paris

I call it "comic relief". You guys are very good at catching my grammatical errors. Are you that good at catching potential quality issues b4 they exit your facility? I said the other day that I didn't attend any schools in Michigan. I also didn't major in English Literature. You said "an" instead of "and".

Thanks WIZ. That will surely get you some praise from your new groupies! Iv'e always said, "Im very glad that the bulk of the good workers of this great company are NOT on this web site." This site seems to draw out the "fringe", and the individuals who are the "something for nothing" types.

WTF, I guess your name kinda says it all. It always amazes me to see the hostility displayed towards people who only tell you the truth! This is one thing I am talking about. You guys want to piss and moan and bitch about everything. Then, idiots like level and captain and wizard(probably all the same person) come on here and agree with everything you say and you think they are hero's. I try to tell you the truth and you don't want to here it. Im a "disgrace". You said something in your post that is very true. "Toyota uses its profits". Yes they do! They have profits to use. They have a workforce that contributes to the overall profitability of the company. Some of our workforce seems to spend their time trying to figure what the company owes them! WTF is up with that? It wont turn around until you accept the truth guys. The U.S. isn't getting weaker WTF. The "domestic" auto industry is. BTW, I didn't attend any schools in Michigan! WTF ever made you think such a crazy thought?

What the hell are you talking about? Have you been in a hole for the past 20 years? Those Toyota's are made in the United States. Those Honda's are made in the United States. All of the "domestics" including Ford, have major stakes in many "foreign" companies. There are Ford products(lots of them), that would have to fly a different flag other that the U.S. flag. What about Canada? Is it ok to own a car made in Canada owned by American Ford and not a car made in Mexico owned by American Ford? You guys got to get over the foreign car thing once and for all. The Japanese already invaded us 30 years ago. Instead of competing with their quality and their low manufacturing costs, you are still trying to belittle the people who just want to drive what they percieve to be a superior product. Make the product that the people want with the quality that the "foreigners" are offering and they will come back. How many ways do we have to say this to you? We have preached quality to everyone for years now. You still don't get it. As far as the buyouts are concerned. We have made many offers and they have been very well recieved up to and including this latest round. Now, it will be assumed that since the remaining people have not displayed an interest in an offer, they are not interested in any future offers. I warned everyone many times that the offers will not go higher. They actually did in some targeted areas but for the most part, they stayed the same. The future reductions will come in a couple of ways. The normal attrition of the retirement eligible workers will continue to assist in reducing the overall numbers. It wont, however be enough to prevent the likelyhood of company wide RIF's which will be plant specific. There are actually areas within the company where they will not be required. Other areas will not be so fortunate. There are no further plans to provide buyout opportunities. They are simply too costly for us to continue. The money allocated to GEN will last for a while. After that, lets just hope the economy picks up and people decide to buy Ford Motor Company products. If you held out thinking you were going to get a better deal than the previous people who took the buyout offers, you thought wrong.

I was reading this and decided that I would add my "insight" for ya, Cap! Since you asked!! Here's the truth. As your memberships fade and the new workforce replaces the people retiring, and taking our "packages", the local unions are becoming faced with some new issues they never had b4. By the time they pay their "per capita" to the I-Union, and the everyday run of the mill cost to keep the building open, there aint much left for the "full time" help that all want a paycheck from the same cookie jar. You now have less membership, paying half the "dues" their "brother" b4 them paid. This ain't rocket science. Somethin's got to give. Guess what? This "vision" you are having is reality for many locals struggling to keep everybody employed. Hell no, they dont want to let anyone go, or "combine" with another local. How would that work? 2 Presidents in the same building? No way man. What about your Recording secretary? Treasurer? Office help? Who's staff is going to get sacrificed for the betterment of the rest? Your secretary is used to making "union scale"! How's she going to survive when she gets a job in the real world? I think you see where Im heading. This "vision" will likely never become reality. I think the real vision is going to be the buildings get sold, an office is rented, and the only one staffing it will be the President who is the only one contractually able to leave the plant while "on the clock". Union meetings can be held in a rented facility. No big deal.

I am refering to YOU!Cap! The nut case that calls him/herself a "Captain". Based solely on the picture you display under your name, I would venture a guess and say your "package" only comes out when you are watching Broke Back Mountain re-runs. Am I close?

This is EXACTLY the kind of sh*t that I get pissed off about. These idiots come on these sites and pass themselves off as somebody who has an "inside track". Then, they "suggest" to people, that there will be more to come so you better wait! I agree, the people who listen to these nut cases like "captain", are just as dumb. But it does happen. Take this advice: Dont listen to ANYTHING that hasn't been issued by your labor relations department, or by your local union, IN WRITING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! EVERYTHING ON THESE FORUMS is second, third and fourth hand information, at best. We will NEVER make official posts to the employees of Ford Motor Company on "chat" web sites. Take that to the bank.

I didn't mean for this to be a tough question. I don't understand why you are making it difficult. Im not trying to prove any point or play any games here. Im serious. Let's refine this down some more. Exclude all packages other than the previous 100K package.

I guess I should have been more specific. Sorry. Lets only talk about the offers available to people who are NOT retirement eligible.

Net out by the company is the same as the 100K cash offer. Maybe this will fit a little better for some people. Im glad you think this offer is sweeter. I have a question that I would like a serious answer to. IF the buyout offer were to be raised to 140K as a replacement to the current 100K offer, should the company go back and give the people who accepted the 100K offer the difference? I am being very serious here and would like to see some opinions. You already know what mine is. Everyone should get the same amount.

Sorry about that Trim. You scared me for a minute when you made the statement about likeing southern Canada. I just made the jump all the way to the Quebec province. Sorry about the INSULT! I think I mentioned once b4 about my travels to the Quebec province. Quebec City and Montreal to be specific. If I ever have the MIS-Fortune to return, it will be too soon! I have been to both cities dozens of times ON BUSINESS. I was bringing work to them. I felt like we were treated like sh*t! Every time was the same. I kinda think the French Canadians got their bad reputation by EARNING IT! I dont like any of them. Really makes you wonder where the name Paris came from doesn't it? Another story on another day maybe.

I don't know where you got the 2 1/2 cars a week figure. I don't want to argue about that though. I want to agree with you concerning the Evangelist. I don't know about the Pope because I didn't realize that he made a salary. Maybe he does. Either way, we are in 100 percent agreement on that subject. You guys are missing the point though. The religion itself isn't mandating that you donate a single cent. There are CHURCHES though that "expect" a "donation". You don't have to attend those churches! I do understand that there are costs associated with ANY building and piece of property though. Somebody has to pay the heat bills. I'll tell you the truth as I see it. I PERSONALLY don't think it's mandatory to attend ANY church to be a good Christian. I don't think that the fact that some "churches" expect "donations" should be a reason for you to doubt ALL religions though. You seem smarter than that. By the way, do you live in the Quebec province?

That's what Im saying Trim. Why spend a meager existance as a Pipefitter in Indianapolis Indiana of all places? If this is all we got, get out there and live it up! Head for the Bahama's or somewhere nice! If all you got is a meager existence in Indiana to look forward to right before the great nothing, I guess maybe Pump and you have the right to be a little shitty about life. By the way. Show me the guy making 200K in a year as an hourly employee of Ford Motor Company and I'll show you a thief!

Pump, Smile, laugh and sleep well? Because there "ain't no" judgement day? Wouldn't it be a damn shame if there was no God and the only existence you had was 20 or so years in ISSP? If you are so convinced that there "ain't no" God, why do you continue to live the meager existence that you do? Take the little extra buyout which will be available to you since you are a Pipefitter and move someplace nice. At least try to get a decent existence b4 you become one with the soil. And, by the way, if you can't deal with the definition of God as I gave it; I understand! It's ok! I wouldn't know what to say either if I were you.

You have the gull to say that all of those thousands of people who accepted buyouts wanted to leave, and were somehow less than you. That's bull, and it tells me alot about people like you that make these kind of statements. You people are always quoting how much money you make. You try to make it sound like you are really working hard for that money. Yeah, it's hard work typing these sentences on company time while being paid. What you need to do is take that buyout and find out what life is REALLY like in the real world. I love the way you make reference to people on this forum who you think work hard and have good ethics! It is the same people who believe the same thing as you and make all of their posts here while on company time! Maybe you are all the same person? One idiot makes sense making multipy posts under different names. Go back to the bathroom and help your friend Captain with his cleaning. He isn't getting things clean while on BON!

You are another dumb A*s just like your brother b4 you Wizard. For the union membership's sake, I am very glad you are NOT an I-rep! You come on here acting like a big man who knows everything and when the time comes to put out, you cave! Just like your bretheren b4 you. YOU are the one that needs to get off of this forum. You are just a wannabe I-rep with multiple aka's and none of you know Sh*t! Go back to the womens bathroom up in the administration building where you clean and get back to work. Is one of your aka's "TheDrunk"?

Thank you very much Pumpmaster! Ok. I will define "God" as follows: "The creator of all that is." Have a great day!

Ok, I'll bite. For the people in the world that didn't recieve "the word" that there is a Creator, and we will all someday stand before Him in judgement, I don't know their fate. The problem you have is the fact that YOU have been made aware of the existence of the Creator, who admittedly is not real tolorant to the "arrogance of man". Now, at the time you were made aware of this little tidbit, you gained ownership of what we call "free will". You can accept what you have been told, or not. BUT, do you really want to take the chance that you are smarter than millions of people b4 you, who believed in Him? Some of the most brilliant people who ever walked this planet are/were firm believers that God exists. Now, you can blame your parents. Pumpmaster can point to the struggles he has underwent in his life as proof of a nonexistent God. You can dismiss all of this God thing as bullshit if you so choose. Thats the beauty of free will. Something to consider though, there is evidence suggesting that some of the most devout atheists got religion on their death beds. Kinda makes you wonder what they might have seen.

Here's the deal. It's real simple and in plain English. If the current proposals don't turn out to be anything that you think you can accept, put your gloves on and go back to the job you were hired to do! Stop talking and go to work! I told you b4 that many people(who matter) are getting very weary of these "packages". The "new and improved" packages next in the pipeline are transfer arrangements and indefinite layoffs along with maybe some additional "re-training" aid to help you in your next career. You are NOT worth more than the previous people who accepted what was offered to them. Cuss at me and call me what you wish. Im just telling you the truth.

Think about this Cap. Don't you think it might have taken a salaried person to allow that vote? Oh yeah! Be careful what you ask for. And, oh by the way, YOU didn't have the BALLS to make this happen and neither did your sidekick Level. Or, are you the same person with multiple identities? B4 you piss off too many salaried people you might consider that your future may hinge on whether or not one of them like the facility you work in. Know what I mean?

You guys wanted a revote. Now, take this opportunity to think a little more seriously about the future this time. I will be first in line at the "none of this is fair" window. But, it is better than the street, or working a job with no union representation. Damn. Did I just say that? Remember what I have told you b4 in some very old posts. Live to fight again another day! You may take a step backwards. At least you didn't go off the cliff!

By demanding "proof" you are displaying agnostic tendencies. Pump claims atheist whereby he is absolute in his assertion that there is no higher being or diety. I dont recall a section in the Bible that gives dates and times for future events. In fact, what is often stated is that "no man knows" those details. According to the Son of God, He doesn't even know those details where the "end" is concerned. I think it is up to us, as individuals, to decide whether or not there is evidence enough to satisfy our questions regarding God's existence. Supplying a specific date and time for the happening of a future event would destroy faith! Everything would become "absolute" thereby negating an individuals "free will"as it has been given to us by the Creator. Thats the beauty of it Trimdingman. You have the free will to NOT believe. However, it brings us back to your first question with regards to "fear". And, yes, anyone who has ever read the Bible should have plenty of fear of God. It don't look healthy to get on His bad side. :shades:

Question 1 answer, Yes I do believe in Hell. Question 2 answer, Yes, I believe "they" would start burning people again! I don't agree with your last sentence Trimdingman. If you read the Old Testament, Especially Exodus and Samuel, the God the Israelites followed, was a ruthless God. He was very unforgiving to the people who didn't do as commanded. I guess it could be said that God himself is the greatest murderer of all time! The problem we run into is, when the "they" people start thinking that "they" can do God's bidding for Him. That's what has happened to the religions of the world. We now have these religious "leaders" in all of the different religions who think they are doing God a favor by "carrying out" His laws for Him! They forgot that God is the creator and therefore has exclusive rights to be a murderer if He so chooses. We dont have the capacity to understand His way of thought on the subject. We see black and white; murder, or not. Thats why we were comanded to NOT "kill", period! It's interesting to see how things have gotten twisted to suit the "they" people's needs through the centuries. I believe that the founders of the United States of America understood this logic and therefore mandated the Church and State separation. They were believers in God. I dont know if they had an actual religion but it doesn't matter. They were smart enough to know that the nut-casses of the world would and could gain power at some point and start the burning that you speak of if they didn't prevent it at the beginning.

Pumpmaster, Answer this question for me please. Was there ever a time in your life when you had a belief in a God? This is not meant to be a trick question in any way.