Sherminator98 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 14 minutes ago, AM222 said: ....compared to these. I wouldn't call the CRV and RAV4 "good" looking vehicles either..in the case of the RAV4 it is overstyled IMO the CRV is just "boring". The Honda Passport looks decent though. Both these vehicles are the Camry and Accord of the 2020s-they sell on name/perceived dependability Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AM222 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Sherminator98 said: I wouldn't call the CRV and RAV4 "good" looking vehicles either..in the case of the RAV4 it is overstyled IMO the CRV is just "boring". The Honda Passport looks decent though. Both these vehicles are the Camry and Accord of the 2020s-they sell on name/perceived dependability CR-V boring? People prefer it over something that looks dated. Even the Ford Territory looks much fresher than the Escape. Edited January 5 by AM222 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeluxeStang Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 22 minutes ago, Sherminator98 said: I wouldn't call the CRV and RAV4 "good" looking vehicles either..in the case of the RAV4 it is overstyled IMO the CRV is just "boring". The Honda Passport looks decent though. Both these vehicles are the Camry and Accord of the 2020s-they sell on name/perceived dependability I think the CRV is like in this boring but attractive design phase. Some have said Ford should redesign the escape to be boxier, the CRV is pretty much what you'd end up with. I don't mind it, I think a Ford crossover with that shape but sportier design details wouldn't be the worst idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZanatWork Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Honestly, there's little in the CRV, Rav4, or similar that I can call "good looking", whatsoever. The Escape does look dated, and it IS dated, because it's being cut after being utterly outshone by platform mates like the Maverick and the Bronco Sport. The irony is that the platform itself, which made the last-gen Focus such an excellent car, can't seem to make money wrapped in its original guise. Put a bed on it, and/or plump it up and regularly get $40-50k as a baby Bronco, and both the positive reviews and the sales keep coming. I do miss Ford cars. The Mustang is the loyal soldier, but I genuinely liked the last Fusion and Taurus, and loved my Flex (until its transaxle packed it in). I hope that trends bring another blue oval car or two back around. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 A couple of things to keep in mind / for the record facts for the thread... A lot has been said about how FoE and I agree with a lot of points but FoE is already a lost cause. Farley has mortally wounded the business so Ford needs to move on. There are still markets/segments where Ford can compete with Toyota and Hyundai but Ford today has also some limitations. FoE is no longer capable of designing competitive small vehicles. I think there isn't much debate about this. I'd like to be proven wrong but Farley has hallowed out FoE with the intention to shut down all vehicle production there. Ford's plan to revive FoE consist of rebadged Renaults... There won't be a follow up to B2 and C2 from FoE because the engineering talent and resources that designed those platform are no longer there. Ford China has emerged as the new center for vehicle engineering. Look at the products that were engineered there: Mondeo/Z, Edge/Nautilus, Bronco EV/EREV, Equator, Territory, Dadao... If there is going to be a C3 platform, it will probably be fully engineered in China. Ford US is the engineering center of fullsize truck, and the skunkworks UEV program. Fate of current C2 products (Bronco Sport and Maverick) is really unclear. Jury is still out on UEV and no one can really fault Ford's execution on F-Series... it pays for the whole company. Ford Australia is the engineering center for T6 and these guys are wizards... they have done so much with so little. T6.2 is the kind of engineering that other car companies excel at but historically the rest of the Ford was totally unable to execute - keep what works and add incremental value to improve and modernize the platform. They demonstrated previously also how good they were by keeping the Falcon competitive for as long as they did and I'm really glad they got to work on a global vehicle platform like T6. Ford would be wise to add more products/volumes on T6... I think it will be great to add a Lincoln SUV. Ford Otosan is the engineering center for Transit. This is Ford's hidden cash cow. Ford has strong position in the van business in all three major markets it operates in: North America, Europe, and China. If I'm Farley, I would be pouring more resources into this business and build a stronger moat around it, and use it to expand/re-enter the markets that Ford has had trouble competing with passenger vehicles. Places like South America and Southeast Asia. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 14 hours ago, Sherminator98 said: Ford still has a gaping hole in the long C CUV market since the Escape and Edge are gone. I guess a CE1 EV CUV could fill that hole to a point, but i'd like to think that their newest plant can built more than just one product at a time on the same line. I'd assume it would use as much of the same processes that Louisville plant will be using with the CE1 production. I have little confidence that CE1 will successfully fill that Long C gap. The anticipated price will be helpful though so time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherminator98 Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 6 hours ago, tbone said: I have little confidence that CE1 will successfully fill that Long C gap. The anticipated price will be helpful though so time will tell. Why because it is an EV? Given the info that is coming out about the CE1 pickup, it will have no issues what-so-ever being able to be modified into a 180-190in long CUV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZanatWork Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 The irony...I just read a story about Ford's smaller trucks leading an "affordability sales surge" for Ford in 2025, just days after reading that Ford can't compete with affordable mainstream offerings from Honda, Toyota, Hyundai/Kia, etc. The Bronco Sport and Maverick are likely causing minor headaches with their respective successes, as the C2 can't underpin them forever and the all-EV future seems delayed at the least. Let's see how this shakes out.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 26 minutes ago, ZanatWork said: The irony...I just read a story about Ford's smaller trucks leading an "affordability sales surge" for Ford in 2025, just days after reading that Ford can't compete with affordable mainstream offerings from Honda, Toyota, Hyundai/Kia, etc. The Bronco Sport and Maverick are likely causing minor headaches with their respective successes, as the C2 can't underpin them forever and the all-EV future seems delayed at the least. Let's see how this shakes out.... Yeah, it's interesting to see how certain small products are doing well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Keep in mind the evolving nature of C2 which itself is a heavy evolution of the earlier C1 released in Europe in 2004. It is possible that Ford is continually evolving C2 for better hybrid use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted January 6 Author Share Posted January 6 55 minutes ago, jpd80 said: Keep in mind the evolving nature of C2 which itself is a heavy evolution of the earlier C1 released in Europe in 2004. It is possible that Ford is continually evolving C2 for better hybrid use. It would be good to see Ford offer a hybrid with E-AWD as Toyota does. I wonder if there is a market for Low cost Mild hybrid option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgan20 Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 15 hours ago, Biker16 said: I wonder if there is a market for Low cost Mild hybrid option. Puma offers a 48V belt alternator starter mild hybrid version in addition to the battery electric Gen-E version Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 3 minutes ago, morgan20 said: Puma offers a 48V belt alternator starter mild hybrid version in addition to the battery electric Gen-E version I still think Puma would've been a good product for Ford to have here. It has style to it that EcoSport never had. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 9 minutes ago, rmc523 said: I still think Puma would've been a good product for Ford to have here. It has style to it that EcoSport never had. Far better than ecosport but tiny cars just don't sell well in the US. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 Just now, akirby said: Far better than ecosport but tiny cars just don't sell well in the US. I'm aware. Competitors have entrants in the segment, though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 6 hours ago, rmc523 said: I'm aware. Competitors have entrants in the segment, though. Yes an Puma is more upmarket compared to Ecosport which always seemed like it was struggling in the wrong market. chevy Trax was a much better approach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 5 minutes ago, jpd80 said: Yes an Puma is more upmarket compared to Ecosport which always seemed like it was struggling in the wrong market. chevy Trax was a much better approach Exactly - that's why I think it would do better than EcoSport did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgan20 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 On 1/5/2026 at 10:53 AM, Sherminator98 said: Both these vehicles are the Camry and Accord of the 2020s-they sell on name/perceived dependability Actual dependability, not perceived. CR-V and RAV4 are the most dependable and longest lasting models among compact anonymous unibody blob SUV/crossover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgan20 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 13 hours ago, akirby said: Far better than ecosport but tiny cars just don't sell well in the US. Yea, exactly. Toyota and Hyundai gave up on tiny Eurotrash style unibody blob crossovers in the U.S. market (Toyota dumped the C-HR, Hyundai cancelled the Venue). So if even Toyota and Hyundai can't pull it off, there's no chance that Puma or any other global Ford product in this category would be successful in the U.S., and the big shots at Ford know it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 10 hours ago, rmc523 said: Exactly - that's why I think it would do better than EcoSport did. And it has a BEV version too… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherminator98 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 11 hours ago, morgan20 said: Actual dependability, not perceived. CR-V and RAV4 are the most dependable and longest lasting models among compact anonymous unibody blob SUV/crossover Recent & Notable Recalls 2025 CR-V e:FCEV (Coolant Leak): A fuel cell coolant leak can lead to a loss of power. 2023-2025 CR-V Hybrid (Battery/Fuel): Issues with lithium-ion battery terminals or fuel pump components causing fire/power loss risks. 2024 CR-V (Tire Code): Missing 4-digit date code on the Tire Identification Number (TIN). 2023 CR-V (Seat Frame): Improperly welded front passenger seat back frame. 2020-2022 CR-V Hybrid (Fire Risk): Overheating battery cables due to a missing fuse on a 12-volt cable. 2025 CR-V Hybrid (Fuel Leak): A fuel hose connection issue could cause leaks and fire risk. Recent & Notable Recalls: 2013-2018 Models (Fire Risk): Over 1.8 million RAV4s recalled for replacement 12-volt batteries that might not be secured tightly, potentially causing a short circuit and fire, according to CBT News and this YouTube video. 2024-2025 Models (Brakes): Some 2024 RAV4s and 2025 Lexus NX models have loose bolts on front brake calipers and wheel hubs, risking damage or wheel detachment, notes DealerRater and Toyota USA Newsroom. Not to say Ford is any better, but there are issues with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherminator98 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 10 hours ago, morgan20 said: Yea, exactly. Toyota and Hyundai gave up on tiny Eurotrash style unibody blob crossovers in the U.S. market (Toyota dumped the C-HR, Hyundai cancelled the Venue). So if even Toyota and Hyundai can't pull it off, there's no chance that Puma or any other global Ford product in this category would be successful in the U.S., and the big shots at Ford know it. Which means that making "affordable" vehicle all the much harder because the typical North American buyer won't by something that is smaller than say 175 inches long or so in numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 13 hours ago, morgan20 said: Yea, exactly. Toyota and Hyundai gave up on tiny Eurotrash style unibody blob crossovers in the U.S. market (Toyota dumped the C-HR, Hyundai cancelled the Venue). So if even Toyota and Hyundai can't pull it off, there's no chance that Puma or any other global Ford product in this category would be successful in the U.S., and the big shots at Ford know it. Huh? Venue hasn't been canceled, and C-HR just got a 2nd gen (as an EV). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 2 hours ago, Sherminator98 said: Which means that making "affordable" vehicle all the much harder because the typical North American buyer won't by something that is smaller than say 175 inches long or so in numbers. Well, Chevy just sold 200k Traxes (just over your 175" length at 178.6" length) and 100k Trailblazers (174" length).... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherminator98 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Just now, rmc523 said: Huh? Venue hasn't been canceled, and C-HR just got a 2nd gen (as an EV). Might be mixing it up with the Nissan Versa or Kia Rio? 1 minute ago, rmc523 said: Well, Chevy just sold 200k Traxes (just over your 175" length at 178.6" length) and 100k Trailblazers (174" length).... I should have said around 175...the Bronco Sport is roughly the same size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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