"We're Here For The Work That Makes America Work"

[GearheadGrrrl]

Ford and a lot of other makers have forgotten that the average vocational truck fleet's purchasing is done by an overworked purchasing manager who has to keep the enterprise supplied with tools, raw materials, uniforms, office equipment, and vehicles of all sizes. Said purchasing manager would thiu prefer to acquire as much of their needs from as few sources as possible, and the Ford of forty years ago that could supply everything from a Fiesta to a Louisville and off road tractors and construction equipment too and would be their go to supplier. Nowdays when a vocation fleets needs exceed what an F750 can accomplish they go to A Freightliner dealer, see what they've been missing, and forget about Ford.

[akirby]

8 hours ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

they go to A Freightliner dealer, see what they've been missing, and forget about Ford.

But that freightliner dealer doesn’t sell F150s, 250s or 350s or Transits.  So while they might prefer to use one supplier that one supplier doesn’t exist.

 

Obviously the juice is t worth the squeeze on class 8.

[rmc523]

On 11/1/2025 at 8:09 PM, jpd80 said:

 

It still gets back to the same old problem, besides a body and chassis rails, everything else really

has to be industry standard equipment that Ford would have to buy in and add mark up on.

 

By the time Ford does that, they are simply supplying a “me too” generic truck that competes

with all the other established truck brands…..where’s the compelling business case for that

besides a few avid heavy truck fans wanting Ford to spend the money and find out?

 

Sorry if this sounds ill informed but I think it’s how Ford sees class 8 in a nutshell

and they don’t like their odds of success when they can look elsewhere and get

an easier return on on the same investment funding.

 

Not to mention, Ford's cab isn't optimal vs. competitors, so at that point why go with the Ford?

 

I'm still surprised they haven't switched to the aluminum cab to eliminate an old design of cab (interior and exterior) and unify cab production.

 

It doesn't seem like they're going to create an optimized cab at this point.....I know we long talked about some sort of new cab that could cover the MDs and E-series.....I wonder how feasible it would be to create one cab and then just have an "extender" center section to make it wider for MD applications vs. E-series (i.e. same left and right, with an extra 6+" in the middle).

Edited November 3, 2025 by rmc523

[Bob Rosadini]

12 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

Not to mention, Ford's cab isn't optimal vs. competitors, so at that point why go with the Ford?

 

I'm still surprised they haven't switched to the aluminum cab to eliminate an old design of cab (interior and exterior) and unify cab production.

 

It doesn't seem like they're going to create an optimized cab at this point.....I know we long talked about some sort of new cab that could cover the MDs and E-series.....I wonder how feasible it would be to create one cab and then just have an "extender" center section to make it wider for MD applications vs. E-series (i.e. same left and right, with an extra 6+" in the middle).

Like GM did when they created class 6 and 7 trucks when they used the..what would you call it?..front cab clip cowl/windshield/doors,  from the GM vans to make a medium duty cab.

[twintornados]

8 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said:

Like GM did when they created class 6 and 7 trucks when they used the..what would you call it?..front cab clip cowl/windshield/doors,  from the GM vans to make a medium duty cab.

 

Ahh, the Kodiak line. Closest Ford came was when they built E-550 Chassis/Cab....a beast in it's own right. I still maintain that Ford could bring over a JMC tilt cab and mount it on a Medium duty E-Series chassis for a low cost entrant to class 4/5/6 where maximum space is needed for maneuvering in tight spots....but, since I am only a JAFO, my opinion is meaningless.  

Edited November 4, 2025 by twintornados

[Bob Rosadini]

4 hours ago, twintornados said:

 

Ahh, the Kodiak line. Closest Ford came was when they built E-550 Chassis/Cab....a beast in it's own right. I still maintain that Ford could bring over a JMC tilt cab and mount it on a Medium duty E-Series chassis for a low cost entrant to class 4/5/6 where maximum space is needed for maneuvering in tight spots....but, since I am only a JAFO, my opinion is meaningless.  

Ford dealer I did business with was a big fan of the E-550 with its beam front axle.  Had finally landed some business with a seafood distributor and then they pulled the plug on the E550.  I think that company is all Isuzus now.🤔

[SoonerLS]

On 10/29/2025 at 3:01 PM, Joe771476 said:

How do you know the absence of class 8 didn't hurt lower class sales

Because the F-Series sales figures show that it didn’t. 

[SoonerLS]

On 10/29/2025 at 3:01 PM, Joe771476 said:

They go by age (objective) instead of looking and driving on the road (subjective).

Umm, no. Well, CT might, but most states use objective measurements of the pavement. I actually know a little bit about this subject…

 

ETA: I should say they have the objective data; I’m sure there are political concerns that sway the actual repairs they make.

Edited November 10, 2025 by SoonerLS

[7Mary3]

55 minutes ago, SoonerLS said:

Because the F-Series sales figures show that it didn’t. 

 

Truth of the matter was turning KTP over to Super Duty production greatly increased Ford's overall F series production capacity in class 1 through 5.  Sales increased substantially.  

[Joe771476]

On 10/28/2025 at 7:53 PM, akirby said:

Is it possible it takes more resources for the larger trucks - less sharing withe the smaller ones?  And a much smaller market I presume.  
 

They know the competition and must not think there is enough potential profit to justify the investment.  And it’s obviously not hurting the rest of their commercial business.

 

 

Sales of Ford class 6 & 7 mediums would be a lot brisker if Ford was in class 8. That is a fact!

[akirby]

4 minutes ago, Joe771476 said:

fact

 

[Joe771476]

On 11/8/2025 at 11:53 PM, SoonerLS said:

Umm, no. Well, CT might, but most states use objective measurements of the pavement. I actually know a little bit about this subject…

 

ETA: I should say they have the objective data; I’m sure there are political concerns that sway the actual repairs they make.

I've seen roads paved that did NOT need it.

[Joe771476]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

 

I knew you were going to call me out on "fact" as soon as I typed it!  Well it's a FACT that when Ford abandoned class 8 in 1996/1997, DOT's, municipalities and utility providers who had been purchasing Ford exclusively from cars up to class 8 dumps, now found themselves looking at other class 8 providers AND non Ford vehicles from cars to class 5.  That is a fact because it happened, and if something happens, it's a fact.  It's also a fact that because Ford was a full-line producer, they could afford to be the low bidder and maybe eat a little loss in some categories but more than make it up in others.  It's also true that all these drivers/employees driving everything from a Taurus to F850's to C-series commercial fire apparatus to B-series school buses just might tend to buy a Ford car or truck for their own personal use.

[Joe771476]

On 11/3/2025 at 6:30 AM, akirby said:

But that freightliner dealer doesn’t sell F150s, 250s or 350s or Transits.  So while they might prefer to use one supplier that one supplier doesn’t exist.

 

Obviously the juice is t worth the squeeze on class 8.

And no one thinks that when the DaimlerChrysler merger/alliance was in effect, the salesmen at Freightliner didn't mention to the customers, "Hey we have cars, pickups, and class 1 thru 4 now."

[SoonerLS]

8 hours ago, Joe771476 said:

I've seen roads paved that did NOT need it.

CTDOT has data for the roads which are their responsibility—for US highways and Interstates, they have to report on it to the USDOT annually or they’ll lose Federal funding. How they choose to use that data is another question entirely. 

[akirby]

12 hours ago, Joe771476 said:

I knew you were going to call me out on "fact" as soon as I typed it!  Well it's a FACT that when Ford abandoned class 8 in 1996/1997, DOT's, municipalities and utility providers who had been purchasing Ford exclusively from cars up to class 8 dumps, now found themselves looking at other class 8 providers AND non Ford vehicles from cars to class 5.  That is a fact because it happened, and if something happens, it's a fact.  It's also a fact that because Ford was a full-line producer, they could afford to be the low bidder and maybe eat a little loss in some categories but more than make it up in others.  It's also true that all these drivers/employees driving everything from a Taurus to F850's to C-series commercial fire apparatus to B-series school buses just might tend to buy a Ford car or truck for their own personal use.

‘The only fact is that SOME buyers of class 8 who also bought super duties switched to other brands.  But you’d have to show an actual drop in f series sales immediately after they dropped class 8 and a corresponding increase in other brands and I can’t find that data.

[7Mary3]

4 hours ago, Joe771476 said:

And no one thinks that when the DaimlerChrysler merger/alliance was in effect, the salesmen at Freightliner didn't mention to the customers, "Hey we have cars, pickups, and class 1 thru 4 now."

 

Why would they?  I NEVER saw a Freightliner dealer that also handled Chrysler cars/light trucks/vans.  Or vice-versa.  And you certainly could not get Freightliner parts or service at a Chrysler dealership.  Interesting fact, you may remember that Freightliner once sold class 4 and 5 versions of the Ram as the Sterling Bullet and also the Mercedes Sprinter, giving Freightliner some coverage down into class 3.  It didn't last, Freightliner and Sterling dealers were not successful in the lighter GVW ranges.  The Sterling Bullet disappeared when Chrysler was spun off and the Sprinter went to Mercedes, which set up a specific network of commercial van dealers.

 

I do remember when the Freightliner M2 was introduced, it had dash HVAC vents and window cranks off a Dodge Ram 'B' van.  And that was the only connection!    

[morgan20]

On 10/25/2025 at 11:06 PM, Bob Rosadini said:

"Its the highway being paved, the hospital being built, and the power line being restored after a storm." And...It's the work that requires grit, commitment, and the right tools."

 

No other car company has been more generous than FoMoCo in supporting Team Rubicon's disaster relief efforts, such as those following the devastating storms and flooding in Kentucky back in 2022

 

 

 

Edited December 4, 2025 by morgan20

[Joe771476]

On 10/29/2025 at 4:47 PM, twintornados said:

 

If I remember correctly, the HN-80 class 8 cab was marginal at best and would have taken a major investment to fix....proof of that is just how long in remained when Ford Heavy became Sterling....it was discontinued and the entire Sterling line was folded into Frieghtliner and Western Star....if Ford could come out with a F-Series based cab for "Baby class 8" (class 7 1/2??) vocational tractors, maybe, just maybe there could be a case but Ford does not make the axles, suspension pieces, or even the proper engines required for Class 8....sure, they could bring over Ecotorq from either Ford Otosan of Turkey or Ford JMC of China....but they would be tariff-ed to death killing any profit margin.....I do think they need to remain in class 6 and 7 for sure....but class 8? That will be a tough call with the investors.

 

Maybe just import JMC as is and have Ford Commercial service it? Look how long Caterpiller stayed in Class 8 over the road trucks...they were in and gone in a flash....Same for Autocar.....I never even saw one on the road....are they still around?

Some very good thoughts there Twin.

[morgan20]

On 11/1/2025 at 12:04 PM, Bob Rosadini said:

yes Autocar is still around.  

 

On 11/1/2025 at 12:56 PM, Bob Rosadini said:

Further to this..I just checked Autocar.com  

 

Yea, I remember Autocar Company settin' up a small exhibit at Work Truck Week in Indianapolis a few years ago for their electric yard goat. Don't know if they'll return for the 2026 show

 

Edited December 4, 2025 by morgan20

[rmc523]

15 hours ago, Joe771476 said:

And no one thinks that when the DaimlerChrysler merger/alliance was in effect, the salesmen at Freightliner didn't mention to the customers, "Hey we have cars, pickups, and class 1 thru 4 now."

 

You're right.  No, I don't think they did that at all....

[Bob Rosadini]

On 11/9/2025 at 1:37 AM, 7Mary3 said:

 

Truth of the matter was turning KTP over to Super Duty production greatly increased Ford's overall F series production capacity in class 1 through 5.  Sales increased substantially.  

Yes and that was Jac the Knife's objective.  I believe he was quoted as basically saying that..was not that Class 8 was a loser but it did not provide the same ROI as did class 1-5.  Which some would argue that for sure it was the right decision.  I would say if ROI was applied to every business line think of the one dimensional companies that would exist today? 

[akirby]

2 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said:

  I believe he was quoted as basically saying that..was not that Class 8 was a loser but it did not provide the same ROI as did class 1-5.  Which some would argue that for sure it was the right decision.  

That was exactly it.  Why this concept is so hard for some to grasp is beyond me.  If I have $10k to invest in stocks and all else is equal are you buying the stock that pays $50 in dividends or $100 in dividends?

 

2 hours ago, Bob Rosadini said:

.  I would say if ROI was applied to every business line think of the one dimensional companies that would exist today? 

It should be part of every business case but it’s not always the primary decision point.  There can be other factors such as regulatory compliance (current and future), capital investment, budget, strategic market positioning, suppliers, PR, etc.  But in cases like class 8 and focus/fusion they have 2 choices with one being clearly better financially with only minor drawbacks.

[GearheadGrrrl]

And now we're down to essentially only four class 8 manufacturers and a new tandem drive sleeper cab tractor is $150K and up. Ford could have been one of those four surviving manufacturers...

[fordmantpw]

1 hour ago, GearheadGrrrl said:

And now we're down to essentially only four class 8 manufacturers and a new tandem drive sleeper cab tractor is $150K and up. Ford could have been one of those four surviving manufacturers...

 

Or they could have shuttered that business later and missed out on billions of $$$ in profit from Super Duty sales.