danehilby
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Posts posted by danehilby
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$31.68 according to CPI Inflation Calculator.
And its more like 6 percent or a little less. 2009 was close to 0 from out our first concession vote.
$35.98 from $30. So, I stand corrected and according to MY source, SO DO YOU.
http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/
Plug in the last year a UAW worker got a raise, 2004, through to todays date, in 2011. Tells me clearly that inflation has risen 19%. Can't get any clearer than that.
Heck, just the inflatin rate for 2006 & 2007 was over 6%. Might you need some reading glasses???
http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/current-inflation-rates/
But, then, I highly doubt you will look up this information. Also, using a different set of rates, from a different internet site, the same rate of inflation is calculated within 1%.
http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/Inflation_Rate/HistoricalInflation.aspx
So, I do not accept your 6% crap. Sounds like another set of misleading information from another person sent from either IUAW or Ford to confuse the masses.
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IUAW STRONGMEN are still getting their 3% raises every year. As an autoworker, are you getting yours?????????
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Please calm down.Its gonna be alright.You are gonna get $10,000 and have a secure job with great benefits.Think about what you are gonna do with all that $$$$$$$$$$$$.
OMG. FATSO, FATSO, FATSO, now YOU are sounding like one of those blathering idiot WHITE COLLAR THUGS planted on here to spread the manure deeper than any of those farmers I knew up north. You and Len_A seem to have a lot of that "'nure" coming out your eyes, mouth and ears.
Here is what I will do with all that money: I will try to cover the bills and buy a cheap foreign car 'cause I sure in hell am NOT going to be able to afford an overpriced Ford vehicle. Last time I got a raise was the 2% raise in 2004. Yet, since then, inflation has driven down my BUYING POWER 24%. That means what I could afford on a $28 an hour wage in 2004, now takes a wage of $35.50 an hour. Yet, you WHITE COLLAR THUGS and the IUAW STRONGMEN keep getting your 3% raises every year.
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What?You cant understand that its not income to you?10 % is not 'taken away' after it is paid to you.Granted you helped earn the pool of money that the 10% is removed from but this transaction is done before you`re share of the pool is allocated.The remaining 90%,,,,your share of that ,which ends up in your paycheck is whats taxed.Otherwise I guess we would be taxed on Fords total profits.
FATSO, FATSO, FATSO. Thank you for showing me your intelligence. I never once mentioned the 10% crap. So where do you get off using my post as your stepping stone to blab your blathering crap???? Either you are highly UNintelligent, or you are just an individual that picks on someone to bedraggle on.
PLEASE, next time do it on a different poster's post. You may sound like you have an ounce of education if you prepare your next post properly.
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To those who are paying attention: Len_A admits to be WHITE COLLAR. He also seems to know a lot about the contract and how it reads. He repeats a lot of threats that we are hearing, which supposedly come from the GLASS HOUSE. Therefore, it can be well concluded that HE is a HIGH RANKING WHITE COLLAR CHUMP. Whether you decide to vote "yes" or "no", DO NOT LISTEN TO THIS WHITE COLLAR THUG WHO IS PLANTED ON HERE TO SCARE YOU!!!!!!!!!
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No, it wouldn't be deductible be cause it would be taken out pretax anyway. It's money that you wouldn't be taxed on in the first place.
WOW. Len_A, your answers are making it sound more and more that you know the contract pretty darn good. You admit you are WHITE COLLAR. Therefore, I come to the conclusion that you are WAY UP THE TOTEM POLE.
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We used to get raises every year, 4% as I recall. That on top of COLA. The basic premise was that as you became more profiecient at your job, you could do five percent more work every year. Ford won again. They expect 5% more work for 4% pay. Then to help the struggling auto industry out, we agreed to lump sum bonuses in the 2nd and 3rd year of the three year deal. One raise and two bonuses. Well the raises and bonuses then turned into 3% and the contract turned into four years. Now they only had to pay the raise every four years instead every year. They then cried poor again and strong-armed and whip-sawed us into freezing out cost of living raises and taking our last two lump sum raises all the while handing each other bonuses and restoring merit raises to the salary ranks. They will still time study you and expect 5% more work yet your buying power will be reduced on average 3-4% per year due to inflation. They will then brag after ratification how their labor costs only went up 1% and how they have stricter work rules and hand themselves even bigger bonuses. Thank God in four years, after 12 years of NO raises, when things are better we can get it all back. Live to fight another day you geniuses, as Mullally, Fields, Mulloy and Henrichs laugh all the way to the bank.
Isn't funny how the IAUW reps still get their raises EACH year?????
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I am both saddened and sickened as I watch our IUAW circle the line like Henry Ford's Pinkerton Guards. They are using typical bullying tactics such as Strike, Lockout, Replacement workers like wine through a wino. I am a yes vote for the contract because I believe it is a fair agreement, not good, but fair what I am a no vote for is our UAW.
Those IUAW Thugs are in our plant trying to explain how good of a deal this is. When one employee showed them a chart that inflation has risen 24% since 2004, the last time we got a raise (2%), a few of them almost crapped their pants. They HAD NO CLUE!!!!!!!
They had NO CLUE that the life style you could live with a $28 an hour wage now takes a $35.50 an hour wage. In other words the life style a tech could live back in 2004, a skilled tradesman can't live in 2011. Can anyone say, "Cram it, Bozo!!"?
Why should they?? The IUAW Thugs are still getting their 3% raises each year.
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veba covers retiree health care, not your pension! Good lord!
We were told that "legacy" costs WERE VEBA. The pension is another fund. It should not be included in your "legacy" costs. And that is exactly what we were told back in 2007. "Legacy" costs were the "retirees health care". Good Lord.
NOW you are saying that the "legacy" costs are the pension funds??? Then explain how the $70 an hour went down to the current $58 an hour when it was VEBA, or the "retirees health care" that was transferred to IUAW to take care of, not the pension fund.
More rhetoric from another probable White Collar Chump. So, el norte, please don't even take the time to respond. You either don't know what you are talking about, or you are spreading misleading information. We do not need either of these probabilities here.
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So, FoMoCo is telling the world that their labor costs for us is $58 an hour. Mmmmmm.
Four short years ago, we were told that those labor costs were $70 an hour, which included $27 an hour "legacy" costs. In other words, $43 an hour without the so called "legacy" costs.
Supposedly, those "legacy" costs were covered by VEBA.
O.K. So now we are being told labor costs are $58 an hour, up from $43 an hour. In other words, in 4 short years, Fords costs for our labor has risen 35%. Yet, we haven't had a raise since 2004, seven years ago. And our inflation costs have risen 24% since the start of 2004. Seems to me someone is getting shafted here. And there are a lot of fairy tales being told.
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UAW Ford Workers at $58 Per Hour
Highest Compensated Autoworker In America
The IUAW has ensured a good contract for us. They gained product commitments at many locations as well as bonuses, lower benefits and job security for all.
At $58 per hour there is no room for further increases in wages. To raise our $58 per hour higher will result in losing future work to lower waged countries like Canada and Mexico. May take some time but it will happen.
The UAW has the responsibility of ensuring high wages and make sure we all have jobs
Both attained in this agreement
To vote no will not get us more and it will not put us on strike.
A no vote will cause further public hatred, media frenzy on our entitlement culture and losses in market share
A no vote will cause moving wages, benefits and bonuses around where in the end it will be the same compensation.
The IUAW will not put us in an uncompetitive position to start losing investment and future products going to lower paid countries
To vote no on this good, fair agreement will further push public hatred, media browbeating and the inability to further organize the lower paid transplants
A no vote will be devastating to the D3 autoworkers as a whole
Voting no will not gain us more income or higher bonuses; it will only hurt our ability to make even better gains in 2015
Has anybody wondered, if just a short 4 years ago the average worker was getting costing $70 an hour, but $27 an hour was "legacy" costs for retirees, why is it $58 an hour now that those "legacy" costs have been dealt with??
If inflation has driven up labor costs $15 an hour in just 4 years, than why haven't we got a raise in 7 yeas to help us with inflation??????????????????????????
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Well, I doubt if you'll get COLA, even if you strike. Deal with it.
ROTF....LMBO!!!
Len_A. You are a piece of cake. "Deal with it". That tells me you are trying to get anyone (and everyone, for that matter), get so upset that someone, anyone will go so far as to threaten you. Then when it happens, the glass house has the URL address looked up. Then soon the person is fired for threatening a co-worker, whether they be Blue or White Collar. Nice try.
So now, in this day and age, the big men have Cyber Bullies instead of the Paid Thugs they used back in the day. But, I have your number (figure of speach), I have outed you. YOU ARE NOTHING BUT A WHITE COLLAR BULLY. DEAL WITH IT.
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Dane - You asked how they came up with the $58 an hour and I gave you the formula. Here is a link to the Ford press release from 2007 that has the answer I copied and pasted. These show rates pre concesions in the $70 range. My link
The math is basically:
(Base wages + overtime + vacation pay + benefits + future retirement costs for current workers)/ total hours worked. In 2006 benefit and fringe cost was $38.13/hour.
It is fitting that you used the phrase "education crap".
Your link leads to what; more rhetoric crap. It DID NOT give a dollar for dollar breakdown exactly what the costs, per hour, are for all these benefits (including the legal benefits that very few use).
What you want me to believe is that Ford Motor Company pays out $5,200 a month in benefits for me and my fellow workers. As I said before, IF YOU CAN'T BREAK IT DOWN (into a dollar per dollar amount for each benefit provided), DON'T TRY TO EXPLAIN IT AWAY WITH DRIBBLE!!!
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Simple sollution;
Look at all your W2's since 2006 and tell me year to year how much you have lost.
First, we have lost $2.12 in COLA (in today's market).
Second, we have lost 19% in buying power due to inflation.
Third, we have lost another small percentage in tax increases.
But the first two are HUGE!!!! What my $28 an hour wage (plus COLA) could buy in 2006, now takes a wage of $35.90 an hour to buy.
So, LS, apparently you did not do your homework. You fail the class. Go back to 3rd grade.
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I live in the north west corner of Westland, in the Livonia school district, in a subdivision that was finished being built in 1998. My neighbors include a half a dozen hourly Detroit Three employees, including a couple of Ford and the rest GM employees. We've got three UPS employees and one FedEx, a couple of teachers, several formerly unionized Delta airlines employees, a bunch of auto supplier engineers, and a bunch of retirees, half GM & Ford hourly who took buyouts two years ago, and the rest salaried retirees.
Out of 125 households, there isn't one God damn one where any one earner made $100K last year, or any other year before that, and of those households who had anything above $90K, it took both husband & wife to make that combined.
<<remainder of post deleted>>
Here we go again. A professed WHITE COLLAR CHUMP trying to shower us with scare tactics and other rhetoric. PLEASE GO HOME, YOU WHITE COLLAR BLATHERING, OVER-OPINIONATED DRILLHEAD.
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Do the math and you'll see with the COLA lump sum your wage goes up by .70 cents an hour.
Just a reminder: Did you see what happened at Catepillar a few years back?\
Those who fail to study history are destined to repeat it.
You have that right, trm1111. Those who fail to study history are destined to repeat it. Apparently you failed to see that in the 1910's inflation rose 100% in just 6 years. That is why COLA is necessary. To protect from inflation. In the 70's, inflation rose 70% in 6 years. Could this happen in today's market?? Count on it. It happens every time the U.S. comes out of a recession. The last was in the 90's when inflation rose 30%.
Even though we have had decreases in our income, inflation has rose 19% in the last 6 years. And we haven't even come close to coming out of the current recession. What happens then? How much will inflation increase? Be assured, it WILL increase. 30%? 70%? 100%? More? It is possible. Yet all you want for protection from this is a $6,000 signing bonus and then $1,500 a year to protect you??
BTW, my understanding is that COLA would be $2.12 today if we still had it. But, really, that doesn't compare one bit with your 70 cents, does it.
People like you are like the natives in the movie "The Gods Must Be Crazy" when a Coca Cola bottle hit one in the head and he couldn't figure out what happened. You, also, won't know what happened when your spending power is cut in half because of inflation. It has all ready been cut by 19% since the last time you got a raise. So, wha you could buy with a $28 an hour wage in 2005, now takes a wage of $33.33 to buy in todays market.
But, keep your head up; in four years when you lose your house and/or your car and/or any other assets you may own, you can look up into the sky and say, "The Gods Must Be Crazy"!!!
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Someone posted that it would be $2.12 /hr if we had never lost it and it wasnt rolled into our hrly wage . I'm not sure I agree but according to the BLS, inflations has risen around 10.7--11.3 % from 2007 thru August of 2011. This is for unadjusted(which most bargaining contracts go by), all Urban workers, all items included.
Waldo, inflation in the U.S. has risen 8% since we gave up COLA. It has risen 19% since we gave up our first concessions in 2005.
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Let me get this straight. I should vote YES because I am going to get $6000 in bonus signing and $1500 a year for 4 years. A whole whopping $12,000. Yet, when we gave up COLA, we gave up about $2.00 an hour. Since the work week is 40 hours and we have been without COLA for 2 1/2 years, that means the 40 hour a week worker has missed out on about $11,000 (40 hours x 52 weeks for 2 1/2 years). Now just think if you work more than 40 hours per week. There are many at our plant that get paid for at least 70 hours per week with overtime, some even more. That works out for those to be about $18,000. That is just for 2 1/2 years. Do I really need to throw out the numbers for a four year period? Well, I will. The overtime worker would give up around $29,000. So, take that $12,000 back to the negotiating table and get us back our COLA.
And I will not even touch the fact that the inflation we are due to face in the next few years will make your paycheck and bonuses look like an allowance from your daddies.
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Well, though I don't agree with the TRUE attitude that Gary is portraying here, he sure has made a few of you look like idiots. If you can't tell he is being sarcastic, then maybe you should go get your Websters Dictionary and look up the word.
However, I still do not agree on the position that we should accept the contract as it is without ANY protection from the inflation that is surely going to hit us soon and it will hit us like a ton of bricks. Hope all of you that vote YES are saving your money big time awaiting the time that we pull out of this recession and inflation makes your paycheck look like a burger flipper at MickyD's.
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Let me ask u this question. Is the company going to relay on this group to put out a quality product? Weather you believe it or not it takes time to train people and who would do that? Supervisors sure as hell don't know how to do the jobs hell I bet the engineers can't even do half the jobs they overload. A lot of people are on the fence. Tired of feeling like their are constaintly getting slapped in the face.
Yes, this jus sounds like more scare tactics from a white collar worker. Sure seems to be a heck of a lot of them on this forum site. Spreading rhetoric and scare tactics seems to be not only the managements job, but I think the union is sitting there with them.
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First of all, I think most of your negotiators are college educated.
Second of all, bringing up what happened to Chrysler workers in the 1980's shows how narrow minded and ass backwards your point of view is. You have MORE competition than just Chrysler & GM. You have the transplants to deal with, and in case you didn't get the memo two years ago, those in Congress, Democrats and Republicans alike, gave not only the Detroit CEO's but Ron Gettlefinger a verbal beating over the disparity in pay between the Detroit Three and the transplants. After you remove things like the jobs bank, the next most irritating thing to non auto industry middle class Americans is COLA. The idea that they should be loyal to their fellow American and buy Detroit iron, so that you can have inflation protection that they, the customers, do NOT have, irritates them to no end. You want to get COLA, then enjoy it when you're on ILO, as you lose sales.
What are you going to do, in order to help your non auto industry neighbors, get inflation protection? Oh, wait, there's not a damn thing you can do.
You going to help organize the transplants? Most of their employees already see staying non union, because of consumers reactions to things like COLA, is in their best interest. Good luck helping convince them otherwise.
You think? You think our negotiators are college educated? I can tell you that I do not know one person from our plant that went down to IUAW that has any college education other than what some of them learned in the trade classes.
Sure glad you brought up the idea that we must compete with the TRANSPLANTS. Seems to me that Mr. Mullaly is NOT competing with the TRANSPLANTS. Didn't I just read that he makes more money than most of the transplants CEO's all put together???
And yes, you do sound too much like management. Therefore, just stay away. This seems to be a place for blue collar workers to throw ideas out to each other and not for white collar big stuffs to throw rhetoric at us that is just meant to scare us into voting for the contract. In fact, if you were posting in true honesty, you would identify yourself as a white collar worker so that the rest would realize just where your true colors and posts come from.
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Hourly Labor Cost
Labor costs can be defined and measured in a number of ways. One of the most meaningful measures is the total
average hourly cost to the company per hour worked. This includes: (1) all the dollars paid to employees, (2) the cost of
contractual benefits for employees, and (3) the cost of statutory payments, such as Social Security and Workers'
Compensation – all calculated on the basis of hours worked by employees.
One element of total average hourly cost is the gross average hourly earnings (GAHE). This is essentially what
shows up in the paycheck. It includes base wages, cost-of-living allowance and premium payments.
Another element, the benefits and fringe cost, includes the cost of all insurance benefit coverage, supplemental
unemployment plan costs, paid time off, statutory payments, profit sharing, Guaranteed Employment Number (GEN) and
all other miscellaneous payments and costs.
Marginal Economist? Sounds more like a politician. You said one heck of a lot and did not even come close to actually answering the questions people are posting. If you can't break it down, don't try to explain it away with dribble. I can tell you that included in those costs are things many of us NEVER use, such as the education crap, the lawyer junk, etc.
But keep up the good work, Marginal Economist. Blow your rhetoric up our arses and think that all of us will accept answers that really don't do a thing to help us actually get an answer to our questions. You sound much like our Cost Accoutants that don't know their job.
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First of all, I think most of your negotiators are college educated.
Second of all, bringing up what happened to Chrysler workers in the 1980's shows how narrow minded and ass backwards your point of view is. You have MORE competition than just Chrysler & GM. You have the transplants to deal with, and in case you didn't get the memo two years ago, those in Congress, Democrats and Republicans alike, gave not only the Detroit CEO's but Ron Gettlefinger a verbal beating over the disparity in pay between the Detroit Three and the transplants. After you remove things like the jobs bank, the next most irritating thing to non auto industry middle class Americans is COLA. The idea that they should be loyal to their fellow American and buy Detroit iron, so that you can have inflation protection that they, the customers, do NOT have, irritates them to no end. You want to get COLA, then enjoy it when you're on ILO, as you lose sales.
What are you going to do, in order to help your non auto industry neighbors, get inflation protection? Oh, wait, there's not a damn thing you can do.
You going to help organize the transplants? Most of their employees already see staying non union, because of consumers reactions to things like COLA, is in their best interest. Good luck helping convince them otherwise.
Looks like you answered my question about your job and who you work for. Not once did you use the term "we" as in we workers. Therefore, your ranting and raving is lost on those who really are Ford UAW workers. So please get your miserable feeble mind off of these posts and go join your cronies in the glass house.
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NO voters do not understand that Ford will not raise the already highest in industry fixed wage. Ford is a business and they need to stay as an attractive as they can to the investers and credit raters. I guess that a lot of workers think that they know better then people with business degrees. Most factory workers were not hired in for how smart they are. I am not saying that all of the NO voters are just plain stupid with low IQ's but I think that the HATE for the company and DISTRUST of the IUAW can cloud the good judgement of even the most intelligent ones. They are tired of feeling like victims(aww) and know they have the POWER TO SHOW THE MAN! LOL. They do not care and are willing to gamble( with my money too) even though THE RISKS OF A NO VOTE OUT WEIGH THE REWARDS! If this thing passes do not fret NO voters your way of life( at least financially) will still be pretty good compared to most others that do not have a college degree. If you short sighted No voters are lucky the Yes voters will keep you from hurting yourselfs( and the rest) when we pass this decent deal under the current economical circumstances.
sez, please explain to me where Ford gets off telling us we are being paid $58 an hour. As a person getting paid $28 cash an hour, I do not see where I am making $30 an hour in benefits. And Ford refuses to break it down for us so we can better understand why they claim so. Therefore, the claim MUST BE BOGUS. If the claim were true, they would gladly break it down for us.
You would be surprised how many of your younger co-workers are working at Ford but still have a college degree. They started working here under the guise of this being a well payed job. Now, it is barely enough to pay the bills because as the cost of living and inflation keeps creeping up, our wages stay the same. Well, actually they have decreased since we gave up COLA. Did you know that according to NCCP (National Coalition of Children in Poverty), that it now takes a job paying over $17 an hour just to stay out of poverty. You know, "keep your head afloat". By the time this contract is over and the big possibility that inflation will soon SKYROCKET, my $28 an hour would probably just be enough to put food on the table. Oooops. Then I won't be able to afford a new fancy car to keep you working. Sorry, I didn't get a raise to be able to afford a new car and your job just went to another country.
NO COLA, NO DICE
in Ford Employee Forum
Posted
Shows how much you know, wages are NOT a fixed cost; they are a direct variable cost. . A part that goes into a car is a fixed cost. Each part (such as a brake) costs the same coming from a shipment of parts. You do not get a shipment of parts and pay one price for one brake and another price for another brake from the same batch.
However, it may take one assembler 10 seconds to put the part into the car when assembling; it may take 15 seconds for another assembler. That is not a fixed cost. Wages for a period are added up and then divided into the amount of products you assemble, making it a direct variable cost. Then you apply the amount you have found by the division to each product you make.
Supervisor salaries and your skilled trades wages are a variable overhead cost. Should I go on or do you want to still argue your untruths????