rmc523 Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 Lincoln Previously Deemed G-Wagon Rival A 'Bad Fit' For Brand's Identify As Ford Authority reported back in February, Lincoln is working on a new body-on-frame vehicle that will utilize the same T6 platform as the Ford Bronco, Ford Ranger, and Ford Everest. It'll reportedly be a two-row SUV with softer lines than the Bronco, designed to compete with the Land Rover Range Rover and Mercedes-Benz G-Class, with a planned launch sometime around 2029-2030. However, it seems as if Lincoln brass previously shot down the idea of creating this very same type of vehicle. According to Automotive News, a group of Lincoln dealers were shown a boxy-looking SUV at a meeting roughly four years ago, though it was covered by a tarp that wasn't removed to fully reveal what was underneath. The luxury brand billed it as a future G-Wagon rival at the time, which would make sense given the tremendous success that particular model has enjoyed for decades to this point. However, it was unclear if Lincoln intended this showing to be a preview of a future product or just a design exercise of sorts. Lincoln brass reportedly never pursued the idea of making that boxy, more off-road-focused SUV a reality, however, as executives didn't feel that it was a good fit for the brand's "quiet flight" identity at the time. Now, it seems as if Lincoln is heading in a very different direction following the appointment of Joaquin Nuño-Whelan as its new CEO a few months ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTL2017 Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 (edited) I do wonder what that Lincoln G wagon competitor would’ve looked like. Would it have been like the Bronco but just a bit nicer? Would it have a removable roof? I have a feeling Ford wasn’t willing to invest in a product that probably wasn’t really intended for luxury at all. Assuming that this Lincoln Bronco is still happening, I’m curious to see how it would differ from the next Bronco. Edited June 9 by JTL2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 I have high hopes for the Lincoln Bronco as it may be a perfect candidate to replace the wife's Mach E in that '29/'30 timeframe. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseodiaga4 Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 4 hours ago, rmc523 said: Lincoln Previously Deemed G-Wagon Rival A 'Bad Fit' For Brand's Identify As Ford Authority reported back in February, Lincoln is working on a new body-on-frame vehicle that will utilize the same T6 platform as the Ford Bronco, Ford Ranger, and Ford Everest. It'll reportedly be a two-row SUV with softer lines than the Bronco, designed to compete with the Land Rover Range Rover and Mercedes-Benz G-Class, with a planned launch sometime around 2029-2030. However, it seems as if Lincoln brass previously shot down the idea of creating this very same type of vehicle. According to Automotive News, a group of Lincoln dealers were shown a boxy-looking SUV at a meeting roughly four years ago, though it was covered by a tarp that wasn't removed to fully reveal what was underneath. The luxury brand billed it as a future G-Wagon rival at the time, which would make sense given the tremendous success that particular model has enjoyed for decades to this point. However, it was unclear if Lincoln intended this showing to be a preview of a future product or just a design exercise of sorts. Lincoln brass reportedly never pursued the idea of making that boxy, more off-road-focused SUV a reality, however, as executives didn't feel that it was a good fit for the brand's "quiet flight" identity at the time. Now, it seems as if Lincoln is heading in a very different direction following the appointment of Joaquin Nuño-Whelan as its new CEO a few months ago. 4 hours ago, rmc523 said: Lincoln Previously Deemed G-Wagon Rival A 'Bad Fit' For Brand's Identify Lincoln brass reportedly never pursued the idea of making that boxy, more off-road-focused SUV a reality, however, as executives didn't feel that it was a good fit for the brand's "quiet flight" identity at the time. I think it is a bit weird to read this, they spoke a lot about this quiet flight identity but they haven't really embraced it, quiet flight translates to an effortless and good/soft ride quality but the Navigator (their most luxurious offering) loses in this category to their competition (and a Jeep) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Handler Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 It needs to be a G-Wagon competitor/halo model. Otherwise, it will be a body-on-frame Aviator which will just eat into the already-existing Aviator's sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Handler Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 1 hour ago, JTL2017 said: I do wonder what that Lincoln G wagon competitor would’ve looked like. Would it have been like the Bronco but just a bit nicer? Would it have a removable roof? I have a feeling Ford wasn’t willing to invest in a product that probably wasn’t really intended for luxury at all. Assuming that this Lincoln Bronco is still happening, I’m curious to see how it would differ from the next Bronco. A removable top would be nice considering that's where competition is lacking. Interestingly, Ford claims the improvements they've made regarding NVH make the Bronco competitive with fixed roof competitors like the GX and Defender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted June 9 Author Share Posted June 9 1 hour ago, JTL2017 said: I do wonder what that Lincoln G wagon competitor would’ve looked like. Would it have been like the Bronco but just a bit nicer? Would it have a removable roof? I have a feeling Ford wasn’t willing to invest in a product that probably wasn’t really intended for luxury at all. Assuming that this Lincoln Bronco is still happening, I’m curious to see how it would differ from the next Bronco. I read the article differently - that at the time, they didn't feel it was a fit, but now they're moving forward with it.....aka we're getting it (though presumably the design has been modified since). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordmantpw Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 I don't think a Lincoln Bronco needs a removable top. Make it a standard top (or the sliding glass roof we've seen the patent for) for a quieter ride and more luxurious feel. Having the nicer materials inside somewhat requires the top to be non-removable. Basically, a Lincoln Bronco needs to look the part of a hard-core off-roader because nobody (well, likely 0.01% of buyers) is actually going to take it off-road or remove the top or the doors. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseodiaga4 Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 IMO they should try more like a Lexus GX more than a G-class, Lincoln is not there to compete with the Mercedes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 1 hour ago, joseodiaga4 said: IMO they should try more like a Lexus GX more than a G-class, Lincoln is not there to compete with the Mercedes You must not have seen a newer Mercedes. Nothing to write home about. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazerdude20 Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 I agree it should be more Lexus GX than G Wagon. The G Wagon is its own market at this point, driven almost entirely by its brash luxury image. I just don’t see a Lincoln version doing well. A reasonably capable body on frame luxury SUV like the GX could work though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseodiaga4 Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 1 hour ago, akirby said: You must not have seen a newer Mercedes. Nothing to write home about. agree, but the G-class is a class on its own Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTL2017 Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 (edited) I think a Lincoln G wagon could work, but, of course, it will have to be really well executed. I don't think the GX is something Lincoln wants to target. I can totally see the Lincoln with two rows, and really nice yet rugged design inside with a price matching the Navigator. A true flagship that won't step on the bronco in price point while also not approaching the 150 grand starting price of the G-wagon. Edited June 9 by JTL2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 19 minutes ago, joseodiaga4 said: agree, but the G-class is a class on its own For the Mercedes snobs, sure. But Ford knows more about off road looks and performance and Lincoln is just as luxurious the last decade or so. No reason to think they can't compete. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausrutherford Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 I believe the other boxy Lincoln that was shown to the dealers several years ago was the Rivian-based Lincoln that was planned, not Bronco-based. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-dubz Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 I’d really like to see a Lincoln version of the Ineos Grenadier. It has the classic, boxy, off roader style like the G Wagon and Defender, but at a more reasonable price. I think it needs a fixed roof, but something like the grenadiers roof could work as well. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted June 10 Author Share Posted June 10 16 hours ago, fordmantpw said: I don't think a Lincoln Bronco needs a removable top. Make it a standard top (or the sliding glass roof we've seen the patent for) for a quieter ride and more luxurious feel. Having the nicer materials inside somewhat requires the top to be non-removable. Basically, a Lincoln Bronco needs to look the part of a hard-core off-roader because nobody (well, likely 0.01% of buyers) is actually going to take it off-road or remove the top or the doors. I'd agree, I don't see it necessary to offer a removable roof for the Lincoln model. A large opening roof would be enough. 10 hours ago, T-dubz said: I’d really like to see a Lincoln version of the Ineos Grenadier. It has the classic, boxy, off roader style like the G Wagon and Defender, but at a more reasonable price. I think it needs a fixed roof, but something like the grenadiers roof could work as well. Nah, that thing isn't pretty to look at, IMO. They can do better.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motorpsychology Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 40 minutes ago, rmc523 said: I'd agree, I don't see it necessary to offer a removable roof for the Lincoln model. A large opening roof would be enough. Nah, that thing isn't pretty to look at, IMO. They can do better.... Isn't coyote ugly part of the charm? people don't buy G-Wagens because they are beautiful (well maybe in an english Bulldog sort of way), they buy them to make a statement. "I have Snap On tools in my kitchen junk drawer and I'm more offroader-er than you." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted June 10 Author Share Posted June 10 3 hours ago, Motorpsychology said: Isn't coyote ugly part of the charm? people don't buy G-Wagens because they are beautiful (well maybe in an english Bulldog sort of way), they buy them to make a statement. "I have Snap On tools in my kitchen junk drawer and I'm more offroader-er than you." They can make it good looking while still having the more offroad look. They can't make it a G-wagen clone, that will fail. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseodiaga4 Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 (edited) 17 hours ago, akirby said: For the Mercedes snobs, sure. But Ford knows more about off road looks and performance and Lincoln is just as luxurious the last decade or so. No reason to think they can't compete. Mm not so sure about that. Lincoln has improved a lot but I doubt the general public believes it is just as luxurious as Mercedes. They can’t even make the Navigator compete with the Escalade (in both features and sales), I don’t think they could do it with a G-class or G63 A G-class clone will fail Edited June 10 by joseodiaga4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted June 10 Author Share Posted June 10 9 minutes ago, joseodiaga4 said: Mm not so sure about that. Lincoln has improved a lot but I doubt the general public believes it is just as luxurious as Mercedes. They can’t even make the Navigator compete with the Escalade (in both features and sales), I don’t think they could do it with a G-class or G63 I'd agree that Lincoln isn't likely at those levels perception wise, even if it deserves more. They also should put more effort into adding features that competitors have, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Handler Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 It simply needs to be a halo model for Lincoln that can gin up some much-needed excitement for the brand. I wouldn't take the G-Class competitor description too literally. It will most likely be its own thing with no equal, direct competitor. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzcat Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 Lincoln is not going to command $200K for its SUV the way Mercedes G wagen does. But $80-120K range is totally reasonable target and well within the reach of its target buyers. These are the competitive entries: Land Rover Defender, Rivian R1, Scout Traveler, Lexus GX, INEOS Grenadier, Mercedes baby G, TBD Audi based on Scout, TBD Genesis (production version of X Gran Equator concept), TBD BMW (replacement for the XM) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted June 11 Author Share Posted June 11 16 hours ago, The Handler said: It simply needs to be a halo model for Lincoln that can gin up some much-needed excitement for the brand. I wouldn't take the G-Class competitor description too literally. It will most likely be its own thing with no equal, direct competitor. 11 hours ago, bzcat said: Lincoln is not going to command $200K for its SUV the way Mercedes G wagen does. But $80-120K range is totally reasonable target and well within the reach of its target buyers. These are the competitive entries: Land Rover Defender, Rivian R1, Scout Traveler, Lexus GX, INEOS Grenadier, Mercedes baby G, TBD Audi based on Scout, TBD Genesis (production version of X Gran Equator concept), TBD BMW (replacement for the XM) Yes, I think the G-wagen references are solely there for comparison of general shape, and not implying it's going to be some ultra high priced model. I'm also thinking along the lines of Defender, GX, R1, etc. and am envisioning it slotting between Nautilus and Aviator size wise with boxy styling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzymoomoo Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 20 hours ago, rmc523 said: They can make it good looking while still having the more offroad look. They can't make it a G-wagen clone, that will fail. Absolutely. But, Mercedes obviously has a winning formula there so probably best to use that as a starting point and go from there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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