DeezNutz
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Posts posted by DeezNutz
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Obviously we have yet to see what this new agreement actually holds. After reading the previous posts I'll share what my thoughts are, some of which have already been made.
1. Are there any NEW new product commitments? I already have a contract, and a modification to that contract, which promises me a new product and a new body shop. Why would I give up anything for something I'm already supposed to be getting?!?
2. With regards to arbitration, and I'll not claim to know anything about this... If the IUAW negotiation team brings a wage concession (just an example) to the membership how do you believe an arbitrator would find? If the IUAW and Ford feel it's what we need, it's what we're going to get! How much do you trust the IUAW to listen to the membership? If they actually listened to us we wouldn't be having this discussion now would we?!? The point being that if the two parties at that table agree on something, regardless of what the membership wants, that's what we're going to get. An arbitrator has nothing to arbitrate if those two parties agree.
3. Giving up the right to strike is completely outrageous. Make no mistake, THE RIGHT TO STRIKE IS THE ONLY TOOL THE UAW HAS in a negotiation.
Let's assume for a moment that we do give up the right to strike. Does that mean I won't have to pay the portion of my union dues that go into the strike fund? The strike fund would be unnecessary wouldn't it?
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I find it insulting that the company doesn't have to tell me until April 1st (I think that's the date anyway) when they're going to schedule the shutdown weeks, one of which is almost always the week of the Fourth of July. They only give me three months notice for my vacation yet I'm expected to give them almost a year... if I wanted an April vacation?!? I suppose the next step is that when I'm fortunate enough to get an approved vacation I'll have to be on call and able to arrive at my plant within 30 minutes of notification!
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To those who are thinking vote no,
Have you had your head in the sand or what? I think your thinking inside the bubble of good times. Read the paper, watch the news, think back to the Congressional hearings. These are bad times. Would you rather it not pass with Ford, then GM gets a shot to pass a pattern bargaining agreement?Do you think a Bankruptcy Judge will give you even close to a fair deal? Ask anyone that was around in the late 70's early 80's what took place. They gave up more then to survive, and when things got better the IUAW got those concessions back and more just between then and now. When times are good you can give me all the best and I will work hard to earn it, and feel great about taking it. This is survival. Ron, Bob King, and our Negotiators got us the best they could, with what they feel would save the hand that feeds us. This is the best job I've ever had and could hope to have. I do not want to loose it. I am willing to do my part now for a better stronger Ford Motor Co. & a better, smarter, stronger UAW later.
Ford pays me
The UAW saves me.
Pipefitter, I usually respect your opinion, but in this you're wrong. Get my head out of the sand?!? I've stayed away from this argument, but let me explain why I'm voting NO.
Let's address the arguments about GM and if they had negotiated the mods. This agreement doesn't come anywhere near what GM needs. Regardless of whether or not this passes. whatever more GM gives up Ford will be asking for in a couple of months. Remember whether this passes or not you're going to be back here again before the end of the year.
What happens if GM goes bankrupt? Do you know the impact it will have on Ford? We'll be facing the same fate or borrowing money from the gov't. If you make these mods now what more are you willing to give up when the gov't demands greater cuts? Do you honestly believe they won't?
Product commitments. Let me see if I got this straight. If I vote for these mods I'm going to get the same product commitments that you promised me if I voted for the '07 agreement. Gee, there's a deal! Also I'd like it put in writing where, when, and what. There are three plants that believe they have the Transit or Transit Connect coming to their plant. Most assembly plants were promised new body shops and products... based on economic conditions. Do you believe that clause has been taken out?
Shared sacrifice. Don't get me started. One of the biggest responsibilities/liabilities is our legacy costs. I'm sacrificing my cost of living, annual bonus, 2 holidays, and Christmas bonus. Why aren't the retirees giving back their annual bonus they got last contract? Why aren't they sacrificing toward the cost of their own health care? Is it not in their best interest to be concerned about the welfare of Ford as well? Where is their pension and health care going to be if Ford goes bankrupt? Those future VEBA payments won't mean jack if that happens!
Shared sacrifice (part two). What has the international union sacrificed? At the last concon they voted to give themselves raises, albeit against the wishes of Ron Gettelfinger. My suggestion-- Why don't they lower our monthly union dues a half hour a month and make a sacrifice to help me out. Last I checked there was almost 1bln in the strike fund that we won't ever need.
Give backs. I already had a contract with the company... in the 10yrs I've been with Ford I've had several. Since I hired in it's been nothing but givebacks. In '99 it was the Visteon spinoff. How's that getting out of parts plan working out now?!? Since then it's been health care and cost of living and a number of other things I can't think of off the top of my head. At what point do you draw the line?
Common sense. Why,at this point when we're not selling vehicles, do we need to cut break times to increase production? Simply put, to eliminate more jobs.
Lastly, when this passes, look at what you've given up in the last two years. What's taken the union decades to achieve has been given back almost without argument in two years. How long is it going to take to get those benefits back? If times were wonderful and Ford was making record profits would they open the contract in the middle to increase your benefits?
Get my head out of the sand?!? Even though we may not agree why don't you quit being a presumptuous ass and treating me like I haven't thought about it. Everybody is entitled to their opinion and their vote. I vote no because all I've done the last ten years is give back to the company and honestly this time I don't believe these modifications will have any impact on the survivability of Ford.
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Trust our union.
I had that kind of naive idealistic trust when I hired in 10yrs ago. Since then I've done nothing but give things back, several times in the middle of a contract. I've never felt like I was getting all the details when voting on a contract, and as we've recently seen there's always language and clauses that aren't presented to us. Wouldn't you have liked to vote on the suspension of JSP?
I can tell you from personal experience that I've been outright lied to by the IUAW. While that may not be your experience you can't deny that you never get the full details of what you're voting on and that additionally when you try to find them it's so difficult as to be damn near impossible. That's why a majority of people are on this forum and others... to try to share that information.
Trust the union?!? At this point IMO that's fool's game.
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So how much is our union dues gonna go down since everybody needs to give up something?
Used to be a proud UAW member!
Since it sounds like we're losing our current COLA instead of just freezing it... they'll go down $1.98 a month. In order to cut costs they're going to take the U out of UAW. It's just too damn expensive to print on all these new contracts every year!
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Buyout are gone.. You had your chance.
ETAP is gone.. Not many used it..
You aren't getting a car or cash...
The UAW is negotiating you farther down into the shitter.... :shades:
It is better from a business standpoint, for the automakers, to just eliminate the dead weight of the UAW through layoffs or justified plant closures. You that are left, WILL take concessions, pay cuts, benefit cuts etc and continue to whine as usual, but will keep on coming to work[even for 10 bucks an hour], because most have nothing else, Ford is ALL you know! All the years you had ETAP, most chose to work the O/T. Now, where is that O/T? Where is that ETAP? Those that used ETAP and have something they can fall back on, kudos to you.. Those, like myself, that used the ETAP while I was employed at FMC, and took the buyout, congratulations, and extra kudos to you.. These people[myself included] had the metal to throw away that big blue pacifier and move on... I now have the career job that I have always wanted, I have ABSOLUTE job security, I am making more money than you, I CAN afford a new car, in fact, any new car,[just bought a new Toyota Tundra] and I am able to spend a ton of time with my family... What more could a man ask for? Here's a tip from a former UAW worker... Dump the union and negotiate your own wage and benefits deal with Ford, then you'll no longer be able to whine about whats in it for you....I thank Ford for offering the ETAP program and the Educational buyout. Now, with all that said, I am ready to be flamed by all of the jealous, whiny, now part-time UAW Ford holdouts.. I welcome it! Don't hate the player, hate the game! I'm livin' it bro's, be happy for me.. Peace :happy feet: :shades:
You obviously haven't thrown away the "big blue pacifier" otherwise you wouldn't be posting on a FORD EMPLOYEE forum. Congratulations, you've moved on from Ford. I'm certain Ford can move on without pricks like you!
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Can you impeach a UAW president?
Anybody recall even voting for him?!? I'm sure I had a representative voting there voting for me.... he just wasn't representing my choice.
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28481474/
Okay, I have some suggestions to help these states out. First I would like to begin by trimming 40% of the government employees whose salaries have contributed to economic shortfall. Secondly, I believe we should also close 40% of the schools in those states as well. Thirdly, for those teachers and gov't employees that still have jobs, I expect their unions to make sacrifices in wages and benefits in order to balance those state budgets. (A teacher with 20yrs in India is paid $4300 a year. Gov't employees make less!) We need to be competitive on a global scale! Next, I'd like the governors of those states asking for a "hand out" (not loan) to take salary of $1 a year. Lastly, those states will be expected to make weekly reports regarding their progress to a federal overlord.
Of course this is completely ridiculous, that's why I've made the comparison to what's expected of us. As the gov't has told us "everybody needs to make sacrifices"... well here's their chance to practice what they preach!! For all the shit we got asking for a $35 billion LOAN... I should see a hell of a lot of sacrifice to $1 trillion!!
Oh yeah, almost forgot! The "jobs bank" teachers participate in each summer... see ya!! Just wait until you see your new attendance policy!!
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See you in Hell building auto's!!!!
Damn it!!! You mean it gets worse?!? I thought this was hell already!
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What in the hell is the point of a four year contract, or a contract at all for that matter, if we're just going to constantly reopen it every time something happens? Did the UAW ask to have the contract reopened when we were making record profits? Do you honestly believe Ford would have done that for you? Why then should we constantly do it for them?
Lastly, I'd like to thank CSMJ for spelling "FUCK" for all of us. Now if he would concentrate on using there, their, they're appropriately we might actually be able to comprehend what he's saying. Almost forgot... <--- It's called a period. Use one!!
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just wanted to tell you capt,my poopy pants are yours,..this is dont tell,dont ask era we live in,so all this masculine bravado shit that you put on here isnt necessary ,you will still get your group hug every day :shades: :shades: :shades:....ps your gonna have to cut the rope off your soap some of the guys are feeling jilted
You have got to be the biggest retard to ever discover how to use the computer. I don't care that you spew your nonsense on a particular thread, I can ignore that. What bothers me is that you hijack six threads and the pretty much the entire employee forum with your stupidity. While often there is a lot of nonsense here, there are still people seeking legitimate info regarding their plants, contracts, and other relevant things. I won't resort to a personal attack but I'm certain I can speak for the majority of the people using this forum as a tool, instead of their drunken playground, when I say STFU and go away!
And a note for Captain723.... Stop playing in this idiot's sandbox and hopefully he'll take his helmet off and quit posting!
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This mass relief thing is going to be one giant cluster fuck. And while our bc's and chairman are running around the plant bitching about one or the other has or hasn't done... once again nobody is looking out for the membership. All of our elected officials need to quit the he said, she said bullshit politics and start doing the job they were elected to do.
Bottom line, the company based on language in the national contract, is going to do this. We've all seen how well Ford runs it's business and makes decisions, so how do you expect this will be handled. Spring, Tim Rowe needs to STFU and do his job. He doesn't need to be on the floor sowing more dissent towards our leadership. I don't know what the hell Nick wants, but anything is better than letting the company have free reign over this process.
I've been here a year and a half, and I'm so sick and tired of this bullshit. If we don't get a product or OHAP closes it's because our union leadership acts like a bunch of dumbasses that would rather play politics than represent the best interests of the membership. While not everybody may like the decisions that are made they (our elected officials) need to agree to something and present a united front, to the the company and the membership.
Anyway, that's my rant. Nothing, absolutely nothing, has been done to address the implementation of mass relief. Monday is going to be a mess, and while the membership is getting screwed over, our bc's will be blaming Nick, Nick will be blaming our bc's, and our area committeemen will be taking sides but unable to do anything.
Note to Nick and all the other elected officials-- IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU!
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I thought it was BS that the examples of lump sum payments they gave us at the time were based on 10% overtime. http://www.uaw.org/contracts/07/ford/hrly/ford_hr02.php So if you didn't read the fine print you would be expecting roughly $2100. I've been laid off a total of four weeks in my eligible time for this bonus... hell one more week and I'll have been laid off for 10% of my eligible time... never mind working 10% overtime!! I won't go so far as to say we were intentionally mislead... but if you've ever sat down to figure your budget most sensible people base it on a straight 40hr week don't they?
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Am I the only one that finds it a little disconcerting that in Ford's recent announcement regarding the retooling of plants and the acceleration of getting the European style vehicles here, that nothing was mentioned about either the Transit or OHAP? There has been a lot of speculation, especially with the recent Journal article, but nothing has officially been released by Ford or the union concerning either the product or the plant.
And before anybody mentions the promise of a new product in the 2007 contract, keep in mind that Ford left themselves an out regarding unforeseen economic conditions, or down turn. Sorry, I can't remember the exact wording, but it's there. And...and this is only my opinion, even if that weren't there, I believe we're going to see the contract re-opened in the first half of next year anyway.
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What changes?
Awww, c'mon now... you know better. You have to apply for your Super Secret Decoder Ring for the Ford Fanatic forum to get that answer. 
Oh yeah, you gotta know the secret handshake too! -
Well Like I stated Ass hat any time you wanna meet face to face over coffee and would like to discuss my choice in politics, or my Military Service I'll be more than happy! Until then as qouted earlier you need to S2 (Sit the Fuck down and Shut the Fuck up!). I would also like to point out econlizer it's real brave to post YBS (Your Bullshit) over the computer and hide behind a keyboard, it's quite another thing to meet face to face and TS(Talk Shit). So BFD (Big fucking deal) you have a computer and a keyboard I are not impressed. So then ben zona [/(That's Hebrew look it up!) until you can impress me with your physical stature or intelligence, you can just bend over and cram your head up your ass. I would however like to appologise to all NYL's (Nubile young Lovelies) for having to get down and dirty with this jackass however I can keep this up all day Econo weenie!
Intellectual stature?!? Let's see... qouted... appologise & looser (loser FYI). How about you quit thinking about new acronyms and start sounding out the words. It's called phonetics. BTW STFU LOL... Damn, see what you started.
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Deeznutz, as of the last group leader meeting, all we've been told so far that our last day of work will be Thursday, July 3rd. Supposedly Friday, July 4th will be a paid holiday with no conversion. I have heard some rumors that we will possibly have a third week (down week) added to that time in July but of course that is always subject to change. If I have any verifiable information regarding this I will post it. I hope this helps you.
Thank you for that info Spring. I'm sure that's the reason I'm hearing the rumors. It's something a little more concrete than just what's in the rumor mill anyway. I appreciate you keeping us posted.
Thank you to all that posted. It's nice to know that BON can actually be used to share info instead of airing dirty laundry and bashing each other!
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I'm hearing rumors that we're not going to get the first two weeks in July, but rather the second and third weeks. That means no conversion for the 4th, and a lot of people that are going to have to adjust vacation plans. Is anybody else hearing this at their plant? And does anybody know the date that Ford has to notify us when the shutdown will be scheduled? Thanks.
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NOW ON TO THE SUBJECT OF THE BUYOUTS PLEASE:
How much money do you get for winning a pissin' contest?!? Is it enough that I could afford to take one of the buyouts and live comfortably?
There, that covers everything nicely and stays on topic! :happy feet:
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It just gave me a headache to read, and I gave up!
This entire thread has been a headache to read. I'm concerned about my job and such things as fair trade agreements, immigration, and the economy. After reading through this thread and struggling to understand what in the hell some of these posters are trying to express, I'm going to add to my list of concerns the education of students in the state of Ohio. While I'm sure there are many at OHAP with something they need to express, I wish we could do it without looking like a bunch of illiterate dumbasses.
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The only thing I've discovered reading the OHAP threads is that we have too many illiterate people that are computer literate. To summarize what I've gotten in thirteen pages of whining is that half the posters think Jerry was worthless, half the posters think Nick is worthless, and that both are only interested in the job so that they can cut hogs for their friends and family. Let's not forget Robert... he just doesn't have any experience.
Now don't get me wrong, there are a few posters who's opinions I respect. However, there's a lot of crap being brought up from the consolidation that just simply doesn't matter anymore. What's done is done. I wasn't here for it; I didn't go through it; And honestly, I don't give a shit about it. I want the guy that's most capable of helping to secure my future and all you can do is bitch about who's cutting hogs. If this thread is any indication, with the options I have, I'm screwed.
Anybody care to start looking forward instead of looking backward?!?
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I don't think some of the younger generation realizes how good they have it with the job security they have have seen. I was laid off for 9 years in a row on top of other layoffs. This is more time on layoff than a lot of them have on active seniority roles.
Yeah, right. With Ford always playing catch up to the competition, assembly plant closings, Visteon/ACH debacle, the economy backsliding, energy costs rising, etc. etc. I don't realize the job security I have?!? Shit!! I don't know if I'm going to be here next year or next week, or even if Ford is going to be here in 20 more years. Tell me when I ever had job security to appreciate.
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UHH, did any one else notice that half of this tread has been deleted? In fact nearly my last 30 post have been deleted!
Don't worry Furious, you still hold the record as the most prolific poster in BON history!! :stats:
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All hail CAPTAIN723, The biggest Know-It-All on the Blue Oval Network.
Damn.... I bet CSMJ is going to be extremely disappointed!!
this says it all
in Ford Employee Forum
Posted
IMO giving up the right to strike, on anything, will be the greatest "concession" in the history of the UAW.