"We're Here For The Work That Makes America Work"

[Bob Rosadini]

So claims a full page Ford ad in today's Wall Street Journal.  It goes on to say..."Its the highway being paved, the hospital being built, and the power line being restored after a storm." And...It's the work that requires grit, commitment, and the right tools."

 

It also proclaims unlike the competition, 100% of F series trucks are assembled in America.  On a side note, I continue to see a New England Ford Dealer  TV commercial featuring Ford trucks including a 650/750 towing a tag trailer carrying a loader/backhoe .

 

While Mr. Farley  continues to mention the importance of Ford Pro in all of his releases, perhaps this ad is indicative that he has finally recognized that he has a big void  in Ford Pro's product offerings.

[mackinaw]

Reminiscent of this 1925 Ford advertisement "Opening the Highways to all Mankind."  

 

[rmc523]

On 10/25/2025 at 11:06 PM, Bob Rosadini said:

So claims a full page Ford ad in today's Wall Street Journal.  It goes on to say..."Its the highway being paved, the hospital being built, and the power line being restored after a storm." And...It's the work that requires grit, commitment, and the right tools."

 

It also proclaims unlike the competition, 100% of F series trucks are assembled in America*.  On a side note, I continue to see a New England Ford Dealer  TV commercial featuring Ford trucks including a 650/750 towing a tag trailer carrying a loader/backhoe .

 

While Mr. Farley  continues to mention the importance of Ford Pro in all of his releases, perhaps this ad is indicative that he has finally recognized that he has a big void  in Ford Pro's product offerings.

 

*For now until Oakville opens lol.

[twintornados]

10 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

*For now until Oakville opens lol.

 

And then the quote will be North America...

[Bob Rosadini]

2 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

*For now until Oakville opens lol.

Hmnn..must be those Super Duty trucks will only be for sale in Canada because if the trend continues, and the Donald doesn't get off his high horse, our friends in Canada will not accept a Ford built in the USA😎

[7Mary3]

Do they really have a big void in commercial vehicle offerings?  Maybe a few small holes yes.

[twintornados]

15 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

Do they really have a big void in commercial vehicle offerings?  Maybe a few small holes yes.

 

Big enough to drive a Class 8 tractor through it.....

[Bob Rosadini]

20 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

Do they really have a big void in commercial vehicle offerings?  Maybe a few small holes yes.

How do  you claim to be the leader in commercial vehicles when it looks like your days of class 6 and 7 are numbered-something which you have been predicting. 

 

And everyone else who was never certainly in class 6 and to a lesser extent in class 7 are suddenly in those classes.  Mack is the latest.  Two examples come to mind of new Mack customers in my area.  One was a processor of cooking oils.  26,000 GVW Mack.  Porta-John Operator that serves our Fairgrounds..new class 6 mack to deliver and pick up 

 

Ford was  if not a leader, a very strong presence in those classes in the Louisville days. And don't confuse the market with "Trucking", it is a market where the vehicle supports the primary reason the business exists.  You are not going to satisfy that with F-550's and F-600's.  And why haven't Ford's 650/750 numbers been good?  I guess it is because the option list continues to shrink and probably a lot of potential buyers are afraid they will be abandoned.

 

They do NOTHING to show they are a player IMO.

[akirby]

52 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said:

How do  you claim to be the leader in commercial vehicles when it looks like your days of class 6 and 7 are numbered-something which you have been predicting. 

By selling more F150/250/350/450/550/600/750,  Transit, E-transit and all the other transit vans and subscription services than anyone else.  Surely that covers at least 90% of the market.

 

You're too hyper focused on the big trucks.

[7Mary3]

I am not so sure Ford needs to compete in every class of truck to be successful in commercial vehicle sales.  Sales of the Transit (primarily a commercial vehicle)  alone are enough to make Ford a commercial vehicle leader, not to mention whatever percentage of F Series sales go to fleets.  No one would say DTNA (Freightliner) as anything but a successful commercial vehicle manufacturer, and they offer nothing below class 6.  Same for Volvo and PACCAR.

 

The fleet I work for has not bought a new class 6/7 Ford for over 10 years.  The reason we stopped buying them had nothing to do with our faith in Ford not supporting the product, it's just we found a better alternative in Freightliner for our specific needs.  We have looked at the F-650 a few times since for certain applications, so the truck is still being considered.  In those 10 years however, we have bought many F-250's, F-550's, and Transits.

 

From what I understand (and someone please enlighten me if they have more sccurate information) Ford was very close to dropping the 650 and 750 when the 'Blue Diamond' joint venture with International came to an end, but a few Ford commercial vehicle dealers convinced Ford to stay in the class 6/7 market.  Supposedly there wasn't much of a business case for the trucks, but by bringing their manufacture back in house, offering only Ford proprietary engines and transmissions, limiting options, and using old parts (cab), they might break even or make a small profit.  I don't know at what point these 'heavy trucks' as Ford calls them are profitable but with the sales of the vehicles falling to below 800 uints/month one has to wonder.  Nonetheless I believe the trucks are safe until the next UAW contract.  Another point to consider is the Avon Lake plant, there were plans to build EV's there but that's all on hold.  No way would Ford consider building the 650/750 in Mexico now with the tariffs.     

[Bob Rosadini]

4 hours ago, 7Mary3 said:

I am not so sure Ford needs to compete in every class of truck to be successful in commercial vehicle sales.  Sales of the Transit (primarily a commercial vehicle)  alone are enough to make Ford a commercial vehicle leader, not to mention whatever percentage of F Series sales go to fleets.  No one would say DTNA (Freightliner) as anything but a successful commercial vehicle manufacturer, and they offer nothing below class 6.  Same for Volvo and PACCAR.

 

The fleet I work for has not bought a new class 6/7 Ford for over 10 years.  The reason we stopped buying them had nothing to do with our faith in Ford not supporting the product, it's just we found a better alternative in Freightliner for our specific needs.  We have looked at the F-650 a few times since for certain applications, so the truck is still being considered.  In those 10 years however, we have bought many F-250's, F-550's, and Transits.

 

From what I understand (and someone please enlighten me if they have more sccurate information) Ford was very close to dropping the 650 and 750 when the 'Blue Diamond' joint venture with International came to an end, but a few Ford commercial vehicle dealers convinced Ford to stay in the class 6/7 market.  Supposedly there wasn't much of a business case for the trucks, but by bringing their manufacture back in house, offering only Ford proprietary engines and transmissions, limiting options, and using old parts (cab), they might break even or make a small profit.  I don't know at what point these 'heavy trucks' as Ford calls them are profitable but with the sales of the vehicles falling to below 800 uints/month one has to wonder.  Nonetheless I believe the trucks are safe until the next UAW contract.  Another point to consider is the Avon Lake plant, there were plans to build EV's there but that's all on hold.  No way would Ford consider building the 650/750 in Mexico now with the tariffs.     

Well you may be right on the possibility of dealers urging Ford to remain in class 6 and 7 when the Blue Diamond venture was dead but I do believe I read it was a bargaining chip in UAW negotiations to move 650/750 from the BlueDiamond plant to Avon Lake.

Also before that it seems when  when Jac gave class 8 away was they truly had some pissed off dealers and Ford then went to great lengths to produce a large number of F-700/800s so dealers would have something to sell until the new 650/750 went into production at the Navistar facility.  

 

And AK, if i'm "Hyper" I guess I see it as a market they could build on with not much effort and with minimal plant investment😎

[akirby]

1 hour ago, Bob Rosadini said:

Well you may be right on the possibility of dealers urging Ford to remain in class 6 and 7 when the Blue Diamond venture was dead but I do believe I read it was a bargaining chip in UAW negotiations to move 650/750 from the BlueDiamond plant to Avon Lake.

Also before that it seems when  when Jac gave class 8 away was they truly had some pissed off dealers and Ford then went to great lengths to produce a large number of F-700/800s so dealers would have something to sell until the new 650/750 went into production at the Navistar facility.  

 

And AK, if i'm "Hyper" I guess I see it as a market they could build on with not much effort and with minimal plant investment😎

Is it possible it takes more resources for the larger trucks - less sharing withe the smaller ones?  And a much smaller market I presume.  
 

They know the competition and must not think there is enough potential profit to justify the investment.  And it’s obviously not hurting the rest of their commercial business.

 

 

[twintornados]

12 hours ago, akirby said:

Is it possible it takes more resources for the larger trucks - less sharing withe the smaller ones?  And a much smaller market I presume.  
 

They know the competition and must not think there is enough potential profit to justify the investment.  And it’s obviously not hurting the rest of their commercial business.

 

I don't believe it takes much effort with F650/F750...they are using an older steel cab version and in-house powertrains ...hell, even the headlights are poached from E-Series...your biggest expenses would be front and rear suspension components like axles and springs. The frames are still open channel C-Frames past the cab structure....don't see how much cheaper it can get unless going to the new cab/interior structure gives it a cost advantage that the current steel cab does not have scale wise. Same issue would also face E-Series.  

[Joe771476]

19 hours ago, akirby said:

Is it possible it takes more resources for the larger trucks - less sharing withe the smaller ones?  And a much smaller market I presume.  
 

They know the competition and must not think there is enough potential profit to justify the investment.  And it’s obviously not hurting the rest of their commercial business.

 

 

How do you know the absence of class 8 didn't hurt lower class sales and that the possible end of class 6 & 7 wouldn't cause further lower class sales? I keep saying but nobody listens - well almost -- that when they dropped class 8 in 1996/1997, DOT's and municipal public works agencies stopped buying as many Class 1 thru 7 Fords as they used to. GM and Dodges began to appear in class 1 thru 5 and Freightliners and Internationals/Navistars took over class 6 & 7. How hard is it to place two rails down the sides with 5 or 6 crossmembers, raise the cab, increase tire size and beef up suspension components and call it macaroni as in class 8? Remember what Ford did with the H-series cabover? They took the C-series cab, elevated it, threw some fender skirts on it and now it was a monster! Not the same scenario, but you get the picture. It's not rocket science to go from class 7 to 8. And like Bob R. has said many times, they don't need to go into OTR sleepers, just vocational. I asked the owner of a tree company who removed a tree from my yard after a storm a couple years ago why he had all Fords from class 1 thru 7. He said brand, dealer and parts familiarity were the main drivers. And by the way, states are repaving roads that don't need to be repaved. They go by age (objective) instead of looking and driving on the road (subjective). Just because a road or highway has some squiggly liquid asphalt filler, doesn't mean it needs to be repaved! And that cap and seal method of paving where there's a lip between lanes that starts forming ruts after the last roller has passed over! Water collects against these lips. Who came up with that method, the paving companies? It's costly and wasteful!

[twintornados]

1 hour ago, Joe771476 said:

How do you know the absence of class 8 didn't hurt lower class sales and that the possible end of class 6 & 7 wouldn't cause further lower class sales? I keep saying but nobody listens - well almost -- that when they dropped class 8 in 1996/1997, DOT's and municipal public works agencies stopped buying as many Class 1 thru 7 Fords as they used to. GM and Dodges began to appear in class 1 thru 5 and Freightliners and Internationals/Navistars took over class 6 & 7. How hard is it to place two rails down the sides with 5 or 6 crossmembers, raise the cab, increase tire size and beef up suspension components and call it macaroni as in class 8? Remember what Ford did with the H-series cabover? They took the C-series cab, elevated it, threw some fender skirts on it and now it was a monster! 

 

If I remember correctly, the HN-80 class 8 cab was marginal at best and would have taken a major investment to fix....proof of that is just how long in remained when Ford Heavy became Sterling....it was discontinued and the entire Sterling line was folded into Frieghtliner and Western Star....if Ford could come out with a F-Series based cab for "Baby class 8" (class 7 1/2??) vocational tractors, maybe, just maybe there could be a case but Ford does not make the axles, suspension pieces, or even the proper engines required for Class 8....sure, they could bring over Ecotorq from either Ford Otosan of Turkey or Ford JMC of China....but they would be tariff-ed to death killing any profit margin.....I do think they need to remain in class 6 and 7 for sure....but class 8? That will be a tough call with the investors.

 

Maybe just import JMC as is and have Ford Commercial service it? Look how long Caterpiller stayed in Class 8 over the road trucks...they were in and gone in a flash....Same for Autocar.....I never even saw one on the road....are they still around?

[Motorpsychology]

14 hours ago, twintornados said:

Same for Autocar.....I never even saw one on the road....are they still around?

10-4:

https://www.autocartruck.com/dc?https://www.autocartruck.com/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=ppc&utm_campaign=DC+search&utm_id=DC+search&utm_term={keyword}&_bt=777234851174&_bk=dump truck for sale&_bm=b&_bn=g&_bg=186451405156&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=21247912070&gbraid=0AAAAADvr8a5cnLO1T0avxNtEGN-pmPHIR&gclid=Cj0KCQjwmYzIBhC6ARIsAHA3IkRvK3ZK6X4f_quikV80Yakm8-Dkphy5_V0FJuos0P7qcePr4Rog5MwaAtzzEALw_wcB

[Bob Rosadini]

On 10/30/2025 at 8:23 AM, Motorpsychology said:

10-4:

https://www.autocartruck.com/dc?https://www.autocartruck.com/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=ppc&utm_campaign=DC+search&utm_id=DC+search&utm_term={keyword}&_bt=777234851174&_bk=dump truck for sale&_bm=b&_bn=g&_bg=186451405156&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=21247912070&gbraid=0AAAAADvr8a5cnLO1T0avxNtEGN-pmPHIR&gclid=Cj0KCQjwmYzIBhC6ARIsAHA3IkRvK3ZK6X4f_quikV80Yakm8-Dkphy5_V0FJuos0P7qcePr4Rog5MwaAtzzEALw_wcB

yes Autocar is still around.  we have a dealer here in Mass,  I think they are probably on the very high end price wise.  They have been building the cab over for quite a few years with refuse their primary market. Can't say I see a lot of the new conventional but they are selling.

I have a sales sheet from the early 80's...and if I put my Mack and Ford prejudices aside, I have to say those A-Cars back then were probably the best.

The fact that there are quite a few still in service-tandem and triaxle dumps- in this area is testimony to that.

[Bob Rosadini]

49 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said:

yes Autocar is still around.  we have a dealer here in Mass,  I think they are probably on the very high end price wise.  They have been building the cab over for quite a few years with refuse their primary market. Can't say I see a lot of the new conventional but they are selling.

I have a sales sheet from the early 80's...and if I put my Mack and Ford prejudices aside, I have to say those A-Cars back then were probably the best.

The fact that there are quite a few still in service-tandem and triaxle dumps- in this area is testimony to that.

Further to this..I just checked Autocar.com   Great website and I never knew they now offered a class 7 cab over.  No clue who builds the cab but will be a market for it for sure.  Once again 6.7 Cummins power.

[Joe771476]

On 10/29/2025 at 4:47 PM, twintornados said:

 

If I remember correctly, the HN-80 class 8 cab was marginal at best and would have taken a major investment to fix....proof of that is just how long in remained when Ford Heavy became Sterling....it was discontinued and the entire Sterling line was folded into Frieghtliner and Western Star....if Ford could come out with a F-Series based cab for "Baby class 8" (class 7 1/2??) vocational tractors, maybe, just maybe there could be a case but Ford does not make the axles, suspension pieces, or even the proper engines required for Class 8....sure, they could bring over Ecotorq from either Ford Otosan of Turkey or Ford JMC of China....but they would be tariff-ed to death killing any profit margin.....I do think they need to remain in class 6 and 7 for sure....but class 8? That will be a tough call with the investors.

 

Maybe just import JMC as is and have Ford Commercial service it? Look how long Caterpiller stayed in Class 8 over the road trucks...they were in and gone in a flash....Same for Autocar.....I never even saw one on the road....are they still around?

Investors? Investors should not be running a company. Every time Ford sold off a division like Philco, Farm Tractor, class 8, the stock price went down!

[jpd80]

 

It still gets back to the same old problem, besides a body and chassis rails, everything else really

has to be industry standard equipment that Ford would have to buy in and add mark up on.

 

By the time Ford does that, they are simply supplying a “me too” generic truck that competes

with all the other established truck brands…..where’s the compelling business case for that

besides a few avid heavy truck fans wanting Ford to spend the money and find out?

 

Sorry if this sounds ill informed but I think it’s how Ford sees class 8 in a nutshell

and they don’t like their odds of success when they can look elsewhere and get

an easier return on on the same investment funding.

[Bob Rosadini]

3 hours ago, jpd80 said:

 

It still gets back to the same old problem, besides a body and chassis rails, everything else really

has to be industry standard equipment that Ford would have to buy in and add mark up on.

 

By the time Ford does that, they are simply supplying a “me too” generic truck that competes

with all the other established truck brands…..where’s the compelling business case for that

besides a few avid heavy truck fans wanting Ford to spend the money and find out?

 

Sorry if this sounds ill informed but I think it’s how Ford sees class 8 in a nutshell

and they don’t like their odds of success when they can look elsewhere and get

an easier return on on the same investment funding.

I think the issue-at least from my perspective is class 6 and 7.  The class 8 ship has sailed in 1998.   They may be a generic truck, but they compliment the rest of the Ford line below as well as the dealer network.  And truly the "commercial market" is a class 6 and 7 market.  If not look at the class 8 manufacturers that have spent money to enter it!  What do they see that Ford does Not.

[akirby]

43 minutes ago, Bob Rosadini said:

And truly the "commercial market" is a class 6 and 7 market.

Huh?  Transit and F150/250/350/450/550 are much bigger in commercial sales.

[Bob Rosadini]

On 10/28/2025 at 7:27 PM, Bob Rosadini said:

Well you may be right on the possibility of dealers urging Ford to remain in class 6 and 7 when the Blue Diamond venture was dead but I do believe I read it was a bargaining chip in UAW negotiations to move 650/750 from the BlueDiamond plant to Avon Lake.

Also before that it seems when  when Jac gave class 8 away was they truly had some pissed off dealers and Ford then went to great lengths to produce a large number of F-700/800s so dealers would have something to sell until the new 650/750 went into production at the Navistar facility.  

 

And AK, if i'm "Hyper" I guess I see it as a market they could build on with not much effort and with minimal plant investment😎

Correction..the "new 650/750" was originally built in Mexico at ..?Escobedo??

The Blue Diamond era came about in 2004.

[Bob Rosadini]

11 hours ago, akirby said:

Huh?  Transit and F150/250/350/450/550 are much bigger in commercial sales.

No argument..I didn't say they weren't.  What I've been trying to say is class 6 and 7 is a key class in the "commercial" market.  Much lesser numbers than 5 on down but again, in recent years Paccar, Freightliner, and now Mack have moved into it.  Doesn't that say something??

[jpd80]

4 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said:

No argument..I didn't say they weren't.  What I've been trying to say is class 6 and 7 is a key class in the "commercial" market.  Much lesser numbers than 5 on down but again, in recent years Paccar, Freightliner, and now Mack have moved into it.  Doesn't that say something??

So the first move Fird made was to introduce the F600 which is an extension of the F550.

That move alone tore into F650 sales reducing them by about a third or more.

 

So now it’s down to  niche sales where Ford is  not required to do much to get smallish sales.

I feel your frustration Bob but we know how Ford wants to run it larger trucks, low hanging fruit only.