SOULJABOY
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Posts posted by SOULJABOY
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I'm not disagreeing with your theory, but only wanting to point out that the UAW stayed neutral in the Clinton/Obama race; and that Mr Gettelfinger is following tradition in retiring after this term because of the UAW age requirements.
I am sorry but I was under the impression that the only reason he was retireing was because of the fact that no other leader stayed past the age 63. I didn't realize they had a age requiement for this position.
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YOU, my good man, are paying for MORE than half of your insurance. And you never, ever see any credit for it.
Consider: In the '82 contract you gave up 25 cents toward your own health coverage (including inflation since, that's 57 cents)
During the '93 contract you gave up 24 cents (4 cents for the first COLA raise, 2 cents for each one after)(31 cents
adjusted for inflation)
For the 2005 contract you gave up a 3% raise (78 cents if you are production, 90 for skilled trade) & 17 cents straight out
of COLA and 2 cents thereafter for every COLA raise (16 COLA raises between spr '05 and spr '09)
Therefore, you are either paying $2.15 (production worker) or $2.27 (skilled) toward your own coverage EVERY HOUR YOU WORK.
Further: Your 3% performance bonus you were due in September this year went to cover heath benefits.
Don't know your figures, but for me, it figures well over $8000 I contributed toward health care costs!!!!!
Where in the HELL is my thanks, FORD????
Where is my thanks, Gettlefinger??? King???
First off I wasn't here for some of those contracts's. But you did make your point regardless. I was thinking that in the contract's that I voted on we gave this up for the retiree's. My bad for getting it wrong if that was the case. My point was as long as our union Brother's and Sister's were still working for Ford, they would have insurance. Soon most will not have any at all.
Capt. is right, the past is behind us now so let's look towards the future. There is no sense in anyone getting mad at some who voted for this last round of Mods, I am sure they voted that way because they felt it was the right thing to do. Myself I voted against it for I thought it was the best thing to do.
I really believe we sent a message not only to our elected leader's up north but to Ford top exec's as well. Bill Ford and Mark Fields let Allan Mulally talk the talk back in February or March about they are at where they need to be UNTILL 2011. We sent the message to them now is the time to walk the walk.
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This sums up the misconception of the American autoworker. Undereducated, overpaid, and too god damn stupid to realize that those nice big checks you get every week say FORD on them. Indy voted down the agreement in May. Remember that one? The one that fucked everyone's brains out. You probably voted that one in though cause you're such a stand up Union brother, right? You assholes forget that you laid down on the shittiest proposal I've seen in my lifetime and voted yes but you decide to pick a fight on a harmless one. Custer did the same fucking thing. I won't die like an auto worker, I'll fight like a husband and father of two who wants a good life for his family. Last time I checked Ford paid my fucking mortgage, what about you? Wake up and realize that in two days time we will be THE most hated group of Union workers this country has ever seen. Our one shot at saving some face to the car buying public and we throw it in their faces. Does being a Union member mean closing your eyes and forgetting about reality? Honda, Toyota, and the rest of the transplants will use this against us and destroy our momentum. We know this deal didn't save Ford any money, but the average car buyer doesn't. That's okay though. You're pockets will be overflowing with "take thats" and "we showed yous." Why do you think they brought Mullally in you jackass? You all say he's an idiot and you call him names. OOOOOOOOOohhhhhh. Open a fucking book and read about him. He turns companies around resistance or not. I love being a Union worker, but if living to fight another day is my ONLY option, then I can live with that. Go back to your fucking hole and try your "pro-company fuck" bullshit on somebody who is dumb enough to fall for it. In solidar.......oh who am I kidding.
You made your case, I think you understand the the position we are all(both Ford and the UAW.) I will now speak my piece.
The last time we voted on this contract was late February or early March not in May. If you remember we lost the Monday after Easter this year, still have trouble understanding this? Go back and look at your Ford pay stub's, you will see you didn't get paid for that Monday this year. Double check all of your stub's to see how long you have not been getting COLA.
By putting this last modification in, you would have had the chance to come to KTP/LAP. Guess what? You would still have that same chance even though the vote failed. In either case you still wouldn't have come down here unless one of the two plants was in a hiring mode. Now as for you bumping us out of work, good luck there. We still have over 200 of our local Brother's and Sister's on ILO. While other plant's (keep this mind because it could pertain to you one day.) Other plant's have TPT working. My quetion to you is this, why can't all of the Ford employee's on ILO have not been asked to go to these plant's? My answer is simple, so Ford don't have to pay for their insurance.
Despite what Toyota and Honda along with the other transplants do now, we keep our right to strike on EVERYTHING not just some things. This is also a good thing for our Brother's and Sister's over at GM and Chrysler. Should we strike for wage and benefit imporvements and win, guess what they can get them as well. Maybe not as much as us but that is the only hope they have now since the I-UAw want's to do all this pattern bargaining.
The revisted contract back in February spells out the savings that Ford got. In this lastest one I even heard a couple of news people ask where is the saving's. This one was only done for Ford to screw us over sooner than later. We all knew how Mulally was when he was brought in. Yes, he is a smart man. That is why we have to stick together and be smarter than he is. Beside's, in a couple of years you will be here working at one of our plant's and you will be welcomed here. You are one of us, we are all in this together.
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Has anyone considered why Gettlefinger would allow Ford to continually break the contracts with no argument from the IUAW now of all times? Here is my take on this. Decide for yourself if it makes sense, since I am not a believer in coincidence:
1. The UAW was the first union to support Obama against Clinton during the Democratic Party elections. Gettlefinger gained much favor with the Obama supporters during this time.
2. Gettlefinger is retiring soon and has been setting himself up as a "company man" for years, as is obvious by the latest events leading up to our NO vote. Why retire now? Especially considering all of his recent efforts to set himself up in his current lucrative position?
3. With him playing both sides of the fence and gaining favor with the automanufacturers, the media, and the Obama administration he is in a unique position. What position is that?
4. Obama is looking for a "Car Czar" to head up the oversight of Chrysler/GM since the govt. bailout.
Guess who the leading candidate is for this position? I would gather it is Gettlefinger. You might think everyone would do a double-take; "What? Let a former UAW union leader run Chrysler and GM?" But you have to remember, this is Washington, where everything isn't what it appears. Everyone is on the take or beholden to some corporation or lobby group. Otherwise, one doesn't get to play at the national level politically. Gettlefinger has manuevered everyone into believing he is "understanding" of both sides' issues and is willing to "compromise" (well except for when it comes to him and his IUAW reps' compensation packages). The only compromising done however has been done by the workers (and I also include some well-respected/liked salaried workers in this statement. They were harrassed, fired, forced to retire, and/or had their compensation packages cut . . . though the level 8's and above remaining will more than likely be compensated well after the Nov. 2 Ford financial results are announced.)
I always try to look for the reasons people do what they do . . . I think the above explains why Gettlefinger has so readily betrayed the core values of the UAW and its membership. It has nothing to do with "economics", "the global economy", "efficiency" or any of the other overused and cliched catch-phrases used today, but more to do with Gettlefinger further enriching himself at our expense. I would imagine, he has made promises to create positions for a few of his other "supportive" IUAW reps, if he gets the nomination for the Car Czar job.
Does this sound plausible to you?
I just hope the latest NO vote has put a wrench in his plans.
PS: We blue collar workers do not have any representation in Washington. The Republican and Democratic parties both are beholden to those who would continue to take away our rights, our freedoms and our health and financial well-being.
Good luck to us all and thanks to those who have shown us support and who realize "what happens to us, will soon happen to them". Those critical of our work and compensation, believe they are better educated and thus immune from such things . . . however, tell them to ask any well-educated IT professional, computer programmer, and customer service tech how much of their highly skilled work is being performed overseas by cheaper labor today.
When I voted I was of the opinion I would rather make a stand now, while I am still young enough to find other work if necessary, rather than wait 6 years and have to work 2 jobs to pay for my kids' college educations and to maintain some measure of my family's current life-style.
I can't see this happening however, I never thought our union leaders would ever try to put the big cock up our ass either. As they say on Myth Buster's "this myth is plausible."
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Ron, Bob, Allan Mulally, Mark Fields and Bill Ford can you HEAR US NOW?
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We don't want him back in Louisville. Send him to Iraq, he might be able to negotiate a good contract for Al-Qudea.
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I am glad to see that we all have finally come together on this. For the last few years we gave up so much and not once did the big dogs give up anything. I am not only talking about Ford's big wigs but our International Leaders as well. When they sold us the line about Ford's problem about 6 years ago we agreed to give up our pay raise to help both Ford and the retiree's out. It didn't stop there they kept coming back for more.
I keep reading and hearing how this latest round of concession's/modification's is helping Ford with their labor cost, yet I just do not see anything in there about where it saves them money. No wage or benefit improvements? so if they are not going to try to lower our wages or decrease what we get in benefits, how will that save them labor cost? Putting a wage freeze on new hires, OK makes a liitle sense but they are not hiring. How is that saving them labor cost?
The way I see it, the only way they are going to save on labor cost is to continuely get rid of the older work force through buy-outs and fireing's. That way the new kids can come in at half the wages for the next six years. That is another reason why they wanted no cap on new hires.
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Yeah let me assist the UAW in trying to sell this bullshit to our membership, F'CK U. just keep spreading your ass cheeks for everybody. What kind of track record do you have? Oh yeah you post a bunch of worthless and useless bullshit on here and everybody on here knows your a fucking idiot!
Ditto. to the last post I put in.
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First off im not here to make any friends. Now with that said u are a whining ungrateful prick like I said. I am pretty sure that there are many who take your place and come to work. LIke i said before if we get rid of the no coming to work lazy bums like yourself then the UAW would be a much stronger union. How many times have you went crying to the union to get your job back? Enough said go have a DIRTY SANCHEZ AND A SMILE!
I believe everyone on here has the right to post any comments they feel they need to get out. I also know that not everyone will agree to what is being said, quite a few people do not like what I say but that is life.
You two need to take this anger off the website and hash this out behind closed doors. Both of you obvisiouly do not care for each other, so why do the rest of us have to put up with this constant bickering. Just agree to disagree and let it go. No sense in any name calling it takes away from what we are trying to get out to the membership.
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Now we are really getting somwhere. I have a better understanding. Your not concerned over the right to strike over wages and benifits. Yoru more concerned over the right to strike over jobs we are promised.
Your concerned that arbitration will effect our retirees pensions because toyota don't have pensions and you feel we would take a pay cut as a result of an arbitrator ruling we would be out of line?
What stops this in Gm and Chrysler?
Aren't we in line with them already? That is what we have been told at Sterling.
First off, we do not have a NO STRIKE CLAUSE. We are not currently in line with either GM or Chyrsler. Due to that pattern bargaining we have had in the past, I can see where you would get that idea though. If you are being told that at the plant where you are working , then I would be asking a few more questions.
Jobs being promised is only that a promise. Unelss you haven't heard, promises are made to be broken. There is more to the story than what they are saying and by putting in that NO STRIKE CLAUSE they are setting us up for a screwing in 2011. Damn, a blind person could see this, why can't you? To be fair and honest with you, I could care less what is happening at GM and Chrysler but only to a point. All three are in this together and if Ford wants to be just like the other two then let Mulally go, have the Ford family give up control and set Mark Feilds to walking. Like I have said in the past, what they are trying to offer is not that good and we need to vote this down. Yes, I could use that $1000.00 in March but it is tied to quality and who is to say that Ford won't come back and say that our quality sucked so there will be no bonus. I believe I have tried to cover all aspects here but I am sure you will try to come back with something else. VOTE NO!!!!!!!
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I can not tell you who is the Building Chair of any plant other than my own. Hell I can not even tell you if this will be the last concession or not. I can tell you what I think a NO STRIKE CLAUSE is and what it means to me.
A NO STRIKE CLAUSE is just that, a no strike. Now what it means to me is this, we will have no right to strike if the next contract in 2011 is not what we like. I am not just talking about our wages and bennies but I am refering to products we are or are not promised. On 01/01/2010 we get the VEBA transfered to the UAW. This is about what again, the insurance of the retiree's, correct. Ford still has to pay these same retiree's a paycheck each month.
Ford, in 2011 can go into this arbitration deal and say they are not competitive enough with the transplants. Our wages could get cut, what about the retiree's? The transplants has no legacy cost like the big three. Who do you think they really hit and hit hard then? Most people on here have stated that they have a family member or two that has retired from one of the big three. This is why I will vote no on this modification, I can not take the chance of having someone in my family losing everything they have worked for so long to get. So to every suckass on here that continues to fall for the same propaganda bullshit, whether it be from the company or the I-UAW then go ahead and screw yourself. I might be overreacting here, but it is a risk I can't take, can you?
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In the modification that was "passed" this year, let us see what they took away from us.
1. The hoilday after easter.
2. They took away our COLA.
3. They took away the Christmas bonus until 2001 contract.
4. They took away our performance bonus that we would have gotten this month.
5. They took away our choice to take pay in leiu of Vaction/Personal time.
6. In our Sister plant across town they used a loophole to layoff several people even after they agreed to keep them there until this November.
7. They cut our sub-pay from contract until contract to 26-52 weeks based on how long you are employeed.
Now, they want to come back here and ask for more? More what? Blood? I voted no the last time I will vote no this time. It might be a done now but that still doesn't stop me from voting NO.
By putting skilled trades on the line with production workers how is that going to help Ford gain a competitaive edge when they are letting them keep their same wages? Now they want to give us the membership a $1000.00 bonus. How is that going to give them an edge? By hiring new hires in at a lower wages for five years, how is that going to help them out when they are not hiring?
There is only way that Ford can compete with GM and Chrysler and that is to get the NO STRIKE CLAUSE. Ford is makeing profits now, they have for the last two quarters. They will this quarter as well. Their stock is up, they have gained market shares. All of this can help bring their debt down if they stay on top of what they are doing. Do not go back and start doing the stupid shit they have done in the past.
Now they are promising plants more work in the form of products and or changes. I say this is just another lie to us the workers to try to get this to pass. They may as well be planning new products, yet they do not want to tell us nothing until it is over. Our Sister plant has been promised a new product for over two years now and they still have no clue as to what they are getting. When they ask all they get is, we can't tell you but you are getting a new product.
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Domkey,
If I pull my johnson out of my pants will you kiss it? Thats sound really fair to me.
You can put all the fancy articles up you want...you have proved nothing but that your an ass.
I am not sure I even understand your point. I read the contract, but if your telling me you have inside knowledge hen enlighten us!!
You have done nothing to help on this site...All you do is say vote NO and fuck the UAW...well buddy fuck you.
In Solidarity,
Blow me
Wow finally some emotion. Look Ford has made more promises to us in the last few years only to find out later that these were no more than false hopes. I shall vote NO in this next contract sandbag prick up our ass nutsack in the mouth bullshit crap that is being said now. HOW CAN REALLY THINK BY GIVING UP YOUR RIGHT TO STRIKE IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO. All these concession they want will in no way help Ford come out of debt any faster. If we give up the right to strike we will get screwed in 2011 and if you think any different then I just can't help you. By the way, how much of a bonus does it say the big dogs will get this time if it passes.
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Eagle, This is the third and last time I will ask this question> What are they going to give back to us?
You brought this up early on, now your the one who claims to have a friend who is a negotiater (however you spell it ). You are the one that said to keep an open mind. You are the one that even brought the thought of Ford giving us something back. Now is the the time to come clean and tell us what it is they are going to give us back. Hell we are going to find out next week anyways, unless we hear it from the media first. For once give us the information before the media has a field day with it.
When you are asked a question you try hard to aviod giving an answer. This leads me to believe that you are full of sh*&. Prove me wrong that is all I ask. Since you can't answer a simple question don't tell me to keep my mind open to the new contract, don't tell me not to vote no. I believe you can't answer that question because if you say something that doesn't happen you will look like an ass*&^e.
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A quarter past six in the evening and still no real answer from my question at five this morning. What are we getting in leiu of giving up?
The fact is you like to blow smoke just like all the rest of those I-UAW people in Michigan. Do not come on here and make comments you have no answer for. I myself will vote no, not because most on here want me too but because I do not want that no strike clause in this contract. I realize that it will more than likely pass but my vote is no. As far as I am concerned, if it passes then we might aswell and go ahead and vote the UAW out. What good is paying them two hours a month and not getting the representation that we pay for?
I have seen a lot of Bullsh(* go on in my plant and it is appalling. I have come to the conclusion this union isn't worth saving because they could care less about us. No strike clause could mean a pay cut in 2011, Then what? the Union raising our dues to keep their standard of living up? So then what would happen to us, more money out of our pocket and less represetation? No thanks, I can't afford it.
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I have read a lot of BS on here and seen some pretty fair answers. With that said, I have one question and it is to EAGLE.
What are we getting in leiu of giving up? You have said we are getting more than we are losing yet you failed to even give us a hint at what this is supposed to be.
More BS, I am good where I am at. This is a direct quote from A. Mulally.
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People, just get your contract books out and read them. Liquidspine has even been so gracious to put the page number's, Article number's and the section number's down for you. Now do yourself a favor and read this information you might actually learn something.
I said it yesterday, we can strike but it has to be a legal strike when we do. Going on strike because your favorite Chairpman got into trouble for example, is not a legal strike. IF BUSH DID ADD A NO STRIKE CLAUSE IN THIS BRIDGE LOAN DEAL THAT IS HIS AND HIS PARTIES WAY OF TRYING TO BUST THIS UNION. A strike is our best weapon. You wouldn't want the USA to give up all of our nuclear weapon's do you. Then don't be so fast to give away the strike issue. We need to keep our ability to strike during negotiation's.
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In case you all didn't know it, there is a no strike clause in the current contract.
Yes I do realize there is a clause already and I do not know if there are any stipulations to that or if it is no strike period. But now the "no strike" ball could be in Chrysler's court. Then Ford will be looking for similar concessions. If all of the Big 3 have no strike clauses then thats the end.
Really I want to say it will never happen but I don't wan't to jinx us lol
Correct me if I am wrong but I think the no strike clause is when the threat of a wildcat strike is close to hand. During legal negotiations, we can strike and we have struck before. Opening the contracts after they are ratified by the membership can bring a strike issue back on the table.
The reason it can is because we will then be back in a legal negotiation. The no strike clause IF TRUE was put in by President Bush as a way to bust the UAW. Be it a rather small way that would be the only reason that he would put it there. In 2011, should we get that far. We will go into our next four year round of talks. Should that stipulation IF TRUE be in effect that would give the company the right to screw us even harder. They know this is our biggest tool in the arsenal that we have. Take that away from us and they could stall talks for a long time.
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QUOTE (jerzey @ Jan 15 2009, 05:55 PM)
Don't you know this isn't the place to voice your opinion ? Look at who your arguing with! A fucking rep that tells membership bro's & sis' to quit everytime they say whats on their minds and he doesn't agree. I read your post and it did say "IF".
Jerzey, you and every other person has the right to say what ever they want, but if you are going to accuse me of something, why don't you get your facts straight. I don't tell people to quit because i disagree with what they are saying. What i have said a few times is that i find people hypocritical to come on here and MF the Union and say it is a useless organization while gladly accepting the benefits that comes with being a union member. I have asked people who feel that why they don't stand up for what they believe in and go work at a non-union facility. I have also told people who said the union is useless to feel free to check the box that waives their rights to union representation when they do something that they get disciplined for if they truly feel that way.
Now if that causes me to lose some votes if i run again, so be it. I won't change the way i feel for votes.
Mr. Morris both you and Jerzey make valid claims and statement today. It is not that profanity bother's me, it is I feel sometime's the Sailor talk needs to be left on the ship, if you understand what I mean.
Like I said we will have to agree to disagree, I have no problems with that. I am sure you know things that I do not. Henceforth there is things I know that maybe you do not. It is called life's learning's, we both learn them as we go. Right now all of us are in the same ship. I hope the ship isn't sinking, so I am staying on for as long as I can without having to worry about drowning.
I agree with you about people who do nothing but complain about this union. I myself have complaind in the past. To be honest I see myself complaining in the future as well. If we don't complain, then how else will the leadership know that they are doing the wrong thing. I guess we can vote them out but what if they do a lot of good as well. They need the membership to set them in the right direction.
I believe you said before on another post that we are the union, therefore we need to stand together for the betterment of our families.
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What in the hell would make you or anyone else think that Gettlefinger would be willing to do this without a fight? That makes no sense at all!
Comparing this to slavery is a huge exaggeration don't you think?
Here's an idea, instead of GUESSING what is going to happen, why not wait to see what is proposed. The last thing we need to be doing is fear mongering.
As far as "making the average worker that much more determined to vote the U.A.W. out", why go through that? if you feel the U.A.W. is not worth the dues you pay, leave. I could respect that. What I can't respect is someone reaping the benefits that the U.A.W. has given them (even if we have to concede some things) while mother fucking the institution that got them for you.. None of us are involved in the discussions. How in the hell can any of us say what Ron should have done if we weren't there. Talk about your Monday morning quaterbacks. Wait to see what is asked of us before you start the mother fucking and fear mongering.
Ok let me see if I can piss you off a little more here. Since you got so anal about my post I feel I can return the favor.
1. I said "if" and my friend that is a very big IF. If for some reason or another Mr. Gettlefinger agrees to to the no strike rule, which I might add was not there to begin with. If he agree's to that then why do we need to be very upbeat about any and all future contracts, when that time comes? Now I do believe Mr. Gettlefinger will do his best for the membership at large, this does not in anyway effect my loyality to the United Auto Worker's.
2. Had you sir, read that link, you would seen in there that prior to the 20th century, working at places such as Ford, GM and Chrysler was no more than forced slavery. Which I might add, that if it wasn't for union's ability to strike we would be no where near to the middle class lifestyle that we so enjoy living. I believe it was President Roosevelt that acknowledged the union's right to strike. This was one of the reason's why we are not in a forced slavery type of employeement today.
3. This is something I hear almost everyday in the plant. I am guessing you have heard it as well. Who is to say you haven't said at least once after you got upset with your local. I am going to take a wild guess and say you will tell us you haven't said it. With that said, that is the reason I said the average worker would be that much more determined to vote the UAW out. I am sorry but I left out the key word "auto" when I talked about the average worker. I persoanelly will continue to support the UAW even if they are for reason the state in which they are located go into a right to work state. i much rather have the union than not have one.
4. You sir are right. I am not there in discussion's with the big 3 or the people in DC. Yes, I guess I can be a Monday morning Quarteback/ armchair Quarterback what ever you want to call them. Yes, it is easier to sitback and second guess what is done up north, tell us you have not that as well. I honestly believe we all have done/will do that at least once before we retire.
5. I have no intention of ever trying to use fear mongering on this website. I agree that there is individuals on here that love to do that, I for one feel that is wrong. As a matter of fact I have never been one to even be a whore monger. Which we both know that there is people in this world that do.
6. Finally, I would appriciate the fact that you would not use those long profanity words. I could belittle myself to make snide comments about those word's but I feel that would only make me look worse than you.
In the end Sir, I guess we will have to agree to disagree on these post's. I unlike you, am going to wait until I see everything in paper before I go off the deep end. I just responded to what I read on that lnk. I guess I should have realized that those people had no idea what they were talking about when they wrote that article. People just want stories these days and they go as far to make stuff up, or print things on here say without finding out the facts. Kinda ironic isn't it, we do the samething on here.
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Hell i have been divorced, fired, broke and out of job all at the same time. I started over with nothing and survived I can do it again. What about the rest of you, are you willing to take that chance?
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If Gettfinger accept's this with out a fight, I regret to say that our way of life is going to be gone soon. This just make's the average worker that much more determine to vote the UAW out. If we have to live in post 20th century slavery then we do not need to pay the union any money for they are not protecting us anymore.
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I no we are adding a new trim shop that will add a lot of people but does anybody no why the number went from 500 from lap and now they are adding 700
My guess is they do not know the true number yet.
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Has anyone heard the details of the suicide at the Twin Cities Assembly Plant. I heard it involved a gun, and was in the Union Presidents office. I can not verify this, however the plant population has been very upset with Union lies and we feel betrayed. Not all information was given to us.
This is a mtter that needs to be addressed in the plant. Although I think a lot of people on here would like to know more about this incident I think the Union and Labor Relations people in that plant need to adress this with those current employee's. It is a stressfull thing and this could bring on alot of emotion for all the people involved. This website is not the place to start dredgeing someone.
Give some respect to all parties involved. No one on here want's to hear about a Ford employee passing this way, although it does happen. May everyone on here send your sympathy to the employee's family.
Tracking my 2011 Taurus
in Vehicle Locator By Ford Employees
Posted · Edited by SOULJABOY
How do we get a build sheet.