‘A fight for our lives’: Ford teams up with Renault to make EVs that can rival Chinese brands

[akirby]

16 minutes ago, Joe771476 said:

The problem is Ford and GM listened to and believed everything King Biden told them: You will build only EV's and the consumer will be ordered to buy them!  Sounded like socialism.

You need to look up the definition of socialism.

[morgan20]

6 hours ago, akirby said:

You need to look up the definition of socialism.

 

Yea, thanks. I'll save Joe the trouble:

 

socialism
noun
so·cial·ism ˈsō-shə-ˌli-zəm 
 

a

: a system of society or of group living in which there is no private property

b

: a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state

[Joe771476]

On 12/13/2025 at 1:13 PM, akirby said:

You need to look up the definition of socialism.

I don't have to, but ok....had HINTS of socialism. Also, a GM big shot said in Automotive News 10 years ago that you won't recognize the automotive landscape someday.  In fact he even said there might not be a Ford or GM someday. Nobody took him seriously. That prediction is coming true slowly but surely.  Ford is thinning itself out into oblivion.

Edited December 14, 2025 by Joe771476

[jpd80]

On 12/14/2025 at 4:56 AM, Joe771476 said:

The problem is Ford and GM listened to and believed everything King Biden told them: You will build only EV's and the consumer will be ordered to buy them!  Sounded like socialism.

I’m afraid you have it backwards, Bara from GM and Bill Ford both Lobbied

heavily for Electric vehicle tax credits to give them a chance against Tesla.

 

Nothing about that was socialism, it was pure corporate greed to use

someone else’s money to  pay for the all electric dream……

 

 

Edited December 15, 2025 by jpd80

[jpd80]

13 hours ago, Joe771476 said:

I don't have to, but ok....had HINTS of socialism. Also, a GM big shot said in Automotive News 10 years ago that you won't recognize the automotive landscape someday.  In fact he even said there might not be a Ford or GM someday. Nobody took him seriously. That prediction is coming true slowly but surely.  Ford is thinning itself out into oblivion.

When GM ran into bankruptcy, they sat and waited for the government to bail them out, that $10 billion was never repaid to the government….

 

In contrast, Ford  paid for its own restructuring and only ask for and

received low interest loans from DOE which were repaid with interest.

[Sherminator98]

4 hours ago, jpd80 said:

When GM ran into bankruptcy, they sat and waited for the government to bail them out, that $10 billion was never repaid to the government….

 

They repaid the loans that the US Government lent them, but the USG lost about 11 Billon in investments that it didn't recover 

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-gm-treasury/u-s-government-says-it-lost-11-2-billion-on-gm-bailout-idUSBREA3T0MR20140430/

[Harley Lover]

20 minutes ago, Sherminator98 said:

 

They repaid the loans that the US Government lent them, but the USG lost about 11 Billon in investments that it didn't recover 

 Don't forget all the unsecured creditors that were royally screwed over in the bankruptcy - except for the UAW.

 

• Total Claims: The primary unsecured creditor group, composed largely of mutual funds, pension funds, and retail investors who held GM's unsecured bonds, was owed close to $28 billion.
• Initial Recovery: In the initial bankruptcy plan, these unsecured creditors exchanged their debt for 10% of the stock in "new" GM and warrants to purchase additional equity.
• Percentage Recovery: The total value of their recovery (stock and warrants) was initially valued at approximately 22% of their claims based on GM's stock price after the initial distribution. This means they lost roughly 78% of their investment, or over $21 billion in total.

[morgan20]

7 hours ago, jpd80 said:

I’m afraid you have it backwards, Bara from GM and Bill Ford both Lobbied

heavily for Electric vehicle tax credits to give them a chance against Tesla.

 

Nothing about that was socialism, it was pure corporate greed to use

someone else’s money to  pay for the all electric dream……

 

 

Yea, exactly. This is an example of regulatory capture, not socialism in the traditional sense of eliminating private property.

 

As Biker16 mentioned elsewhere on this forum, the U.S. automotive industry is characterized by regulatory capture more than the European automotive industry. Nonetheless, one of the big shots at Ford Europe, Jim Baumbick, is callin' for what he labels Constructive Policy Alignment in that region, which is just good 'ol lobbying and influencing regulators by another name.

 

“We need to enable everyone to benefit from electrification and letting customers choose – whether that’s fully electric or hybrid vehicles,” said Jim Baumbick, president, Ford Europe. “It is about making the transition more attractive and more affordable for all consumers and businesses, stimulating demand rather than stifling it.”

[jpd80]

6 hours ago, Sherminator98 said:

 

They repaid the loans that the US Government lent them, but the USG lost about 11 Billon in investments that it didn't recover 

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-gm-treasury/u-s-government-says-it-lost-11-2-billion-on-gm-bailout-idUSBREA3T0MR20140430/

Which is what I said above.

GM did not pay back the $10 billion given in escrow funds. GM was also permitted to claim a lot of losses from Old GM as tax write off for up to five years after exiting bankruptcy. So that $11 billion figure is more like $15 billion.

[akirby]

1 hour ago, jpd80 said:

GM was also permitted to claim a lot of losses from Old GM as tax write off for up to five years after exiting bankruptcy.

But retained zero liability of the "old" GM.  That and the old shareholders getting screwed were ridiculous.

[Joe771476]

On 12/13/2025 at 7:56 PM, morgan20 said:

 

Yea, thanks. I'll save Joe the trouble:

 

socialism
noun
so·cial·ism ˈsō-shə-ˌli-zəm 
 

a

: a system of society or of group living in which there is no private property

b

: a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state

So b is my point.

[akirby]

51 minutes ago, Joe771476 said:

So b is my point.

Which automaker is owned or controlled by the government?

[fordmantpw]

9 hours ago, akirby said:

Which automaker is owned or controlled by the government?

 

We're ALL controlled by the gubment!

[Sherminator98]

7 minutes ago, fordmantpw said:

 

We're ALL controlled by the gubment!

 

They pay me so.... 😛

 

[fordmantpw]

3 minutes ago, Sherminator98 said:

 

They pay me so.... 😛

 

 

Did you ever realize that since you pay the govt. taxes and the govt. pays you, that you are actually self-employed?  😄