SajeevMehta

Add in the profit margin of $5000-10,000 per unit and there you have it.

The Panther's ending is sad, the D3's beginning is much, much sadder. I can't believe you don't see the difference. And what that means for the company's poor sales and why they are on the verge of bankruptcy. I know you work at a dealership and have to look upbeat on the cars you sell while Ford slips every quarter, but you of all people gotta see the writing on the wall...

If you think Ford doesn't need to learn from its history, we have nothing to discuss. The panther has always been a profitable vehicle that signaled what a big Ford is meant to be. They make thousands on every unit sold. The Tbird/Taurus/SUVs are hot sometimes, then cold. Nothing can touch the Panther in profit, especially their cars. So my history isn't helping, but you still have faith in the D3 for what reasons now??? And I presume you work at a dealership where you have seen the poor sales in person???

Except for those months when sales are bad and they dump them. Ford is getting better, they aren't Chrysler. Ford just dumps S40s and S60s in large amounts.

You're denying the truth. The Panther sold well and made HUGE money. Lee Iaccoca himself admitted that the Lincoln Town Car earned $10,000 a unit back in the 1980s. They sold roughly 100,000 of them in 1985 and netted a BILLION DOLLARS. The money on those cars couldn't be touched by a Tbird or Taurus. Either you don't know how valuable the Panther is, or you really think FWD is gonna save the company. Either way, you are dead wrong about the Panther and the relevance of RWD to Ford.

They sell retail the same way, pre-ordered. Do you really not know how well the Panther sold in the 1980s and 1990s? And this is the part where I "defer" to the FWD and RWD market and how shitty the D3 performs. For someone who loves to mention PRE-ORDERing...exactly how many D3s have gone to fleets since 2005 because they don't sell like the mainstream imports do?

Ummm...the Panther was built in a day, sold like popcorn from the start, for decades after and is only now a fleet queen. I bash the D3s because its been a turd from the beginning and the future doesn't bode well for it. All that money shoulda gone into the Panther/other RWD chassis and Ford would be raking it in...just like the Chrysler 300 did, except they'd keep it the gravy train growing a lot longer. Branding 101: know what makes you relevant in the market. Do you really think the D3 is it?

I think you're missing the point. The Panthers are around for a specific reason, they sell. The D3s are around because they are supposed to be the future of Ford's large car segment but nobody's buying it. Ever since 2005 that chassis has been a turd. You don't have to be a marketing major to see the lesson in branding presented here. Do you really not see the connection?

And that's bad, why? Back in 2005 Ford claimed this audience would buy the D3 and they'd kill it off. It was another half-assed plan, just like today's stopgap Focus and anything related to PAG. Instead, the captive audience remained and continues to sell competitively with the D3 (Grand Marquis, since the CV is mostly fleet) because nobody wants the D3. Forget about the month/years where the Panther outsold it by 2x or 3x more, it was a flat out terrible move when you can't understand that your brand revolves around V8s and RWD.

Chrysler couldn't make a long term success if its life depended on it. (wait, that's really true). Their style from the RWD chassis' hard points stole the show...until people realized its just a Chrysler. The point is that the RWD platform is part of the American brand. Its what separates Detroit from its now entrenched competition. I think the Panthers sell well relative to their R&D expenses, marketing efforts and all that stuff that was bestowed on the D3. They put nothing in, but make thousands on every unit sold. Its absolutely brainless profit, and you know it. If you don't, ask the guy who started this thread, he's done the math on how rich Ford gets from every Panther sold.

The E-class's handling is respectable, you're not gonna convince me otherwise. The Genesis handles nearly as well as an E550, and if it gets a 10th of the sales of the E-class its probably a smashing success. I don't work for a car publication, I have a real job that pays the bills. Speaking of, I better get back to it before I get fired.

Its a little worse than reskinning a Fusion, but the market for another Pony car is there. And if they put IRS in the old Cobra at minimal costs, why not? There's no way, given Ford's awful branding efforts. If Ford knew that cars like the Panther would still sell even with ZERO help, if they knew the 2005 Mustang and Chrysler 300 would do so well for being so American...maybe things would be different. Problem is Ford didn't know what makes a Ford. Maybe they still don't, because all I hear is more large import-wannabes in the future. And all of this goes back to the arguement on the Flex thread.

Have you been reading this thread? I was responding to Nick's "They're doing all they really can right now unless Ford's GRWD becomes a reality" comment by saying they COULD have done better if they didn't buy into the D3. And gave the Infiniti as a reason why it could have happened. They had three other options, love 'em or leave 'em.

Unless you know why the D2C or the Nissan MR platforms are so radically different that they cannot be compared, I don't know why you're mentioning this. Do you really think cars are that complicated? Any platform can be tweaked to accept different body configurations, the B pillar of the D2C Mustang is far easier to replicate in a sedan than the old frameless glass SN-95 Fox version...and they made sedans and wagons on the Fox. Its not a question of if, its a question of why choose the D3 over the D2C.

Keep in mind this is the same Ford told us that the Euro focus was too expensive to sell here, than told us that retooling the old one costs just as much as bringing the Euro one here. We're never gonna know the truth. I have a D2C Mustang, and I'm not buying their argument. The Chicago D3 factory was upgraded to build multiple platforms in one place, and the D2C could have been engineered instead of the D3. If anything its primitive suspension makes it easier and more cost effective than the D3.