Mach-e won't transition to the skunkworks platform

[Sherminator98]

52 minutes ago, akirby said:

They don't have the resources to do that and the other 3-4 vehicles at the same time, and those cheaper vehicles will sell better than a more expensive performance EV.   The ICE mustang crossover should sell better and should be more profitable and they can add an EV down the road.  It's just timing and priorities.

 

In the grand scheme of things, doing a Mach E style crossover along with an Escape EV would be cheaper then doing a bespoke Mustang CUV based on who knows what at this point. 

 

Not sure how well the S650 or future variants would be able to handle an AWD 

 

So I'd put the Mustang Crossover as a big doubt vs say the Sedan. 

[ExplorerDude]

The MME is supposed to get a refresh for MY27 but I don’t know the status of whether that is still happening or if it was canceled. Refreshed front and rear end, tweaked dash and a significantly improved battery with a longer range. I’d give the current MME until 2030ish at the latest.

 

The 2-row RWD CD6 based “replacement” is still coming.

[DeluxeStang]

1 hour ago, akirby said:

They don't have the resources to do that and the other 3-4 vehicles at the same time, and those cheaper vehicles will sell better than a more expensive performance EV.   The ICE mustang crossover should sell better and should be more profitable and they can add an EV down the road.  It's just timing and priorities.

I get that, but I'm just questioning why they can't rethink the concept of the mach-e, and apply it to CE1 to make it one of those 3 or 4 new EVs you're mentioning. I'm not saying put mach-e on CE1 but still charge 50 grand for it. I'm saying I feel like an attractive sporty suv on CE1 that was a lot more affordable would be a much more compelling product.

 

We know the direction they're taking with CE1 isn't just smaller vehicles, which we've known for some time, but it's passion products. It's stuff that's a little sleeker and less boxy, looking at the truck, it's lower and more car like than a conventional truck. So it just feels like a sporty, low slung crossover, with softer, sleeker lines is a perfect fit with those sort of requirements. Yet it's not happening. 

[DeluxeStang]

1 hour ago, Sherminator98 said:

 

In the grand scheme of things, doing a Mach E style crossover along with an Escape EV would be cheaper then doing a bespoke Mustang CUV based on who knows what at this point. 

 

Not sure how well the S650 or future variants would be able to handle an AWD 

 

So I'd put the Mustang Crossover as a big doubt vs say the Sedan. 

Unless, hear me out, the plan is to have like an evolved, tweaked version of cd6 that's more flexible and capable, and that becomes the basis for all of Ford's ICE RWD and AWD unibody products. You could potentially build a mustang sedan, coupe, and crossover all on the same platform, making them all more profitable, but also potentially being able to reduce prices for consumers. I just hope that doesn't make said products heavy or numb to drive. 

[DeluxeStang]

55 minutes ago, ExplorerDude said:

The MME is supposed to get a refresh for MY27 but I don’t know the status of whether that is still happening or if it was canceled. Refreshed front and rear end, tweaked dash and a significantly improved battery with a longer range. I’d give the current MME until 2030ish at the latest.

 

The 2-row RWD CD6 based “replacement” is still coming.

Well that's something at least. If it's anything like the mach-e when it first came out, the refreshes could hint at where they plan to go with mustang styling for the coupe. How much do you know about the cd6 replacement out of curiosity? Styling, powertrains, etc?

[twintornados]

What will go into Cuautitlán Stamping and Assembly Plant produces this EV and Irapuato Electric Powertrain Center makes the powertrains for it....what will become of those plants? Will they be transitioned to the UEV / CE1 chassis? Will an uprated C2 Global chassis vehicle go in? T6 production?  

[morgan20]

2 hours ago, Sherminator98 said:

I think Ford is looking at the CE1 not possibly performing as well as they hoped, due to the way the market is.

 

The market is clamoring for EV that's both affordable (or at least achieves pricing parity with a similar gasoline or diesel powered vehicle) and appealing in terms of style, performance, and capability.

 

CE1/UEV products are expected to deliver on all of these measures. Additionally, the newfangled processes developed by the skunkworks for CE1/UEV should enable Ford to address its cost control issues and eventually build these products profitably.

 

Where did you hear that Ford doesn't expect to meet its goals with CE1? The big shots including Jimbo said CE1 products and processes represent an Apollo style mission with little margin for error. If they really expect CE1 not possibly performing as well as they hoped, Ford is in serious trouble.

[akirby]

1 hour ago, Sherminator98 said:

 

In the grand scheme of things, doing a Mach E style crossover along with an Escape EV would be cheaper then doing a bespoke Mustang CUV based on who knows what at this point. 

 

Not sure how well the S650 or future variants would be able to handle an AWD 

 

So I'd put the Mustang Crossover as a big doubt vs say the Sedan. 

Except you're not considering resources.   The EV resources are tied up both from a design and engineering and factory standpoint on the cheaper stuff that will sell far better.   They have more resources to do the ICE version and it will sell far better and share a lot with either T6/cd6/s650 depending on which way they go.  
 

Sedan should come first and is easier but I expect the crossover to be right behind it.

[akirby]

49 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

I feel like an attractive sporty suv on CE1 that was a lot more affordable would be a much more compelling product.

Well that's probably what they're doing but that's more Escape than Mustang.

[AGR]

If my memory isn't faulty, a profile of a CUV coupe was shown/leaked as part of CE1's vehicle lineup. Perhaps that will be the next generation Capri that will also be sold here.

 

(once the contract with VW runs out, I expect the MEB pair to be replaced with CE1 products)

Edited June 20 by AGR

[Zestyg]

3 hours ago, Sherminator98 said:

I think Ford is looking at the CE1 not possibly performing as well as they hoped, due to the way the market is.

Their performance expectations seem really modest. Either way I think the reason to not put the MME on UEV is less this possibility and more that the platform is seeking volume products. The MME’s sporty image both raises its floor and lowers its ceiling IMO. It’s a more specialized offering, it can’t really do 100k/yr and can’t be a priority over the CE1 Escape that could do that. If UEV is working out after the crossover, then things like a CE1 Focus or CE1 Edge/Explorer should be higher priorities. At that point you are running LAP at capacity and putting MME on CE1 carries a higher price tag due to having to retool another factory. If UEV isn’t working out then it’s tough to say anything about what Ford actually does about electric.

 

Maybe there is some middle case where it makes sense to use limited LAP capacity on a specialized offering like the MME, but most likely they either keep it crawling along just sprucing up the platform like its ICE brother, or they axe it after ~2030 for the CD6 thing ExplorerDude mentioned.

[morgan20]

3 hours ago, ExplorerDude said:

The MME is supposed to get a refresh for MY27 but I don’t know the status of whether that is still happening or if it was canceled.

If the refresh ain’t happenin’ for MY27, will Ford at least add a native NACS port for  MME that model year?

[twintornados]

16 minutes ago, morgan20 said:

If the refresh ain’t happenin’ for MY27, will Ford at least add a native NACS port for  MME that model year?

 

Would also be nice if Ford made a kit available to convert the CCS plug to NACS for previous models....dealer installed of course. 

[Sherminator98]

3 hours ago, akirby said:

Except you're not considering resources.   The EV resources are tied up both from a design and engineering and factory standpoint on the cheaper stuff that will sell far better.   They have more resources to do the ICE version and it will sell far better and share a lot with either T6/cd6/s650 depending on which way they go.  
 

Sedan should come first and is easier but I expect the crossover to be right behind it.

 

No I was

 

I'm looking at it like this:

A CE1 MME would be nothing more then CE1 Escape with a new tophat and improved performance, much how the current one is a C1 turned into an EV

 

A Mustang Crossover on CD6 or S650 or any other platform is going to require a significant amount of engineering, more so then the CE1, because ICE variants are just about going to require a V8 in them in some shape or form to keep the Mustang faithful from bringing out the pitch forks, nor can I see Ford making the Explorer look like a Mustang either. Its possible, but I'm also not sure its not worth selling say a 100K Mustang crossovers on CD6 either. I'm not completely sold on that whole possible boondoggle-I can see a sedan but not a crossover. 

[akirby]

1 hour ago, ExplorerDude said:

 

 

The 2-row RWD CD6 based “replacement” is still coming.

So basically we'll be getting the cd6 edge replacement that was started then stopped, but with Mustang styling and performance.  Edge ST was very popular.  

[akirby]

12 minutes ago, Sherminator98 said:

 

No I was

 

I'm looking at it like this:

A CE1 MME would be nothing more then CE1 Escape with a new tophat and improved performance, much how the current one is a C1 turned into an EV

 

A Mustang Crossover on CD6 or S650 or any other platform is going to require a significant amount of engineering, more so then the CE1, because ICE variants are just about going to require a V8 in them in some shape or form to keep the Mustang faithful from bringing out the pitch forks, nor can I see Ford making the Explorer look like a Mustang either. Its possible, but I'm also not sure its not worth selling say a 100K Mustang crossovers on CD6 either. I'm not completely sold on that whole possible boondoggle-I can see a sedan but not a crossover. 

So you're ignoring the insider telling you otherwise.  Got it.

 

The difference in CE1 escape and new MME is size, cost and volume.  Makes no sense to skip a smaller cheaper higher volume escape to do a bigger, higher cost mustang ev that would sell half as much or even less.  The whole point of ce1 was smaller and cheaper.

[Zestyg]

27 minutes ago, akirby said:

So you're ignoring the insider telling you otherwise.  Got it.

 

The difference in CE1 escape and new MME is size, cost and volume.  Makes no sense to skip a smaller cheaper higher volume escape to do a bigger, higher cost mustang ev that would sell half as much or even less.  The whole point of ce1 was smaller and cheaper.

(Not disagreeing with you, more disagreeing with Sherm) I’m skeptical that the CE1 Escape and the MME will actually be that similar. If it is what was under that tarp, it will be a lot more squared off and muscular like a Dodge Charger (or more directly, the skunk truck) rather than smooth and sporty looking like the MME. 

Edited June 20 by Zestyg

[akirby]

1 hour ago, Zestyg said:

If it is what was under that tarp, it will be a lot more squared off and muscular like a Dodge Charger (or more directly, the skunk truck) rather than smooth and sporty looking like the MME. 

As it should be.  Totally different demographic and competition.

[HotRunrGuy]

4 hours ago, akirby said:

 

The difference in CE1 escape and new MME is size, cost and volume.  Makes no sense to skip a smaller cheaper higher volume escape to do a bigger, higher cost mustang ev that would sell half as much or even less.  The whole point of ce1 was smaller and cheaper.

 

You know, it wasn't all that long ago that you were a proponent of higher ATP's, at the expense of volume.

 

Retirement must be good for you.  HRG

[DeluxeStang]

8 hours ago, AGR said:

If my memory isn't faulty, a profile of a CUV coupe was shown/leaked as part of CE1's vehicle lineup. Perhaps that will be the next generation Capri that will also be sold here.

 

(once the contract with VW runs out, I expect the MEB pair to be replaced with CE1 products)

I'd love that, but I'm highly skeptical. If Ford decides to do that, it would be an excellent halo model for the platform. But it would have to be a vehicle that came along after the platform was optimized for cost so it could be profitable, even with low volume. 

 

Edit (Sorry, I thought you said coupe, but my brain completely skipped over the CUV part of your comment for some reason, my apologies. My head has been all over the place since my father passed on Wednesday, just can't focus). 

Edited June 21 by DeluxeStang

[Texasota]

9 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:

Unless, hear me out, the plan is to have like an evolved, tweaked version of cd6 that's more flexible and capable, and that becomes the basis for all of Ford's ICE RWD and AWD unibody products. You could potentially build a mustang sedan, coupe, and crossover all on the same platform, making them all more profitable, but also potentially being able to reduce prices for consumers. I just hope that doesn't make said products heavy or numb to drive. 

This could be what is happening. ExplorerDude told us a while back that CD6 wasn’t disappearing and in fact it’s utilization would be expanded.

[DeluxeStang]

.

Edited June 21 by DeluxeStang

[akirby]

49 minutes ago, HotRunrGuy said:

 

You know, it wasn't all that long ago that you were a proponent of higher ATP's, at the expense of volume.

 

Retirement must be good for you.  HRG

All things equal higher ATPs and slightly less volume is good.  Especially when lower ATPs represent little to no profit.

 

The market has spoken - high ATP EVs are not selling and the ones that are still lose money whereas ce1 products should be profitable at lower ATPs.  Still leaves room for higher priced vehicles.

[Sherminator98]

5 hours ago, akirby said:

So you're ignoring the insider telling you otherwise.  Got it.

 

The difference in CE1 escape and new MME is size, cost and volume.  Makes no sense to skip a smaller cheaper higher volume escape to do a bigger, higher cost mustang ev that would sell half as much or even less.  The whole point of ce1 was smaller and cheaper.

Where did I say that the CE1 MME would be first before CE1 Escape?!!

 

I just have my doubts that ford is going to actually pull the trigger on a Mustang ICE crossover, given their track record with things and we’ve been talking about a Mustang Sedan for over 10 years now. 

[Texasota]

18 minutes ago, Texasota said:

This could be what is happening. ExplorerDude told us a while back that CD6 wasn’t disappearing and in fact it’s utilization would be expanded.

Found the post:  https://blueovalforums.com/forums/index.php?/topic/78700-lincoln-to-get-bronco-based-range-rover-fighter/page/4/#comment-1251034