers will pay around $130k (starting price) for a huge 3-row battery-electric SUV that comes with 200 kWh battery. In fairness, that huge battery gives it an estimated 465 miles of EPA range which is pretty good. Escalade IQ reportedly shares many components with the Hummer EV and the Silverado EV, two vehicles that are not selling well, so will be interesting to follow sales volume. If nothing else it’s hard to say to what degree the $130k starting price will limit sales. It’s certainly not a mass-market SUV. Lightning is running around 3.4% of F-series sales for the year, as of April. 2 hours ago, Rick73 said: Range expectations at upper end have been a moving target, though they may soon start to level off once 400~500 miles are reached. What’s puzzling to me is how these GM huge-battery vehicles like Hummer, Silverado, and Escalade can be marketed? They are not saving the planet by reducing GHGs, they don’t save money on energy, not that anyone buying such a vehicle probably cares, and they cost much more than their traditional counterparts. I may be completely wrong, but don’t see much demand. I think they can market it as "impactless excessiveness" if that makes sense.....the "have your cake and eat it too" in the sense of what would normally be a big gas-guzzling model is now BEV, so no emissions (ignore other factor), so people can feel better about their excessive purchase. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 4 hours ago, Rick73 said: Range expectations at upper end have been a moving target, though they may soon start to level off once 400~500 miles are reached. What’s puzzling to me is how these GM huge-battery vehicles like Hummer, Silverado, and Escalade can be marketed? They are not saving the planet by reducing GHGs, they don’t save money on energy, not that anyone buying such a vehicle probably cares, and they cost much more than their traditional counterparts. I may be completely wrong, but don’t see much demand. Maybe they can boast about their "road hugging weight" which is the tagline Ford used back in 1977 before they downsized their full-size sedans. The Silverado EV weighs about 8,500 pounds, 2,500 pounds more than the base F-150 Lightning. That weight difference is outrageous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick73 Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 37 minutes ago, mackinaw said: Maybe they can boast about their "road hugging weight" which is the tagline Ford used back in 1977 before they downsized their full-size sedans. The Silverado EV weighs about 8,500 pounds, 2,500 pounds more than the base F-150 Lightning. That weight difference is outrageous. Yeah, mass is so high that Car and Driver claims it makes Escalade IQ exempt from EPA testing. Not sure about “road hugging weight”, but can probably make road kill out of smaller vehicles. That’s what I find most concerning with extreme excesses, though know it’s not a black and white issue. For what it’s worth, EPA ratings for Hummer EVs are so bad that it explains why it takes so long to charge even when using latest SuperChargers. I find it interesting to contemplate that GM could build 4 good-size BEVs with the same 205 kWh of battery capacity, and each could still achieve +/- 250 miles of range using latest technology. Quote It also weighs approximately 9000 pounds, owing to its all-electric powertrain and a massive (there's that word again) lithium-ion battery with 205.0 kWh of usable energy. That's enough juice to power the Escalade IQ for a claimed 460 miles. Note: This Cadillac is exempt from EPA testing and labeling requirements because its Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) exceeds 10,000 pounds. It has an 800-volt electrical system that can replenish the battery at up to 350 kW, which is sufficient to add 100 miles of range in 10 minutes, according to Cadillac. These figures are similar to those for the GMC Hummer EV pickup, but in our testing the Hummer took 19 minutes to add 100 miles and required a full 109 minutes to charge from a 10 to 90 percent. We will see. https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a64188721/2025-cadillac-escalade-iq-drive/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackinaw Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 1 hour ago, Rick73 said: .....Not sure about “road hugging weight”, but can probably make road kill out of smaller vehicles. That’s what I find most concerning with extreme excesses, though know it’s not a black and white issue...... After the "gas crisis" of the early '70's, everybody rushed to downsize their full-size cars and make them lighter. GM was first up in 1977. Ford didn't have their stuff ready (the Panther platform) until 1979. For two years Ford had to find a way to sell their heavier sedans, so they coined the ad slogan "road hugging weight". It did buy them time until the Panther-based vehicles came out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 Just more gaming the rules, once a big battery BEV exceeds upper GVM limit for CAFE vehicles, it seems to be off the radar as a guilt free indulgence for those who can afford one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherminator98 Posted June 2 Author Share Posted June 2 59 minutes ago, jpd80 said: Just more gaming the rules, once a big battery BEV exceeds upper GVM limit for CAFE vehicles, it seems to be off the radar as a guilt free indulgence for those who can afford one. They are also a large tax write off for businesses 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 (edited) 1 hour ago, Sherminator98 said: They are also a large tax write off for businesses Pretty much the same way that full sized pickups are in Australia as most are AUS$120k-$150k (US$70k -$95k) In some instances maybe a lot more than that… There’s a fully maintained novated lease set up where the business pays a monthly payment that’s not subject to fringe benefit tax (no payment for personal travel). Those on high income higher tax brackets get a big leg up when a vehicle is included as part of salary package. Edited June 3 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick73 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 17 hours ago, mackinaw said: After the "gas crisis" of the early '70's, everybody rushed to downsize their full-size cars and make them lighter. GM was first up in 1977. Ford didn't have their stuff ready (the Panther platform) until 1979. For two years Ford had to find a way to sell their heavier sedans, so they coined the ad slogan "road hugging weight". It did buy them time until the Panther-based vehicles came out. Yeah, Panther downsizing led to reported weight reduction of as much as 700 pounds, which was no doubt significant, but IMO to compare in proper context, these new BEV vehicles approaching 10,000 pounds should be evaluated in a different light altogether. For example, I recall video of 1971 head-on crash tests between Ford Pinto and Galaxie, and also Chevy Vega and Impala. Needless to say due to mass disparity it doesn’t end well for much lighter vehicles. Granted newer vehicles are all safer, but laws of physics haven’t changed. An educated guess is that larger Galaxie/Impala were roughly twice as heavy as smaller Pinto/Vega, and now with these 9,000-pound GM behemoth pickups and SUVs, the ratio could easily go to 3:1 or higher. Freedom of choice within reason is a great thing I support, but will admit being a little uncomfortable with vehicles that can be so damaging to others. It’s not only the massive 9,000-plus pounds but also the 750 horsepower, which in wrong hands can have dire consequences. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick73 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 On 6/2/2025 at 9:22 AM, rmc523 said: Lightning is running around 3.4% of F-series sales for the year, as of April. Lightning started year better but now that we have May data can see two consecutive months below 2.5%. Don’t know why Lightning growth, or lack thereof, is doing worse than Mach-E unless it’s related to higher price. Important take for me is that market for BEV pickups is quite soft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 On 6/4/2025 at 3:35 AM, Rick73 said: Lightning started year better but now that we have May data can see two consecutive months below 2.5%. Don’t know why Lightning growth, or lack thereof, is doing worse than Mach-E unless it’s related to higher price. Important take for me is that market for BEV pickups is quite soft. It’s always been about price perception, remember back when there was talk of $39,000 electric trucks, that encouraged a ton of reservations at Ford and Tesla that really evaporated as the price moved higher. It wouldn’t have been so bad but Ford began talking about BEV construction costs nearing that of ICE and didn’t all that turn to poo really quickly, construction price of Edge was $19k vs Mach E’s $44k. In my neck of the woods, we’re seeing BYD Shark 6 PHEV and Great Wall Motors Cannon Alpha PHEV, two pickups that are putting fire to the feet of Ranger PHEV even before it arrives. Time will tell… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick73 Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 8 hours ago, jpd80 said: It’s always been about price perception, remember back when there was talk of $39,000 electric trucks, that encouraged a ton of reservations at Ford and Tesla that really evaporated as the price moved higher. We should add $39,000 full-size BEV pickups to the hype thread. 😀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgan20 Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 On 6/6/2025 at 11:13 AM, Rick73 said: We should add $39,000 full-size BEV pickups to the hype thread. 😀 Here's my $39,000 "hype", the best pickup truck I've ever had. 😃 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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