mrballsonya
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Posts posted by mrballsonya
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Wouldnt be much of a tradesman if you can find one that would be willing to work for that wage.
I agree.
Things are bad out there in the job market for tradesman, but not that bad. This falls under the age old adage...."you get what you pay for". If Ford wants to hire $14 an hour tradesmen, so be it. But I hope they don't expect any type of craftsmanship from someone making slightly more than a cashier at Costco.
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I've only read little pieces and highlights from the proposed contract, But I have to say given the financial state of Ford and the current climate of declining U.S. manufacturing wages.... I think the Bargaining team did a hell of a job.
I was expecting wage concessions, the elimination or extreme reform of the GEN bank, Increased health care costs and I really figured Ford would try and push for the Two trade maintenance model (Mechanical & Electrical). Well I'm glad to say I was dead wrong on the wage concessions and Two trade maintenance model, And the Gen bank reform is much better than I expected. The increased health care costs are about what I expected.
As a Ford tradesman, I'm very pleased with this contract..... It's much better than what I had envisioned.
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Hasn't this always been the case?If you never hired in production you can never go back to where you never came from?I don't see anything changing.
I agree. I hired in as a tradesman, and unless the (Gen Bank trades to production) scenario happens... I have no recall rights to take a production job.
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Thanks for the link Furious.
I've gotta say, on the surface the agreement looks pretty good to me.
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With all of the concessions that G.M. & Chrysler and soon Ford won, when do the discounts on the vehicles start taking place? The public wants to blame the UAW for car prices, because of our wages and benefits, who will they blame next. They don’t have a clue that the cars made in Mexico are just as high in price as those made here.
It really doesn't matter. Until Ford starts designing vehicles that appeal to everybody.... we're all screwed. With the exception of a few select Ford Models (I can count them on one hand).... It wouldn't matter how much we sold the cars for. The Toyota loving American public could care less...... Wow, the very stylish "Unreliable" Ford is $2000 less...... I'll gladly pay more for a... bland " high quality Toyota'.
I hope this "TOYOTA" mentality will change, but I'm not holding my breath.
If we have any hope of regaining market share, we need to build upon the success of the Fusion. It's obvious that the American consumer could care less about where the cars are built. As long as their Mexican Built Fusion is as reliable as their U.S. built Expedition....they won't care. Unfortunately the Fusion has set a precedent, that doesn't involve UAW workers.
Fifteen Hundred $30 an hour UAW workers, can't compete with 5,000 Mexicans making $5 an hour. It's just simple economics.
The average American consumer could care less about where their products come from, as long as the goods are cheap and semi-reliable.
Welcome to the "NEW" Wal Mart World fellas'. Move to Mexico or China, if you want a Manufacturing Job.... Otherwise be happy flipping Burgers, or greeting white trash at WalMart.
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MISMANAGEMENT!
Yes, Mismanagement. If a group of your employees, miss the same day every year......year after year then you have to start looking at the root cause and adjust to it accordingly. As an Employee, I do agree that it is our duty to let management know in advance that you'd like a certain day off.
Here is a taste of the real world. I scheduled a staff meeting last thursday and told all employees if anyone was 1 second late they would be sent home. I sent 50% of staff home with no pay.I'm sure that was a very productive meeting.
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Your kids are your worry not Fords. Fords concern is to ensure a future for the company which in turn ensures a future for you and your kids.
Ask all those at the plants that have been closed how they feel about it? You will get a totally different mindset than before I garauntee!
So true, Ford could care less about my kids. But they should care about something that disrupts their operations every year and the core reason of why it's occurring. They need to figure out in advance (canvass) if they'll have the manpower necessary to run. My kids will only be little once, until they grow out of Halloween I won't work a Halloween afternoon shift. This never has been an issue in the past, as I was either on day shift or midnights. But if the issue ever comes up, I'll take a personal day. Situations like this are exactly what personal days are for.
I do work (GEN) at a plant that has closed (Wixom), and back when we were running an afternoon shift we also had Halloween problems. I thought it was ridiculous that we weren't running because of the mismanagement and Awols, both sides were at fault.
My main point is, If there is a man power problem every year... on a certain day. The Company needs to start realizing that they need to plan better or just deal with the same problem year after year.
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I realize Ford is a business, but it's also a business that employs people. Most people have kids. If you have Kids, then you'll probably want to spend Halloween with them. How much longer will it take the Company to realize, that people enjoy spending time with their kids? Halloween isn't a holiday, but I dare you to try and tell that to a kid. Special times for kids, should be considered special times for their parents.
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http://www.soldiersofsolidarity.com/
The Chrysler Contract .pdf ( Pages from the actual Chrysler Agreement)
page on gen is labeled 209 on the bottom,and is 5 pages after cola fold in page.
Thanks for the link Bigred.
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You can also choose to sit at home and get 85% of your pay.
:happy feet:
That would be fantastic news for some of us. Can anyone else confirm if this is true?
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Very...Very...sad. My heart goes out to his family.
I'm sure this could've happened to anyone that works plant maintenance. We never think it'll happen to us....but yet again it does. Robots don't care about your kids, conveyors won't help your wife pay the bills after you're gone.
All of us need to remember that Ford will go on without us. There is nothing more important, than going home after work to see your family. I don't know a person in the world, that would want to tell this man's kids that they'll never be able to hug dad again. This truly is sad.
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I was wondering if there is a Christmas bonus in the new GM contract, and if so how much? I wonder if we will have a christmas bonus in our contarct...
I don't see anything wrong with skye7's question.
We've been thrown a Christmas bone in the past. So is this pittance going to continue? Obviously from skye7's "Ridiculous Question" I infer that he is very ungrateful for having a job
. I know we're all going to get reamed in this contract, but the question is......will our companies enact "Ebenezer Scrooge" type holiday benefits or not?Some posters on this board are real TOOLS. If you don't know the answer to a legitimate question..... just STFU.
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What special skills or training qualifies autoworkers for their wages? (crickets chirping)......
The wages are based on labor getting together and refusing to work if their demands were not met. Times are different now. If you want to be the last autoworker in the U.S., fine. I personally would like to see a wage correction and have jobs in the future.
I believe in one tier! Drop everyone's wages to a reasonable level. If you don't like it, strike. There will be a line around the block of replacement workers.
You are absolutely correct, why should hard working Americans demand a living wage? What a bunch of assholes we are. All this time.... giving our lives and bodies to the companies we work for...what fools we've been.
I guess we should just all roll over and concede to the fact that Chinese workers only get paid $.50 an hour and consequently we must somehow find a way to compete with that. Damn the fact, that we have substantial financial obligations that are based on a decent living wage. Maybe we should just all wave our white flags in defeat, and default on all our mortgages, car payments and other financial commitments. Believe me, it won't just be us that suffer from such wage concessions.
Roboto... you sir are a koolaid drinking fool. The current U.S. economy depends on the middle class. Once the middle class stops it's discretionary spending, the economy will collapse. Once middle class workers start to worry more about providing shelter and feeding their family, than buying that flat screen Tv or that Chinese made whatever. The U.S. will cease being a superpower. Gas prices are over $3 a gallon, natural gas and other utilities have all skyrocketed in the past 5 years...in general the cost of living in the U.S. has gone up, and yet we are expected to take one for the team...and let our rich get richer and our middle class get poorer.......BULL SHIT!!!!
As I recall, one of the founding principals of our country was "Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" not "Shitty Life, Some Liberty, and the pursuit to be subservient to the ultra wealthy".
At some point our country was hijacked, and taken away from the average U.S. citizen. The Current U.S. government has become a cesspool of individuals, who will represent whom ever "donates" the most money to their coffers. Our Government no longer serves our interests, we serve theirs.
If things continue in this downward spiral, we will be the first generation in U.S history to have the dubious honor of seeing our kids having a worse quality of life than we did.
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Ha Ha Ha... my diabolical friend LONGBALL is back in town. The last time we debated, it was over the profit sharing payout of 2003-4 or 5...I really don't remember.
What I do remember is that your figures turned out to be correct, although you never did reveal the formula that enabled you to figure that out. I still stand here with egg on my face...... and I'm still just as "profit Sharing" misinformed as I ever was.
Unfortunately one thing that I argued about has been proven correct over the last couple of years.... and that is what a lousy president good ole' GW has been. :poke:
Welcome back.
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And we have Livonia people in GEN that were put there by Wixom people. Wixom people that were not needed, put 50 working Livonia people out of work and closer to the street.
I understand Ford is making plants take in apps where they are needed. But it pisses me off to no end that I have waited to these jobs to finally open up and people from other plants are getting them.
Under this system a guy could have went on trades last year at Wixom with 2000 seniority and will now move into a job ahead of people with more seniority and more time waiting on the list.
Welcome to Wixom circa. 2001.......
Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.
Wixom welcomed displaced ford workers from Flat Rock, Dearborn, Michigan Truck....Etc. We didn't need these workers. Everyone that was working the floor knew that unless we were awarded new product.... the writing was on the wall. I lost my partner and was bumped off my shift by one of 7 new Michigan Truck Millwrights that we accommodated. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't pissed at the time, but as I got to know the individuals... I realized that they were as helpless as I was. None of them wanted to be there, they all wanted to go home.
I just hope that you guys give the Wixom transplants a chance and treat them with the respect that you would want your self. I don't think any of us should feel secure as we ride this crazy wave, called Ford Motor Company.
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It would make a difference.Think about 80,000?Thats alot.That would keep some or most of these downweeks off the calender at some of these plants.
Yes to me and you 80,000 vehicles is a lot, but to Ford..... 80,000 vehicles is just one shift at one plant.
My 80,000 figure is probably inflated anyway, as most Ford employees can't afford to buy a new vehicle every year. Who knows what the actual employee sales are per year, but I'm sure it's probably more in the 20-30 thousand range. 20-30 thousand cars a year, will not resurrect Ford Motor Company. Ford has to come out with products that appeal to the other 200 Million potential buyers. Ford has made definite improvements in this area in the last couple of years, but they still have a lot of holes in their product lineup and an uphill climb to catch back up to Toyota and GM.
Please don't take this the wrong way Guys, I'm not trying to argue that If you work for ford you shouldn't feel obligated to buy a Ford. I do think you should try and support the company that supports you. If Ford is making a great product then by all means buy it...tell all your friends to buy one as well. But you are a Fool if you think that the 30% of other makes parked in a Ford parking lot, are to blame for all of Fords woes.
Employee purchase plans are a benefit, what does it tell you about the current product lineup....when employees aren't taking advantage of a benefit? To me it says.....Damn...why would someone have paid more money to drive an X rather than a vehicle from the company he works for.
As a Ford U.A.W. worker, I also have a great moral quandary in buying anything made in Mexico. To me it sure seems like we're all shooting ourselves in the Foot each time we support Ford by purchasing a MEXICAN built Fusion. Do you think when Ford decides to move your product to Mexico or China, that they'll give two shits about how many F-150's or Fusions you bought from them? Keep dreaming fella's.
Next time you see a fellow co-worker in a Non-Ford vehicle.......Don't be an ass, just ask them.... Why? I'm sure you guys will hear some F.U's, but I bet you'll also get some sincere answers....some replies that might help to explain why Ford Motor Company is in such a precarious position right now.
Ford has way bigger problems, than employees not buying their products. I don't think we should be accusing our fellow factory workers of treason.....I think we should be focusing our ire at the inept upper management that drove this great company into the ground.
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If Ford was making great products, then this would be a NON-issue...... Of course all Ford employees would be driving Fords.
Right now, Ford is not making products that appeal to all facets of the automotive market. Obviously appealing to all facets of the market is the holy grail of all the automotive companies, and I'm sure this is an unobtainable goal.... BUT......currently there are other companies out there that seem to be doing a better job at appealing to the every day Joe than Ford.
How do we spin the 22% drop in retail sales we saw last month. This is not about us (the hourly Ford worker). 80,000 ford employees could all buy Toyota's next year....and it wouldn't matter. In the end game, it wouldn't matter if every single Ford N.A. employees bought Toyota products. As long as Ford isn't putting out appealing products to the 200 Million other potential buyers in the U.S., then we're all doomed.
I applaud the sentiment and company patriotism, but unless you and your friends and family are planning on buying 300,000 F150's, 150,000 Tauruses, and 150,000 Focuses.....It's not going to help Ford.
Ford designers, engineers, marketing analysts and upper management simply have to do a better job.
We've proven that we can assemble a good car.....unfortunately we can't help how unappealing the said product is to the American consumer. It's all about product Fella's,... and right now Ford is seriously lacking.
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Here is another good start, stay the hell out of WalMart! I hate that place. It's a cancer everywhere they pop up.
I agree.
Stay...far ...far away, from this "low price at any cost" abortion of a company.
It's been 5 years since I or any of my immediate family has stepped foot in a "China-Mart".
I hope sooner, rather than later....the average working class laymen will start to understand the corolation between Wal-Mart's low prices and the erosion of good paying manufacturing jobs here in the U.S.
We as U.S. Tax Payers and citizens are all currently paying for Wal-Mart's low prices, whether it be in subsidization of tens of thousands of Wal Mart employees health care coverage, or the diminished value of the U.S. dollar (partly due to the huge trade deficit with China).
Wal-Mart's insatiable appetite for all things made in China, and their poor wage and benefit packages have both helped to create a working middle class that now makes less than they did 10 years ago.
Sam Walton is probably rolling in his grave right now. Sam was a very patriotic businessmen, he believed what was good for the U.S. ...was also good for him. It really is ashame to see what his Company has become, under the reign of his greedy kids. Screw America.....whats good for the Walton kids...is good for the Walton Kids.
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Is it your contention that every factory worker, and/or union person should be compensated nearly as much as the UAW members?
Yes and no. No I don't think every factory worker should automatically make $25+ an hour. I think the Union and Company need to adapt some form of merit based and performance based incentives into the pay package. Why should some mindless, lazy, unreliable worker make the same amount as someone that works their ass off, is never late, is attentive and aspires to put out a quality product? They shouldn't. This has been one of my main issues with the Union in general, the average hourly worker really has no incentive or need to work hard. It really is a no win situation for a hard worker, once the bosses find out that you're a good worker....they reward you with more work.
How much do you believe a non-skill factory worker should make and what type of benefits should they receive?I believe a fare wage for a hard working non-skill U.S. factory worker should be in the range of $15-$25 an hour.....depending on the product they produce and how profitable their employers are. As far as benefits go, I don't believe that any American should be without health coverage, so that is a given. Also dental is a must (no need to start looking like the Brits :D ) and I think some form of retirement benefit.
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Good news.....Maybe.
It'll be interesting to see if this agreement will be "a pattern agreement" that will also be adopted by Ford and Chrysler. It sounded like the big three all had different agendas in this contractual year.
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You are so foolish, the UAW has more strength than ever. Many have 10's of thousands socked away in their 401K's that is out of control of the companies. They can draw a loan from them at any time to sustain their households. A few here and their may lose some but we will not let our brothers go without necessities. Their will be food drops if needed, and in the A.M. I will walk the picket line with my GM brothers. Quit focusing on your short comings as an excuse to justify trying to support people losing everything. You worthless piece of sh-t!!
Well said Furious.
It really is ashame that in todays America, there are so may people that share Mark8LSC's mentality. You all know the mentality... "why should he make X dollars when I only make Y dollars". I can't believe that seemingly intelligent people don't realize what's going on. Corporate America has obviously pitted us against ourselves, and they're doing a fantastic job of perpetuating the "wage race to the bottom" mentality.
It's bad enough that the U.S. has about half of the Manufacturing capacity as it did back in the 70's, but when you couple that with all the lost jobs, huge pay cuts, and sky high gas and energy prices......you end up in an economy where the Canadian dollar is now worth the same as ours.
So now you have a situation where the majority of the working middle class are making less than they did 5 years ago, and as an extra kick in the ass....we can't buy as much with our devalued dollar. The only purported advantage of a devalued U.S. dollar, is that supposedly it helps out our manufacturers. I'll believe that, once they stop moving our jobs to China and Mexico.
My only hope is that people like Mark8LSC, start to realize that.....whats good for the Middle class U.A.W. worker, is also good for the small business owner, Loan officer, Big box Retailer, manufacturer and real estate agent. When we make more money, we spend more money.... and the U.S. economy benefits. When we make less money, and default on our mortgages, car payments, and credit cards......the U.S. economy suffers.
I'm sure you can make all kinds of arguments, about how Wall street and the rich drive our economy......but that's complete B.S. The middle class rules, through our spending habits. We drive this Economy, we are the majority. We could shut down Wal Mart in Months, if we stopped shopping there. When the middle class suffers......so does the U.S. economy.
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Why, then, aren't you an astrophysicist or a brain surgeon or a Bill Gates or an oil magnate? Why are you not counting your millions or travelling the world, or in the lab curing cancer?
Were you too lazy to go to school/be an entrepeneur/put forth the effort?
I'm not asking this to offend you, but think about it -- not everyone has the intelligence to be a doctor or a rocket scientist. Or the luck to be born into family wealthy enough to ensure that they get a university education no matter how bad their marks were in school. Or a myriad of other reasons that someone isn't one of society's elite.
Take a look at your own life -- and analyze in earnest how you got to where you are. Stable homelife? Parents that made good money? Did well in school? Had a teacher that helped you get over that big learning impediment? That boss that gave you a chance?
Yes, your life is yours to make; but even if you're intelligent and hardworking, shit happens in life. Does this mean that you don't deserve to make a decent wage because you're the person stuck flipping burgers? How wil anyone ever be able to improve themselves if it's everything they can do to just survive?
Well said sparky!
Not every union worker is a helpless, lazy, drooling idiot. Some of us actually have a good work ethic and also possess the acumen to verbally spar with misinformed, jealous, morons.
To Scotty... I could care less what you think about Unions, but don't belittle us with your overtly inflammatory statements. You're obviously hoping to incite retaliatory responses, so here's mine..... :boring:
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If the sockmarket collapses, everything is out the window
One things for certain. They day after the SOCKMARKET collapses, there will be a lot of cold feet in the investment community... literally and figuratively.
Sorry Imawhosure, I just couldn't resist such a great typo. :D
But enough about the hilarious typo. That's an interesting take on the failure of SSI privatization. I don't pretend to know much about this subject, but that sounds like a very reasonable explanation.
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My father-in-law retired in 2000 and receives $2600 per month after taxes. His social security kicks in this month so Ford reduces it's pension to 1200 as he gets 1400 a month from SSI. I don't think $2600 a month for LIFE cannot be termed as fixed income. It's not going up or down regardless of inflation.........that's a fixed income.
I guess we should all be grateful that some companies still do offer pensions. BUT.... of all the different companies and trade union pensions, the UAW Big 3 pensions have to be in the bottom 10%. $2600 a month is terrible, I've heard figures of $5000 and up for some of the Trade Unions.
If the Big 3 are still around in 25 years, and somehow the pensions are still funded by the companies.....what the hell are we going to do when half of the pension (SSI) is gone? Can we all look forward to subsiding on $1200 a month?
What a bunch of sell outs
in Ford Employee Forum
Posted
When you have virtually no leverage in a negotiation, something has to give. In the case of this contract it maintained the greater good for all current Ford employees. I'm not happy about the two tier Bull Shit, but what else can we do about it? Should we strike because everyone that is used to making a living wage...continues to make a living wage? I've got financial obligations to meet that are based on $30 an hour, a new hire starting at $14 an hour would adjust his lifestyle accordingly. For Christ sake we are competing against Mexicans making $3 an hour and Chinese making $1 an hour. I'm just thankful that the Union was able to get some future product guarantees and not make any wage concessions.
If you want to call out the true sell outs..... just look to our government (past and current).