Biker16 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Ford Admits Its EV Division Will Keep Burning Billions For Years | Carscoops Quote Ford Admits Its EV Division Will Keep Burning Billions For Years Despite slashing EV programs, Ford’s electric division keeps losing money, raising questions about its long-term future Ford’s Model e division lost $4.48 billion again last year. Total EV losses now exceed $16 billion in just four years. Breakeven for Model e may not arrive until 2029. Ford has never been shy about making big, attention-grabbing bets. Sometimes they pay off, sometimes they don’t. In early 2022, the company announced it was splitting its automaking operations into two distinct branches: Ford Blue, handling traditional combustion vehicles, and Ford Model e, dedicated to EVs. At the time, it sounded like a smart move, especially with EV demand climbing fast. That optimism, however, hasn’t quite paid off. Fast forward four years, and Ford’s huge investments in EVs have come back to bite it. In its latest financial results, the automaker disclosed that the Model e division posted a staggering $4.48 billion loss in 2025. Worse, those losses are expected to continue mounting, even after canceling several planned EV projects. Read: Ford Got The Loan And Built The EV Battery Plant. Now Everything’s Falling Apart Earlier this week, Ford revealed its electric car business will likely lose between $4 billion and $4.5 billion this year, and will continue to lose money through at least 2027 and 2028. Speaking on a conference call following the earnings report, Ford CFO Sherry House stated the company is not aiming for a breakeven point for the Model e brand until “around 2029.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Stupid take. It took Tesla over 10 years to turn a profit. They won't even have a new EV to sell until next year and 2 more years to have a few others. Lightning and Mach-E were just placeholders. And they're still expecting $8B+ profit. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Suddenly it feels like 2018 all over again except now Ford can see all the debt piling up…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted February 13 Author Share Posted February 13 14 minutes ago, akirby said: Stupid take. It took Tesla over 10 years to turn a profit. They won't even have a new EV to sell until next year and 2 more years to have a few others. Lightning and Mach-E were just placeholders. And they're still expecting $8B+ profit. The Question is: if they are generating profit by cutting back investments in new products and R&D, that profit isn't a sign of a strong business but a weak one. As a homeowner, if my roof is leaking, I could spend money upfront to replace the roof, repair the roof, or buy more buckets. Buckets are cheap and look great on a P+L. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 50 minutes ago, Biker16 said: The Question is: if they are generating profit by cutting back investments in new products and R&D, that profit isn't a sign of a strong business but a weak one. There are at least 8 new products being developed right now. There is no cut back on R&D or products, just a couple of redirects to new strategies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 And BTW - stop bitching about Ford just because they stopped making YOUR favorite vehicles. 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 (edited) 1 hour ago, akirby said: There are at least 8 new products being developed right now. There is no cut back on R&D or products, just a couple of redirects to new strategies. Ford doesn’t have a good track record of developing appropriate BEVs that enough buyers want. The placeholders struggled because of battery cost/weight and charging shortcomings- those issues are still there with future vehicles, they’re just making vehicle size and battery size smaller for better perceived savings. help me understand how Ford has learned anything from its $19 billion bath….. Edited February 13 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 17 minutes ago, jpd80 said: Ford doesn’t have a good track record of developing appropriate BEVs that enough buyers want. The placeholders struggled because of battery cost/weight and charging shortcomings- those issues are still there with future vehicles, they’re just making vehicle size and battery size smaller for better perceived savings. help me understand how Ford has learned anything from its $19 billion bath….. It's hard to say what they've learned/haven't learned when we haven't even seen the full product... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 32 minutes ago, jpd80 said: help me understand how Ford has learned anything from its $19 billion bath….. Really? The entire CE1 project says they did exactly that and instead of pushing large expensive BEVs they're going for smaller cheaper ones which should have higher volumes on price alone and which should also provide higher profit margins. It's all theory until the vehicles are out but what other course should they be taking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 16 minutes ago, rmc523 said: It's hard to say what they've learned/haven't learned when we haven't even seen the full product... They're targeting smaller cheaper vehicles. That's a 180. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherminator98 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 34 minutes ago, jpd80 said: Ford doesn’t have a good track record of developing appropriate BEVs that enough buyers want The issue is the market never took off-in a vacuum this looks bad for Ford, but its not like other makers aren't experiencing the same issues and having the same drawback in products. The only upside is that is Ford has another production plant it prob could have used for the past 15-20 years and EV products cancelled are being replaced by other products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 16 minutes ago, akirby said: They're targeting smaller cheaper vehicles. That's a 180. Sure, but we won't truly know how it all works until we see it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 On the topic itself, we knew losses would continue until the real heavy lifters get going. Starting from scratch there will be a lot of losses until products start selling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 1 hour ago, rmc523 said: Sure, but we won't truly know how it all works until we see it. OK but what other direction should they be taking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 (edited) Don’t get me wrong, I hope CE1 is a success but I just see the whole development as being less about customer wants and needs and more about what Ford can make for higher profit. Remember, Ford thought it was right about every other BEV it has developed so far that either made it to market and then underwhelmed with sales or was killed in development. What is it about a mid sized BEV pickup truck that makes it a compelling buy over say a good hybrid Ranger? Edited February 13 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texasota Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 28 minutes ago, jpd80 said: What is it about a mid sized BEV pickup truck that makes it a compelling buy over say a good hybrid Ranger? That is a really good question. For my situation (frequently towing a 4000 lb boat), I'd hand over my wallet to Ford for a good hybrid Ranger but a BEV midsize truck does not work at all for me. But, not everyone's situation is the same as mine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 All was going according to a planned profit until the current Administration took over (and I am not blaming POTUS - just the direction away from future tech) but with all that, EV's are the path of the future and Administration's change and so will the Governmental direction. Ford is actually smart to continue to move forward with modified EV plans.....in the words of a classic disco anthem....Ain't no stoppin' us now.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 7 hours ago, akirby said: OK but what other direction should they be taking? not sure what you’re getting at. All I’m saying is we won’t know how successful they were in addressing market concerns and customer wants until we actually see the thing(s) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 14 hours ago, jpd80 said: Don’t get me wrong, I hope CE1 is a success but I just see the whole development as being less about customer wants and needs and more about what Ford can make for higher profit. Remember, Ford thought it was right about every other BEV it has developed so far that either made it to market and then underwhelmed with sales or was killed in development. What is it about a mid sized BEV pickup truck that makes it a compelling buy over say a good hybrid Ranger? Why do people buy Mavericks over Rangers? Ford RWD hybrids only add about 6 mpg city and 0 highway. That puts a hybrid Ranger at 27/26 while a hybrid Maverick is 42/35. Hybrid Ranger doesn't move the bar just like Explorer hybrid didn't move the bar enough. The breakthrough with ce1 is about production costs but that also translates into lower MSRPs which helps buyers and will yield higher volume. I don't think they'll screw up the design or features in search of more aero and lower prices but we'll have to wait and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 14 hours ago, Texasota said: That is a really good question. For my situation (frequently towing a 4000 lb boat), I'd hand over my wallet to Ford for a good hybrid Ranger but a BEV midsize truck does not work at all for me. But, not everyone's situation is the same as mine. What mpg would you expect from a hybrid Ranger? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 7 hours ago, rmc523 said: not sure what you’re getting at. All I’m saying is we won’t know how successful they were in addressing market concerns and customer wants until we actually see the thing(s) Ok I get it. I'm looking at Maverick which they absolutely nailed so I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeluxeStang Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 16 hours ago, jpd80 said: What is it about a mid sized BEV pickup truck that makes it a compelling buy over say a good hybrid Ranger? Better packaging, better reliability, lower cost of ownership, more refinement. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 36 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said: Better packaging, better reliability, lower cost of ownership, more refinement. Never buy gas, no fluids to change, massive acceleration. Same as every other BEV. It's not a question of converting ICE buyers. It's giving those who want an EV a smaller less expensive truck option. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texasota Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 (edited) 2 hours ago, akirby said: What mpg would you expect from a hybrid Ranger? A hybrid Ranger in North America would likely have the same hybrid system as the F-150 Powerboost. The non-hybrid F-150 3.5 4WD is rated at 16/24/19. The F-150 3.5 4WD Powerboost is rated at 22/24/23 (a 21% improvement). The Ranger 4WD 2.3 is rated at 19/26/22. If a Ranger 4WD 2.3 Powerboost achieved about the same improvement as the F-150 Powerboost, then I would expect about 25/26/26 (probably slightly better due to Ranger being ~500 pounds lighter). But it's not only about MPG. If they don't de-tune a Ranger Powerboost (like they did the Ranger PHEV), then it would be in the neighborhood of 360 HP and 500 lb-ft of torque which would be exceptionally fun and fantastic for towing. With Pro Power Onboard it would be even more appealing. Edited February 14 by Texasota Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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