Captain723
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Posts posted by Captain723
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Thats not true, all big three can strike over H&S and if your read the language in the GM agreement, it actually does not specifically say that they can't strike! Language is a little unclear, although it does talk around it, does not say they can't! I am sure the company thinks it says that, but it can be looked at with different views!
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You will never convince me that Settles and the Ford dept couldn't have gotten those 250 the first bonus and that they couldn't have gotten us the Rod Meloni bonus plan.
Solid House choose not to. Cap, they choose not to push hard enough. Pattern bargaining. They could have gotten more but choose not to. They held us back as to not piss of GM and Chrysler people
you know this and i know this.
Look I understand how upset you are, hell I would be upset also, but not at the UAW because if they could have gotten it they would have. The rules of eligibility have almost always been the same! Shitty if you are one of those on ILO. You never did tell me what plant you are laid off from??
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ilo or tlo the laid off workers at the Indy.plant,have been given return to work dates to Louisville.so will that make them be on tlo,instead of ilo..Just wondering.
If you are working and have a report date and then get laid off it would be a TLO because you have a return to work date. Unfortunately if you are laid off and then have a job opportunity, you remain on ILO until you go back to work!
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A move within a two hour drive may be possible. However you are going to seriously look at other alternatives. Start discussing these possibilities with you mate. With all of the job postings there were rumors a couple of weeks ahead of time that they were coming. You are not the first nor will you be the last one the have to make these decisions. Transfers have been happining for the last 25 to 30 years. It is unfortunate that people have to make these decisions but to stay employed by Ford you are going to have to make some tough decisions.
Again, start the discussion with you mate on each possible location and what you are willing to do so that when you hve 3 days to make your decision it will be somewhat easier.
That is good advise and back in 2005 all ACH plants were told that they would sell or close. So there has been a lot of opportunities to stay with in zone. Now the options are limited and you will definitely have to make a tough decision if you want to stay with Ford. Good luck and start discussing options with the family!
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people be for real the grievance has already been settle with the agreement, don't you remember bob king saying that he would like to handle the grievance in negotiations and not at Arbitration. So think about it, the Arbitration dates has been setup just to close the case out and we don't get anything cause we already got it in this so call GOOD CONTRACT, as they are saying all over the news, just think about it----- I may be wrong but once we vote on the new contract the grievance is dead--- check out the links
Thats not true douche bag, grievances aren't settle just because we have a new agreement. The UAW wanted the grievance heard prior too negotiations and Jimmy has clearly said that it will not be a part of the 2011 negotiations! It was posted all over the plant! The UAW had to have the arbitrator subpoena the company to get information. That is the reason this thing has dragged out. The company didn't want to give financial info to the arbitrator. the timing of this laid out back in August would have brought this into 2012. Wow, you can't dream this shit up!! Let me make something up and put it on Blue Oval Forum!
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:hysterical::hysterical2:
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So no more merit raises? A rose by any other name is still a rose...
Or should I say, a raise by.... Oh yea and I call BS on your "most" claim. While I could possibly believe "many" I'd have a hard time buying "most"
Merit raises are bonuses...lump sums.... as far as many, no it is most, just ask one!
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Your lucky it's not 1982. Back then a production worker was paid 2/3rds what a trades-person made. That would put you at about $22 an hour.
Whats up pioneer, where did you land??
working my ass off. Have you seen white pages?? Think it is pretty good, but site was down or my guess over loaded. Doesn't sound like we lost anything, but didn't get everthing back. I didn't have expectations we would. Nice to see a little money back in the pockets though.
Do think there will be a big take on $50k or 100K?
I heard in SE michigan there was something in the water that created many miracle and people were coming back to work by the 100's. Nice to see...wonder how long they will be back for?
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Trades people.....it is not longer 1982! If you do not like the contract, then take your trade to another company!!
Hey salaried phuck..how about take your undeserved salried retension bonuses and get lost....there is no company looking for worthless salaried phucks who ran a company in the dirt! crawl back under Alans desk!
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I sure hope not but what happened to "we will not talk about the contract until EOS is settled"?
hey whats up steaming carl....the letters that I read from Settles that was posted in the plant did not say that. Hell the timing that was given will frag that into 2012. I thought he specifically said it would not be tied to the 2011 bargaining!
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If so, won't that drive up Ford's fixed labor cost; isn't that what they are trying to avoid with us?
You would think, but they call it retension bonuses and no it does not count in their fixed labor cost! its not fixed if it is a bonus! Most salaried fks have no health care or sub either! Thery treat them like contractors!
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Cap, your being a little UAW stooge. Its not a steamroller, its standing up and telling Ford they can do better. Its not trying to settle.
You here all this they are trying to settle shit coming from the UAW and then you see they settled.
Instead of waiting and coming back the next night or the one after that, they took the ugly bitch home at 2 am didn't use protection and now we're stuck with paying for their bastard child.
there are things you don't compromise on. Everyone gets paid. If they can't budge on 250 ILO's then we walk.
Could someone please tell captain and the UAW Ford Dept who needs the signing bonus the most, those working or those on ILO?
Not sure where you have been but 40k workers are not going to strike because 250 on ILO didn't get a signing bonus, but lets entertain that thought...40k members walk for 1 month losing around $3800 while ford isn't making cars, so they are losing 1 million every 10 minutes. With that kind of math do you think it would benefit walking out over....my guess is no and even if we did walk, check out history, you would never recoupe the $$ lost. Again, I am not saying this to be shitty, I am sure if the UAW could have gotten it they would have, again they do not benefit from not getting you a signing bonus!! I am just trying to understand why you are pist and the UAW....be pist at the company...I am sure the IUAW will agree with you that you deserve it but they couldn't get it...be pist at the company for not giving it to you, not the UAW because I am certain they tried to get it for you! Again, why do you keep avoiding the question of where did you get ILOed from??
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Weren't many of the new product announcements and investments already promised in the last contract or modifications to the contract?
Would be interested to know which ones??
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According to Bloomberg Businessweek back in May, Ford has been holding on to Billions of dollars for hard times. They apparently have this year to show it as a profit or risk being taxed on it. It is called a valuation allowance and experts expect Ford to show anywhere from $10-13B of it as profit. Has Ford been hiding this money from us? Will we get screwed out of it?
If it is based on North American profits, then hell yeah it will be counted, my guess they are talking about some sort of interest!
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You mean Hardwick II right?
Yeah, the Ford appeal to the original case settled and agreed to by a lower court judge subsequently overturned.
All you had to do was mention it. I forgot that the union doesn't like its rank and file to know about that.
What dooes that have anything to do with anything???? The UAW didn't over turn it and why would the UAW care if you know or knew about a case overturned by a judge....did the UAW play a role in that...WOW I love this site. What the phuck does that have to do with this arbitration case?? Brilliant!
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Ford contract would make concessions permanent!
The tentative Ford contract means this: Ford will give us a signing bonus of $6,000 (before taxes), plus four $1,500 bonuses (before taxes) and promises of profit-sharing. But we lose all the concessions we gave up. Everything that we want back, Ford said NO! NO! NO!
NO raises, NO COLA, NO performance bonuses, NO Christmas bonuses, NO Easter Monday holiday, NO return of lost break time. NO overtime after 8 hours. (Letter on back-up time doesn’t change this.)
First tier autoworkers lost up to $30,000 in concessions over the last few years. Now Ford wants to continue these concessions for another 4 years. At what cost to us? Lose another $30,000? All for $12,000 in bonuses? No raises for 4 more years, after we have already waited 6 years?
They give us 2011 profit-sharing this November – by taking it away from next March’s money – hoping we will jump at the money now and forget about what happens later.
The biggest concession is that 2-tier will continue.
This contract does not bring up the 2nd-tier workers up to first tier. This contract keeps them permanent 2nd-tier, with no path to move up to first tier wages and benefits. The pay increase, spread over 4 years, barely makes up for what 2nd-tier workers lost in the 2009 concessions. The supposed 20% limit on 2nd-tier workers is filled with loopholes. The percentage of 2nd-tier workers will increase, meaning the threat of everyone being eventually reduced to 2nd-tier will increase.
The profit-sharing formula is supposed to be improved, by including North American operations instead of just the U.S. But what is to keep Ford from shifting profits around to hide them? Do you trust Ford? There is also a cap on profit-sharing when there didn't used to be one. And there is no guarantee of getting profit-sharing every year.
This contract makes us pay for what Ford did not put into the VEBA. The VEBA is underfunded because Ford only put in 57% of what was needed for retiree health care. Retirees are paying more out of pocket. Instead of making Ford pay for their obligations, this contract would take 10% of any profit-sharing we might get to put into the VEBA.
New retirees will take another hit because for the first contract ever, there is no increase in the 30-and-out pension. Current retirees’ Christmas bonus is taken away from them.
There are promises of new jobs. But remember the 2007 contract where Ford promised to save 10,000 jobs – instead we lost 17,300 jobs. If you look closely at the promises of jobs, it is mostly work that Ford was going to do anyway.
When the past concessions were taken away from us, they wanted us to believe that when the companies were reporting a profit again, we would get back what we gave up. It was all a lie.
They want us to accept that these concessions will be permanent. But we don’t have to stand by and watch our families’ standard of living be permanently reduced, while our bosses are the only ones who prosper from our hard work.
The Ford contract does have more upfront money than the GM contract. But let’s remember why it is more – because we voted “No” in 2009. It ‘s a good lesson to remember this time.
I’m voting “NO” and I ask you to vote “NO”!
I love this site, but I love educated members better. So let me help educate you young man....
1st we didn't get concessions back yet from 2009, but that doesn't mean because of that this agreement is a concession, just means we didn't get it back. Rome wasn't built in a day.
2nd Cola, I thought that there was some form of Cola in this agreement with inflation protection....what I get out of that....is a bonus of $1500 every year...not sure on exact language yet, but I bet I am pretty close, but just be aware there are not many companys that give any form of cola!!
3rd Profit sharing early, yes we are geting the first 2 quarters as I understand it early..what does this mean?? If the company losing money if the remaining questers we get it up front, so the loss doesn't effect what we get in advance of the normal payout period. With the European an other markets tanking we may be looking at another economic down fall and if this happens the entire year would get calcualted on an average basis.....so that is a good thing...we didn't give anything up, just getting it early to protect against something happening.
4th 2nd tier, again as I have shared in the past these jobs were supposed to be outsourced, and IUAW negotiated with the company a 2nd tier to keep them in-house, otherwise, there would be no 2nd tier they would just be outside contractors paying $9-$12 per hour.
5th As far as Ford hiding money, they simplified the formula looks like to say whatever their earnings tha they report out (publically traded and illegal to alter) finacial earnings. If Ford makes 3 billion the average profit sharing is $3k...pretty simply and again it is their annual earnings based on all of Norht America.
6th Retiree Health Care and Pension. We currently have about 5 retirees to every worker. Because of the $ which provided retirees a Bonus (Christmas) was originally to help pay for increases in health care palnd. This money was taken out of the pension fund, because the pension fund is currently underfunded it would wrong to take money that is no there or which would add to the shortfall. Becasue there are about 5 retirees to every worker this would cost an average of $3750 per worker in order to give because it can not be taken out of the pension fund anymore. Not to mention that the court ruling says that the UAW can not bargain for retiree benefits/Pensions anymore. They can talk about it, but that is all. If the company chooses not to want to talk about there is nothing the UAW can do!
7th the Veba, grab a paper and read, our republican held government is attacking the workers of America and their rights to bargain. the UAW secured money for retiree health care that would maintain their service. If it were up to the company they would have reduced or cut off health care and forced them to fend for themselves.
My mom and dad thank you UAW for you have given them and what you continue to get for them from the company!
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Get the fucking rule changed in negotiations then bitches. that is their fucking job, or is it just fucking us that's their job.
LOL....love this site....people think that negotiations are a like someone getting steam rolled...not that way brother/Sister. I suggest that if you are off of work maybe you can take some classes at your Region on Arbitration and Negotiations to educate yourself on the process. Unfortunately the company doesn't roll over to every demand of the IUAW. Again if it were up to the IUAW they would give it to everyone. What do they have to gain for not getting you a bonus?? WOW! Where are you ILOed from? as production or skilled??
PS if anyone has the chance to take a workers compensation class...great....a friend of mine, who was a committeeman at the time, asked me if I wanted to take a class over the weekend with him. So I did....great class and you learn a lot!
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Hey, its the Solid house mole.
So your telling us that you know and can show the langauge that backs you up, or you just spreading the sullied house lies again.
Dude, the UAW lawyers are taking it to arbitration, there will be no settlement outside of arbitration....think about it...there is a settlement and the company pays out and then someone appeals it...not going to happen....going to arbitration...hope we win, but if we lose the ramnifications are much worse than losing, it will mean the language we have isn't worth beans and the company can do whatever they want with their salaries....Hell if the Government can't stop corporate greed, do you think an arbitrator can??
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I’m a firm believer in the UAW and what it stands for!! I’m also a firm believer that the contract the UAW has agreed on is a joke. Job security is based on the market and the economy. The job security commitment is just that. The 5,700 plus new jobs are mainly to retain UAW jobs. 1st example –when Minnesota closes and other plants close (stamping, engine, .etc. that is not in the brief outline that you will get) these people can only transfer if there is an opening at another facility. Will there be any because of the 2-tier wage workers hired which will start to happen left and right. Also those who have been at Ford longer than five years know that if the UAW and Ford say they created thousands of jobs, this is hardly true. I’ve been at Ford for 19yrs and have heard this same song and dance. Ford and the UAW promise us tens of thousands of jobs and Ford always used there many loopholes not to hire or create jobs. Then we here so many excuses from UAW why the job commitments didn’t happen. Are you going to fall for this again? Job security hmmm we all know it takes Ford at least 3yrs to make a product or a decision where its going to be built. So ask yourself why and how they can make a decision on job security within months after the contract would be voted yes on. Is it because they already made their decision prior to the contract talks? For the most part why is there only 6.3 billion out of 16.3 billion going to be invested in the U.S. ford is not going to honor the job commitments like in the past. Like in the past, the UAW is going to do nothing about it! To the idiots that will respond I’m voting yes because I want to help the company and thank god that you have a job, here is what I have too say; ford hardly honors the contract between Ford and the UAW. Fact there are tens of thousands of grievances against Ford not even including the master grievance…grievances mean Ford has violated the contract. To the idiots who are crying about jobs do you really believe Ford will honor the contract.
The bonuses are a smack in the face!!!! We the union gave up over $30,000+ in concessions to help the company. The UAW convinced us to do so!! The company decisions got Ford in trouble and we had to pay for it. The Ford and UAW said it saved the company $500 to $600 million a year. Hmmm the bonuses that the glass house and the stupidvisors got were around $500 to $600 million. We deserve more money, if Alan Mulally got over $98 million in bonuses and stock options we should get some of our concessions back. A $6,ooo signing bonus is a disgrace
The ironic thing is the new jobs that were created,(lol)- take the number that they say and cut it down more than half after the jobs have been retained!! The 2-tier workers before they got a job at Ford said that we were a bunch of whiners and they would work for 12 to 14 dollars an hour and be thankful-then they cried. I only make half of your wages and do the same job and now we vote on giving them a raise!!!! When the retirees are replaced by new hires, the same hypocrites that said we were overpaid and lazy are going to apply at Ford. We are going to vote yes for them and now we are going to vote yes and get nothing for ourselves. Way to go UAW. I’m a firm believer that the UAW is like the government they don’t listen to the people.
I love this site, but it is hard to tell who is or is not a UAw member. I would like to think that UAW workers are much smarter than this. What is more upsetting is that I am wrong a I could work next to some dumb ass like you! SCARY! :sandbox:
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Here is a good opportunity to show "our union" and the company that we're not going to allow another grievance to be swept under the rug. The contract should never had went foward until this grievance was settled upon first! It will either be forgotten or we will be offered squat-after we ratify this agreement. There will be no motivation for the company to settle it with a "fair" conclusion if we dont hold them to it PRIOR to the agreement of the contract....typical union performance.
Because of people like you, this grievance will go to an arbitrator and crash and burn. You and those of you who think that they have a sense of entitlement will be the demise of this grievance because you think that you deserve a new car and your house paid for out of the grievance. It will not be settle prior to a settlement with an arbitrator because of you! If it were settled prior to arbitration it could be appealed, so instead of getting something, you force the hands that try and feed you...and the hand will be forced to drop the food on the floor and the dog with eat it and you will get none! Thank you Mr. Arbitrator! Brilliant! We are soo smart....much smarter than a fifth grader! Maybe you should try and get on that show to get your extra cash....you will probably have a better chance at that then thinking you can tell the company how much they pay or give their salaried employees!
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Didn't we vote down the mechanical work teams in the last modification attempt? Why are they in here now? I like how it says efficiencies will not result in the direct and IMMEDIATE layoff of mechanical trades. Notice it doesn't say that layoffs won't happen later down the road because of them.
"When mechanical work teams are launched, team members will receive the negotiated wage rate (nonpersonalized) of the highest classification on the team. Skilled trades efficiencies achieved as a direct result of the implementation of mechanical work teams will not result in the direct and immediate layoff of mechanical trades."
Work teams were actually negotiated in 2007 and they were based off of the European model, unfortunately they have not implemented this in too many locations, but usually it creates jobs with more flexability for keep project work. what was left out of the 2007 work teams was the European model, which gives training $$, wage increases and no lay-offs. This will be implemented in the 2011 agreement to protect our trades and packages to hopefuly put them back on their trades or get $50k to stay in production and conitue to make $27-28 per hour....really, I am sure those looking in think that this is crazy awsome and if you don't think that we won't have people lined up to take this option, you are nuts! It will be interesting to see the numbers!
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that's f###king bullshit ford said today that they have 250 people on ILO and the IUAW couldn't get the people that are on ILO the signing bonus how do they sleep at night?
Why would that be the IUAW's fault, this has always been rule. I am sure if it were up to the IUAW everyone would get signing bonus, raises, car vouchers and cola. Are you seriously blaming the UAW?? DO you think that the company gives 2 fks about any of us, especially those on ILO?? WOW! Where are you ILOed from?
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And true brotherhood would not vote yes, because a brother's plant is closing. This is where solidarity means more than lip service.
As long as the work stays within Ford Motor Company why would there not be solidarity in that?? It is not going to the outside and with shipping cost make perfect sense. Sorry for those working at Walton Hills or any Location. At least the work isn't leaving and Ford jobs will still remain. That should be the real issue, do we have jobs in other places to employee this decision by Ford. Keep our brothers and sisters working is really key! Hang in there guys at Walton Hills and TCAP. You will have to make some tough decisions soon, don't wait till the last minute. I know a lot of people who have and now they are giving up their home or paying dual house notes.. Bad situation and sorry to hear, but we should be thankful there are 5000 real jobs tied to this agreement and open product commitments. With the reduction of product lines and integration of facilities because of the market changing and economic uncertainty this is a good agreement.
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Since this is a personal vote, it has personal aspects to the choice...
I'm at Rawsonville. There are no NEW product committments coming to us. What they mention has already been in motion. Nothing new and what is in motion isn't much for jobs.
Secondly, it would be our "fixed" profit share. The company does not want "fixed" costs on us, like raises and cola, but it's ok to say that too much profit and they cannot "share" with us.
:reading: Where do you read that there is fixed profit sharing??? We are not capped for profit sharing!
The product you are getting should actually go into a plant like Sharonville, not Rawsonville. So maybe nothing new, but it really doesn't make sense to make it in Rawsonville anyway!!
A $7,500 Bonus Wouldn't Be Enough, Ford Workers Say
in Ford Employee Forum
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