Green Lantern
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Posts posted by Green Lantern
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GET THE WARRANTY. If Ford offers one, get a 7 year / 100,000 mile warranty.
I had a 60,000 mile, 60 month extended warranty. I experienced a 'Catastrophic engine failure' on my 2006 FEH at 65,000 miles / month 37. Ford was not interested in any type of assistance whatsoever. They were not interested in talking with me. They were not interested in learning why a connecting rod bearing failed and ruined the engine. The repair bill to install a remanufactured engine was $6500.
The irony in my nightmare experience with Ford and Ford products:
1. The remanufactured engine has a better warranty than the original. Go figure.
2. The hybrid components (battery, electric motor, etc.) have a 8 year, 100,000 mile warranty. So... although the new technology has a reasonable warranty, the "rock solid" "proven technology" Duratec block engine does not.
(Yes, I took care of the vehicle. Better than almost all. If you want details, go to the GreenHybrid forum and search for "Catastrophic engine failure")
You are a complete tool. You have yet to drum up the sympathy that you feel you deserve, have stated that you loved your Ford until this happened and that you will never buy Ford again. Now all you appear to do is sit around on Ford forums and cry over your spilled milk. You were beyond your warranty period. As I have said before, that is bad luck and I feel sorry for you having to go through it but what is the point of a warranty period if a company is expected to cover problems outside of that period? They might as well just sell it (and price it) as warranty for life. If you really think you have a legitimate claim then go to a consumer advocacy group, hire a lawyer, do something other than sit around and act like a little kid over this. If you have a legitimate claim you will win, plain and simple. Then you can proudly thump your chest and tell all of us that don't agree with you that you were right and we were wrong.
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Thanks for the information. So if I do decide to do this I'll go with the Mercury ESP, and not some third party. I checked the prices:
1. PremiumCare Extended Warranty for 7 years/100k miles, $200 deductible: $2145 (ouch)
2. BaseCare Extended Warranty for 7 years/100k miles, $200 deductible: $1350
I'd have to say that, once again, I'm going to take my chances...but I really am more uncertain about the wisdom of this choice than I've ever been before...
Definitely shop online for ESP pricing and you will find better deals.
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You might be forgetting a few people? The ones that built it! You and others have blamed the owner from the get go. Neutral, you aren't!
You say why only one person, I say why only one bearing?
That is a perfectly fair question to ask. And I would say that if that was my vehicle I would be asking some mechanics to document and help me prove my case to FORD that this might be an issue they need to address. In reading all the posts I do not recall seeing any such work being done to help document and prove that case. Sorry I don't look at it the same way you do but c'est la vie. Even then, it still does not necessarily make it Ford's problem to have to resolve. Do I wish they would step up in cases such as this? Absolutely! But I also know that economically they cannot do this each time something bad happens out of warranty without the consumer paying for this in increased product costs and increased service costs. Where does a business draw the line? Typically they draw the line at a warranty timeline/guideline. I deal with it in the airline industry on a daily basis with engines which are dramatically more complex than automotive engines.
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Hello: I keep debating getting a Limited I4 w/ FWD v. 4WD v. Hybrid FWD v. 4WD. From what I have read the gas I4 has plenty of power as does the FEH.
I don't know if the cost differential is worth it for the FEH due to the breakeven point being at least 5-6 years. Cost is not so much an issue but why spend the extra $ if it's not worth it. Also debating FWD w/ a good set of snows v. 4WD.
Also on the FEH you get very little optional equipment offered on the base model. i like the navi. screen but I already have a Garmin and for the extra money it would not have real time traffic in Cleveland
Any comments with real world driving and handling, mpg's etc would be appreciated on any one who has any of the above combinations. The easy part was deciding to get the limited. I do about 75% highway and live in Northeast Ohio. The weather sucks here about 5 months out of the year and my profession dictates that I must get to work. Right now I am leasing an 07'
Edge and want something a little smaller with tighter handling. Love the Fusion but I like being up off of the pavement a little.
Thanks in advance for everyone's input.
I own a 2009 FEH Limited with Nav that has a little over 15,000 miles on it. I have the 2wd (FWD) model that has operated great in rain, snow and a big ice storm last year. It had zero issues navigating through our surroundings when the city was shut down during the ice storm and we all basically lost power and trees for a week or more. I average between 35 and 37 mpg around town and around 32 on the highway for extended trips. The only option I did not get is the running boards and that is because at 6'3", I had zero need for those and had heard horror stories of those really just causing more problems with getting your pants legs dirty if you were not careful. My personal opinion is that you cannot go wrong with this vehicle but like I said, that is just MY opinion. There are others obviously that will tell you this is not a good vehicle. Ultimately, it will be your decision and you have to make that one for yourself. The payback based on mileage alone to cover the hybrid cost is a long one compared to a gas powered escape. I knew this going in and bought it for my peace of mind. In addition, I felt that until more Americans started buying more hybrid vehicles (and paying more for that technology in the short term) that this technology would not become more economical and readily available. Good luck whichever way you choose!
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REALLY and REALLY shows where you think the fault lies.
YOU are absolutely correct. Until I see evidence that this is something others are experiencing I will assume this issue was ultimately caused by something the owner of that vehicle caused, either by his own doing or by those he had do things to the vehicle. Since I have yet to see any other evidence that this is something happening to other Escapes I refuse to blindly place blame on the manufacturer.
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Ah! The Jiffy Lube Theory again! You must be from GH?
For the record, I am not the one that has claimed Jiffy was at fault but NONE of us REALLY know what the poster REALLY did in maintaining his vehicle. I just don't subscribe to this is FORD's problem and they should bail him out. If you want to be overly sympathetic and assume he is right then go right ahead. I just don't think either party was nefarious in their actions. Stuff happens and sometimes it adversely affects us. I have had vehicles have significant problems outside of warranty and, while I did not like it, I had to belly up to the bar and pay the piper.
He had similar threads here discussing his issues on this 2006 vehicle but I could not find them so I referenced the GH thread. And I don't expect you and I to be on the same side of this discussion wptski. Previous conversations have shown us to have conflicting views. Have a good day.
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Personally, I would avoid the FEH at all costs. My next vehicle will not be a Ford product.
I own a 2006 FEH AWD, and was getting 28-29 MPG highway. 5 year / 60,000 mile extended warranty did NOT help when a connecting rod bearing failed @ 65,000 miles, requiring the replacement of the engine. The $6500 repair cost ate ALL of the vehicle savings since purchase, and the $6500 repair cost put the FEH in the same cost category as the Highlander Hybrid.
Good news? My replacement (remanufactured) engine has a better warranty than the original - 100,000 miles. Bad news? The new engine is noisier and fuel economy has dropped to 26-27 MPG in equivalent driving.
As much as I liked my FEH before the engine failed, Ford has not treated this customer well. They had NO INTEREST in learning why the bearing failed nor in having any conversations with me other than "Warranty expired. Too Bad."
Good grief man, how many times are you going to flame FORD over YOUR bad experience? It was out of warranty. Does it suck? Yes it does but the warranty was set at a certain level and you bought it knowing that. Get over yourself. If you really think you have a legitimate case then take FORD to court. The reality is that you don't have a case and you know it. You don't know what Jiffy Lube did to your vehicle that could have contributed to your problem but you just want to keep blaming FORD for not caring about you. Maybe in the future all car manufacturers will just say a vehicle is warranted for life and everything will be covered. Maybe Obama can back that and make it happen or give every vehicle operator a bailout when their vehicle fails outside of warranty.
But in fairness to your complaint and so the original poster can read all about your trials and tribulations I offer your thread you posted on another website: http://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/f26/200...00-miles-22393/
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My mom owns a 2006 Escape Hybrind Limted 4x4 in red. It is the one with the body colored bumpers and rockers, not the flat black plastic.
Over the last year, the rockers under the rear doors have been turning white. No washing will fix it and we have determined that the white is the primer on the plastic showing though the paint. This blasing is from sand and salt getting kicked up by the front tires and even with the mud flaps that were installed (for $200) its happening more and more. This is due to the shape of the rocker where it bows out in front of the rear wheel and the location of the front wheel on the short wheelbase.
My mom orginally took it to the dealer where she bought the car. My family has purchased almost a dozen cars fron the same location over the last 20 years. They told her they cant cover it becaue is it not a factory defect and infact accident damage. The car has never been in an accident and has barely any scratches on it.
She then called the 1-800 number for Ford and spoke with a rep. The rep told her that they will send an email to the dealership and she has to bring it back it where the service manager will make a determination. The service manager is the same person she was told no by the first time.
Today she got a call from the service manager who said they will not cover it.
We feel this is a serious factory defect and should be covered under the waranty. The sand pitting now is to the point where the area under the door is almost completely white on a red car. The sand pitting is due solely to the design of the car and not any fault of the driver (other than driving a 4x4 SUV in winter weather in CT).
Who do we have to escalate this to get it fixed?
Sorry to hear about your mother's bad luck on the vehicle. I think the first course of action is to determine if this is truly a 'design' issue or an 'isolated' one. That will help your Mom's case to ask Ford for assistance. If it truly is an isolated case there is probably little that Ford will do to help. While this is bad news for the individual consumer it is the way it works unfortunately. I deal with this type of situation quite a bit within the airline industry regarding OEM built engines and their parts and have to make similar type requests over 'warranty' type issues.
If you or you Mom can find evidence that this is happening to other FE or FEH built around the same time then you will have more leverage to demonstrate to Ford that this may be more of a 'design' issue. You still may not get full coverage but you may be able to convince them to kick in some level of support. Keep in mind that regardless of the outcome there will be some level of 'typical' wear and tear that will most likely not be covered and would have to be borne by the consumer.
Good luck!
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I will join in and say that I am sorry you had this problem. But I do not agree with your attitude of 'unless you agree with me you are wrong and I don't care what your opinion is'. That may not be what you intended to put out there but as an innocent bystander/reader I feel that is what you are saying to everyone here.
The simple fact is that you have had a bad problem happen. You have taken the position that because you had a bad problem most other FEH's will have the same issue and drivers should beware and stay away from the vehicle altogether (as you stated on GH, you are 'not a fan' of the FEH anymore...although I dare say you were before this event happened). It is extremely unfortunate that you had this happen outside of the warranty period. Perhaps that is why the warranty level is set where it is. That is one of the inherent risks with an ESP. Sometimes you gamble and win and do not need it and sometimes you gamble and lose.
The reality of this is that unless you can prove this is a systemic problem that other FEH drivers have experienced around the same time frame you probably have little chance to win your case. It does not make the FEH a bad vehicle but it MAY make your FEH a bad vehicle. You state you performed all the service at the Ford recommended levels or better and perhaps you did. Only you really know that. Anyone else is just speculating. You state you do not care about the argument of the oil used at Jiffy Lube versus what Ford recommended. You first said it was per Ford specs but when someone pointed out that those were different specs you seemed open to exploring that. Then when you had somenoe write that this was not an issue you changed your position back to one that Jiffy Lube had used what they were supposed to. I am not a mechanic but I work with a lot of contracts regarding engine servicing in an industry other than automotive and I can easily say that every little nuance regarding maintenance recommendations and how those are followed or deviated from weighs in heavily in how a warranty is reviewed and applied.
Again I state I am sorry for your troubles and I wish you the best. Unfortunately my gut tells me that yours is an isolated case and unless you can find some evidence to prove otherwise you will not be happy with the outcome. That does not mean that Ford should not show you some empathy but their contractual level of ownership and responsibility does not appear to be there.
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The EPA ratings of my 2008 Mercury Mariner AWD Hybrid are 29 city/ 27 highway. I'm now easily beating both. That's NOT the point. The point is: why is there a huge discrepancy between the EPA ratings of the Mercury Milan Hybrid and the Mercury Mariner Hybrid? The difference in shape and slight difference in engines and batteries would account for some, but certainly not all, of the discrepancy. Therefore I think the powertrain controller must be different. If so, is it possible to retrofit this new controller to the 2008 or 2009 Mercury Mariner Hybrids or recalibrate--again--the existing powertrain controller? I think the current system is not completely optimized.
Sorry but I did not read your original post that way. It appeared you were trying to compare your driving of the mariner with the epa rating of the milan.
For the 2010 Mariner Hybrid the 2WD is rated as 34/31 and the AWD is rated as 30/27. Therefore the AWD factor alone on the same vehicle is accounting for 4 less miles per gallon.
The 2010 Milan Hybrid is 2WD and rated as 41/36 so the true difference between the two similar drivetrains would be 7/5 in favor of the Milan. I still contend that the majority of this difference is due to the drag difference between the two structures. I do not know if weight plays as much on this. The Mercury website does not list a weight for the hybrid Milan yet but the 2WD I4 is listed as 3308. On leftlanenews the curb weight for the Mariner 2WD I4 is listed as 3385 so only a difference of 82 pounds. I did not look for hybrid weight since that was not available for the Milan.
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Escape is still the gen I system while Milan gets the gen II. The gen II is more efficient. Software is only part of it. At least that's what I remember.
I would also add that the OP is comparing what he/she is really getting off a Mariner H to what the EPA ratings are on the Milan H. I think he/she should first compare his/her real mileage to the EPA stated mileage on the vehicle sticker of his/her Mariner H. Then compare the EPA sticker mpg for both vehicles. I am betting the discrepancy between the two vehicles EPA rated mileage is not as severe as what was stated in comparing real driving vs EPA mpg on two different vehicles.
For example, in my 2009 FEH the sticker mpg is 34/31 for city/highway driving. I can easily see the body dynamics differences of the two vehicles making up the largest portion of the discrepancy between these values and those of a Milan H if they both had the same engine/powertrain and were operated in a wind tunnel.
I would be more concerned why the OP is not achieving what his/her vehicle was rated at on the vehicle sticker (assuming it is reasonably close to what is on my 2009 model).
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The six disc changer is replaced with a single disc unit that has a 10gig hard drive. You can burn your cd's onto your harddrive and not need to flip between discs. I have it and love it. I should note, however, that I have never been a fan of changers anyway though. Either I can't remember what is in the cartridge or I have had in dash units freeze making the removal of discs unbearably difficult.
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I got my '09FEH not too long after Gary. I will hit my 12 month anniversary at the end of next month. So far, after 11 months of driving in Kentucky I am averaging just under 32mpg. However, over the past three months I have averaged 34mpg and over the last month I have averaged 36mpg. I too, use a SGII and find the same reading discrepancy between the on board nav system (I have the Limited FEH) and the real mileage from fill ups. I have kept a spreadsheet at home tracking my mileage since pickup and every tank.
Admittedly, I am still learing how to properly drive my hybrid but I get better each tank at maximizing my mileage. I am not a hypermiler like Gary nor do I ever think I will be but I still learn from his tips and use them, as appropriate, to help me maximize my mileage. The real gauge of my learning will be seen next spring when I can compare two winters against one another and see how my driving improved. I did a terrible job this past winter and only averaged between 27 and 29 mpg for a couple of months. Now I find myself getting mad if I drive too hard and let my mileage get below 36 mpg. What a short memory I have of getting 20 mpg on my last vehicle.
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No, I'm suggesting that since fewer are produced, they are harder to find and dealers can get a bit greedy.
I completely agree with wptski. Those of us that ordered last year and dealt with the longer timelines on the FEH are forgetting a few items. First that, as wptski stated, this is a vehicle that has a relatively low production level compared to the gas version that is built on the same line. Second, the 2009 model had some significant upgrades to previous models that drove the demand up. Third, last year the gas prices were higher thus driving the demand for hybrid vehicles even higher. As such, the dealerships were definitely playing cut throat in some areas for the FEH. That does not mean that 09feh does not have some significant gripes on how the dealerships are handled but I am not sure who really is to blame for that process. I ordered mine from a small, country dealer and did not have any real issues with my vehicle. From what I recall, those us that ordered and waited the longest last year actually ordered prior to production ever starting. Thus the wait from order date to the production line actually starting does not count. I ordered mine a few months before production started when the order line was opened up. Once production began I had my vehicle in about 2 months. That was okay in my book.
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Thank you from my family & myself for purchasing & supporting Ford.
You sure don't have to thank me. Thank you Ford and it's employees for building such great vehicles.
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I too love my 2009 FEH. I live in a Ford town and had been driving American made foreign vehicles. I have always talked about helping local companies to your community so decided I needed to put my money where my mouth was. The FEH is not built in my town but we have two Ford Plants here. They build vehicles bigger than what I wanted but I wanted to show my support to the thousands of Ford workers in my community so I shopped around, ordered and then waited for my 2009 FEH. It has been the best vehicle I have ever bought and I have every intention of staying with Ford now. In my opinion, Ford is building the best vehicles of all the domestic automakers and to top it off...they are not asking all the taxpayers to bail them out. Thanks Ford!
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Form 8910 is still not finalized on TaxCut for those using that program. The date keeps moving on when they will have it published. You can always print out the IRS pdf file and file by paper though.
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Hi Green Lantern. :D Just to add to akirby's good advice and try to answer your legal standpoint question (as you requested), and not getting into the "should it or shouldn't it be this way" questions: If you mount an aftermarket NAV unit in your car, Ford (or any Automaker) is in no way legally liable for what may happen if you have an accident while you are driving due to your inattention while reprogramming it. They did not provide the equipment. You purchased it, you installed it (whether stuck to the windshield with suction cups, held in your hand, etc) and you used it in a "dangerous" or "negligent" manner.
However, due to the litigious nature in the US nowadays, if Ford was to enable the Factory NAV system to be reprogrammed while driving, some idiot (or idiots lawyer) would eventually sue Ford (or any Automaker) after a crash. And some idiotic jury would eventually find Ford liable, ruling that the automaker should not have allowed the Factory NAV system to be reprogrammed while driving, since it created an "Attractive Nuisance". Since the Automaker provided the equipment (a factory NAV system) and allowed it to be operated in a "negligent manner" (programmed while driving), they can be held liable.
Please keep in mind I do not agree with this state of affairs, I am simply providing the explanation.
I will give this quick analogy. If I was to have an accident while driving because I dropped a hot cup of coffee in my lap that I brought from home or anywhere else (think McDonalds lawsuit), Ford (or another automaker) would not be liable. Ford did not provide the cup of coffee. I bought the coffee and carried it into the car myself (like an aftermarket NAV system). But if Ford was to install a coffee maker in my car (i.e. a Factory NAV system) and I brew a cup, drop the hot cup of coffee in my lap while driving and have an accident, Ford has opened themselves up to liability. They provided/installed the equipment and allowed it to be used while driving, thus creating an "attractive nuisance" (in the eyes of greedy lawyers).
Hope this makes it a bit clearer.
Good luck. :beerchug:
PS - The following statement is not directed at you Green Lantern. I repeat, I do not agree with the way the law works, so I do not want to get into a debate over whether it makes sense. I already agree that it does not make sense. I believe in personal responsibility. But it is what it is and debating with me will not change the facts or the law.
Great points and for the record...I did not take one thing you said or akirby said personally. It is all good. I totally get the liability issue. Maybe someday people will truly be held responsible for THEIR OWN actions and companies will not be subjected to wasted lawsuits that ultimately just cost all us consumers more money.
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But that doesn't tell you whether it's the driver or the passenger using the system - it just means that it's possible that the passenger is using it. Definitely would not hold up in a lawsuit.
Oh I totally agree with you on that. I was not stating that as a way to make it 'safe'. I was instead, simply stating that there was some logic that could be used if someone truly wanted to engineer it that way.
I am actually not in favor of the dvd working at all when in motion but I do think the nav should be functional. How is it allowable for the handheld/windshield mounted units to do this while in motion but a dash installed unit cannot? Would not the same legal standpoint apply? And this is not meant as simply a Ford question but rather a automotive one in general.
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I called Ford about it and they hooked me up with a mfg that they use. It's in the car. I'll bring it in later and post it up.
Expensive as hell but seems to work.
I hate it that we couldn't get a black or charcoal interior. I have the fancy black (metallic) paint, whatever it was called. My interior looks like crap most of the time because of snow and salt. I teach scuba and I can't wait to see what the rear of this thing looks like after stacking a ton of gear in it (damp, sandy, dirty, ugh)
bj
Did you get a cargo liner for the back? If not, I highly recommend it. I purchased the Husky liner. They make it in black and tan (and there maybe a gray too but I cannot recall). I put the black in mine. I also use the Ford all weather, black mats inside as well. Tan would probably work good but I always like black mats. Good luck!
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Color me in agreement. I think I can yell louder with all windows up and the stereo blasting and still be heard more than the wittle bitty 'vaarroooga' that my FEH makes. Heck, a bicycle 'ching ching' may be louder.
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Seems like there should be a way to make this sensor work in the same manner that the passenger air bag does. If the sensors pick up enough weight to activate the airbag then the nav unit motion detection could be disabled. I am not an engineer and I don't play one on TV but it seems as if this should be in the realm of possibility.
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i want to install a westin bull bar on my new 2009 limited .i can't find
a photo on line with one on a new escape . so i'm talking a poll .wich one you
think will look better on,the black with a chrome insert or the all chrome
or Stainless Steel.
My vote would be the black. The chrome/stainless steel will not match exactly and may detract from an already great looking front end. The black will help pull in the black from the vehicle...if that is the color you have. If you have any other color then I would go with the chrome/stainless steel....but that is just my two cents.
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Just picked up my 09 FEH Tuesday (after a 5 month wait) and so far this is my only complaint! If I have any media on (nav, cd, mp3 player, usb, etc) the clock on the center console disappears. As long as it's powered off the clock displays the time and date. There's no clock to be found anywhere on the displays with the radio on. Gotta flip the radio off see what time it is then turn the radio back on....could be a problem driving to work in the mornings :boring: How will I know if I need to speed to work or if I can scoot down the road in electric mode?! Has anyone had any luck figuring this out?
That is odd...my clock stays on constantly but the date does go away if I have the radio on. If I leave it off or play a CD then the date displays. But again, my clock is there always.
Mariner Hybrid Long Term Mileage
in Escape & Kuga Forum
Posted
Maybe because he cannot find the answer and thought he might find someone here that could help him understand.