Sherminator98 Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 5 hours ago, rmc523 said: Essentially, sounds like they're soldiering on with the same platform, but somehow stretching it for a sedan, which was supposedly not doable before... I know it's long paid for, but you'd think they'd want to update the platform at some point... So something to consider- making the D2C into a sedan wouldn’t be that “hard” to do, but it would cost a significant amount of money I’m assuming since it would need to be retested for crash standards due to the major changes in the passenger cell with the two additional doors. It would also help pay for any major updates for the coupe. I have no idea how CD6 would work as a coupe or even a sedan, but that would be the smart way of doing things, but I’d also guess that would take a significant amount of time vs going the D2C sedan route. I’d venture to guess that a D2C sedan could come in 2029, but anything CD6 would be post 2030. either way we have at least 36-48 months or longer before you can actually buy one and give it Fords history with products, they change their plans 2-3x times before that 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeluxeStang Posted June 22 Author Share Posted June 22 3 hours ago, akirby said: The long term plan for a new merged platform probably took more resources than are currently available and the viability of the sedan is somewhat unknown. So get the sedan and crossover out the door quickly (relatively speaking) then move everything to a new platform which might involve updating Flat Rock. Maybe like a case of getting the sedan and crossover out at a lower cost, seeing how well they do, and if they sell well, justifying moving the coupe, crossover, and sedan to a shared platform at some point in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 16 hours ago, Sherminator98 said: So something to consider- making the D2C into a sedan wouldn’t be that “hard” to do, but it would cost a significant amount of money I’m assuming since it would need to be retested for crash standards due to the major changes in the passenger cell with the two additional doors. It would also help pay for any major updates for the coupe. I have no idea how CD6 would work as a coupe or even a sedan, but that would be the smart way of doing things, but I’d also guess that would take a significant amount of time vs going the D2C sedan route. I’d venture to guess that a D2C sedan could come in 2029, but anything CD6 would be post 2030. either way we have at least 36-48 months or longer before you can actually buy one and give it Fords history with products, they change their plans 2-3x times before that We've just heard forever that it wasn't worth it, but somehow now it is? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 (edited) FWIW, some Borg tidbits: I guess I should say Ford is down to 13 nameplates with Lincoln, unless Corsair returns in a few months and it'll be 14 by year's end. They are adding the Skunk Truck, Skunk Escape, Skunk Corsair, the Ohio built Transit Custom Van (not the Maverick Van apparently), Bronco Pickup, 4-Door Mustang, and possibly a Maverick SUV and Van. I think the Maverick models have been dropped because they had plans to import Bronco Sport from Spain and free up space at Hermosillo for the added models, but now it looks like the expansion plans in Valencia are off so that probably means Mex BS stays put. Hopefully this means they can give us the Bronco Sport HEV, and not just the PHEV they planned to import. The HEV had Tariff issues weirdly enough that the PHEV didn't. That would at least give Ford a Hybrid SUV, even if it wouldn't be as cheap and efficient as the larger Maverick SUV. So they will be adding stuff through 2030, and continue investing in Mach E with refreshes. Some of these are just expansions of existing nameplates, but Ford is moving into new categories it will really only share with Jeep/RAM...once again. And hey, RAM is responding to Maverick at least. Ford and GM continue to duke it out over Full-Size stuff of course. I guess the Explorer and Aviator Hybrid isn't returning to retail as I was lead to believe. I think Ford is struggling to decide its next move on 3-Row, but it's advancing redesigns of Explorer and Aviator to extend its life. Edited June 23 by rmc523 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherminator98 Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 44 minutes ago, rmc523 said: We've just heard forever that it wasn't worth it, but somehow now it is? What a Mustang Sedan current platform or moving it to CD6? I'm guessing the calculus on the Mustang sedan changed-the coupe market is shrinking and well prior to the current administration, CAFE was rearing its head and longer overall Mustang would make CAFE requirements "easier". Spending money on the mustang and spreading it between two products on a platform that is more or less paid off and would hopefully double current sales seems like it would work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExplorerDude Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 1 hour ago, rmc523 said: FWIW, some Borg tidbits: I guess I should say Ford is down to 13 nameplates with Lincoln, unless Corsair returns in a few months and it'll be 14 by year's end. They are adding the Skunk Truck, Skunk Escape, Skunk Corsair, the Ohio built Transit Custom Van (not the Maverick Van apparently), Bronco Pickup, 4-Door Mustang, and possibly a Maverick SUV and Van. I think the Maverick models have been dropped because they had plans to import Bronco Sport from Spain and free up space at Hermosillo for the added models, but now it looks like the expansion plans in Valencia are off so that probably means Mex BS stays put. Hopefully this means they can give us the Bronco Sport HEV, and not just the PHEV they planned to import. The HEV had Tariff issues weirdly enough that the PHEV didn't. That would at least give Ford a Hybrid SUV, even if it wouldn't be as cheap and efficient as the larger Maverick SUV. So they will be adding stuff through 2030, and continue investing in Mach E with refreshes. Some of these are just expansions of existing nameplates, but Ford is moving into new categories it will really only share with Jeep/RAM...once again. And hey, RAM is responding to Maverick at least. Ford and GM continue to duke it out over Full-Size stuff of course. I guess the Explorer and Aviator Hybrid isn't returning to retail as I was lead to believe. I think Ford is struggling to decide its next move on 3-Row, but it's advancing redesigns of Explorer and Aviator to extend its life. Most of this is accurate. The Maverick based small van was indeed cancelled earlier this year. The C2 “Maverick SUV” is still moving forward as far as I know. I don’t know where the next gen Bronco Sport is going with the Valencia change. I have heard the Mach-E could get a “roommate” at that plant because it’s so underutilized. Another C2 plant is needed. Yes, the Explorer and Aviator will be getting major upgrades for MY30 but they did scale back the full redesign. It’s incredibly frustrating to witness the constant second guessing and market chasing going on. Ford only leads with trucks at this time. We follow everyone else with the remainder of the lineup. Meanwhile Hyundai and Kia are constantly rolling out new product and are never looking back. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-dubz Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 19 minutes ago, ExplorerDude said: Most of this is accurate. The Maverick based small van was indeed cancelled earlier this year. The C2 “Maverick SUV” is still moving forward as far as I know. I don’t know where the next gen Bronco Sport is going with the Valencia change. I have heard the Mach-E could get a “roommate” at that plant because it’s so underutilized. Another C2 plant is needed. Yes, the Explorer and Aviator will be getting major upgrades for MY30 but they did scale back the full redesign. It’s incredibly frustrating to witness the constant second guessing and market chasing going on. Ford only leads with trucks at this time. We follow everyone else with the remainder of the lineup. Meanwhile Hyundai and Kia are constantly rolling out new product and are never looking back. Hopefully the explorer updates address quality issues as well. We’ve had so many recalls on our last two explorers that my wife doesn’t want to buy another ford. I don’t really care about this new truck EV, but I’m excited to see what the next BS, escape, corsair, and maverick suv are like. Mustang 4-dr sounds cool but I’m not looking for a car. Still really interested in the bronco truck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 1 hour ago, Sherminator98 said: What a Mustang Sedan current platform or moving it to CD6? I'm guessing the calculus on the Mustang sedan changed-the coupe market is shrinking and well prior to the current administration, CAFE was rearing its head and longer overall Mustang would make CAFE requirements "easier". Spending money on the mustang and spreading it between two products on a platform that is more or less paid off and would hopefully double current sales seems like it would work. Mustang sedan on the current platform. 36 minutes ago, ExplorerDude said: Most of this is accurate. The Maverick based small van was indeed cancelled earlier this year. The C2 “Maverick SUV” is still moving forward as far as I know. I don’t know where the next gen Bronco Sport is going with the Valencia change. I have heard the Mach-E could get a “roommate” at that plant because it’s so underutilized. Another C2 plant is needed. Yes, the Explorer and Aviator will be getting major upgrades for MY30 but they did scale back the full redesign. It’s incredibly frustrating to witness the constant second guessing and market chasing going on. Ford only leads with trucks at this time. We follow everyone else with the remainder of the lineup. Meanwhile Hyundai and Kia are constantly rolling out new product and are never looking back. So Maverick van was on, then off, then on again, and now off again? Typical Ford............but I guess if they're brining the Custom over, that'll fill that gap? I agree that Cuatitlan could use another product - never made sense to me to have it Mach-E only. I think I'd suggested it become another C2 plant in the past, as long as it can handle both powertrain types if they're keeping Mach-E around for a while. What does scale back a full redesign mean? You'd think Explorer (and Aviator) would get good attention because it's a segment they lead, but seems like complacency wins again........they see rising sales of Explorer because they dropped everything else, and think they're good..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 (edited) Look it's the new Mustang sedan: Custom 1966 Ford Mustang Limousine Up For Auction Edited June 23 by rmc523 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zestyg Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 5 hours ago, rmc523 said: So they will be adding stuff through 2030, and continue investing in Mach E with refreshes. Some of these are just expansions of existing nameplates, but Ford is moving into new categories it will really only share with Jeep/RAM...once again. And hey, RAM is responding to Maverick at least. Ford and GM continue to duke it out over Full-Size stuff of course. Battling Jeep and Ram and fighting with GM on full sized isn’t a bad idea; those are two incredibly durable brands in America despite the utter incompetence of their management. It also fits Ford’s core competencies well, that’s 1 million sales per year in incredibly profitable segments to pick up without much competition. UEV and the other products mentioned like the Maverick SUV further help Ford avoid the sort of Dutch Disease Jeep and Ram constantly suffer from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 16 hours ago, rmc523 said: Mustang sedan on the current platform. Im wondering if that CD6 Utility mentioned earlier ends up a crossover? 16 hours ago, rmc523 said: So Maverick van was on, then off, then on again, and now off again? Typical Ford............but I guess if they're brining the Custom over, that'll fill that gap? I agree that Cuatitlan could use another product - never made sense to me to have it Mach-E only. I think I'd suggested it become another C2 plant in the past, as long as it can handle both powertrain types if they're keeping Mach-E around for a while. What does scale back a full redesign mean? You'd think Explorer (and Aviator) would get good attention because it's a segment they lead, but seems like complacency wins again........they see rising sales of Explorer because they dropped everything else, and think they're good..... Ford keeps changing plans, wondering what all of that looks like this time next year… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherminator98 Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 22 hours ago, rmc523 said: FWIW, some Borg tidbits: I guess I should say Ford is down to 13 nameplates with Lincoln, unless Corsair returns in a few months and it'll be 14 by year's end. They are adding the Skunk Truck, Skunk Escape, Skunk Corsair, the Ohio built Transit Custom Van (not the Maverick Van apparently), Bronco Pickup, 4-Door Mustang, and possibly a Maverick SUV and Van. I think the Maverick models have been dropped because they had plans to import Bronco Sport from Spain and free up space at Hermosillo for the added models, but now it looks like the expansion plans in Valencia are off so that probably means Mex BS stays put. Hopefully this means they can give us the Bronco Sport HEV, and not just the PHEV they planned to import. The HEV had Tariff issues weirdly enough that the PHEV didn't. That would at least give Ford a Hybrid SUV, even if it wouldn't be as cheap and efficient as the larger Maverick SUV. So they will be adding stuff through 2030, and continue investing in Mach E with refreshes. Some of these are just expansions of existing nameplates, but Ford is moving into new categories it will really only share with Jeep/RAM...once again. And hey, RAM is responding to Maverick at least. Ford and GM continue to duke it out over Full-Size stuff of course. I guess the Explorer and Aviator Hybrid isn't returning to retail as I was lead to believe. I think Ford is struggling to decide its next move on 3-Row, but it's advancing redesigns of Explorer and Aviator to extend its life. No mention of what product is supposed to go to Tennessee Truck Plant.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 4 hours ago, jpd80 said: Im wondering if that CD6 Utility mentioned earlier ends up a crossover? Ford keeps changing plans, wondering what all of that looks like this time next year… I don't understand this statement? Or maybe I just figured it's a given that whatever Mustang crossover will be on CD6 since it's already underpinning 2 utilities (as opposed to more work to do a sedan). And no kidding on the latter point......next year? Give them a few hours, they'll rip up the plans and start over 37 times by then.... 1 hour ago, Sherminator98 said: No mention of what product is supposed to go to Tennessee Truck Plant.... He's got Bronco pickup in that list, I assume that's it, even if it makes no sense to me to have it at its own plant.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 39 minutes ago, rmc523 said: ...He's got Bronco pickup in that list, I assume that's it, even if it makes no sense to me to have it at its own plant.... Ranger would likely move to TTP and Bronco pickup gets built right next to Bronco at MAP...not sure how that would make sense to give Ranger competition from your own field but then again I cannot figure out Fords plans as they keep changing them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 8 minutes ago, twintornados said: Ranger would likely move to TTP and Bronco pickup gets built right next to Bronco at MAP...not sure how that would make sense to give Ranger competition from your own field but then again I cannot figure out Fords plans as they keep changing them. I agree that that would make more sense. Ford doesn't seem to see a problem overlapping 87 different trucks, but let's not have anything between Bronco Sport and Explorer lol. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 1 hour ago, twintornados said: Ranger would likely move to TTP and Bronco pickup gets built right next to Bronco at MAP...not sure how that would make sense to give Ranger competition from your own field but then again I cannot figure out Fords plans as they keep changing them. That's why I think the TTP truck eventually replaces Ranger. Bronco pickup absorbs most of current ranger sales especially raptor while the new truck picks up sales between maverick and bronco with a much lower internal cost and higher margins. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texasota Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 1 hour ago, akirby said: That's why I think the TTP truck eventually replaces Ranger. Bronco pickup absorbs most of current ranger sales especially raptor while the new truck picks up sales between maverick and bronco with a much lower internal cost and higher margins. That seems to be the logical guess. The Bronco pickup built side by side with Bronco at MAP. Greater degree of parts sharing and identical hybrid setups. TTP exactly as you have been saying for months. Can’t you be wrong part of the time? 🤨 Glad I went ahead and got a 2026 Ranger. It should last me a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 (edited) 6 hours ago, rmc523 said: I don't understand this statement? Or maybe I just figured it's a given that whatever Mustang crossover will be on CD6 since it's already underpinning 2 utilities (as opposed to more work to do a sedan). Lots of confusing info coming out at the moment, sorry if I seem to be adding to that 6 hours ago, rmc523 said: And no kidding on the latter point......next year? Give them a few hours, they'll rip up the plans and start over 37 times by then.... Like we often say, if you don’t like/understand Ford’s plans, just wait a few months for the new one… 6 hours ago, rmc523 said: He's got Bronco pickup in that list, I assume that's it, even if it makes no sense to me to have it at its own plant.... on a slightly different approach, Lots of ideas about what’s going into TTP, I hope Ford clarifies this soon but maybe what they’ve decided to build there needs to stay under wraps because it would be too easy for GM/Stellantis to counter it this far out? I just hope Ford does something more with Ranger Super Duty, there’s some good engineering in that package that could be shared in perhaps different way/vehicle in the US market? Edited June 24 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 47 minutes ago, jpd80 said: Lots of confusing info coming out at the moment, sorry if I seem to be adding to that Like we often say, if you don’t like/understand Ford’s plans, just wait a few months for the new one… on a slightly different approach, Lots of ideas about what’s going into TTP, I hope Ford clarifies this soon but maybe what they’ve decided to build there needs to stay under wraps because it would be too easy for GM/Stellantis to counter it this far out? I just hope Ford does something more with Ranger Super Duty, there’s some good engineering in that package that could be shared in perhaps different way/vehicle in the US market? I was just trying to understand what you were trying to say there. I can't really think of any other unique truck to slot in there... See, I don't see the point of Ranger Super Duty here - we have F-150, whereas other markets don't. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 (edited) 2 hours ago, rmc523 said: I was just trying to understand what you were trying to say there. Again, sorry to confuse, I was just wondering if four door S650 based has been so long coming it now gets replaced by a CD6 that replaces Mach E? I don’t know because Ford’s plans keep changing and the four door was always low priority compared to crossovers and utilities 2 hours ago, rmc523 said: I can't really think of any other unique truck to slot in there... See, I don't see the point of Ranger Super Duty here - we have F-150, whereas other markets don't. Not the Ranger SD as is, use the stronger frame to create either a new F100 or a Bronco pickup with real towing chops We still don’t have confirmation that TTP will use a T6 product or if Ford is going another way And then there’s relaunching Lightning as an EREV, so much planned at Ford, hard to keep up. Edited June 24 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherminator98 Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 I still think Ford is bullshitting or holding their power dry on the TTP...A bronco pickup wouldn't do any better then the Ranger IMO. The Ranger is never advertised, at least I've never seen it and it absolutely makes zero sense to add another product to the NA lineup that is already being covered by another product in the form of the Ranger, when you have huge holes in other parts of the lineup that could be filled by something else (midsized crossover etc) that is new product. Adding a Lincoln Bronco would just help keep MAP busy when interest is down in either the Ranger or Bronco, even that. I have a hard time thinking they'll be able to sell 20-30K of them a year. Ford just needs to start getting product out the door, we are at the 5 year mark without new product release, till the CE1 Pickup comes out since the Maverick came out. This is just incredibly frustrating to see them basically fail about with out laying out a plan and at least trying to execute it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExplorerDude Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 2 hours ago, jpd80 said: Again, sorry to confuse, I was just wondering if four door S650 based has been so long coming it now gets replaced by a CD6 that replaces Mach E? I don’t know because Ford’s plans keep changing and the four door was always low priority compared to crossovers and utilities Not the Ranger SD as is, use the stronger frame to create either a new F100 or a Bronco pickup with real towing chops We still don’t have confirmation that TTP will use a T6 product or if Ford is going another way And then there’s relaunching Lightning as an EREV, so much planned at Ford, hard to keep up. Mustang cars stay on the same platform. The sedan was originally supposed to be launched during the S650 run but by the time it would launch the design would be and look old so the S650 lifecycle was shortened. T6 pickups will be following that strategy which you nailed above. Bronco pickup stays with Bronco and Lincoln Bronco at MAP. TTP becomes a T6 plant with exactly what you guessed. 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc523 Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 (edited) 15 hours ago, jpd80 said: Again, sorry to confuse, I was just wondering if four door S650 based has been so long coming it now gets replaced by a CD6 that replaces Mach E? I don’t know because Ford’s plans keep changing and the four door was always low priority compared to crossovers and utilities Not the Ranger SD as is, use the stronger frame to create either a new F100 or a Bronco pickup with real towing chops We still don’t have confirmation that TTP will use a T6 product or if Ford is going another way And then there’s relaunching Lightning as an EREV, so much planned at Ford, hard to keep up. Sounds like they're taking the simpler approach of keeping it on the same platform. Interesting idea of F-100........I guess I just don't understand why they'd go through all that effort instead of just sticking with an already engineered global model.....seems like a waste of funds to me, unless they have data saying ROW wants something different from Ranger than the US does? Is there that big of a towing/hauling gap between Ranger and F-150 that would require slotting something beefier in there? I also feel like they've purposely hamstrung Ranger by prioritizing Bronco production and limiting Ranger cab types. Ranger was up at 100k a year before Bronco came online, and between prioritizing Bronco, making it crew cab only (leaving no longer bed option unless you get an F-150), and slotting Maverick below it, it's gotten squeezed multiple ways. I don't fully understand how an F-100 solves that, that just adding more varieties of Ranger wouldn't solve? You're literally engineering a whole new truck model for what gain? BUT, if they're going to take that approach, I think it could be cool for them to do a retro-ish pickup for it to stand out more.....not something extreme like the SSR, but just inspired by some retro cues.... 12 hours ago, ExplorerDude said: Mustang cars stay on the same platform. The sedan was originally supposed to be launched during the S650 run but by the time it would launch the design would be and look old so the S650 lifecycle was shortened. T6 pickups will be following that strategy which you nailed above. Bronco pickup stays with Bronco and Lincoln Bronco at MAP. TTP becomes a T6 plant with exactly what you guessed. I'm glad to hear they decided to just shorten the S650 run.....I feel its design is the weakest part of it. That was my concern too about launching the sedan under the current look....even if you did it to usher in a refresh, you're still basing a new model on an aging design, with a replacement around the corner. Interesting regarding T6 pickups....my F-100 thoughts are above. It definitely makes sense to consolidate a Bronco pickup at MAP - too many shared parts in my mind to make separate production at another plant make sense. Same for a Lincoln model (I doubt any body panels or anything will be shared, but I'd imagine a lot under the skin will be more closer to Bronco than the trucks are. Edited June 25 by rmc523 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twintornados Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 15 minutes ago, rmc523 said: ...I don't fully understand how an F-100 solves that, that just adding more varieties of Ranger wouldn't solve? You're literally engineering a whole new truck model for what gain? One guess would be by calling it F-100, the sales count would go into the "F-Series" sales total.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 I think it's clear that outside of Raptors Ranger doesn't have big margins. I assume that whatever version TTP builds will have a much lower cost and will eventually be rolled out to other Ranger plants. I also expect more commercial fleet sales and more cab/bed options. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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