mercblue281

looks pretty sharp. i'd like to give it a try we need some american euro beaters in the market. if they're built in austrailia who cares. people in the states are so clueless that if you took the blue oval off the front they'd think its a new 7-series bmw or an audi

Finally another person who realizes that today's car market will be severely deficient in severe duty service vehicles if the panther is finally axed. Lots of people understand this, most aren't on the forums. Yes its been rehashed that the panther is dated, however it is still exceptionally good at what it does, and is certainly capable of making money. Being a dated platform also doesn't mean Ford should cease it altogether since it would effectively hand those sales over to a competitor since the buyer of the panthers of today WANT OR NEED RWD FULL-SIZE vehicles. Its the ONLY vehicle on the market that is possible of serving some buyers. Until Ford has a better option developed they should keep it/update it. I for one would love to see a CV sport offered on the retail market again since mercury is being canned. And I'll take the F-150 motor in it, thats a damn good idea. side note: how on earth did the transit connect discussion end up here? ford brought it here because it filled a niche - urban light delivery. this (sans the arrival of it for livery service - if that happens) in no way competes with the panther platform. it fits the the bill for florists, cake makers and other businesses operating short runs in urban/suburban environments. Makes sense for Ford since they wisely no longer sell a minivan and an econoline is overkill for most of these operators. Until the purpose built transit connect you'd see these businesses using chevy hhr, minivans or even scion toyboxes.

well maybe its not too far off. I think its necessary. Just read a blurb about GM building a RWD caddy flagship. If Ford is insistent on Lincoln churning up volume to replace Merc and gaining prestige to charge more they're going to need to do the same. Its been discussed here at length that you need volume to have a profitable platform - what is GM going to put a big Caddy on? the Caprice (former G8)? I don't know GM's line well enough because well they've sucked and haven't had anything interesting for me. I think Ford better get something going here because if they think lincoln's gonna pick up - they're gonna need more product than a couple sedans, a minivan (yes, a CUV is a 4 door minivan) and the navigator. Whatever it might be, it surely will need to share a platform with a (or a couple) Ford models to have good volume. remember this DOA concept? - http://www.leftlanenews.com/ford-interceptor-concept.html

I think thats an appropriate way to look at it. My view has been that you don't completely abandon the core market for the vehicle and put them in limbo. The uncertainty about the lack of a RWD platform is what will force customers to competitors and hurt the loyalty Ford has built. You're right that any new RWD platform would have to have an upmarket model and theres no question that even the basic Ford model would have to charge a premium over the current panthers. if its a better product, people will pay more, especially on the lincoln side. Ford's trucks get a premium because they're the best. If Ford gave us guidance on a RWD platform to be incorporated into a couple lincoln models as well as a consumer ford model and a fleet/livery service model that would likely go over well. I don't know if they could use the same RWD platform in a mustang as in a larger sedan. I think that would be a mistake. The mustang is well suited to its size and platform. Chrysler seems to have tried that with the challenger on the charger/300 platform. It just doesn't look right. Its bigger than a mustang but not in a good way. haven't driven it but it does nothing for me on the street.

Yeah its unfortunate. I'm finally getting to a point where i could afford to buy a new car and at the car company i've championed since i was 16 is pulling the plug on the only desirable model on the market. Not only that but the standby vehicle would've been a V8 explorer or mountaineer and those won't be available either. I don't agree that Ford's cheapened the GM. It's basically unchanged since '03 when they changed the front suspension with the exception of the front grille and bumper. They certainly haven't added to or improved it but i couldn't specifically identify anywhere the 'cheapened' it. The guys at STAP do a fine job assembling the vehicle, if they know of anything thats ford's done lowsy they'd let you know. Like you said without a viable option in the new market - you're left with no choice but to look for good used. I might even resurrect my '92 seeing as Ford doesn't want my money.

Ford sold 93k panthers as recently as '08. Combine that with however many 300's chrysler sold and they're should be a considerable #. You're right some people, esp in colder climes want AWD but the problem with most AWD offerings is they're FWD primary and they're usually extra pricey.

The need for a RWD sedan in the market is there. If it wasn't chrysler would've never brought back a 300 RWD and GM would not be talking about making the G8 a Caprice. The CTS would be FWD along with all the other lux sedans. Ford's best advantage with the panthers was that the car was a genuine bargain when compared with the other offerings from other manufacturers. Yes the panthers are fleet service whores because they're good at it. A substantially built RWD sedan that can handle the abuses put on it is desirable whether for fleet service or consumers. I also don't think the police market is going to be willing to shell out a good 5 or 10k (i'm guessing but theres no question the taurus will cost more than the vic) more ford is going to need to charge for a fleet Taurus SHO. Taxpayers are strapped and some departments will have to look elsewhere. I also know as a matter of preference most LEO's would prefer a RWD offering. I don't agree with those who just roll over and accept mediocre FWD consumer offerings from the manufacturers. YES Ford makes very good FWD cars now, but thats not good enough for some purposes and customers. Can Ford kill the panther platform? yes they can, BUT give the market a worthy successor.

If they had done better reinvestment in the Panther or designed an all new RWD we wouldn't be having this discussion because the sales would be up in the 100's of thousands. Not only that they could take a plant like STAP and be running it at full capacity. They wanna ditch Merc, i don't like it but i understand it. They kill off the only solidly built reasonable priced RWD sedan available in NA while its still selling 70-80k units? that makes zero sense without giving the market a better alternative. the only alternatives are in competitors lots and thats not acceptable especially when they are not up to par with the panther. Ford is the leader here and has been for over a decade, an improved full size RWD would be well received and certainly sell taking away from the 300C, replacing the existing panther sales and probably adding new customers. The dopes in suit should listen to the customers, not the gov'ts or marketing idiots. There's plenty of things they've been doing right in other market segments, killing off the panther before giving the market a suitable replacement is not a good decision.

Please don't twist what i'm stating. You make it sound like i'm against saving childrens lives. Of course not. My point is that all the technology can't MAKE people better drivers and it can't be a complete safeguard against accidents. In fact by making people dependent on certain things you may end up with unintended consequences such as poor adaptation to changing road conditions and weather or backing up without looking and trusting the tech. The only solution to that is better driver awareness, focus and training. Unfortunately all of those are severely lacking.

Of course not, I have to trust that doctors and fighter pilots are paying close attention to task at hand. Thats simply not the case when it comes to the majority of drivers out there. Did i say take ABS out of the car so we have to pump the brake again? No. I said the value of some of these features is highly questionable and most people will not want to pony up for them given the option. Would i pony up for a well built RWD sedan? yes but leave out the silly stuff I don't want to pay for that. Would a former panther buyer pony up for a taurus at these asking prices with all these features given the fact that ford is giving them no full-size RWD options? Probably not. Thats why i've said Ford shouldn't just cede these sales to competitors fleet or otherwise. Thats the original point - Ford should have a viable RWD sedan in play before killing off the panther. If its a better car than the panther, people will buy it and in more volume than they bought the old panther.

unfortunately the technology will NOT help these people to become safer drivers. They'll become accustomed to NOT being aware of their surroundings (assuming they are semi-conscious already) and immediate traffic and their skills will not improve. We're lucky most of the drivers are able to stay awake and not be too hazardous to other people. Unfortunately, none of this technology is going to prevent the really awful ones from getting their license in the first place.

Thats what I said about the idiots. As for the features - there are some that don't make sense not to have whether it be from a safety or convenience standpoint. My point was that Ford cannot monetize these silly additional features that i had described. Yes Ford will try to up the MSRP with an add-on package but if you were to give the buyer the actual cost of what they add to the car or what they cost to repair and they'll opt out. And yes i prefer a simple tank like the GM because its durable and easy to repair and it doesn't annoy me with ridiculous features that i don't need. I'm going to look in the mirror and out the window before i change lanes, I'm going to look behind me when backing up and i damn well don't need GPS built in or otherwise. If Ford thinks me or other former grand marquis buyers are going to shell out $35k -$40k for a Taurus with these features they're a little misguided. I'll take the most basic model with the big engine. Leave the driving to me thats why i have the wheel, gas and brake. There's a history with these things. We had digital dash in an '91 continental, thing went beserk and couldn't give you a proper temp reading. There used to be a motorized trunk closer that pulled the trunk sealed - broke twice. Even on the '92 GM's the air suspension springs and motor broke before anything else. On a newer BMW there's no dipstick to check the oil, thats absolutely ridiculous. My point is that when the value of an added feature is questionable and adds more complication and parts there is always an increased risk of a problem for the buyer which is not good. It also does not increase sales prices as desired, nor does it increase resale value. Look at toyota, no one has been able to explain what was wrong with a throttle cable in the first place that made them replace it with an electronic system. Because it was electronic, it was blamed for these crashes, meanwhile if you had a regular spring loaded throttle cable all you have to do is pull it back and see if it closes.

Shouldn't Lincoln have a vehicle to challenge a 5-series BMW or a Lexus GS before it worries about a compact (CUV or otherwise)? If you look at the top luxury brands (including caddy) their flagships are established leaders that can keep a halo around the brand. In the NA market there is MB, BMW, Lexus, Audi, Caddy that can carry a full lineup based on reputation. The history of compact or entry level luxury is sketchy here - we've had failures: X-type, Catera, Cimarron (haha!) probably others i forgot. And successes: Acura Integra, Lexus IS. It just seems to me that before Ford assumes Lincoln volume can be driven higher by entry level luxury, they need a full stable of mid and full size models capable of attaining pricing equivalent or close to its competitors. They're close now that they have the MKS but that isn't going to steal buyers from the germans. If they wanna bring back an LS i think that would be well received. People still pay big $$ for those used and some are almost 10 years old now. That was the last Lincoln introduced to critical acclaim and able to charge its sticker. Bringing in a domestic Lincoln that could attack the CTS, 5-series, Lexus GS, etc. could win over a lot of buyers and get a price point that would carry more cache. Saying "look here we've got a $30k Focus spin off!" just isn't going to bring the brand up in the eyes of the public like the Navigator and LS did. Lincoln right now does not have the cache to shoot low and bring volume way up. Ford should know you can't rejigger a Fiesta or Focus and get $10k more for it than you would as a Ford. At least not yet they can't.

Thats such garbage - these 'cool' features are there because they can be done not because people are willing to pull money out of the wallets to pay for them. If you show people what they need to actually PAY for each of these or PAY to fix them and the same people say they could live without it. There are now standard features that definitely should be there on all cars - power steering, ABS, power windows & mirrors, A/C, etc. SYNC is an example of a much needed innovative feature. The first thing i did to my GM was get a pioneer deck with bluetooth and install it so i could make hands free voice calls. Best thing ever to happen to mobile phones. What i don't want is the car beeping at me for no reason, an expensive repair bill for unnecessary features and a generation of drivers who are trusting the car to check blind spots or behind the bumper for them. I don't wanna be on the road with those morons. We've got enough problems with the idiots who flat out can't drive the car in the first place let alone have the car guide them through it.

I can't WAIT until the livery commission has to double cab rates on the general public. I'll be laughing my a** off. The prius' and other crap that NYC is forcing into the cab fleets are going to have to be serviced an replaced at twice the rate of the vics. not only that the suspension is gonna get the snot kicked out of it from the roads. the bottomed out prius is emblematic of whats going to go on. Plus if you're paying for a cab - do you REALLY wanna squish into the back of a prius or jetta? heck no. the escape hybrid cab seemed to have the best shot at being part of the cab fleet but hasn't seemed to become a dominant player. I just find it funny that whenever i get in a cab and check the odo and talk to the cabbie - they LOVE the vic. it gives them 300-400k+ miles and it keeps service costs down. If it wasn't for the city, their stupid hybrid rules and lack of foresight the vic would remain the primary go to for the fleet.