North American Ford Ranger Tremor Arrives Later This Year

[akirby]

15 hours ago, 2005Explorer said:

Ford should probably take a good look at how Ranger has performed in North America versus the Jeep Gladiator before they drop the Ranger. I have a 2026 Ranger Raptor and I don’t see any reason it should be discontinued and replaced by a Bronco pickup that will only be attractive to a small group of customers. Also, some talk about an F100 to be a more mainstream replacement, but why drop a legendary nameplate with cool models like the Raptor to just make a generic F100?

Because current Ranger probably isn't very profitable outside the raptor and a bronco raptor pickup will cover most of those buyers and probably at a higher ATP thanks to the Bronco name and image.   The F100 will be designed for fleet sales and have a much higher margin thanks to lower cost.  This wasn't feasible with Ranger due to higher cost and lack of factory capacity.

[Texasota]

Ford is pushing hard on the branding of vehicles into groups. The Bronco family gets three models all being built at MAP. 
 

Ranger has always been an orphan in North America. By moving it into the F-Series family and naming it F-100 it now has a family. It will likely get more marketing behind it and more options/configurations and hybrids like the F-150. It will definitely have a significant retail presence (not just fleet) because a majority of Ranger customers don’t want a Bronco pickup.
 

Ford also wants to expand the Raptor world (very profitable) and you can bank on the F-100 having a Raptor. You can also bank on the Ranger branding continuing in ROW because it is an ICON there and F-Series is mostly nonexistent.

 

As a rabid Ranger fan I’m excited about these changes. I think Ford has a really good plan here. The only thing I don’t like is the amount of time for it to unfold.

[2005Explorer]

4 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

Life support is a bit strong.

 

2018* - 103k

2019* - 112k

2020* - 105k

2021* - 87k

2022 - 83k

2023 - 82k

2024 - 104k

2025 - 106k

 

*still included MKZ and Continental sales

 

Sales have been growing: 2018-2021 sales included sedan volume.  2022 on doesn't, so they've gotten back to where they were with sedan sales on SUV sales alone.

 

Sales would also be up again this year if Corsair hadn't been "hiatused" (Corsair decline of 9,260 YTD, vs overall brand decline of 8,796 YTD).

 

Sure, it's not as strong as the German brands, but life support is excessive.

 

If they can sell even 1,000-1,500 units of the "Bronco" at healthy ATPs (Aviator and Navigator sales have been anywhere in the 1,400-2,500 per month range this year for reference), it'd be fine, and add another 12-18k sales for the brand on the year at that level.

 

Besides, if they're on "life support", how do you propose they get out of life support?  Sit around and do nothing?   Or add new strong products in expanding segments?

I’d question how profitable a brand is (no matter the ATPs and doubt they are much better than high end Fords) when you’re selling around 100k vehicles annually and you have to supply that brand with very unique vehicles that share little besides powertrain and chassis with a Ford. Not to mention all of the dealer support, marketing, and additional costs brought on by a standalone brand. It would be much more profitable to just introduce a Ford trim level that matches the Lincoln at the very top. People are already spending $100k+ on Ford branded vehicles. Lincoln as a brand has zero respect in the luxury market these days. It’s not that they are bad vehicles it’s just Lincoln is the brand your late uncle drove in his later years and it was probably a Town Car.

 

I think I read once where Lincoln is actually a net loss brand and is only kept alive because the Ford family wants it to live. Anyhow we’ll see how a Lincoln Bronco does, but I don’t have high hopes. I’m just being realistic about the crowd that buys expensive off road luxury SUVs and how they view Lincoln as a brand.

Edited September 3 by 2005Explorer

[Texasota]

6 hours ago, akirby said:

The F100 will be designed for fleet sales and have a much higher margin thanks to lower cost.  This wasn't feasible with Ranger due to higher cost and lack of factory capacity.

I hope it isn't entirely focused on fleet sales. I would expect that it will be a healthy mix of both retail and fleet similar to the F-150.

 

I have been wondering what Ford will do to reduce the cost of this "affordable truck". Some CE1 elements seem like a given. I would expect the F-100 to incorporate the zonal electrical architecture which would be a big cost saving. I'm also wondering if some kind of a uni-casting could be used in the front end but don't think that is possible in the rear end given the towing/load requirements that would be expected of an F-100.

JP (@jpd80), do you have any guesses on what other things might be done to improve profit margins?

Edited September 3 by Texasota

[akirby]

1 hour ago, Texasota said:

I hope it isn't entirely focused on fleet sales. I would expect that it will be a healthy mix of both retail and fleet similar to the F-150.

 

I have been wondering what Ford will do to reduce the cost of this "affordable truck". Some CE1 elements seem like a given. I would expect the F-100 to incorporate the zonal electrical architecture which would be a big cost saving. I'm also wondering if some kind of a uni-casting could be used in the front end but don't think that is possible in the rear end given the towing/load requirements that would be expected of an F-100.

JP (@jpd80), do you have any guesses on what other things might be done to improve profit margins?

All it means is they'll offer multiple cabs and configurations (possibly even a transit connect replacement) and lower base prices.  I believe they'll absolutely offer retail versions as well just like F150.

[akirby]

3 hours ago, 2005Explorer said:

I’d question how profitable a brand is (no matter the ATPs and doubt they are much better than high end Fords) when you’re selling around 100k vehicles annually and you have to supply that brand with very unique vehicles that share little besides powertrain and chassis with a Ford. Not to mention all of the dealer support, marketing, and additional costs brought on by a standalone brand. It would be much more profitable to just introduce a Ford trim level that matches the Lincoln at the very top. People are already spending $100k+ on Ford branded vehicles. Lincoln as a brand has zero respect in the luxury market these days. It’s not that they are bad vehicles it’s just Lincoln is the brand your late uncle drove in his later years and it was probably a Town Car.

 

I think I read once where Lincoln is actually a net loss brand and is only kept alive because the Ford family wants it to live. Anyhow we’ll see how a Lincoln Bronco does, but I don’t have high hopes. I’m just being realistic about the crowd that buys expensive off road luxury SUVs and how they view Lincoln as a brand.

I think they're at least breaking even and you need a separate brand for the higher warranty and other perks especially the Black Label models.  It's not just the features but also the styling which justifies the higher ATPs.  And it's also about supporting the dealers.

 

I think there are enough folks who want a Land Rover/G-Wagen type vehicle but want to buy American to make it work.  Remember it's not just about Ford's bottom line but life support for dedicated dealers.

[Sherminator98]

3 hours ago, 2005Explorer said:

 Lincoln as a brand has zero respect in the luxury market these days.

 

Well its not like BMW or Mercedes really give a shit about the NA market these days either

 

Luxury is what people make of it....Lincoln has its unique take on it 

[jpd80]

10 hours ago, Texasota said:

I hope it isn't entirely focused on fleet sales. I would expect that it will be a healthy mix of both retail and fleet similar to the F-150.

 

I have been wondering what Ford will do to reduce the cost of this "affordable truck". Some CE1 elements seem like a given. I would expect the F-100 to incorporate the zonal electrical architecture which would be a big cost saving. I'm also wondering if some kind of a uni-casting could be used in the front end but don't think that is possible in the rear end given the towing/load requirements that would be expected of an F-100.

JP (@jpd80), do you have any guesses on what other things might be done to improve profit margins?

Not really sure how this truck will go but I’m thinking that The one thing most of us agree on

is that Ford  knows what its truck buyers want. So I’m thinking that this truck will be

a nice blend of space efficient design that gives buyers most of the capability they

have with the current F150, maybe fits inside a garage?

[rmc523]

15 hours ago, Texasota said:

I hope it isn't entirely focused on fleet sales. I would expect that it will be a healthy mix of both retail and fleet similar to the F-150.

 

I have been wondering what Ford will do to reduce the cost of this "affordable truck". Some CE1 elements seem like a given. I would expect the F-100 to incorporate the zonal electrical architecture which would be a big cost saving. I'm also wondering if some kind of a uni-casting could be used in the front end but don't think that is possible in the rear end given the towing/load requirements that would be expected of an F-100.

JP (@jpd80), do you have any guesses on what other things might be done to improve profit margins?

 

As Akirby pointed out, I don't think it means they'll offer a stripped single cab model and that's it.  But I think it means they'll have the opportunity to offer/bring back additional cab variants that better target smaller fleet sales, especially since they have an entire factory to fill at this point.  I'd be surprised if we see a regular cab model, but who knows.

 

I'd be curious to see if a giga-casted part could even be done with trucks being BOF......I suppose they could somehow have an entire assembled front structure bolt on top of the frame?

 

I don't remember the timeline....does this come out before or after next-gen F-150?  I think the next-gen F-150 will be really telling as far as their approach for truck construction goes....one would have to imagine they'll apply whatever they do there (savings) to this "F-100".  With how they've pushed back the F-150, one would have to imagine there are some pretty radical changes assembly-wise coming in addition to what's been rumored.

 

13 hours ago, Sherminator98 said:

 

Well its not like BMW or Mercedes really give a shit about the NA market these days either

 

Luxury is what people make of it....Lincoln has its unique take on it 

 

What does this mean?

[rmc523]

5 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Not really sure how this truck will go but I’m thinking that The one thing most of us agree on

is that Ford  knows what its truck buyers want. So I’m thinking that this truck will be

a nice blend of space efficient design that gives buyers most of the capability they

have with the current F150, maybe fits inside a garage?

 

Yeah, I have to imagine if Ford has decided to go this route, they've done a lot of research identifying some sort of gap in the market that they want to exploit......doesn't seem like a move they'd make lightly.

 

Unless we're really just reading into it too much, and it'll be less complex than we think (i.e. beefed up, rebodied/renamed next gen T6 Ranger).

[Sherminator98]

42 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

What does this mean?

 

It seems like they are focusing on the Chinese market, more so then EU/NA markets. 

[BenKohnen]

23 hours ago, akirby said:

Because current Ranger probably isn't very profitable outside the raptor and a bronco raptor pickup will cover most of those buyers and probably at a higher ATP thanks to the Bronco name and image.   The F100 will be designed for fleet sales and have a much higher margin thanks to lower cost.  This wasn't feasible with Ranger due to higher cost and lack of factory capacity.

I kind of wonder something... after digging around a little, I didn't see anything "official" that talked about Ranger rebranding as F-100. But looking at it from the Ford Pro angle, you could do some really interesting things with a fleet/pro "Ranger" that the "civilian" market wouldn't really support well. Regular cabs, long boxes, stripped down for work. Sure, some normal buyer might be interested in those, but they could be their own thing under Pro, and if someone really really wanted one, there could be ways to get one ordered. That work truck would be a great F-100, even if it's really a Ranger under the badge. That would let those units be counted in the F-series total count. I know that's really "cheating", but it's been a thing for a very long time.

15 hours ago, akirby said:

All it means is they'll offer multiple cabs and configurations (possibly even a transit connect replacement) and lower base prices.  I believe they'll absolutely offer retail versions as well just like F150.

That seems to be exactly how Ranger is handled elsewhere. For giggles, the other day I went into Ford Brazil, pulled up their Build & Price, and checked out their Ranger lineup. Regular cab, Supercab, Supercrew, various box lengths, everything from very basic work trucks to a very top of the line Supercrew. I did a mock-build of a loaded up one, adding the power retracting running boards, and did a currency calculations. I about fell out of my chair when it clocked in at $75000 US!

15 hours ago, Sherminator98 said:

 

Well its not like BMW or Mercedes really give a shit about the NA market these days either

 

Luxury is what people make of it....Lincoln has its unique take on it 

I think Lincoln had a run where they really struggled hard to figure out any kind of identity. When your target market literally dies off, you have to find a way to appeal to a new audience. When you can't find that audience, and have no idea what they'd want anyway, that causes some weird combinations on a vehicle. 

[Texasota]

2 hours ago, rmc523 said:

I think the next-gen F-150 will be really telling as far as their approach for truck construction goes....one would have to imagine they'll apply whatever they do there (savings) to this "F-100".  With how they've pushed back the F-150, one would have to imagine there are some pretty radical changes assembly-wise coming in addition to what's been rumored.

Good point. There has been press rumors about steer by wire and brake by wire. I can see that providing some significant cost and also weight savings. And that would fall into the “radical change” category. Ford has proven in the past they aren’t afraid to make radical changes in the F-150 (e.g. aluminum body and V6 Ecoboost). 

[BenKohnen]

Oh, just remembered one other REALLY fun part about a Tremor package on a Ranger...
Just like other models, you can't buy a Raptor of any kind on Plan pricing programs. They're ineligible across the board. Tremors, you can. So, for an X-Plan eligible buyer, or A/Z, or D for that matter, having this option will be prety nice.

[rmc523]

1 hour ago, Texasota said:

Good point. There has been press rumors about steer by wire and brake by wire. I can see that providing some significant cost and also weight savings. And that would fall into the “radical change” category. Ford has proven in the past they aren’t afraid to make radical changes in the F-150 (e.g. aluminum body and V6 Ecoboost). 

 

I remember the brake by wire, but forgot about the steer by wire one.....

 

 

Perhaps I'm connecting unrelated dots, but.........that rumor could actually support the idea of some sort of modified body-on-frame/giga-casting combo, as they'd theoretically be able to assemble the entire front compartment (with dash attached like the Fathom approach as one piece, then merge it with the cab, then drop it all onto the frame similar to now.

 

So instead of having the 3 section giga-cast approach of Fathom (front with dash, rear with motor, center passenger cell with seats all put together), it'd still be 3 sections, but different:

1) front end with dash

2) passenger cell with seats/interior in place

2b) those two are merged

3) assembled bed added behind the cab

4) dropped onto frame (preassembled with powertrain etc. like current methods)

 

 

It'd allow some of the assembly efficiencies/less strain on workers with the tired and true bof approach

[Trader 10]

4 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

As Akirby pointed out, I don't think it means they'll offer a stripped single cab model and that's it.  But I think it means they'll have the opportunity to offer/bring back additional cab variants that better target smaller fleet sales, especially since they have an entire factory to fill at this point.  I'd be surprised if we see a regular cab model, but who knows.

 

I'd be curious to see if a giga-casted part could even be done with trucks being BOF......I suppose they could somehow have an entire assembled front structure bolt on top of the frame?

 

I don't remember the timeline....does this come out before or after next-gen F-150?  I think the next-gen F-150 will be really telling as far as their approach for truck construction goes....one would have to imagine they'll apply whatever they do there (savings) to this "F-100".  With how they've pushed back the F-150, one would have to imagine there are some pretty radical changes assembly-wise coming in addition to what's been rumored.

 

 

What does this mean?

I believe NG F150 is fall 2028 release as 2029 model. So before the “F 100” and Bronco truck come out. 

[Texasota]

1 hour ago, rmc523 said:

 

I remember the brake by wire, but forgot about the steer by wire one.....

 

 

Perhaps I'm connecting unrelated dots, but.........that rumor could actually support the idea of some sort of modified body-on-frame/giga-casting combo, as they'd theoretically be able to assemble the entire front compartment (with dash attached like the Fathom approach as one piece, then merge it with the cab, then drop it all onto the frame similar to now.

 

So instead of having the 3 section giga-cast approach of Fathom (front with dash, rear with motor, center passenger cell with seats all put together), it'd still be 3 sections, but different:

1) front end with dash

2) passenger cell with seats/interior in place

2b) those two are merged

3) assembled bed added behind the cab

4) dropped onto frame (preassembled with powertrain etc. like current methods)

 

 

It'd allow some of the assembly efficiencies/less strain on workers with the tired and true bof approach

ZF is a pioneer in these wired systems:

 

https://www.zf.com/mobile/en/technologies/by_wire/by_wire.html

 

Going down this road would result in the elimination of considerable hydraulic and mechanical components.

Edited September 4 by Texasota

[jpd80]

7 hours ago, rmc523 said:

 

Yeah, I have to imagine if Ford has decided to go this route, they've done a lot of research identifying some sort of gap in the market that they want to exploit......doesn't seem like a move they'd make lightly.

 

Unless we're really just reading into it too much, and it'll be less complex than we think (i.e. beefed up, rebodied/renamed next gen T6 Ranger).

Which vehicle is Ford targeting….

Tacoma leads in sales by a long way, imagine what Ford is willing to do

to go after all of those buyers - a truck that’s slightly bigger?

 

 

[akirby]

1 hour ago, jpd80 said:

Which vehicle is Ford targeting….

Tacoma leads in sales by a long way, imagine what Ford is willing to do

to go after all of those buyers - a truck that’s slightly bigger?

 

 

I don't think they're targeting Tacoma at all.  I think they're targeting flexibility and lower cost which will drive volume and profitability.  

[Texasota]

20 minutes ago, akirby said:

I don't think they're targeting Tacoma at all.  I think they're targeting flexibility and lower cost which will drive volume and profitability.  

But given that Tacoma currently has the largest market share it will steal sales from Toyota if Ford achieves that flexibility and lower cost. I hope it steals lots of Tacoma market share.

[akirby]

17 minutes ago, Texasota said:

But given that Tacoma currently has the largest market share it will steal sales from Toyota if Ford achieves that flexibility and lower cost. I hope it steals lots of Tacoma market share.

Yes it should take some share from Tacoma but I think this will be a much different truck.

[jpd80]

6 hours ago, akirby said:

Yes it should take some share from Tacoma but I think this will be a much different truck.

Agreed, Texasorta hit the target better than I did.

Consider this,
- Mid sized Truck sales are modest

- Slightly larger Tacoma sales are x2 and x3 better than Colorado twins  and Ranger 

- F150/1500 trucks is where sales numbers peak

- SD/2500 up trucks is approx half of F150/1500 truck sales

The sweet spot that Ford is after is somewhere between Tacoma and F150,

thinking size and capabilities. If Ford gets this right, its competitors will be scrambling for years trying to catch up by reinventing their products but simply looking like copy carts.

Off topic,

Im wondering if the above then allows Ford to use lighter F150 frame as a new F200 just above the 8,500 lb CAFE cut off for an efficient 7.3 tow vehicle that adds more profit without having to worry about fleet economy.. (probably a whole other thread)

Edited September 5 by jpd80
Typo

[twintornados]

Been saying it for years that half ton trucks in general are getting too big and the first one to slot in just under it will reap the rewards. Ford seems like a natural since that is pretty much all that is left in Ford's line....trucks. 

[akirby]

54 minutes ago, twintornados said:

the first one to slot in just under it will reap the rewards.

That would be tacoma.

[Texasota]

2 hours ago, akirby said:

That would be tacoma.

Tacoma is about an inch wider and about 2.4” longer. The Tacoma also offers a 6’ bed but it is a relatively small percentage of sales. They’re close but overall Tacoma is a tad larger. More than I thought. I understand better now what JP is getting at.