Mach-e won't transition to the skunkworks platform

[rmc523]

13 minutes ago, akirby said:

I think it's clear that outside of Raptors Ranger doesn't have big margins.  I assume that whatever version TTP builds will have a much lower cost and will eventually be rolled out to other Ranger plants.  I also expect more commercial fleet sales and more cab/bed options.

 

But JPD proposed an F-100, and ExplorerDude said yeah.........meaning it's not just start something at TTP and then roll it to other Ranger plants when they're doing another model completely (aka not Ranger..........this line of thinking also fits with the talk of Ranger going away for US).

[fordmantpw]

37 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

But JPD proposed an F-100, and ExplorerDude said yeah.........meaning it's not just start something at TTP and then roll it to other Ranger plants when they're doing another model completely (aka not Ranger..........this line of thinking also fits with the talk of Ranger going away for US).

 

F100 in US, Ranger for ROW.  Same truck, different name.

 

Take what they learn from CE1 and the enhanced electrical architecture they are working on, apply it to the Ranger, call it the F100 in the US (or whatever, name doesn't matter).  Then, once the bugs are worked out, apply it to the Ranger for non-US markets.  In the past, the US has been a follower with the Ranger (getting it after the ROW gets it).  Going forward, maybe it'll be the other way around.

[akirby]

1 hour ago, rmc523 said:

 

But JPD proposed an F-100, and ExplorerDude said yeah.........meaning it's not just start something at TTP and then roll it to other Ranger plants when they're doing another model completely (aka not Ranger..........this line of thinking also fits with the talk of Ranger going away for US).

Why are you assuming F-100 isn't the Ranger replacement?

[rmc523]

52 minutes ago, fordmantpw said:

 

F100 in US, Ranger for ROW.  Same truck, different name.

 

Take what they learn from CE1 and the enhanced electrical architecture they are working on, apply it to the Ranger, call it the F100 in the US (or whatever, name doesn't matter).  Then, once the bugs are worked out, apply it to the Ranger for non-US markets.  In the past, the US has been a follower with the Ranger (getting it after the ROW gets it).  Going forward, maybe it'll be the other way around.

 

29 minutes ago, akirby said:

Why are you assuming F-100 isn't the Ranger replacement?

 

Huh?  I am saying it's the Ranger replacement here.  Calling it F-100 makes it seem like a completely different model, different size etc vs. global Ranger........I don't see what calling it F-100 does, but that's me.   I don't think the "Ranger" name is what's holding the product back.

 

That said, if they do go with that name, hope they don't pull shenanigans of tallying F-100 sales under F-series

Edited June 25 by rmc523

[Sherminator98]

2 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

Huh?  I am saying it's the Ranger replacement here.  Calling it F-100 makes it seem like a completely different model, different size etc vs. global Ranger........I don't see what calling it F-100 does, but that's me.   I don't think the "Ranger" name is what's holding the product back.

 

That said, if they do go with that name, hope they don't pull shenanigans of tallying F-100 sales under F-series

 

Even if they brought the Ranger Super Duty over, I fail to see what exactly it offers over the a lower end F-150. 

 

I'm looking at it from a customer perspective-

 

The Ranger is quite possibly is too "big"/costs too much for its own good-its in that neither region that is dominated by the Tacoma and has hard ceiling with the F-150 above it. If you want something smaller/cheaper, the Maverick fits the bill and that segment is going to get even more crowded by the CE1 Pickup with some customers. 

 

Unless Ford is planning on pushing the F-150 much higher in price, adding a F-100/Super Duty Ranger isn't going to do much in the market. 

[fordmantpw]

38 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

 

Huh?  I am saying it's the Ranger replacement here.  Calling it F-100 makes it seem like a completely different model, different size etc vs. global Ranger........I don't see what calling it F-100 does, but that's me.   I don't think the "Ranger" name is what's holding the product back.

 

That said, if they do go with that name, hope they don't pull shenanigans of tallying F-100 sales under F-series

 

You're hung up on the name.  Think next generation Ranger, whatever it's called.

 

It's also possible that @Sherminator98 is onto something.  Maybe the Ranger drops in size a bit for the US, but soldiers on as-is for the rest of the world. 

 

Who knows what's up...Ford probably isn't even certain!

[Sherminator98]

5 minutes ago, fordmantpw said:

It's also possible that @Sherminator98 is onto something.  Maybe the Ranger drops in size a bit for the US, but soldiers on as-is for the rest of the world. 

 

That would be stupid with the Maverick and CE1 right under it....your splitting a pie up that isn't very big for Ford anyways. 

[Texasota]

3 hours ago, rmc523 said:

You're literally engineering a whole new truck model for what gain?

Assuming it’s based on Ranger SD, then it’s not engineering a whole new model. It’s mostly already available.
 

One of the biggest complaints about Ranger is that it is available only in one configuration (Supercrew and short bed). Using the Ranger SD frame they can easily stretch wheelbases and have lots of configurations (like F-150) while enabling higher towing and payload capacities. 
 

No doubt it will eat into some F-150 volume but a big complaint about F-150 is that it has grown so large that it doesn’t fit in average size garages anymore. Naming it F-100 allows it to be marketed as an expansion of F-Series. If the F-100 margins are comparable to F-150, then it is a win assuming total F-Series sales increase.

 

I like this plan much more than TTP getting some form of unibody pickup that overlaps to much with the Maverick and Skunk Truck. I’m greatly relieved as this means the Ranger is not going away, instead it is going to be greatly expanded under a new name. Also likely multiple hybrid options. WooHoo!

Edited June 25 by Texasota

[Texasota]

This F-100 subject is worthy of its own thread.

[fordmantpw]

35 minutes ago, Sherminator98 said:

 

That would be stupid with the Maverick and CE1 right under it....your splitting a pie up that isn't very big for Ford anyways. 

 

Think somewhere between the Maverick and current Ranger, but closer to Ranger than Maverick (85% of the way from Maverick to Ranger).  Downsize it a bit to back it off from F150 size.  It gives a better separation.  Bronco truck will be added to the mix also.

 

And think of CE1 as Maverick EV.  They're the same truck with different powertrains (guessing since we don't know the exact size of CE1).

 

Again, we're all spit balling here...

[rmc523]

1 hour ago, Sherminator98 said:

 

Even if they brought the Ranger Super Duty over, I fail to see what exactly it offers over the a lower end F-150. 

 

I'm looking at it from a customer perspective-

 

The Ranger is quite possibly is too "big"/costs too much for its own good-its in that neither region that is dominated by the Tacoma and has hard ceiling with the F-150 above it. If you want something smaller/cheaper, the Maverick fits the bill and that segment is going to get even more crowded by the CE1 Pickup with some customers. 

 

Unless Ford is planning on pushing the F-150 much higher in price, adding a F-100/Super Duty Ranger isn't going to do much in the market. 

 

It's hard for me to grasp Ranger being "too big" when Toyota sells nearly 4 times as many Tacomas at the same size.   Granted, Tundra sales above it are much smaller, so Toyota has different strengths, but still.  And "costs too much" seems strange, considering it's a global model, which should reduce costs.....but it's Ford.....

 

41 minutes ago, fordmantpw said:

 

You're hung up on the name.  Think next generation Ranger, whatever it's called.

 

It's also possible that @Sherminator98 is onto something.  Maybe the Ranger drops in size a bit for the US, but soldiers on as-is for the rest of the world. 

 

Who knows what's up...Ford probably isn't even certain!

 

There's nowhere to "drop in size" with Maverick below it, though...

 

26 minutes ago, Texasota said:

Assuming it’s based on Ranger SD, then it’s not engineering a whole new model. It’s mostly already available.
 

One of the biggest complaints about Ranger is that it is available only in one configuration (Supercrew and short bed). Using the Ranger SD frame they can easily stretch wheelbases and have lots of configurations (like F-150) while enabling higher towing and payload capacities. 
 

No doubt it will eat into some F-150 volume but a big complaint about F-150 is that it has grown so large that it doesn’t fit in average size garages anymore. Naming it F-100 allows it to be marketed as an expansion of F-Series. If the F-100 margins are comparable to F-150, then it is a win assuming total F-Series sales increase.

 

I like this plan much more than TTP getting some form of unibody pickup that overlaps to much with the Maverick and Skunk Truck. I’m greatly relieved as this means the Ranger is not going away, instead it is going to be greatly expanded under a new name. Also likely multiple hybrid options. WooHoo!

 

They already have single cab and SuperCab options in ROW - using SD frame isn't necessary for that - that's just a Ford decision to try to cut costs/build combos by only offering one setup.

[rmc523]

3 minutes ago, fordmantpw said:

 

Think somewhere between the Maverick and current Ranger, but closer to Ranger than Maverick (85% of the way from Maverick to Ranger).  Downsize it a bit to back it off from F150 size.  It gives a better separation.  Bronco truck will be added to the mix also.

 

And think of CE1 as Maverick EV.  They're the same truck with different powertrains (guessing since we don't know the exact size of CE1).

 

Again, we're all spit balling here...

 

......................L..........W.........H

Maverick.....199.8......72.6.....68.8

Ranger........210.6......75.5......74.4

F-150..........232.0......79.9.....75.4

 

I guess it could shrink a bit, but not sure what the point of that would be.....it's really not stepping on F-150's toes at all.

[akirby]

5 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

And "costs too much" seems strange, considering it's a global model, which should reduce costs.....but it's Ford...

But if you start with an expensive super capable platform then global volume only reduces costs so much.  Adopting ce1 principles for design, engineering and assembly could cut costs several thousand dollars enabling lower prices and increasing margins.  And you still get the volume amortizations.

[fordmantpw]

2 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

 

......................L..........W.........H

Maverick.....199.8......72.6.....68.8

Ranger........210.6......75.5......74.4

F-150..........232.0......79.9.....75.4

 

I guess it could shrink a bit, but not sure what the point of that would be.....it's really not stepping on F-150's toes at all.

 

I thought it was closer to F150 than that.

 

Also, keep in mind that Maverick is a car with a bed and not a truck, also.

[fordmantpw]

1 minute ago, akirby said:

But if you start with an expensive super capable platform then global volume only reduces costs so much.  Adopting ce1 principles for design, engineering and assembly could cut costs several thousand dollars enabling lower prices and increasing margins.  And you still get the volume amortizations.

 

And realistically, I think this is the focus more than changing the size of the Ranger.

[Sherminator98]

6 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

It's hard for me to grasp Ranger being "too big" when Toyota sells nearly 4 times as many Tacomas at the same size.   Granted, Tundra sales above it are much smaller, so Toyota has different strengths, but still.  And "costs too much" seems strange, considering it's a global model, which should reduce costs.....but it's Ford.....

 

Well just look at this way-a stereotypical Ford truck buyer would most likely buy an F-150 over a Ranger if the price is similar. I don't think that translates the same way with the Tacoma and Tundra. 

 

The Tacoma is like the Camry or Accord-its a Japanese staple in the American Car buyer diet. Not sure if Ford could or would want to knock it off its pedestal

 

The Ranger primarily exists in NA for the Bronco 

[rmc523]

11 minutes ago, fordmantpw said:

 

I thought it was closer to F150 than that.

 

Also, keep in mind that Maverick is a car with a bed and not a truck, also.

 

I guess, but I'd imagine many buyers don't look at it that way.

 

6 minutes ago, Sherminator98 said:

 

Well just look at this way-a stereotypical Ford truck buyer would most likely buy an F-150 over a Ranger if the price is similar. I don't think that translates the same way with the Tacoma and Tundra. 

 

The Tacoma is like the Camry or Accord-its a Japanese staple in the American Car buyer diet. Not sure if Ford could or would want to knock it off its pedestal

 

The Ranger primarily exists in NA for the Bronco 

 

This is another important point - if you drastically change Ranger/F-100, you're pulling that scale from Bronco too, unless it too would go to whatever this new platform is....(I assume it would).

[Sherminator98]

Adding another T6 plant doesn't make much sense, unless they plan on just badge engineering the Super Duty Ranger into a F-100 with a new top hat (not sure how that will pay off) or maybe add the Everest to the plant also? It would be easier to do a Linclonized Bronco that way...

[Texasota]

52 minutes ago, rmc523 said:

They already have single cab and SuperCab options in ROW - using SD frame isn't necessary for that - that's just a Ford decision to try to cut costs/build combos by only offering one setup.

True, but they can significantly bump up towing and payload capacity (gets closer to the F-150) while maintaining a size that is attractive to many customers. I don’t want an F-150 because it is too darn big for my garage and my personal preference. But I’ll get in line for an F-100 Powerboost.

[Texasota]

57 minutes ago, Sherminator98 said:

Adding another T6 plant doesn't make much sense, unless they plan on just badge engineering the Super Duty Ranger into a F-100 with a new top hat (not sure how that will pay off) or maybe add the Everest to the plant also? It would be easier to do a Linclonized Bronco that way...

This has reminded me of Farley’s statement that TTP is going to build a “different kind of truck” which makes me think Ford has more going on than just a Ranger SD rebadge.

[Sherminator98]

13 minutes ago, Texasota said:

True, but they can significantly bump up towing and payload capacity (gets closer to the F-150) while maintaining a size that is attractive to many customers. I don’t want an F-150 because it is too darn big for my garage and my personal preference. But I’ll get in line for an F-100 Powerboost.

 

The biggest advantage that the SD Ranger has over the F-150 is that it can carry more playload. Otherwise towing is identical (from what I can tell) with certain engine options on the 150. 

[DeluxeStang]

18 hours ago, ExplorerDude said:

Mustang cars stay on the same platform. The sedan was originally supposed to be launched during the S650 run but by the time it would launch the design would be and look old so the S650 lifecycle was shortened.

T6 pickups will be following that strategy which you nailed above. Bronco pickup stays with Bronco and Lincoln Bronco at MAP.

 

TTP becomes a T6 plant with exactly what you guessed.

It makes a lot of sense. I've been saying for some time that because the s650 was a pretty mild redesign and not super fresh, by the time we got a sedan, it would look dated. 

 

Releasing the next gen coupe and sedan around the same time with fresh designs is the smart play. Hopefully they look great. 

[Zestyg]

The TTP truck could be as big as or smaller than the Maverick, like the old Ford Ranger/Mazda B Series. That thing sold a fuckton until they let it rot. It could be incredibly cheap, like low-mid $20,000’s, and highly configurable. A gas version of the Slate truck but without the weird feitshism (crank windows, ECU sold separately, no infotainment). This would put the Maverick more focused towards retail, focused on replacing the Escape’s old volume (although with totally different customers than the Escape had).

 

edit: looking at what ExplorerDude said to JPD, F-100 and/or Bronco Pickup with real towing chops. IDK if I hit the mark on what that means here, but I think that could work. I feel like a Bronco pickup would be more easily able to differentiate from the Maverick, Ranger, and Skunk Truck, but a F-100 could try to be really distinctive if it did what I describe above.

Edited June 25 by Zestyg

[morgan20]

25 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:

Releasing the next gen coupe and sedan around the same time with fresh designs is the smart play. Hopefully they look great. 

 

Yea, exactly. Hopefully around that time a proper, great lookin' pure electric successor to MME is released too.

[Texasota]

4 minutes ago, Zestyg said:

The TTP truck could be as big as or smaller than the Maverick, like the old Ford Ranger/Mazda B Series. That thing sold a fuckton until they let it rot. It could be incredibly cheap, like low-mid $20,000’s, and highly configurable. A gas version of the Slate truck but without the weird feitshism (crank windows, ECU sold separately, no infotainment). This would put the Maverick more focused towards retail, focused on replacing the Escape’s old volume (although with totally different customers than the Escape had).

Not if it’s based on the Ranger SD as ExplorerDude just told us.