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Ford Admits Its EV Division Will Keep Burning Billions For Years


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6 minutes ago, Texasota said:

A hybrid Ranger in North America would likely have the same hybrid system as the F-150 Powerboost. The non-hybrid F-150 3.5 4WD is rated at 16/24/19. The F-150 3.5 4WD Powerboost is rated at 22/24/23 (a 21% improvement).

 

The Ranger 4WD 2.3 is rated at 19/26/22. If a Ranger 4WD 2.3 Powerboost achieved about the same improvement as the F-150 Powerboost, then I would expect about 25/26/26 (probably slightly better due to Ranger being ~500 pounds lighter).

 

If they don't de-tune a Ranger Powerboost (like they did the Ranger PHEV), then it would be in the neighborhood of 360 HP and 500 lb-ft of torque which would be exceptionally fun and fantastic for towing. With Pro Power Onboard it would be even more appealing.


Gotcha.  Powerboost is the way to go.  I think some hear hybrid ranger or bronco and think it's going to get 40 mpg like Maverick.

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4 minutes ago, akirby said:


Gotcha.  Powerboost is the way to go.  I think some hear hybrid ranger or bronco and think it's going to get 40 mpg like Maverick.

For me, the modest improvement in MPG is welcome, but it is the additional power and capability that is very appealing.

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20 hours ago, akirby said:

They're targeting smaller cheaper vehicles.  That's a 180.

 

Excellent article in today's Detroit News about how Ford plans to make EV's profitable.  Of course it's behind a paywall.  This statement from Farley stands out:

 

"We dealt decisively with the reality of the market," Ford CEO Jim Farley said this week on an earnings call, "and shifted our focus of our EV business to a high-volume, affordable end of the market."

 

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/ford/2026/02/13/ford-model-e-profitable-2029-earnings-ev/88622942007/?gnt-cfr=1&gca-cat=p&gca-uir=true&gca-epti=z11xx60p119750c119750v11xx60d--46--b--46--&gca-ft=65&gca-ds=sophi

 

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1 hour ago, akirby said:


Never buy gas, no fluids to change, massive acceleration.  Same as every other BEV.

 

It's not a question of converting ICE buyers.  It's giving those who want an EV a smaller less expensive truck option.

Pretty much. I like what JPD is proposing. But a ranger hybrid would appeal to someone like a maverick owner who wanted a larger, more capable truck, or someone who wanted a pro power hybrid that was smaller, and more affordable than an f-150. Whereas the CE1 thing appeals to an entirely different demographic. 

 

With them talking about performance and driving engagement, design, and having lots of customization according to people who've seen it, that makes the CE1 truck sound a lot more lifestyle oriented than something like a ranger. 

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22 hours ago, akirby said:


There are at least 8 new products being developed right now.  There is no cut back on R&D or products, just a couple of redirects to new strategies.

 

If you say so. 

 

How can an investor hold the company accountable for delivering on its commitments if it refuses to commit to products or timelines outside of vague press releases and statements. 

 

22 hours ago, akirby said:

And BTW - stop bitching about Ford just because they stopped making YOUR favorite vehicles.  

 

😂 😂😂😂😂😂😂

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1 hour ago, mackinaw said:

 

Excellent article in today's Detroit News about how Ford plans to make EV's profitable.  Of course it's behind a paywall.  This statement from Farley stands out:

 

"We dealt decisively with the reality of the market," Ford CEO Jim Farley said this week on an earnings call, "and shifted our focus of our EV business to a high-volume, affordable end of the market."

 

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/ford/2026/02/13/ford-model-e-profitable-2029-earnings-ev/88622942007/?gnt-cfr=1&gca-cat=p&gca-uir=true&gca-epti=z11xx60p119750c119750v11xx60d--46--b--46--&gca-ft=65&gca-ds=sophi

 

 

Questions reporters should be following up with. 

  • Which market are we referring to? 
  • What does affordable mean?
  • What's the timeline of the development of these new vehicles? 
  • Will they be imported?
  • Will they be made in the US?
  • Will these products be global products or just for North America?
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1 hour ago, akirby said:


Gotcha.  Powerboost is the way to go.  I think some hear hybrid ranger or bronco and think it's going to get 40 mpg like Maverick.

Absolutely spot on.

Think competitor to Toyota Tacoma I-Force but better, that 2.4 thing gets city 23mpg/ highway 24 mpg

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2 hours ago, akirby said:


Never buy gas, no fluids to change, massive acceleration.  Same as every other BEV.

 

It's not a question of converting ICE buyers.  It's giving those who want an EV a smaller less expensive truck option.

Would it send out mixed messages if Ford just threw away a combined 20,000 Escape/corsair sales

to spend $5 billion on converting Louisville to make a BEV truck that sells at Mach E sales level…

 

 

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4 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Absolutely spot on.

Think competitor to Toyota Tacoma I-Force but better, that 2.4 thing gets city 23mpg/ highway 24 mpg

Plus you could carry that power boost ranger powertrain over to the bronco with relative ease. I could see that being a nice feature for over landing. 

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1 hour ago, DeluxeStang said:

Plus you could carry that power boost ranger powertrain over to the bronco with relative ease. I could see that being a nice feature for over landing. 

We already know from Farley's comments that a Bronco with exportable power (i.e. Pro Power Onboard) is coming. That means there will be a hybrid Bronco since that is a prerequisite for the larger Pro Power Onboard systems. The unknown is whether Ford will do the same for the Ranger (assuming it remains in the NA Ford lineup).

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11 hours ago, Biker16 said:

 

Questions reporters should be following up with. 

  • Which market are we referring to? 
  • What does affordable mean?
  • What's the timeline of the development of these new vehicles? 
  • Will they be imported?
  • Will they be made in the US?
  • Will these products be global products or just for North America?

 

Any CEO that answers those questions this early out should be fired.  
 

They're not building you a new Focus any time soon.  Get over it.

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11 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Would it send out mixed messages if Ford just threw away a combined 20,000 Escape/corsair sales

to spend $5 billion on converting Louisville to make a BEV truck that sells at Mach E sales level…

 

 


Why are you so damned pessimistic about this ce1 pickup?   

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1 hour ago, akirby said:


Why are you so damned pessimistic about this ce1 pickup?   

It’s hard to properly articulate that but mostly about what we are not being told or shown at the moment.

Maybe on on closed loop pessimism because of Ford’s other recent BEV cancellations…

 

The clinics on prototypes are much better than three row BEV but definitely more customers from outside Ford.

Relying on that concerns me because we have also seen those buyers /reservations evaporate quickly 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, jpd80 said:

It’s hard to properly articulate that but mostly about what we are not being told or shown at the moment.

Maybe on on closed loop pessimism because of Ford’s other recent BEV cancellations…

 

The clinics on prototypes are much better than three row BEV but definitely more customers from outside Ford.

Relying on that concerns me because we have also seen those buyers /reservations evaporate quickly 

 


I think it's way too early to reveal details to the public.  Why show something that's more than a year away?  Remember Bronco?

 

Maverick brought in mostly non Ford buyers too.  That's a good thing since you're not cannibalizing other Ford sales.

 

The reason Lightning reservations were cancelled were mainly due to the price changes so keeping the price at $30k-$35k will be key.

 

I think we'll see teasers until fall when they'll unveil it and start taking reservations.  Revealing it early doesn't help Ford at all.  It also gives them more time to make changes.

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8 hours ago, jpd80 said:

It’s hard to properly articulate that but mostly about what we are not being told or shown at the moment.

Maybe on on closed loop pessimism because of Ford’s other recent BEV cancellations…

 

The clinics on prototypes are much better than three row BEV but definitely more customers from outside Ford.

Relying on that concerns me because we have also seen those buyers /reservations evaporate quickly 

 

This!!

 

It feels more like trust me bro than due diligence

 

To me, the Ford strategy seems incoherent. With every new press release or report, the incoherence gets worse. 

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10 hours ago, akirby said:

 

Any CEO that answers those questions this early out should be fired.  
 

They're not building you a new Focus any time soon.  Get over it.

 

The CEOs of Rivian, Tesla, and lucid, have less of a problem with transparency than Ford does. 

 

Again, if you have a strategy to address your known issues, why are you hiding it. 

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4 hours ago, akirby said:


I think it's way too early to reveal details to the public.  Why show something that's more than a year away?  Remember Bronco?

 

Maverick brought in mostly non Ford buyers too.  That's a good thing since you're not cannibalizing other Ford sales.

 

The reason Lightning reservations were cancelled were mainly due to the price changes so keeping the price at $30k-$35k will be key.

 

I think we'll see teasers until fall when they'll unveil it and start taking reservations.  Revealing it early doesn't help Ford at all.  It also gives them more time to make changes.

 I’m wondering if production launches late in 2017, that would mean no reveal until at least the end of this year

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2 hours ago, Biker16 said:

 

The CEOs of Rivian, Tesla, and lucid, have less of a problem with transparency than Ford does. 

 

Again, if you have a strategy to address your known issues, why are you hiding it. 


Wow you mean companies that only sell 2 vehicles are talking about new ones?  Ford doesn't need the hype.

 

They've said exactly what they're building, with prices, shown sillouettes, shown the new assembly process and presumably will show even more details on how they're achieving their objectives.

 

The only thing they haven't shown is the actual vehicle.  Now please tell me what Ford has to gain by showing a vehicle that won't be built for 12-18 months and can't be ordered for 6-12 months.  Build up too much hype now and it's lost.  Do you not remember Bronco?

 

Show it and take orders 6 months before production.  Anything earlier is a mistake.

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10 hours ago, jpd80 said:

It’s hard to properly articulate that but mostly about what we are not being told or shown at the moment.

Maybe on on closed loop pessimism because of Ford’s other recent BEV cancellations…

 

The clinics on prototypes are much better than three row BEV but definitely more customers from outside Ford.

Relying on that concerns me because we have also seen those buyers /reservations evaporate quickly 

 

 

 

So do you have any specific comments about what consumers are actually saying about the design now that it's being shown in clinics? I'm very curious about this. I'd imagine CE1 will look like a shrunken down t3 design to an extent, maybe a bit sportier to appeal to a younger, more vibrant consumer base. 

 

The fact that people don't seem repulsed by it unlike the three row is a good sign at least. That implies it's gonna have a more enticing design that doesn't look like a science experiment. 

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4 hours ago, akirby said:


I think it's way too early to reveal details to the public.  Why show something that's more than a year away?  Remember Bronco?

 

Maverick brought in mostly non Ford buyers too.  That's a good thing since you're not cannibalizing other Ford sales.

 

The reason Lightning reservations were cancelled were mainly due to the price changes so keeping the price at $30k-$35k will be key.

 

I think we'll see teasers until fall when they'll unveil it and start taking reservations.  Revealing it early doesn't help Ford at all.  It also gives them more time to make changes.

To be fair, wouldn't the design be locked in with about a year to go if they're already retooling the plant? I agree about the teasers. I don't believe we'll get an all out reveal on Tuesday, but the hope is we see the profile of the truck, or a sneak peek of the quarter panel, something like that. 

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2 hours ago, Biker16 said:

 

This!!

 

It feels more like trust me bro than due diligence

 

To me, the Ford strategy seems incoherent. With every new press release or report, the incoherence gets worse. 

Yes and if this is all about growing new sales, then obviously something like 75% of sales

are expected to come from outside Ford. What attracts those BEV buyers will be different 

to what most existing Ford ICE buyers are even interested in.

 

But then again, are there a bunch of Fotd buyers  who might be open to a BEV pickup

but won’t engage until Ford shows them more than shadows and silhouettes, these

folks probably need to time their leases and financing which might mean they show 

up as sales but a lot later in say 2028…..

 

Hat tip for the date correction Sherminator98

Edited by jpd80
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8 minutes ago, akirby said:


Wow you mean companies that only sell 2 vehicles are talking about new ones?  Ford doesn't need the hype.

 

They've said exactly what they're building, with prices, shown sillouettes, shown the new assembly process and presumably will show even more details on how they're achieving their objectives.

 

Ok, bro.

 

I trust you.

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51 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

So do you have any specific comments about what consumers are actually saying about the design now that it's being shown in clinics? I'm very curious about this. I'd imagine CE1 will look like a shrunken down t3 design to an extent, maybe a bit sportier to appeal to a younger, more vibrant consumer base. 

 

The fact that people don't seem repulsed by it unlike the three row is a good sign at least. That implies it's gonna have a more enticing design that doesn't look like a science experiment. 

Last year, Tesla sold 358,000 odd Ys in the US, it’s very popular but just imagine

instead of that giant piss trough, Musk had kept focus on a mid sized pickup….

That misstep by Tesla now gives an opportunity for Ford…..

Edited by jpd80
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