Parked next to a new Fusion....

[Ovaltine]

[i wonder where the 13k goes?North or South Korea?Just wondering!

 

 

Stap, Stap, STAP! How many time do I have to tell you! I don't manufacuwa Hyundais or KIAs!!!

 

 

:lol:

 

 

-Ovaltine

[RichardJensen]

Ovaltine:

 

Take a look at this, if you haven't seen it already--

http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/index...indpost&p=15192

[Ovaltine]

Ovaltine:

 

Take a look at this, if you haven't seen it already--

http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/index...indpost&p=15192

 

That report is encouraging. Whether people believe it or not, I'd rather hear stories like this one than ones to the contrary.

 

I also have to admit that the 500 and Montego *are* the cars that appeal to me most in the Ford lineup, AFTER the Mustang Mach I (of course) that the Blueovalnews.com site is alluding to.

 

The 500 and Montego have the whole Volvo safety mojo thing going on and that's appealing, to be sure.

 

If Ford can revamp the styling on these two slightly (which is forthcoming, I read) AND give the customers some powertrain options engine-wise, then the sales should steadily improve if quality holds AND Ford finds a way to market them properly.

 

How about adding the word "Galaxie" in front of the numerals???? Hmmmmm?

 

 

 

 

 

And while we're on the topic of names...... could / would Ford PLEASE consider burying that damned moniker "Crown Victoria" for the rightful heir to the throne "LTD"????? And drop the "Grand" from "Grand Marquis" and just call the car the "Marquis".

 

I think the time to do that would during the *next* Panther refresh or major revamp. I owned an "LTD" back in high school, but I would have *never* been caught dead in a "Crown Victoria".

 

 

-Ovaltine

Edited January 25, 2006 by Ovaltine

[timmm55]

I went to the San Diego car show last month. My buddy likes the Tiburon and I'd been hearing good things about the Sonata so I thought I'd check it out. But when I actually got inside the Sonata I started laughing......WHY? First of all the dash is just FUGLY. It looks like a plastic copy of a 50s toaster or appliance. Maybe an EZ Bake oven. Then I shut the passenger door. The door handle cup wasn't just plastic.... it wasn't just cheap plastic...if felt like the molded interior of a refrigerator. I guess it won't crack in the cold.

 

http://www.edmunds.com/media/roadtests/fir...ata.int.500.jpg

 

The vents were flimsy. The dash pad felt like a paper mache shell. I was not impressed. The exterior wasn't too bad in a fake label, shiny suit kind of way if you consider Honda a fashion leader.

 

Thankfully the Tiburon looked AND felt a lot better.

[timmm55]

And while we're on the topic of names...... could / would Ford PLEASE consider burying that damned moniker "Crown Victoria" for the rightful heir to the throne "LTD"????? And drop the "Grand" from "Grand Marquis" and just call the car the "Marquis".

 

I think the time to do that would during the *next* Panther refresh or major revamp. I owned an "LTD" back in high school, but I would have *never* been caught dead in a "Crown Victoria".

-Ovaltine

 

I couldn't agree more. It goes back to the Fury/Grand Fury days of 1972 or so. Then there was the LTD and LTD II (Gran Torino based). Now if Ford decided to put the "Crown" back in Victoria with a glass or plastic roof I'd be all for it.

[partsisparts]

A kia on the side of the road with its hood up.

I own a 06 Fusion SEL V6. And I parked next to a new Kia this AM. The mouldings are DIFFERENT. I can tell you this the Kia looks like a soda can compared to a Fusion. The fit and finish are better and the paint quality. Also you should tske a look at the crash test ratings. Please do not try to justify your purchase of an inferior piece of crap to us on this board!

[Michael Reynolds]

What do you need foldable mirrors for on a midsized sedan in the first place? I have yet to use the ones on my F 150, never used them on my Ranger, and think that it's silly that my RX-8 has them. I'd much have a puddle light underneath the rearview mirror vs. a folding mirror.

 

While not garbage, the interior of the Sonata is worse than that of the Fusions. The grain, the touch of the plastic, reminds me of a late 90s Honda Accord.

[Ovaltine]

I own a 06 Fusion SEL V6. And I parked next to a new Kia this AM. The mouldings are DIFFERENT. I can tell you this the Kia looks like a soda can compared to a Fusion. The fit and finish are better and the paint quality. Also you should tske a look at the crash test ratings. Please do not try to justify your purchase of an inferior piece of crap to us on this board!

I try to be fair, even-handed, polite, and sometimes even humorous on here and THIS is how I'm treated in turn????

 

I'm hurt....... I mean I'm really HURT!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

NOT!!!!!!!!

 

:lol:

 

-Ovaltine

[Ovaltine]

What do you need foldable mirrors for on a midsized sedan in the first place? I have yet to use the ones on my F 150, never used them on my Ranger, and think that it's silly that my RX-8 has them.

Ahem. I refer you to the previous post where I explained how handy I found this feature just last week. If you don't ever park in tight spaces, then yep, I can understand why you may not see the value of them.

 

http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/index...indpost&p=14333

 

 

I'd much have a puddle light underneath the rearview mirror vs. a folding mirror.

On my Spectra I've got both the folding mirrors and the puddle lights. Both of the front doors have true downwards pointing "puddle lights" built into them that do a great job of lighting up the entire entry area next to the door(s).

 

 

 

LOOK everyone.... I never said that a protruding molding here, a sloppy inner fender fit there, or a missing desired feature there made the Fusion a "piece of crap" as my car has been disparaged sight unseen.

 

I simply pointed out some areas I think could be improved, and I stand by my remarks.

 

And I think the headlines of recent days more than echo my warning of "Ignore the competition at your own peril". After analyzing Ford's "Way Forward", I'm assuming that they are not ignoring anything. But it's apparent on these boards that a large group of brand loyalists may be doing JUST that.

 

 

-Ovaltine

Edited January 25, 2006 by Ovaltine

[tim kakouris]

ovaltine, the reason why i dislike you is not because of your message.

 

i come to this site to learn about what my favorite brand is doing...what new cars are coming, what new engines are all about, new features, company dirt, etc. i am under no delusion that the brand is perfect, so i also come to hear owners tell stories of issues concerning their cars and how they are going about getting it sorted. liking all cars in general, i take all of this info and compare and contrast it to the other brands...not because i'm going to buy them, but because i like cars and like to have mental pictures about how they stack up. i'm addicted to cars and info about them, for, say, 22 years now.

 

i dislike you because you come here to get reactions from the forum users. it doesn't really matter if what you say is true or not...i imagine hyundai is a fine brand of car, it can't be ALL bad...but to come on to this FORD forum to tout your hyundai is just trolling. i don't think we need to hear from you that ford has problems. we certainly don't need to hear from you that your traitorous purchase of a korean car has filled you with such glee that you have to try to convert us.

 

anyway, have a nice day driving your korean car....please, just don't waste your time here because you are compelled to tell someone about it. tell someone who really cares, like the koreans.

[Michael Reynolds]

OK, so you used your folding mirrors, awesome. If it were either of my vehicles I wouldn't even park anywhere close enough to another car to necessitate the use of folding mirrors. For all intents and purposes it could have been cheaper for Hyundai/Kia to use folding mirrors vs. fixed ones. Besides I thought the mirrors folding in on Fusions anyhow, regardless as to whether they do or not it saves you what a whole 2 inches of clearance.

 

Second of all, I don't think anyone was advocating that you were implying that the Fusion was trash, but instead trying to point out what it has that the others don't. Most buyers could give a damn about a locking gas cap, I lived downtown Detroit for I dunno how many years and never had anyone steal gas out of anything I owned, what they want to know is:

 

-Is it reliable

-How great is the resale

-Will it hold up over time

-Interior quality, fit and finish

 

Hyundai/Kia has finally righted a few of those things, but they do not excel in any one area. In fact long term dependability and resale is bottom of the barrel still.

 

Anyone that thinks Ford can do no wrong is silly, and needs to get their head examined. With that said Hyundai, at least at this point in time, is yet to make a product that stands head and shoulders over the competition. They still lack overall refinement that even the (dare I say) the Pontiac G6 exhbits.

 

BTW those puddle lamps I was refering to were integrated into the underside of the exterior rearview mirrors, and most of the time they are bright leds designed to better light the area you are stepping out on to.

[Ovaltine]

ovaltine, the reason why i dislike you is not because of your message.

 

i dislike you because you come here to get reactions from the forum users. it doesn't really matter if what you say is true or not...i imagine hyundai is a fine brand of car, it can't be ALL bad...but to come on to this FORD forum to tout your hyundai is just trolling.

 

Tim..... the last time I looked at this particular part of blueovalforums.com, the title was:

 

"The Competition - Be it GM, Toyota, DCX or Honda.....this is the place to discuss the enemy"

 

Doesn't the term "discuss" used above cover the act of comparing of the offerings of two car companies as I have? Or does it only infer that this forum is for bashing and disparaging other non-Ford related makes. I'm confused.

 

In any case, you'll probably NOT want to frequent this section of the forums much, since these kinds of topics and discussions DO arise.

 

You also accusing me of "trolling", but according to Wikipedia, a troll is:

"In Internet terminology, a troll is a person who posts rude or offensive messages on the Internet, such as on online discussion forums, to disrupt discussion or to upset its participants."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

 

I don't think I have been rude or offensive on this forum dedicated to discussion Ford competition. Nor have I attempted to distrupt any discussion on here. To the contrary, I am attempting to foster discussion about Ford Competition. Now I may be guilty of upsetting some folks on here, but that is not my intent nor within my control to prevent. 'Sorry.

 

I appreciate your candor and politely written response though. Too many folks traipse out the epithets and vulgarities when they encounter individuals they disagree with.

 

Btw, am I allowed to say something that could be deemed as positive about the Fusion here??? I saw the most Fusions ever in my daily trip to work this morning. I think it must have been at least 6 or more. I don't think that this was because I was being any more observant than usual either. B)

 

-Ovaltine

Edited January 25, 2006 by Ovaltine

[tim kakouris]

ovaltine...i thought i made it clear that i like to hear the discussions about the cars, good and bad? upon re-reading my post, i still think i made that clear. like you said...discussions. that's not what you're doing. you bought a car that you feel is superior in some (or all) ways to ford's offerings, and you want us to know about it. i feel you are just here to raise the ire of the core users. did you go to the gm forums to tout your hyundai over the new G6? (which i really, really like, by the way.) how about the honda forums? did you go there to let everyone know how much less your car cost? i'm currious, because ford can't be the only brand you consider sub-par, either by quality or price or a combination of the two?

 

here is what i picture when i picture forum users like you, ovaltine...."i'm bored, i just bought a cool new car and i want everyone to know it is sooooo much better than they think, and i want everyone to know that they are chuckleheads for making the decision to buy anything other than what i have bought! now, what was that ford forum called again??"

 

i could be way off base, but i have to say, i haven't gone to ANY OTHER BRAND-SPECIFIC BOARD AND TOLD THEM HOW MUCH I LIKED MY CURRENT FOMOCO PRODUCT.

[Ovaltine]

OK, so you used your folding mirrors, awesome. If it were either of my vehicles I wouldn't even park anywhere close enough to another car to necessitate the use of folding mirrors.

Michael:

 

In the city I park in, that last open spot I squeeze into may be the *last* one for over a half mile. I'm not kidding. So parking my car in "intimate" spots is sometimes a very real necessity for myself, and the rest of my brethren commuters.

 

And as I described in my original post, those several (aka: WAY more than 2) inches I gained allowed me to exit my car in a comfortable and dignified manner, instead of trying to limbo over my center console. My whole basic point was to point out a feature that many of Ford's competitors (the least of, being "lowly" KIA) deem attractive and usuable. If the competition didn't think the feature was useful or appreciated by their customers, they undoubtedly WOULDN'T PUT THEM ON! From your post it appears that just because you and Ford don't deem a feature useful or required, then the feature is either unnecessary or stupid. What kind of logic is that?

 

BTW those puddle lamps I was refering to were integrated into the underside of the exterior rearview mirrors, and most of the time they are bright leds designed to better light the area you are stepping out on to.

Yes... I was aware of the type of lights you first mentioned. I've seen them on several kinds of pickup trucks. I was simply pointing out that my (ahem) "piece of crap" KIA has a similar standard feature that serves the purpose you described. Those lights on the bottom of my doors light the step-out area well too.

 

 

My final thoughts on this topic are echoed by this statement in yesterday's Free Press by Mark Phelan. In his article he states:

"After decades of declining sales and market share, Ford's top executives acknowledged Monday that the company can't survive if it keeps bringing its B-game to American customers."

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2006601240375

 

In my opinion, it's the little things that the consumer sees and touches, coupled with great styling and high quality that make a true "A-game" manufacturer.

 

All I've tried to do is point out a few of those "little" things to some of the eyes at the "Glass House" that may frequent this little Ford oasis on the Internet in hopes that improvements in future (and possibly current?) models might occur.

 

 

-Ovaltine

Edited January 25, 2006 by Ovaltine

[Ovaltine]

here is what i picture when i picture forum users like you, ovaltine...."i'm bored, i just bought a cool new car and i want everyone to know it is sooooo much better than they think, and i want everyone to know that they are chuckleheads for making the decision to buy anything other than what i have bought! now, what was that ford forum called again??"

 

i could be way off base, but i have to say, i haven't gone to ANY OTHER BRAND-SPECIFIC BOARD AND TOLD THEM HOW MUCH I LIKED MY CURRENT FOMOCO PRODUCT.

If you feel strongly about your car, then why haven't you? In the process you might actually make a few converts to your "side" AND/OR learn a few really interesting and neat things about other car makes that you didn't know before!

 

I know that I've learned quite a few interesting (and positive) facts about the various new Ford models from this board. BUT the difference is that I don't go decrying those positives if I happen to notice that the other vehicles I drive don't compare equally.

 

And btw, I've been lurking on this forum since the day it opened and Ford internal docs were being published in their entirety. I'm not a recent immigrant from the edmunds.com or Autoweek's Combustion Chambers. You forget (or are unaware) that I've owned a whole bunch of Fords over the last 27 years, and currently still have an '88 LX 5.0 (mint condition!) in my garage!

 

 

Signing off..... for now.

 

-Ovaltine

Edited January 26, 2006 by Ovaltine

[Michael Reynolds]

Let's not put words into my mouth. I think that folding mirrors are useless, I didn't say Ford nor any other manufacturer should use them. I just don't understand why a big fuss is being made about technology that has been around for years.

 

Instead of going back and forth with you, because obviously you aren't understanding what point I'm trying to make, I will keep it simple. Hyundai does not excel in design, technology, nor performance, so instead of focusing on puddle lights, locking gas doors, and folding mirrors, more effort should be put towards interior refinement, powertrain, and coming up with their own designs.

 

Again am I implying that Ford is perfect? No, but they are making strides to right errors in the past. Hyundai has achieved this to a degree, but there are still questions that I have regarding their product line-up and engineering:

 

1. What innovations has Hyundai made in terms of technology? Better yet what have they introduced that can not be had on comparible vehicles?

2. What do they do well, aside from offering bargin basement vehicles?

3. Why does it seem that every vehicle that debuts appears to be a mish-mash of 5 different cars on one body?

[yamahaR1]

I love these UAW types who claim we are hurting America by buying a Japanese car. Hello, if it is built in the US, I am helping American workers, who spend their American dollars here in the US. I live in Michigan, so I grew up brainwashed like everyone else here. Now that I have been all around the US, and world for that matter, I can see the bigger picture. The Big 3 need to make big changes. Go to any major city, not in Michigan and you will see what has happened to their market share. I can almost see the changes when you head over the border to Ohio. In NYC/New Jersey, just about the only american cars there are taxi cabs. Chicago is not much different. LA, same thing. Truthfully, I would rather buy a Japenese or Korean car built in the US than a Big 3 car built in Mexico. I have been to Mexico many times, and they have lots of quality differences than us obviously. And finally, I am not into heavy slow loud motorcycles, see Harley, so I have a Japanese bike, because they have tremendous quality engineered into them, and there are no good sports bikes here in the US. Buel sucks! Later

[one2gamble]

Hello, if it is built in the US, I am helping American workers, who spend their American dollars here in the US

 

well hell, I help American workers when I buy t-shirts at wallmart made in asian sweat shops.

 

Your missing the point

[yamahaR1]

well hell, I help American workers when I buy t-shirts at wallmart made in asian sweat shops.

 

Your missing the point

Look at your market share, I think you are missing the point. I think you should qualify your statement about sweatshops. If they are taking advantage of little kids, fine that is wrong, but if some adult is happy to get a couple of dollars a day because that is a good salary for them, great for them. I have been to third world countries, asian countries, all over, and people are poor yes, so they would be glad to work in your "sweatshop". Just because they don't make $35 per hour to sit around most of the day, don't hold it against him. By the way, my experience with the high paid union guy doing nothing has been seen in a few

GM plants. They took a two hour breakfast break to watch tv in the break room. I was contracted to work in their plant, so I stayed with guys from the plant. I was amazed at their "union" mentality. Now I wonder how big 3 cars are even as cheap as they are with all the non productivity. I know everyone is not lazy, but my snapshot of a few GM plants probably means there are others as well. My point is changes need to be made. Cutting 30,000 jobs will open people's eyes. I hope things change, or we will continue to lose market share.

[partsisparts]

Those Kias have 'great' resale value don't they? I'll get a Chevy Cavalier before any Kia.

Does anyone know why Kias have such terrible resale value? Well, I can tell you. Because the people in the car biz ie: dealers, wholesalers and used car lots, know that the product is inferior. Rememeber these are the REAL car experts. The car at auction does not even bring book price. They know the car does not bring good money on their lots. Consumers do'nt go out looking for a used Sephia. Kia came out with a 5 door Sephia and called it a Spectra because the Sephia had such a bad rep. That was told to me by a Kia factory rep. You see I sold these little beautys for years and I know this stuff first hand. Kia was giving dealers HUGE incentives just to take their franchise. Did anyone ever see a stand alone Kia dealer? I have not even though I know ther must be some somewhere. The car is dead last in resale value and in the crash tests. Therefore the usual Kia customer is a credit criminal who cannot get financed on anything else. Kia has big rebates on inexpensive cars so dealers can manufacture big down payments on them. S the bank has less risk. Most of the "second chance" credit services you see on TV will wind up slamming you in a Kia because of this. Just my 2 cents from someone with 20 years in the auto sales biz.

[Ovaltine]

Kia came out with a 5 door Sephia and called it a Spectra because the Sephia had such a bad rep. That was told to me by a Kia factory rep. You see I sold these little beautys for years and I know this stuff first hand.

Sort of like the Escort--->Focus, Tempo--->Contour, and Taurus--->Fusion name transformations, eh?

 

Hold the flames.... I know that all those name switches weren't just because the preceding model were lemons. BUT.... as the owner of two of those models and knowing many people who owned the others, each came with their own set of "quality baggage" that Ford was MORE than happy to leave behind as the new name took/takes off. That cannot be denied.

 

Did anyone ever see a stand alone Kia dealer? I have not even though I know ther must be some somewhere.

First off, I purchased my Spectra through an exclusive KIA dealer. There's at least 3 of them in the metro-Detroit area that I'm aware of.

 

Secondly, this info is per the American International Automobile Dealers Assoc. (AIADA) website back in Sept 2005:

 

http://www.aiada.org/article.asp?id=48618

 

MB = Marty Bernstein, Editor of AIADA

PB = Peter Butterfield, CEO of KIA NA at the time.

 

MB: How many dealers does Kia have in the U.S.?

 

PB: We have 650. The really significant thing we committed to our dealer organization four years ago was that we were not going to add more dealers. Four years ago we had 610 or 620 dealers and our volume is up dramatically and we are holding the same number of dealers. Our business strategy is to drive through put up, not drive volume by adding stores. So far we have been successful with this.

 

MB: What was the time period of conversation/switch to exclusive dealerships?

 

PB: The program, called the Circle of Excellence program was launched in April of 2003 and over 24 months. I don’t think, Marty, that any manufacturer ever has shifted their dealer network that dramatically from duals to exclusive.

 

MB: That represents a hefty investment per store doesn’t it?

 

PB: Yes, it’s a $3 to $5 million dollar investment per store. But we were able to move quickly because the dealer body trusted us when we said, “We are going to grow our volume, but not by adding dealerships.†This created an environment that was a low risk, but high reward investment opportunity. We have stuck to our word and have not added more dealers.

 

MB: I’ve never, ever heard of such a quick turnaround …

 

PB: We are very proud that our retailers responded so quickly and dramatically to the Kia franchise. That is, I believe, one of the key reasons why we are accelerating growth now. We are delivering most of our cars through exclusive dealerships.

 

MB: Changes in the dealer organization structure and organization usually foster acrimonious, confrontational relationships with dealers which results in lots of law suits – did this happen to Kia?

 

PB: We had 40 exclusive dealers in 2003. We now have 400! Without one lawsuit; not one litigation, not one challenge filed. We were very sensitive when we rolled out the program and involved our dealer council and the entire dealer body for more than one year of work before the program was introduced. In February of 2002, when I took over as CEO of Kia, I told the dealers we were going to require exclusivity in the future.

 

MB: That caused a little tension, didn’t it?

 

PB: Not really. The dealers knew for a year it was coming. I worked with the dealer council before it was introduced and went on the road to talk to our dealers in 10 cities. I told them what we planned on doing, and asked them what they thought about it? We sat and discussed it in every major Kia market in the country. Two months later we announced we were going to do it. We involved every key dealer in America eight months before we launched. Changes had been made based on their input. By the time they saw it, they knew it. There were zero issues in implementation. It was a very friendly dealer way to launch a major change initiative. The success has been proven.

 

 

 

The car is dead last in resale value and in the crash tests. Therefore the usual Kia customer is a credit criminal who cannot get financed on anything else. Kia has big rebates on inexpensive cars so dealers can manufacture big down payments on them. S the bank has less risk. Most of the "second chance" credit services you see on TV will wind up slamming you in a Kia because of this. Just my 2 cents from someone with 20 years in the auto sales biz.

I think that there's a very good chance that both the overall resale values and safety ratings will climb on KIAs as the remainder of their model line is updated over the next 12 months.

 

Out of curiousity, what year did you last sell KIAs? I suspect that much of what you describe is anchored in the reality of the late '90s, but I encourage you to visit one of the dedicated dealerships described above and look over the new product line over before you deem purchasers "credit criminals".

 

Brain dead or not, Dan Lienert isn't the only making statements similar to this:

 

"The Watch List

-- Hyundai and Kia: Sales will continue to go up, more upscale customers will come to the brands, and Toyota will continue to fear the Koreans more than any other competitors."

 

http://www.forbes.com/2005/12/12/automotiv...automotive.html

 

also.....

 

January 8, 2006

 

DETROIT (Reuters) - South Korea's Kia Motors would aim for a double-digit percentage rise in U.S. vehicle sales this year driven by six new product offerings including the all-new Sedona and Optima models, extending its growth streak to a 13th year, the chief operating officer of its U.S. operations said.

 

In 2005, Kia sold 275,851 vehicles in the United States, up 2.5 percent, for a market share of 1.6 percent.

 

That makes the fledgling South Korean brand bigger than Japan's Mazda Motor Corp., Mitsubishi Motors Corp. and Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd.'s Subaru brand.

http://www.boston.com/business/articles/20...s_sales_growth/

 

 

 

Yep, yep, yep. The ranks of "credit criminals" must just be a swellin' out there!

 

 

-Ovaltine

Edited January 27, 2006 by Ovaltine

[yamahaR1]

Man Ovaltine, I am impressed with your knowledge of Kia/Hundai. :mellow: I think if you printed all your posts and added them to a resume, you could get a high paying job for Kia! :lol: Keep up the good work...........These hard headed UAW members have to get it through their heads that the Big 3 is in Big trouble, and they need to change. Later

[96towncarcartier]

KIA is junk.

 

Simple fact.

 

Having seen quite a few up close and personal, and felt the lack of quality personally... their idea of "leather seats" feels like a thick VINYL. Yeah, real premium there.

 

Let's see...the new cars sell for LESS THAN $10,000....

 

Uh huh. Real premium brand.

 

Rate of depreciation is around 40% PER YEAR.

 

Having been a salesman in new/used cars... I met ALOT of folks who tried and tried and tried and tried to offload their KIA or Hyundai... only to be TRAPPED because the car was worth a fraction of what they owed.

 

One fella owed $9,000. His car was worth about $2,000. The car was less than THREE years old.

 

Don't give me a line of guff about these Korean things. "If it sounds too good to be true....." certainly applies to these cars.

 

Even if their quality really is there, they still fully believe in P.T. Barnum, who said, "there is a sucker born every minute."

 

Don't be the sucker.

 

As for the UAW's statement, they're RIGHT. When you buy a foreign car...the money GOES OVERSEAS. It doesn't help America ONE BIT.

 

Toyoder likes to talk about 200,000 Americans they employ.

 

Let's see... Ford, GM and Chrysler employ 4.1 MILLION AMERICANS.

 

THAT's ONE HELL OF A BIG DIFFERENCE.

 

Man Ovaltine, I am impressed with your knowledge of Kia/Hundai. :mellow: I think if you printed all your posts and added them to a resume, you could get a high paying job for Kia! :lol: Keep up the good work...........These hard headed UAW members have to get it through their heads that the Big 3 is in Big trouble, and they need to change. Later

[yamahaR1]

KIA is junk.

 

 

 

As for the UAW's statement, they're RIGHT. When you buy a foreign car...the money GOES OVERSEAS. It doesn't help America ONE BIT.

 

Toyoder likes to talk about 200,000 Americans they employ.

 

Let's see... Ford, GM and Chrysler employ 4.1 MILLION AMERICANS.

 

THAT's ONE HELL OF A BIG DIFFERENCE.

Man you guys are stubborn, look around, wake up and smell the coffee. It is not the 1970's when you guys controlled everything and foreign cars were junk. I would challenge you guys to test drive comparible Japanese/Korean cars with the comparible car from the US. There is no longer the big quality difference that the US enjoyed during the 70's and '80's. If anything, the Japanese cars are now more reliable than the US cars and therefore offer longer warranties and the like. Ford is cutting 30,000 jobs and how many plants, GM is in the same boat. I think you guys need to wake up! That 4.1 million # will not be accurate in the near future. And by the way, if every American felt the way you guys do, there would be no problem would there? Get your blinders off and try to realize that in many ways we need to catch up to them now. If I bought one of those cars built by Americans, I would be supporting Americans plain and simple. That is better than buying a big 3 car built in Mexico or something. Is the Japenese car "foreign" when it is built here in the US? Brainwashed Union guys, that is what I say.

[paulk105]

This thread is a perfect example of why Ford is in the crapper. Too many of the supposed Ford fans have gotten too comfortable in the role of Ford apologist. I'm guilty of that myself. I've been driving Ford vehicles since I could drive and right now, they have NOTHING that I would be interested in buying.

 

I refuse to be the proxy laughing stock for Ford by being one of their apologists. Here Ovaltine is telling you about what he likes about his car and instead of saying "Gee, maybe Ford should incorporate that" You Ford fans go off on another long apology streak. "My Kia has puddle lights." "Yeah, well Kia sucks and my Ford Fusion comes with tires so its obviously better."

 

If the city slickers want fold in mirrors, then by God, give it to them. Christ, just because you don't use them doesn't mean everyone else doesn't either. I've seen many a city car moping around with its drver side mirror dangling. If Kia can understand that this is a handy feature for its customers, then I have to wonder why Ford can't.

 

Doesn't it seem to be the the Asian companies trying to gain market share by giving their customers more for less and Ford seems to want to gain market share by giving customers less for more $$$.

 

I certainly hope that Ford pulls out if this and my heart goes out to all the good people who lost their jobs. But I fear that even if Ford gets out of this, they'll forget the lesson as soon as they do and they'll be here all over again.

 

 

Also, buying an American made Honda definitely keeps more money in the US than buying a Ford made in Mexico. This country's strength begins and ends with good jobs. Show me where the money comes flooding in when it's a worker in Mexico getting the paycheck.

--Paul

Edited January 28, 2006 by paulk105