paris

Wow! Ad hominem huh? You are the one who frequently responds to posts which other people make, with something derogatory or cynical. Remember, your character is a representation of all of the qualities that make you who you are. If you think that people are attacking your character without addressing the issue you present, you are mistaken. I think your character IS a representation of the issues you present and is seriously lacking! It just looks like your character is being attacked because of some of the outragious posts you make and people try to respond to you the only way they know how. By the way, I was in the Indianapolis facility long ago. I have no plans to return. I already know your name! The chances of us having a face to face discussion are basically zero. Please don't send me emails. Any discussions we will have will be done via this forum. Your "cease and desist with ad hominem" proposal is funny. Grow up!

I respect your belief. However, if what you say is true, there are a lot of people in this world who are "out of kilter". Too many people much smarter than I have believed that there is a God who created everything. I find myself having a difficult time questioning their judgement. I tend to respect those b4 me who were crowned King, Emporer, President, ECT., and all shared the same belief. Kinda makes me feel a little on the "outside" by questioning them. You know what Im saying?

Trimdingman, Excellent points! I am in total agreement with what you are saying. Questioning is fine, and normal. There are those however, who feel the opposite. I get the impression that our friend pump is way beyond the "question it" point and is now fanatic! To him, there is something wrong with you if you have a religion! At least in his writings on the internet forums. Never in person.

Here are a few facts that I would like to share. Dale143, I read the entire post that you made concerning Jesus death and resurection. Thank you for that. Bravo! The continuation of the subsequent posts by a few individuals only prove that they are one of three things. They either one, are so truly intellectually challanged that they cannot understand the written word and assess a logical understanding of the information being provided, or two, they understand and acknowlege the writing, but have a warped and sociopathic personality which prevents them from functioning as rational members of society. Or, three, they believe what you have written and have provided, but are so obsessed with the attention brought onto them by being disagreeable, they write what they think will bring them into the "spotlight" anyway. I know a little bit about a few of the people making posts on this site. I can tell you with certainty that the individual who calls himself "pumpmaster", is totally different in his everyday life than what he shows himself to be in his writings on this, and other forums. Very few people in the facility he works would ever even guess him to be the one making those posts. It's like he lives two lives. One on these forums, and the other when he is actually in front of people. I think it's a 'fear' thing myself. I think he is basically afraid to display his true self in his "real" existence for fear of what may happen to him if people seen him for what he is! We all hide ourselves for different reasons at different times. What becomes concerning is when someone hides a part of their self that is so tremendously different from what is real. Those are the ones who personify the term, "postal". Dale143, God will not look unfavorably on you for focusing your attention on people who you can stand in front of and speak the truth to! One of the great drawbacks to the technology we have with this internet is that it allows the weak an additional avenue to dispense the behavior that they would never have the courage to display in front of you.

Would you like me to take this as a challenge Pumpmaster? I actually thought you had ceased with the activities that I was warning you about, which was the use of Ford Motor Company owned computer equipment while bashing the president of the United States. Are you telling me that you are still engaged in that behavior?

CAPlineWORKER, YOU make sense. It is a true BREATH OF FRESH AIR TO SEE a UAW worker who actually appreciates what they got. Others could learn from you. Please keep your GREAT attitude and you will very likely have that job as long as you need it. I need to talk about my favorite subject for a second please. Don't forget Quality. Eat, sleep, dream, live, make, demand QUALITY at every level of production. Dont listen to the doom and gloomers. Quality WILL secure your future. Facilities that have been closed that happened to have good quality, had other issues which tipped the scales. Sorry guys; truth!

Good job Furious. And, I'm not against Union folks. Really. Yeah, I seen that.

Since you are also one of the people who try to act like you have an inside source, YOU make the call. Fact is, you are ALSO a fraud who gets their kicks trying to act like you are "in the know" when you are likely just a janitor who overhears a conversation occasionally and can't wait to repeat it on BON. You people are new versions of the old Wizard and you make me sick.

If it works, dont try to fix it. Im ok with that. Oops, I wasn't supposed to say that.

Level, I dont know who you must think I am. Something that I know though, is that you are NOT who you are trying to pass yourself off as. I must hand it to you though, you do a lot of reading on the master agreements. Do you live in Canada?

Realistically, the best bet for a facility to EFFECTIVELLY bid on work will be to develop a relationship with their engineering department. Many of those guys are very willing to assist the union folks. However, if you bid the work, and are granted the work, you still have to deliver what you have bid. In other words, if you say that the union can do the job in 160 man hours, you MUST do it in that many hours or the engineer may be "reluctant" to help you again. Beware! Make sure your trades people "buy in" to these agreements. I have seen instances where the "actual" labor was twice what the union said it would be. That usually ends up with a mad engineer who is VERY reluctant to help a second time.

I agree ONE HUNDRED PERCENT WITH WHAT CHUCK TOLD BOB KING! That's why Im pissed about this! There is more that can be done! Since Level tries to pass himself off as an International rep., lets see if he can call up Bob and get Chuck back down there.

And by the way, if you are NOT the plant chairman, don't even bother trying to get the number from your controller. If you ARE the chairman, you will still need lots of luck and probably a call from the International Union.

Level, Va te faire foutre abruti ! I actually only have a couple of days here and I'll be gone again. Who knows, it might be forever. If you promise to hold your breath, I can arrange a very long absence. You have to understand though, that I would never leave Ford Motor Company. I have Ford flowing in my veins. :shades: If you were worth two sh*ts, you would be assisting the folks in Tulsa. Dont give me that crap about Chuck did his best. That's bull and you know it.(Dont mis-understand that! I think Chuck is a great person. Sorry Chuck, but I dont think my mentioning your name, will hurt you. You delivered EXACTLY what you were given.) It doesn't have to be this way. Those people deserve better than what they have been given. I can't help them but you guys still might be able to. If, you were worth two sh*ts, but I doubt that you are!

One more thing. Do you think the vote outcome would be the same if it were held again?

I will tell you that if I had my way, glass would NEVER be uncertain about their futures! I love the glass plants. I think Tulsa in particular is a GREAT facility. I think we can all look back to decisions that have been made, that turned out to be wrong. In my opinion, closing Tulsa will be a huge mistake for this company.

Dont get too cocky now Pump. Where did that new plant manager you got now come from? Oh yeah, I remember now, Norfolk! Gee, I guess you can pick Chicago or Detroit as your new home some day. Or, you can hit the steet! I think it's getting about time to get all of the people still drawing a Ford paycheck, into a Ford facility. How's that grab you big boy?

You were told MONTHS ago by me, that these "buyouts" were NOT going to be different from the "buyouts" that were offered b4. Why do you think you need to rehash this topic now and once again act like you are worth more than the people who took previous offers? Do you think we should go back and give all of those folks who took the previous offer an additional check because we have decided to give the current employees a sweeter deal? I dont think it would be fair to anyone to offer a different package today without the inclusion of the folks who were part of the original programs. You union people who are supposed to be all about solidarity, should be demanding equality rather than trying to tell management that you are somehow better than the people who previously accepted our packages, and you need more compensation than they got. I say, shame on the whole lot of you who think you are worth more than the people who took the previous "buyout". I also say, take the existing offer, if one is available to you, or stay where you are. It doesn't really matter.

I will be here for a couple of posts today. After that, I will not be making any posts for quite a while. Maybe a year or so. I agree that you have only given information that is contractually correct. Good luck Level. I like you. I think you are well intentioned.

Level, When and if you get a chance, look at the archives here and read some of TheWizard's posts. You will see why I had issues with him. Anyway, the big difference between you and him is that he gave specific "inside knowlege" to people, mainly concerning plant closings and stuff like that. What we take very serious, he was playing with, and getting people all fired up when he spoke about their plants. Information that some of us would be in trouble with the SEC for devulging. Except, his wasn't true. Once in a while he would get it right and gain some credibility. Who ever said I was a "company fuck"? I didn't. I like to think of myself as a Ford Motor Company Employee. That's all.

K,mon man. You should know better than that. Even secretaries have coffee ordered in these days. Where ya been?

By the way. Where is your hero Level in all of this? Have you heard one single word of compassion out of him? Has he got on a plane from Jefferson Avenue and flew in to comfort your people? That's because he isn't an international rep. He plays with you like many before him have. States half truths, then watches as debates begin. I guess Im just not in the mood for this today!

And everybody thinks I'm the asshole! This is a union brother speaking to other union brothers! I thought you guys were supposed to have compassion for each other. Part of the solidarity thing and all. Where the hell is Pumpmaster who is so concerned for the men and women fighting in Iraq and other places? Isn't he supposed to be compassionate for other people? Where are you when your fellow union brothers are facing a crisis in their lives? Their plant is being closed. They are desperate to grab onto any "rumor" that gives them hope. This is the stuff I don't understand about the union. You guys will back stab each other in every way possible and then claim "solidarity". You have no compassion for your own people and some of you make me sick! I think TheDrunk probably is one! A drunk who deserves nothing! Maybe that's why the company can pretty much do what they want these days. Even when your international leadership negotiates an agreement, they have to make sure it is sugar coated and we have to give a good "sighning bonus" in order to get the damn thing ratified by the membership. Think about it. What I would like to see is a representative from Dearborn go down to Tulsa and hold a plant wide meeting informing those people that they are to remain open for the forseable future. That would be awesome!

So you can say, Embrassez mon âne, in binary. Who gives a sh*t! :reading: