Ford Sales May 2026 - Down 13.6% Overall

[akirby]

3 hours ago, sullynd said:

If just one part of the line restricts the type of vehicle an entire plant can produce how can that not be a priority to address?

 

It's only a priority if they have a product that needs to go there.  I think they planned to close it a couple times and just never pulled the trigger.  I think the cost to remodel was pretty high.

[rmc523]

3 hours ago, Sherminator98 said:

 

Outside of the Ranger that came back, what light duty truck market did they exit?

The one thing Ford has going for it is that they generally have a good reputation for Trucks and the Maverick hopefully isn't saddled with high costs that cut into profitability, which drove Ford's exit from sedans and some CUVs. 

 

I'm referring to Fiesta, Focus, Fusion, Escape, Edge, etc. of "boring" segments they've exited once competition became too tough.

 

Based on track record, they're more likely to exit a small truck (boring) segment than stick with it once competitors really try.....

[Sherminator98]

1 hour ago, rmc523 said:

 

I'm referring to Fiesta, Focus, Fusion, Escape, Edge, etc. of "boring" segments they've exited once competition became too tough.

 

Based on track record, they're more likely to exit a small truck (boring) segment than stick with it once competitors really try.....

 

But all of those products your talking about either had cost or other products that never came about that where supposed to replace them. 

 

That is why I'm assuming that the Maverick will stick around-the profitability issues won't be there as much as those other products and I'm going to assume it will be better because they'll apply what they've learned from CE1 to ICE products. 

[rmc523]

12 minutes ago, Sherminator98 said:

 

But all of those products your talking about either had cost or other products that never came about that where supposed to replace them. 

 

That is why I'm assuming that the Maverick will stick around-the profitability issues won't be there as much as those other products and I'm going to assume it will be better because they'll apply what they've learned from CE1 to ICE products. 

 

Sure, in theory that works........except Ford is great at having a plan until they don't have a plan....that's all I'm saying, just one of those back of the mind sort of "what if" things.

[akirby]

1 hour ago, rmc523 said:

 

I'm referring to Fiesta, Focus, Fusion, Escape, Edge, etc. of "boring" segments they've exited once competition became too tough.

 

Based on track record, they're more likely to exit a small truck (boring) segment than stick with it once competitors really try.....

They exited segments where the competition drove down prices on ubiquitous products to the point they aren't profitable enough to bother thanks to Ford's higher than average platform costs.  It's not just competition.  There is huge competition for F series and they compete just fine because F150s are not anonymous blobs and they've optimized the platform costs over multiple decades.

 

With this truck Ford seems to have the lowest cost outside of the Chinese and it's not a boring blob.  Completely different situation.

[rmc523]

18 hours ago, akirby said:

They exited segments where the competition drove down prices on ubiquitous products to the point they aren't profitable enough to bother thanks to Ford's higher than average platform costs.  It's not just competition.  There is huge competition for F series and they compete just fine because F150s are not anonymous blobs and they've optimized the platform costs over multiple decades.

 

With this truck Ford seems to have the lowest cost outside of the Chinese and it's not a boring blob.  Completely different situation.

 

Ok....but Maverick is on the same "higher than average costs" platform as products that were dropped.

 

Y'all are missing the point.

 

I'm not saying they're for sure dropping Maverick...............I'm just saying that the factors that have led to Ford exiting other segments like Escape (platform, competition, pricing, etc) could come to Maverick if someone like Toyota or Ram or GM enter the segment and start giving Maverick real competition.

 

That said, it's a truck, and they actually seem to care about trucks, so they're likely going to put money into maintaining it, theoretically with learnings from CE1, instead of just dropping it.

[akirby]

2 hours ago, rmc523 said:

Ok....but Maverick is on the same "higher than average costs" platform as products that were dropped.

Ok let's try this one more time.  Escape had 7 or 8 competitors and nothing unique which kept prices low.

 

Maverick has virtually no direct competitors AND it has emotional appeal which both add up to much higher ATPs.  Same fir Bronco Sport.
 

You can make decent profit on a high cost platform if you can get volume without huge price cuts.

You can make decent profit on a cheap platform even if you are in a price war.

[akirby]

2 hours ago, rmc523 said:

I'm just saying that the factors that have led to Ford exiting other segments like Escape (platform, competition, pricing, etc) could come to Maverick if someone like Toyota or Ram or GM enter the segment and start giving Maverick real competition.

Which is exactly why they're applying the ce1 cost savings to all the other platforms.

[Sherminator98]

If anything, the post 2020 Escape was the start of trying to right the ship with costs and that extended to the Bronco Sport and Maverick. The former vehicles have been picked on because of their interior materials though, but seemed to be not as much of a sticking point with the Maverick because of its original price. 
 

The other factor at play here, is why wouldn’t Ford fold the next gen Maverick into the CE1 platform, if it is successful? The size and pricing makes sense for a smaller vehicle, just like the Escape is coming back on the CE1 platform in a few years. 

[Trader 10]

4 minutes ago, Sherminator98 said:

If anything, the post 2020 Escape was the start of trying to right the ship with costs and that extended to the Bronco Sport and Maverick. The former vehicles have been picked on because of their interior materials though, but seemed to be not as much of a sticking point with the Maverick because of its original price. 
 

The other factor at play here, is why wouldn’t Ford fold the next gen Maverick into the CE1 platform, if it is successful? The size and pricing makes sense for a smaller vehicle, just like the Escape is coming back on the CE1 platform in a few years. 

Because an EV Maverick would sell at less than half the rate as the current model and would cannibalize CE1 sales. 

[Texasota]

5 minutes ago, Trader 10 said:

Because an EV Maverick would sell at less than half the rate as the current model and would cannibalize CE1 sales. 

Incorporating CE1 elements into the next gen Maverick doesn’t mean it has to be an EV. It can be pure ICE or hybrid.

[akirby]

6 minutes ago, Texasota said:

Incorporating CE1 elements into the next gen Maverick doesn’t mean it has to be an EV. It can be pure ICE or hybrid.

Just changing the wiring and electronics would be huge.

[Trader 10]

50 minutes ago, Texasota said:

Incorporating CE1 elements into the next gen Maverick doesn’t mean it has to be an EV. It can be pure ICE or hybrid.

Yes but the post I was replying to suggested “folding the next gen Maverick into the CE1 platform”. 

[Sherminator98]

2 hours ago, Trader 10 said:

Because an EV Maverick would sell at less than half the rate as the current model and would cannibalize CE1 sales. 

 

That remains to be seen-the big issue (outside of charging/Range with some people) with EVs is price. 

 

The problem is that the CE1 pickup is expected to be around 30K

 

The Maverick starts at $27/28K depending on what engine you get in it and from what I can see of products on the lot the average price is well over the 30K. 

 

At what point does it make sense to keep the Maverick around if the CE1 is successful? Given the changes done to engineering alone on the CE1, it will be a far more profitable product then the Maverick.

 

But the biggest unknown is how well the market accepts and buys the CE1.

 

if it is successful, I don't see a real reason to keep the Maverick around as an ICE product, since it would benefit Ford to move it to what apparently would be a more profitable CE1 platform structure. 

[rmc523]

2 hours ago, akirby said:

Ok let's try this one more time.  Escape had 7 or 8 competitors and nothing unique which kept prices low.

 

Maverick has virtually no direct competitors AND it has emotional appeal which both add up to much higher ATPs.  Same fir Bronco Sport.
 

You can make decent profit on a high cost platform if you can get volume without huge price cuts.

You can make decent profit on a cheap platform even if you are in a price war.

 

5 hours ago, rmc523 said:

I'm not saying they're for sure dropping Maverick...............I'm just saying that the factors that have led to Ford exiting other segments like Escape (platform, competition, pricing, etc) could come to Maverick if someone like Toyota or Ram or GM enter the segment and start giving Maverick real competition.

 

 

I'll move on after this.....

 

I said several times if or when competitors enter/flood the market, not the market right this second.

[rmc523]

1 minute ago, Sherminator98 said:

 

That remains to be seen-the big issue (outside of charging/Range with some people) with EVs is price. 

 

The problem is that the CE1 pickup is expected to be around 30K

 

The Maverick starts at $27/28K depending on what engine you get in it and from what I can see of products on the lot the average price is well over the 30K. 

 

At what point does it make sense to keep the Maverick around if the CE1 is successful? Given the changes done to engineering alone on the CE1, it will be a far more profitable product then the Maverick.

 

But the biggest unknown is how well the market accepts and buys the CE1.

 

if it is successful, I don't see a real reason to keep the Maverick around as an ICE product, since it would benefit Ford to move it to what apparently would be a more profitable CE1 platform structure. 

 

I think they need to have a dual track approach for at least another Maverick generation and let the market decide which direction to go rather than forcing the issue.

 

Apply CE1 learnings to Maverick/C2 for the 2nd gen ICE Maverick, and then if CE1 takes off, while Maverick contracts, then make that move to EV only after the 2nd gen.

 

Just my thoughts.....we've seen how full EV is risky in the marketplace, why risk one of your recent successes on forcing the market that may or may not be there?

[Trader 10]

6 minutes ago, Sherminator98 said:

 

That remains to be seen-the big issue (outside of charging/Range with some people) with EVs is price. 

 

The problem is that the CE1 pickup is expected to be around 30K

 

The Maverick starts at $27/28K depending on what engine you get in it and from what I can see of products on the lot the average price is well over the 30K. 

 

At what point does it make sense to keep the Maverick around if the CE1 is successful? Given the changes done to engineering alone on the CE1, it will be a far more profitable product then the Maverick.

 

But the biggest unknown is how well the market accepts and buys the CE1.

 

if it is successful, I don't see a real reason to keep the Maverick around as an ICE product, since it would benefit Ford to move it to what apparently would be a more profitable CE1 platform structure. 

CE1 will supposedly start at $30k. If you want AWD and better range, which most likely will, you’re likely looking at 35 to 40k. Ford is hoping that they can make a profit on CE1 models, no claim has been made that I’m aware of that it will be more profitable than ICE models. Plus, as has been mentioned it should be relatively easy for Ford to use some of the cost savings methods learned in developing CE1 on ICE models. 

[Sherminator98]

3 minutes ago, Trader 10 said:

CE1 will supposedly start at $30k. If you want AWD and better range, which most likely will, you’re likely looking at 35 to 40k. Ford is hoping that they can make a profit on CE1 models, no claim has been made that I’m aware of that it will be more profitable than ICE models. Plus, as has been mentioned it should be relatively easy for Ford to use some of the cost savings methods learned in developing CE1 on ICE models. 

 

Ford mentioned that they will turn a profit on EV products after 12 months in production-I'm trying to find a link

 

As for ICE products-there is only certain amount of cost savings they can get out of the platform. EVs are simpler but currently the battery costs are the big issue with affordability. 

[akirby]

34 minutes ago, Sherminator98 said:

At what point does it make sense to keep the Maverick around if the CE1 is successful?

CE1 will not cannibalize Maverick or vice versa.  Two completely different markets.  Both can easily sell 150k.

 

You seem to think that buyers don't care if it's EV or not, but they do and it's not due to price.  Majority of buyers don't want EVs yet.

[akirby]

15 minutes ago, Sherminator98 said:

As for ICE products-there is only certain amount of cost savings they can get out of the platform

Vertical integration and simplification - especially electrical - can save thousands on existing platforms. even more if it's a brand new platform.

[Sherminator98]

9 minutes ago, akirby said:

You seem to think that buyers don't care if it's EV or not, but they do and it's not due to price.  Majority of buyers don't want EVs yet.

 

If the CE1 is successful, why wouldn't a Maverick EV based on it wouldn't be at a slightly cheaper price point?

 

At some point the band aid has to come off...I get why people wouldn't want an EV but IMO the vast majority of the time it is because people don't want to change their habits or do something different, just because it is different. 

If a similar ICE and EV that can get 300 miles or so of range are identically price, people are going to think really hard about that one. Price is the biggest friction point with EVs and given how much gas is, it might make it easier for people to move that way. 

 

Its not going to happen overnight, but its very possible to happen before end of next decade. 

[Sherminator98]

12 minutes ago, akirby said:

Vertical integration and simplification - especially electrical - can save thousands on existing platforms. even more if it's a brand new platform.

You can spend millions on redoing the electrical subsystem on the C1 for example, but wouldn't be better just to move everything to CE1 at some point instead? 

 

As for vertical integration, is Ford going to bring back Visteon (oh wait they never went away, maybe not the greatest example LOL) next? 

[Texasota]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

CE1 will not cannibalize Maverick or vice versa.  Two completely different markets.  Both can easily sell 150k.

 

You seem to think that buyers don't care if it's EV or not, but they do and it's not due to price.  Majority of buyers don't want EVs yet.

Spot on. I've got nothing against EVs and I'm loving this Skunk Truck so far. But an EV just does not work for our snowbird lifestyle at this point in time (hybrids do). I could see me replacing my Ranger with a Skunk Truck when I'm no longer towing a boat.

[Texasota]

1 hour ago, Sherminator98 said:

At some point the band aid has to come off...I get why people wouldn't want an EV but IMO the vast majority of the time it is because people don't want to change their habits or do something different, just because it is different.

I think that is true for some percentage, but not the vast majority. For many (like me) it is just not ready for our lifestyle. But, that time is coming down the road and when it gets here I'll gladly switch. For now, it has nothing to do with not being willing to accept change.

Edited June 11 by Texasota

[akirby]

4 hours ago, Sherminator98 said:

 

If the CE1 is successful, why wouldn't a Maverick EV based on it wouldn't be at a slightly cheaper price point?

 

At some point the band aid has to come off...I get why people wouldn't want an EV but IMO the vast majority of the time it is because people don't want to change their habits or do something different, just because it is different. 

If a similar ICE and EV that can get 300 miles or so of range are identically price, people are going to think really hard about that one. Price is the biggest friction point with EVs and given how much gas is, it might make it easier for people to move that way. 

 

Its not going to happen overnight, but its very possible to happen before end of next decade. 

Until I can get 350 miles of range anywhere in the country in 15 minutes guaranteed I'm not interested as a family vehicle for trips.   At my age convenience is more important and I don't care what gas cost.  I would gladly buy an EV for local driving.