Joe771476 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 (edited) A lousy $55 billion in market cap? Sad. Have you had enough yet? And we still have people going hungry and homeless? Something is just not right. https://share.google/aFEKGYAmPGDVMnmlv Edited February 26 by Joe771476 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 Capitalism without regulation is the issue - and why the billionaire class rallies against regulations of any type with all their might. Communism and Socialism are not the answer either...there needs to be a balance to find a way to spur the growth of Capitalism while providing the safety net of Social programs to protect those without. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeluxeStang Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 39 minutes ago, twintornados said: Capitalism without regulation is the issue - and why the billionaire class rallies against regulations of any type with all their might. Communism and Socialism are not the answer either...there needs to be a balance to find a way to spur the growth of Capitalism while providing the safety net of Social programs to protect those without. You hit the nail on the head. I feel like not all, and I just want to emphasize that it's not all, but a lot of older people are one side or the other, and that's just not how those of us who are younger think. I've seen a lot of older people think if you're critical of capitalism, it means you support and like communism, and that's just not the case. I can love certain things about capitalism, I believe the free market is the greatest human invention ever when it comes to encouraging innovation and advancement. But that being said, I can still not like certain aspects of late stage capitalism right now. Doesn't mean I suddenly want our nation to become communist, it just means I want to be critical of the system because I want to see it improve. Life isn't black and white, it's shades of grey. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe771476 Posted February 27 Author Share Posted February 27 23 hours ago, twintornados said: Capitalism without regulation is the issue - and why the billionaire class rallies against regulations of any type with all their might. Communism and Socialism are not the answer either...there needs to be a balance to find a way to spur the growth of Capitalism while providing the safety net of Social programs to protect those without. You are 100% correct! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Bezos, Musk and Gates are billionaires because they own millions of shares of companies they founded. Bezos owns 900 million shares of Amazon @ $200/share worth $200B. If you bought 1000 shares in 2002 for $10k you'd have 20,000 shares today worth $4M. Their billions came from stock market investors not customers. And they can't sell that much stock without depressing the stock price. It's not like they're hoarding cash. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 (edited) 12 minutes ago, akirby said: Bezos, Musk and Gates are billionaires because they own millions of shares of companies they founded. Bezos owns 900 million shares of Amazon @ $200/share worth $200B. If you bought 1000 shares in 2002 for $10k you'd have 20,000 shares today worth $4M. Their billions came from stock market investors not customers. And they can't sell that much stock without depressing the stock price. It's not like they're hoarding cash. Only Gates has "The Gates Foundation" that is philanthropic in nature....not a fan of Gates for sure, but Bezos and Musk are still trying to "own the world"....when your business mantra starts with "enhancing investor value" over taking care of your employees and community that supports you, you may want to reconsider your level of greed....despite what fictitious character Gordon Gecko famously said, greed is NOT good. I do not have issue with people earning all they can, but c'mon...find a balance. At what point is enough, enough? Edited February 27 by twintornados Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 34 minutes ago, twintornados said: Only Gates has "The Gates Foundation" that is philanthropic in nature....not a fan of Gates for sure, but Bezos and Musk are still trying to "own the world"....when your business mantra starts with "enhancing investor value" over taking care of your employees and community that supports you, you may want to reconsider your level of greed....despite what fictitious character Gordon Gecko famously said, greed is NOT good. I do not have issue with people earning all they can, but c'mon...find a balance. At what point is enough, enough? To me personally I value the high paying jobs with good benefits that those companies have created. They aren't paying minimum wage. Tesla employs 125k people averaging $80k+ and starting at $19/hr. Microsoft has 228k employees earning an average of close to $200k. Amazon has 350k corporate employees averaging an estimated $180k. That's over 700k jobs and over $120B in annual compensation (and at least $30B in taxes) from just 3 companies. And they all make charitable contributions. BTW - let's say these companies all folded or they fired their high paid CEOs - how exactly does that put more money in your pocket? It doesn't. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texasota Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 (edited) 1 hour ago, twintornados said: but c'mon...find a balance. At what point is enough, enough? For me, that’s where it starts to get worrisome when an individual or regulatory entity starts deciding how much wealth I can or cannot have. That’s happening in California right now and they are chasing out the geese that lay mountains of golden eggs. Edited February 27 by Texasota 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 1 hour ago, akirby said: To me personally I value the high paying jobs with good benefits that those companies have created. They aren't paying minimum wage. Tesla employs 125k people averaging $80k+ and starting at $19/hr. Microsoft has 228k employees earning an average of close to $200k. Amazon has 350k corporate employees averaging an estimated $180k. That's over 700k jobs and over $120B in annual compensation (and at least $30B in taxes) from just 3 companies. And they all make charitable contributions. BTW - let's say these companies all folded or they fired their high paid CEOs - how exactly does that put more money in your pocket? It doesn't. I am more concerned with when a large foreign conglomerate buys it all out and then starts swinging the axe at local production and moves all of the work out to cheaper areas....meanwhile the CEO grabs his profit and golden parachute and bids adieu to all for a nice sandy beach in a remote, quiet haven. It is all about that balance....Billionaires of the last century (Carnegie, Rockefeller, Morgan et al) created their wealth and built a lasting legacy through their philanthropic works ....today's Billionaire class seem more interested in creating more wealth by leveraging the stock market for personal gain....I agree that Socialism on the magnitude that Cortez, Sanders and Mamdani want to foist onto the populace is definitely not the answer as it drives out the exact people they are looking to tax into oblivion but by God, there has to be a balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 (edited) 3 hours ago, Texasota said: For me, that’s where it starts to get worrisome when an individual or regulatory entity starts deciding how much wealth I can or cannot have. That’s happening in California right now and they are chasing out the geese that lay mountains of golden eggs. I don't know why so many believe that taxing billionaires will hurt them. This isn't a fair fight anymore. Corporations are writing governement policy, and carving out exemptions and Pushing privatiztion of There are only 3,000 billionaires in the world, 1,135 in the US. %0.000036 of the World population %.00037 of the US population Collectively, the wealthiest 1% held about $55 trillion in assets in the third quarter of 2025 — roughly equal to the wealth held by the bottom 90% of Americans combined. Taxes on billionaires will never impact you because you will never be a billionaire. History has shown this level of inequality, and "Wealth Hording" resolves itself through reforms or revolution. This isn't Sustainable Edited February 27 by Biker16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texasota Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 8 minutes ago, Biker16 said: I don't know why so many believe that taxing billionaires will hurt them. This isn't a fair fight anymore. Corporations are writing governement policy, and carving out exemptions and Pushing privatiztion of What is happening in California is not an income tax. It is called a wealth tax but what it really is simply wealth confiscation (theft). Entrepreneurs that become fabulously wealthy by building amazing companies are not stealing from you or anyone else. They are creating new wealth, making the economic pie bigger, and creating hundreds of thousands of high paying jobs. We need a lot more of these amazing people. You are fixated on how unfair it is and believe these billionaires are the source of your woes. I don't know what to tell you other than to go out there, work your tail off and build an amazing company like most of these billionaires did. But be forewarned, these guys work 24/7, are incredibly driven, skipped having traditional personal lives and have no work-life balance. Very few people are willing to do that. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 6 minutes ago, Texasota said: What is happening in California is not an income tax. It is called a wealth tax but what it really is simply wealth confiscation (theft). Entrepreneurs that become fabulously wealthy by building amazing companies are not stealing from you or anyone else. They are creating new wealth, making the economic pie bigger, and creating hundreds of thousands of high paying jobs. We need a lot more of these amazing people. You are fixated on how unfair it is and believe these billionaires are the source of your woes. I don't know what to tell you other than to go out there, work your tail off and build an amazing company like most of these billionaires did. But be forewarned, these guys work 24/7, are incredibly driven, skipped having traditional personal lives and have no work-life balance. Very few people are willing to do that. Exactly! Don't be jealous of others' success, be happy for them and appreciate what they bring to the table. In this case, lots and lots of jobs, and the taxes paid by the people in those jobs! I've heard this analogy before. A class takes a test and Mr. Smart Guy gets 100%. Great, he put in the extra effort, worked the extra problems and did well. Johnny, who didn't study much and went out with his buddies the night before, ended up with a 50%, an F. Now, in order to make sure everyone passes, the teacher decided to give Johnny 10% of Mr. Smart Guy's score. Johnny then has a passing grade. Mr. Smart Guy still gets and A, so that should be fine with him, right. His GPA won't look any different. Guess what's going to happen on the next test? Mr. Smart Guy is going to say "F it!" and not study. Let somebody else do the work and get the points that I can share in. This is my alternate scenario. Mr. Smart Guy gets 100%, Johnny fails with a 50%, and poor Jane gets a 50% as well. Jane worked her tail off and did the best she could, but she was sick. She couldn't focus, and just didn't have the energy to keep going. The teacher says "you can give as many points as you want to anybody." So, Mr. Smart Guy gives Jane 10%. It brings her up a level, and keeps her from needing to retake the course. She goes on to Excel and repays the favor 10x over. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 https://www.pacificresearch.org/wealth-taxes-are-economic-failures/ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 You can't tax a company because they pass all taxes to their consumers and we actually pay them. The company still makes the same profit. You can't overtax the wealthy because they'll take their wealth elsewhere and you lose the folks that contribute the majority of income tax. Wealth is not income. If I own 50 rental houses my net worth might be $50M, but my actual net income after maintenance and property taxes might only be $500k and that's what I pay taxes on. I can't pay additional taxes on the $50M house assets unless I sell a house. Same for stocks. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 12 minutes ago, akirby said: You can't tax a company because they pass all taxes to their consumers and we actually pay them. The company still makes the same profit. You can't overtax the wealthy because they'll take their wealth elsewhere and you lose the folks that contribute the majority of income tax. Wealth is not income. If I own 50 rental houses my net worth might be $50M, but my actual net income after maintenance and property taxes might only be $500k and that's what I pay taxes on. I can't pay additional taxes on the $50M house assets unless I sell a house. Same for stocks. These are hard concepts for some people to understand. On the first point about not taxing business, I will give you an example. Missouri is working to eliminate income tax. Personally, I think it's a bad idea. One plan I've heard to recover some of the lost revenue is to tax services. I run a service-based company. I don't sell things, I sell my time. Under this new scenario, I will have to charge tax on the work I do (I've heard as high as 10%). Since I can't just eat 10%, guess what I'm going to do? You guessed it...I'm going to pass that on to my customers. How many of those customers will I lose because they don't like an increase of 10%? Now, my customers are all business, but think about the guy who sprays your house for bugs. Or the guy that works on your car. Who's going to pay those taxes? You guessed it...individuals! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 I am a big fan of Capitalism here - but, with sound, reasonable regulation that protects the environment around us and is minimally taxed through a restrained and fiduciary stable government that in turn provides quality services such and fire and police protections, sanitary public works that employ decently compensated workers and that the children of the employees and owners of the Capitalistic firm can attend a well funded school. As part of all that, those minimal taxes also provide a social net for those that cannot work due to established disability so that they do not become a blight on the community in which they reside. Again, a fine balance that extreme ends of Greed on one side and Socialist dogma on the other that would threaten to tip the whole thing over due to the political whipsaws that grind away from either end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 37 minutes ago, twintornados said: I am a big fan of Capitalism here - but, with sound, reasonable regulation that protects the environment around us and is minimally taxed through a restrained and fiduciary stable government that in turn provides quality services such and fire and police protections, sanitary public works that employ decently compensated workers and that the children of the employees and owners of the Capitalistic firm can attend a well funded school. As part of all that, those minimal taxes also provide a social net for those that cannot work due to established disability so that they do not become a blight on the community in which they reside. Again, a fine balance that extreme ends of Greed on one side and Socialist dogma on the other that would threaten to tip the whole thing over due to the political whipsaws that grind away from either end. Agree but the problem is the number of people that liberals think are unable to work and need disability help is far higher than reality. Too many people in this country are just plain lazy and if you allow them to exist without working they will. I have numerous examples in our own family. I saw one lady that was on disability because she had arthritis in one hand. My neighbor had one arm and worked just fine. Disability is the new welfare. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 5 hours ago, Texasota said: What is happening in California is not an income tax. It is called a wealth tax but what it really is simply wealth confiscation (theft). Entrepreneurs that become fabulously wealthy by building amazing companies are not stealing from you or anyone else. They are creating new wealth, making the economic pie bigger, and creating hundreds of thousands of high paying jobs. We need a lot more of these amazing people. You are fixated on how unfair it is and believe these billionaires are the source of your woes. I don't know what to tell you other than to go out there, work your tail off and build an amazing company like most of these billionaires did. But be forewarned, these guys work 24/7, are incredibly driven, skipped having traditional personal lives and have no work-life balance. Very few people are willing to do that. Wealth taxes are property taxes 90% on the billionaires in this country inherited their wealth from their parents or their parents parents. This isn't jealousy They weren't smarter, wiser, or luckier; they were born into the wealth that they used to become wealthier. Our president is a perfect example of this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biker16 Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 4 hours ago, akirby said: You can't tax a company because they pass all taxes to their consumers and we actually pay them. The company still makes the same profit. You can't overtax the wealthy because they'll take their wealth elsewhere and you lose the folks that contribute the majority of income tax. Corporations, for the record, are taxed on their profits, not their revenue. Remember EBIT? Low tax rates on corporations incentivize corporations become more profitable, often at the expense of investing in themselves. It is no coincidence that wealth inequality was much less when corporate and individual tax rates were higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texasota Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 4 hours ago, akirby said: https://www.pacificresearch.org/wealth-taxes-are-economic-failures/ Unfortunately, many advocates of wealth taxes fully understand the dire economic consequences that will result. But they don't care. It is all about how unfair the situation is and these high wealth individuals must be penalized and their wealth redistributed to others. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texasota Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Biker16 said: 90% of the billionaires in this country inherited their wealth from their parents or their parents parents. This isn't jealousy You can't even get this right. There is not a single county in the world where 90% of the billionaires inherited their wealth. This claim is flat out dishonest and you continue to make up this crap as you go. https://www.datapulse.de/en/billionaire-self-made/ In the USA 27% of billionaires inherited their wealth. But that inherited wealth came from their ancestors that created amazing companies. For many of that 27% they continue to invest and grow the family company resulting in more and more jobs. Ford and Walmart are great examples. Their are many others. You are blinded by your jealousy, indoctrination and anger. Edited February 28 by Texasota 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 I think we all made our points. I'm locking it before it gets nasty. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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