postban

This is just a review of my experiences with the kit. This is a transfer of knowledge and opinion, not an attack or bash. THP refers to it as my "saga", you can call it what you want. Most will call it too much to read. THP = Turbo Horsepower Cliff notes provided; Long story short, my THP twin turbo kit did not fit, it has been returned, they sent refund check. Skip to "Specific Problems" Long Story long, Received the kit (in total) a week into January after waiting approx 50days (as promised). Tried to follow THP's 19 step set of instructions. They were sent as .doc files, I printed them out and made a folder for use in the garage. There seemed to be a lot of particulars missing from the instructions. Any missing information was requested from THP and provided promptly. I was approached by THP to expand and refine the instruction manual, for compensation, on a few occasions and agreed to give it a go after I had successfuly installed the kit (never happened) Installed the K with the help of some friends, made certain it was plumb and square to 1/16" front to back, side to side. Had to follow instructions downloaded from Maximum Motorsports site because QA1 directions supplied were inadequate. Next I noticed the oiling setup for the two turbos. Brass fittings, t's and 90's fed two oil lines off a single feed from the bottom of the stock oil cooler. I did not like it. It "seemed" insufficient insurance that my $$$ turbos would be kept supplied with oil. Completely my opinion, no facts on flow required or possible with this setup. It might have been sufficient however I decided to be sure oil supply was a certainty. I acquired a full Evans cooling setup along with numerous other components required for external oil cooling/management. All of this took about a month of spare time wrenching, making brackets, budgeting mounting space for all the components, making hoses/fittings. pics here http://s44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/postban/oil/ plans here http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/post...-setupsmall.jpg First fitment problem I ran into was passenger header not fitting, it was hitting the K bolt (see 1. below) I notified THP, they sent a new modified geometry one to me, it fit without hitting the K bolt. I installed the Drivers uppipe, turbo and downpipe and noticed another two problems. The uppipe was touching the steering linkage shaft and the rubber bellows, also the downpipe was pointing at the wrong angle, way too far toward the engine. I notified THP and was advised to confirm correct left/right downpipe and told them I already had, they requested I double check and I did so. There are different angle to the flanges as you can see here http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/postban/fit008.jpg The other downpipe would allow only one bolt to be installed so I was certain I did it right the first time. THP sent me some uncoated "factory seconds" that they had confirmed fit their welding jigs exactly. These were just to trial fit, new coated ones were promised if the "seconds" proved the original pipes to be at fault. During the few days waiting for the new pipes I tried fitting the downpipes to the bottom exhaust pipe. Items #4 and #5 in this pic. The THP instruction manual advises to sand off the JetHot coating on the lower portion of the downpipe so it will "slip fit" into the bottom exhaust pipe. I removed it down to bare steel using a die grinder fitted with a sanding disc. I also removed all coating from inside the exh pipes. Neither down pipes would fit the exhaust pipes. I ground the down pipes and exh pipes for approx 2 hrs. Used up multiple sanding discs and sanding drums trying to remove more and more steel to get them to fit. I got them to engage approx 1.5" but it did not seem to be enough and held the exhaust pipes too low when held up to visualize position relative to the turbo. It needed more work but had to sit for a couple days (never got them to fit properly) I feel this connection type is too much hassle and wished it would have been v-band or other type of exhaust joint. Or possibly move the connection further downstream. Back to the angle problem; The newly arrived uncoated pipes had exactly the same fitment problems. A later discovery that the K-member may have been wrong/bad would possibly have provided sufficient clearance for the uppipe but the downpipe would have still been at the same wrong angle to mount the bottom exhaust pipe. THP advised it would be OK if I cut off the flange off the downpipe and provided them with the angle I needed to fit the bottom exhaust pipe. I realized I did not have the equipment or certainty of the result to give them that info. A few degrees off and it would be the same problem again, also new downpipes would have meant removing more jethot coating to try to fit the exh pipes. My enthusiasm for doing my own install was dimming. My faith that "the jigs" at THP were correct was going fast. THP was still supportive and offering encouragement. Timeframe is late April, time to be driving, not piecemeal installing turbo Kits. All the above elapsed approx 3.5 mos due to my heavy work schedule. Building a TT car in your spare time is a bad idea, lesson learned. I got a local custom turbo manf, Stenod, to pick up the car/kit and attempt to complete the install or customize the thp kit so it would fit. I was willing to do what it took still to get the twins installed. This decision was not welcomed by THP. To sway me from transporting the car to Stenod THP offered to fly a tech in to finish the install. Knowing the condition of the kit and multiple poor fit problems it was simply not a matter of installing it, or forcing it into the car, a lot of correcting needed to be done too. The guy would have had to bring or make new pipes here, in my Garage. It did not seem feasible so I said no thanks. THP also offered to pay for half of shipping the car to New Mexico where they would complete it. Same thing, they are gonna have to remake the pipes that were hitting/wrong angle. Plus I did not want my car 2000 miles away. I had no good feeling left about the kit, fading trust in THP's pipes. Judge that how you may now but when you are $7500 into a kit with this many problems let me know how you would decide. The car was staying here, Stenod would work with THP to fix the downpipe, that is what I wanted. Stenod tried to fit a a few more pipes but actually wound up finding more problems than I did. The IC had been mounted since the K was installed, months ago. When trying to install the IC to MAF pipe (#9* in this pic ) it would not align either at the IC end or clear the inner fender in the engine bay. I personally tried to fit it for 20 minutes in Stenods shop, just this one pipe. It would not go into the car and line up with the IC. It was off by about 10-15 degrees where it mates to the IC. That was the point where I decided I was done with this kit. I honestly fought with it from the first minute after the K install up to this point and finally said enough. I notified THP I wanted to return the kit for refund and would have Stenod box and ship the kit back. Stenod bubble wrapped the pipes and components and boxed them up using shipping peanuts. Every piece was insured to a value set by THP. turbos $1,500 Intercooler $1,000 Waste gates $600 Sullivan and elbow $1200 K member $600 Alt relo kit $200 Headers $1500 Piping $1000 Misc. boxes $1000 each When the boxes arrived I was notified that the "packing job was terrible and lots of damage had occured" Pics of damage from THP resulting in $600+ debits from my refund Bent IC tab, scratched turbo housings, nicked fuel rails and entire kit (ALL PIPES)scratched beyond possibility of resale (requiring complete refinishing) were the damages described. http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/postban/100_0532.jpg http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/postban/100_0535.jpg http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/postban/100_0541.jpg http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/postban/100_0544.jpg http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/postban/100_0546.jpg http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/postban/100_0547.jpg That second pic shows the rails loose in the box along with the coilover springs. Anybody else think it could not possibly have survived 2000 miles like that with only being nicked? No insinuation here but I am certain Stenod did not ship it like that. Refund check minus damage debits was received shortly afterwards. Specific problems; 1.pass hdr hit the k, they sent a new one, it fit. Pic of it hitting http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/postban/headers003.jpg Pic of the replacement and the poor fit one http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/postban/psb004.jpg 2. Drivers header hit the k (this was during trying to install trans, THP states QA1 K is at fault) http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/postban/fit_015TXT.jpg 3.drivers uppipe hit the steering linkage. http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/postban/fit_015TXT.jpg 4.drivers downpipe hit the main crank pulley. THP sent replacement verified as being "true to jig" but same exact problems were found. original downpipe problem http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/postban/fit_004.jpg replacement downpipe problem http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/postban/fit_014TXT.jpg 5. IC to maf pipe hit the fender and would not align with IC. Pipe is marked with "9*" in this pic. I do not have a pic of it not fitting but it would not. 6.K member sent was wrong/bad one, per THP, and held the engine twisted so much trans would not go in the car. A-Arms sent pushed the front wheels out of the fenders, did not have a way to measure the difference between stock and QA1 but there was about 3/4" rubber visible past the fender lip. Supposedly you can swap out the ones sent (unmarked, no telling if they were Fox or SN95) but why should I have to? trans problem pics http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/post...81__Custom_.jpg http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/post...82__Custom_.jpg DESIGN ISSUES and improvement suggestions After some research I went back and reviewed the design of the kit. Here are a couple of issues I found that could be improved resulting in a better kit. 7. Entire assembly of uppipe, wastegate, turbo, downpipe, Intake pipe/filter and exhaust are unsupported and basically just hang off the headers. No turbo support brackets are provided. The only arguable means of support is the coldside pipes from turbo to IC but they mount with silicon hose allowing flex. I estimate 50-60lbs per side static weight. I can only estimate the load of going over bumpy roads while the headers are redhot from driving. The center of the turbos are approx 24" from the meeting point of the uppipes and headers. Any help calculating the G loading stresses would be appreciated. Parts labeled 1-8 in this pic equals one side assembly. http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/postban/kitside.jpg http://www.turbohorsepower.nstemp.com/ithree.html 8.IC is hung by two tiny straps at the top, no attachment at bottom, free to move back and forth during bumps due to load from issues covered in #7. IC straps 9. The turbos fight each other in the IC because it is not divided at the top, you can stick a wire right through one side and it will come out the other. Should be sealed off. THP claims there is something in there but if the wire passes easily through.... same pic as #8 10.Wastegates are vented to atmosphere, instead of being recirculated into the downpipes. This is described as being an open header sound when it activates. open wastegate at lower right 11. Provided "H-pipe" is painted with paint that rubs off on your hands. A lot of it was rubbed off when it arrived here from THP. Welds on it were pure booger quality. No pic 12.Welding on the entire kit is consistent with what you see here; http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/postban/psb004.jpg http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/postban/thp005-1.jpg 13.Collectors in the headers are super abrupt, very short blend. http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/postban/fit015.jpg 14. Drv. uppipe goes directly through the power steering lines, they must all be bent and rerouted or they will touch hot metal, same on the pass side with AC lines, "pry them out of the way" was the direction given. Then they would all come back to rest and scrape on the turbo pipes. http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/postban/fit012.jpg (I know, copper fittings... temp fix till I could get more good line) http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/postban/headers014.jpg (steering linkage hanging free, appears to have clearance but does not when connected to spindle. No room for pass side cold pipe to IC, it goes right where this black canister is. http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/postban/fit002.jpg 15. Hood needs to have center rib cut out or modified to prevent Sullivan Elbow from rubbing. http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/post...llivan-rubs.jpg Thats it, thanks for reading. Oh yeah, I bought a Hellion Single kit, received it in a week, fit perfect, car is running awaiting tuning.