slapshot2
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Posts posted by slapshot2
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Furious I completely agree that public perception of the UAW and it's workforce along with the products we produce, are very negative. That alone, regardless of where we stand compared to another automaker in terms of vehicle versus vehicle, is a driving thought in the buying process for a great deal of people.
Your story is a perfect example of it, and a frequently occurring one to boot. If I stood back and read just what some people print here and nothing more, it would be easily enough to turn me away if I were a neutral buyer, not employed by a domestic. The guy you spoke of though, in no way shape or form, has a clue that the old school days are gone.
True, Ford has to design it and start the build process...but WE must put it together. Too long has there been ZERO accountibility among our workforce. There needs to be some. When your job is on the line, there is no longer the thought of doing some of the things we all see in our plants. I'm not going to spell them out.
What will happen if bankruptcy happens at Ford? Does anyone want to find out? I sure as hell don't. Step it up boys and girls or we may find ourselves knee deep in it.
Personally, I think the COA at OHAP was a great mixture of some of what Ford needed, and keeping many of the current things we have now in place. I didn't feel it was very drastic at all and 82% felt the same.
Very good post!
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50% of the problems this company is facing are a reaction by the public towards are pay and benefits. This public perception is a resault of autoworkers telling the public how much they make and, how little they do. They think that we are overpaid and lazy. We could blow it off but, they're the same public that decide wheather or not we work! When I first got to OHAP I stopped at a local tavern for lunch and one of us where felling good. He was being obnoxious telling the server "I can get you A-plan" . After collecting her tip and he walked out she said that's why I drive a Toyota. People like that are costing us. It is simply better if we keep our internal business out of the news. While there may be no obligation not to speak to the press, there are consiquences for every action and statement! Ask Don Imus! Although he had a legal right to say what he said, the consumers and sponsors also have a right to react. The other 50% is mismanagement and, arrogants throughout the company!
My guess would be that her comments had little to do with the money he made or the fact that we was arrogant, and a lot to do with the fact that he was in a bar trashed on his lunch break, which he really has no right to do. Jealousy is prevalant all over the world. People simply do not like it when others seem to have it better than they. But in the end, that matters little when it comes to the buying decisions they make. It's things like patronizing local bars and carryout stores where the judgemet comes in. Don't you think they wonder when they see employees come and buy tall boys and lottery tickets what kind of product we produce? Most people with a lick of common sense realize that all auto manufacturing jobs pay pretty well, the foreign included. It's the perception we give ourselves in public that begins this problem. I'd be willing to bet that going to eat lunch at a bar is a terminatable offense at Toyota, although you're going to tell me that it's your right and you can do what you want on your lunch break, blah, blah, blah. Bottomline, I think we share an obligation to ourselves and our employer to not embarass the company with our actions outside of the plant, yet many, like your buddy, do so on a regular basis. Bankruptcy threatening? No, but it certainly doesn't help the cause!
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I wasn't to clear what you were talking about when you wrote about the'appeal'.Having checked it out {actually got to read it]sorry but I disagree with your conclusion.Basically his appeal was against the International combining the two units for purposes of the election.[two O.H.A.P.UNITS]The appeal board said that when the membership voted to have seperate elections that the International had NO right under the constitution to combine the units.So in my book this makes him RIGHT!iT SEEMS TO ME THAT IF ANY BODY WHO WAS IN OFFICE AT THE TIME HAD CHALLANGED THE iNTERNATIONAL THAT THEY WOULD HAVE HAD TO RUN THE ELECTION THE WAY THE MEMBERSHIP WANTED IT RUN.This is just my opinion.Honestly it is to complicated to understand all the arguements for and against this issue.However Isure anyone intrested can do what I did and check it out.You may come to a different conclusion.Whatever it is water under the bridge.
No matter what the situation, when the underlying decision is not reversed, the appeal has failed, regardless of what kind of coulda, woulda, shoulda spin you try to put on it. Please re-read my conlusion and show me one way in which it is faulted. The plant I work in, has one production unit, building one product. If there is something I am missing here, I would love to know what it is. Do tell.
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Who cares who is doing what for the membership as long as it helps the people? So people found out in the paper. This only means that nightshift had the information at the same time as dayshift. If the Donovans can help people, great. That's good of them to do. If Nick can help people, great. Who cares who is doing it as long as it gets done! God, grow up already! I've said it before that I don't know all the politics here but Bucktoothgeek you are really losing me on this! I'm guessing that no matter what they do its wrong as far as you're concerned. Some people on here think you're Fred and I really don't care if you because I don't know you all that well either but if you what is your problem with these people if they're helping? I just don't get it! Can anyone else clue some of us in? Slapshot2, you seem to be pretty reasonable. Do you know what's going on? Otherwise I'm just going to put that Bucktoothgeek guy on ignore.
Nice post. You seem to understand that it really doesn't matter who is getting the job done, as long as it gets done. And as long as it is getting done, credit is due those that are doing the getting done! Sounds kind of confusing huh? In reallity Princess, it is shameful that people want to play this political game with your best interests at stake isn't it? The way I see it, if a pitchers throwing strikes, you keep him in the game, and by virtue of the fact that we are still in this game when many others in the industry had counted us out, I'd say we owe some loyalty to those that have been making the calls up to this point, wouldn't you? Being pissed about the timeliness of an information exchange really seems kind of trivial in the grand scheme of things, doesn't it? If that's the worst we get from this Chairman, I'd say we're doing pretty good. If that's the kind of stuff that certain people are mostly concerned with, than they should have elected Mary when she ran for District. There is not a better person in the building for making sure that information gets to where it needs to go than her. Wonder where all of these information starved individuals were when it was time to show her support for her efforts? The point here is this; No matter what you do for a certain element, they are always going to be unhappy. All we can do I suppose, is hope that in the end, common sense prevails. Good luck to you!
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I believe that the state of Ohio can maybe explain as to how good Ford's guarantee's are!I am sure that Donovan{Jerry]said At the union meeting that there would be a NEW body shop.This refurb is just to hold us to a new shop is built,starting in 2010.In the past all that he told us came to pass.At the ratification meeting he said that a number of the plants were NOT implementing their C.O.A. agreements at this time.Regarding informing the press,most of the information was given by his son Michael who was one of the negotiators.By the time our local union informs the membership about things it is ancient history.As for our C.O.A when I asked Donovan{Jerry] as to his opinion about it,he said that we should support it as it would send the message that we were willing to work with Ford on their problems.He did however say,and I am sure that he would tell you himself, that it is not a good agreement for the union or the company and that the real issues would have to be addressed in September.
The state ahs absolutely ZERO to do with what is transpiring at our facility RIGHT NOW. Is that really all that hard to comprehend? What you are doing, is what is commonly referred to as "crying over spilled milk." This he said she said shit is helping no one. No offense, but do you not have the ability to think for yourself? Every post you write is filled with "Jerry said this" and "Jerry said that." Dude, find out the information for yourself, and make real decisions. Now is not the time to be a puppet or mouthpiece for someone else, it is a time to be an informed individual that holds the capability to make an INFORMED and EDUCATED decision about what the rules of the game are and what his role within it is. Your future is at stake, and all you are trying to do is justify for people whether or not Jerry Donovan was correct in things he said IN THE PAST!!! Is it really that hard to see that yesterday matters not one little bit in this industry? Get over it, become an individual, and worry about your own best interests for once. You'll be glad you did down the road!
As for the agreement not being good for Ford, I am sure that many within the company ranks would beg to differ with this. In todays business climate, anytime the company, or any company for that matter, can cut cost in any way shape or form they salivate. They love it. What, do you think they might feel bad and offer back some of the few takeaways come September, being as though it is no good for them? Get real. They're gonna ask for more is what they're gonna do, and your bargaining unit is going to spend a great deal of time trying to minimize the suffering for you, me, and everyone else and our families, all this while your polishing the workboots of the former Chairman. Makes sense doesn't it? Make no mistake about it. I have no "buddies" within this unit, but I do believe in loyalty and standing together for the common good of all of us, and to do that, you need to support what you have, not what you wish you had. In doing this you gain something called integrity, which is never a bad thing to have. Try it, you just might like it!
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I think you got something there. Freddie is pissed off they didn't talk to him but he would've had to be around and anyone who has him as a rep knows its almost impossible to find him. Ole Bucktoof is pulling the same old same old. Do as I say or else. I talked to Jerry about the appeal (man, you gotta get something else to bitch about, it's getting old) and its funny how the court upheld everything but the PRB didn't. Like there not on the take? HAHAHAHAHA! Yeah, tell us another one! Look at who is paying them! If Mike didn't tell us what happened who would've? How long would it've taken to tell us? I'd still like to know how many actually did vote. I think your right about the sour grapes. There gonna be really sour come next spring, huh?!
His response about this 'appeal' was in response to another's claim that a certain individual was never wrong, which in this case, he was, regardless of the reason. Bottom line, the product still left, and the unit was disolved. Period.
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I will not bad mouth Nick because he is the sitting chiarman and, If he said it is time to sit outside I'm ready to go. We'll just have to see what the company puposes. I will say that you should not be so arrogant to think that Nicks savey and negotiating skills, or the companies love fo local 2000 is why we where able to negotiate a better COA. At this point OHAP is the only plant that builds the Econoline. The plants that took deeper consessions house products that are built at multiple facilities. If one where to strike or vote down the COA Ford could have shut them down and diverted the work to other plants. As for A work guarantee, the same district committee negotiated that the Escape would be produced at OHAP till 2008. Where is it now? Ford's guarantees mean nothing!
A little far fetched, don't you think? I'll give you credit, there is some validity to your thought process, but the reality is, the vehicles that are produced at multiple plants were being done so because of enormous demand that one plant could not keep up with alone. So to make a claim that this is why certain COA's were inferior to others, is somehting that can not be substantiated, as they could never have met the demand at a single facility. Does it help that we are excluisive to our product? Sure, but you certainly can't take credit away from the final result for this. Bottom line, we got a better agreement than others. It matters not what the reason for it is.
As for the agreement with the Escape, that is not true, Ford guaranteed work for this facility for this duration, it was not product specific. If I am not mistaken, it was very much tied into an "agreement" with the state which is by no means as binding as a signed, legal, contract, which is what was radified a few weeks back. This comparison simply can not be made, as there are actually no similarities in the underlying verbage. Say what you want, but the folks that were representing the interests of the employees in the Escape unit (their bargaining unit) failed them in not securing a more solid agreement for the future of this product, but that certainly should not take away from the fact that your current bargaining unit got the job done this time. People can say what they want about the skills of Nick, but at the end of the day, this security that has been recently provided, was granted on his watch and you certainly can't credit others that are not in office for this accomplishment. As Chairman, he is our leader at the present time, and if anything, he deserves the thanks of this membership for the fact that none of our families have to worry about their immediate future as many others throughout this industry do. Anyone that can not bring themselves to recognize that, is ignorant beyond reason, and has interests far different than what is best for our future!
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As few of us have seen the C.O.A.'s from other plants I don't know how we can say how good or how bad they are in contrast to each other. Regarding the politics I agree that it is way to early to be campaigning for office. I am sure that there will be plenty of candidates who will run for the different offices when the time comes.That someone is already campaigning for chairman indicates to me that asizable group of members must be unhappy with the way things are being run.As for keeping the plant open,didn't a previous chairman report that a new bodyshop was in the works.This was before the c.o.a.was settled.Ford makes decisions based upon many factors,not just one small agreement.Haven't we read that some plants that agreed to C.O.A.'s are being closed or downsized.
Yes, but if Ford wants to contiue to build Econoline vans thru the year 2011, they are leally obligated to do so at OHAP. Period. There were a few copies of other coa agreements around the plant. Anyone taking the time to look for one could have obtained one. And yes, what I saw was much worse. Hi-Lo eliminated, many trades eliminated and combined, etc. I would say we are lucky to have escaped some of these results. How can you say someone starting to campaign this early is doing so purely because of unhappiness with the current structure? Ever think about the possibility that a person with the integrity to try and secure your future vote by feeding you lunch may be doing so because he wants the high paying job? I'd say there's a good chance that's what's going on here. If you have credibility and qualifications that can be substantiated, you certainly don't need to sway people with your weenie! Besides, I'd hardly consider 1 guy having a daily or weekly roast on an assembly line as representing a sizable group, would you? Lastly, who told anyone they were getting a new bodyshop? I wish someone would tell the bodyshop this. Refurbishing some tooling and adding a bit of automation hardly qualifies as a new shop, but it is a step in the right direction. It certainly doesn't take the abilities of Nostradamus to deduct that for it to remain feasible to construct truck bodies into the future, work was going to have to be done to failing equipment, don't you think? It is wrong to make all of these futile attempts to discredit someone that is actually doing a pretty good job, regardless of your feelings for somebody else. People need to realize once and for all, there is no other side anymore, we need to move on, together, like it or not!
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There are a lot of us here that came over from Lorain and we really don't know too much about your politics and who was who way back when. It would help if some names were used. We can certainly tell you about our guys that came over. Robert was okay as a safety guy I guess but then I never really had to deal with him one on one. I've heard some really bad stuff from the people over in his area now that he's the group leader but I don't know first hand. Jack retired so he's out of the picture. Tim is still here but I haven't heard what he's going to do. I see Mr. Donovan out on the floor. He's really nice and I love talking to him. I don't know Nick G. I've seen him a couple of times but never talked to him and it's been a long time since I've seen him anyways. I don't know who else is running. But we'll find out a couple of months before the election because that's when you'll see EVERYBODY! Someone on here said about the committeeman who only does his job 3 months before the election because he says that's all the people ever remember. He must be right because that seems to be what they all do. Mr. Slapshot2 I like reading what you write but I wish you were clearer about who you're talking about. I'm trying not to do the them and us thing anymore and just go with we but it's hard when you don't know who everyone is!
I apologize, i think I sometimes forget that when I write (that some of you are "newer" to the building). I think the point is, regardless of names, that it is a bad time for us to show instability within the union ranks as it pertains to the Chairmans position. There is nothing to be gained and he (Nick) obviously has a decent relationship with the company on the local level. Regardless of who does what officially, it is the guy at the top that is ultimately held accountable for the end result, much as in National government politics. Mind you, I am not a personal friend of Nick's, in fact I know him only in passing, but to this point, he has gotten us some security and I don't feel it to be the right move to mess with that in today's business climate, especially to a guy that hangs his hat on his ability to handle health and safety grievances and make hot dogs in the trim shop. Don't get me wrong, his (Gonzalez's) former role is a very important one, but it hardly qualifies him to handle the negotiations that will shape the working futures of 2,000 people. Do I think there are others that have the general abilty to be a great leader from the Chairmans corner? Yes, but can the rest of us truly afford to make a gamble like that with what little bit of security we have while a newcomer "learns the ropes"? I think that is a no brainer. We need to demand performance out of our floor level representatives, or replace them. Pure and simple. As for the President and Chairman, they need to remain where they are so as to show the company that we support our leaders and their ability to bargain and will rise and fall beside them. A change at the top will, in my opinion, put us right back to square one and possibly right back on the radar for immediate closure while they sought further concessions at the plant level. How much more can we afford to give? Been there done that. it's time to just focus on building trucks for a while, good ones at that!
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When are we going to start going by the new c.o.a.?Seems like the politics are starting already.A guy who came from our plant{lorain]has put out shirts saying that he is running for chairman.I don't think that we should be starting so soon.I talked to some other workers and they actually think that it's a joke.This guy was a safety man in lorain.Like everything else some liked him some didn't.Personally I don't think that he has a strong enough background to run for chairman.Some think that he is trying to cut a deal for himself to get some type of appointed job.
It would be foolish of this membership to change it's Chairman come election time. We need the stability and all agreements that have been entered into have been on Nick's watch. There is no need to change the direction of the way things are going now. At this point, we have a better COA than most, and we have at the very least an agreement to keep producing the Econoline exclusively in this building. The folks on the other side, many might recall, made the decision that they thought they could do better and voted out the man whom had secured their vehicles for them in the first place, and we all know what happened in the end there. We need to remain consistent, continue to watchdog the bargaining folks that we have now and demand that they do their jobs, and foster the relationships that we have locally with the company right now to better our product and further secure our future. I heard about this Gonzalez guy, heard he cooks hot dogs and crap in the trim shop all the time trying to secure votes. Ridiculous. Bottom line, we have not the time in this facility for some guy to try his hand at a posiiton for which he is not qualified and subject ourselves to the potential risks that come along with his inexperience. Like it or not, this Chairman has kept our plant open and has obtained a reasonable expectation for stability for the next few years for the workers and their families. To throw that away for the sake of a t-shirt and a weenie would be stupid, to say the least!
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COA passed by about 82%.
Any idea how many actually took the time to come out and vote Mary? I'd bet less than 50%.
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J. Hinrich's letterI'll post the rest of the agreement later. Am going through it line by line.
Questions from J. Hinrich's letter:
"It is expected that the local parties will continue working together to develop and implement a time bound plan to meet the changing and challenging business environment". Does this mean then that this is a living agreement? We already had a "time bound" plan commonly known as our local agreement. If this is a living agreement, will subsequent changes that the parties would deem necessary to "compete" globally and achieve BIC and other benchmarks require membership ratification? Or by agreeing to this agreement do we give carte blanche to the Bargaining Structure? Is this an addendum to our local agreement or does it replace and therefore supercede our current local agreement? Given that we have a specific niche market and are currently BIC in our segment, haven't we already met global and corporate goals?
Guaranteeing a specific model will be built at a specific location means nothing in our current "competitive, global" environment. Take a look at the Taurus. It would appear that it is a small thing for Ford to rename a product. This van could be taken down, the plant put into "warm idle", whatever, renamed and moved. That portion of the letter really doesn't guarantee anything because the way the wording is on this letter, if one of the parties (ummm, FORD) decided that we were not becoming a competitive manufacturing facility or that we had not implemented significant enough changes in our work practices and plant cost structure, could they void this? I mean, c'mon, it's not like we've got a really strong bond of trust here. Maybe I'm worrying over nothing. Surely the company wouldn't lie to us, would they? What exactly is their definition of time bound?
I'll post the rest of the agreement later on. I scanned it in PDF and should have scanned as JPEG. I do apologize. Will have it up and we can all go through it together.
Come on Mary, give them a break. Given the circumstances, this is a pretty good agreement, We actually lost very little, and some will only take place through attrition. That is better than what was expected by most I talked to, and compared to a previous agreement I read (I believe Kentucky Truck's), this is pretty minimal. Can't we give credit where it's due for once? You're throwing a bunch of "what if's" into the mix and that is unfair, as nobody can negotiate under the criteria your expecting if you want everything to be guaranteed not to change. We've all heard that warm idle, change the name, move the product scenario before, and quite frankly, it's nonsense. Ford has 30 + years of successful branding invested in the Econoline and they are not going to abandon that as part of a cat and mouse game with our local union. To get a commitment to exclusively build this product for a few more years is about all that can be expected. The only way this product is going to move is if the plant closes, and in that event, it will still be called the same thing. As for the exclusivity of this product at this plant, that agreement will be binding, so something of significance has been gained. Should they close this plant before such a time, they would not be able to build it elsewhere under the same name during this time frame, and we've already talked about why a name change will not take place. We are not talking about a Villager here, this is a 200,000 unit per year vehicle that must be had. This portion of the agreement is good, no matter how you spin it.
As for being best in cost, last I knew that was not true. We are best in quality, but GM was beating us soundly in the cost metrics of the full size van market, so there will need to be continued change to secure our future past this agreements date. It's not an option. I know your very unhappy with the performance of the bargaining structure overall, but I think you're reaching on this one. We got off much easier than we could have. Remember, the goal is to keep families fed!
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Don't play there game Mary, you know everyone is just jealous because your father knows alot about Fords doings and he's a good man. People tend to dislike honest people it's just human nature.
I was hired at Avon and like everyone else (I DO MEAN EVERYONE) I had help getting hired and your father helped me get the call. Everyone on this site ( at least 905 anyway)had a family member or friend get them an interview, you can lie if you want to and say it's not true but it is.
That's how life works just look who is the President today, without his dad would he be president today??????
So stop picking on the Donavons because noone is any different.
Oh great. Another guy that thinks that Fords top brass calls and gives certain hourly guys in the plants the early scoop on their plans. Don't be so gullable. In fact, let me help you. When people come up to you in the plant and profess that they have inside knowledge of what the crystal ball is showing for our future, they are spreading what is commonly referred to as rumors. How the hell did you come up with this whole jealous about fords doins crap?
Also,I think they're referring to a job she was appointed to after she was hired in, not the process of getting into Ford initially. I am sure Mary got into Ford on her own merits and abilities though. I know I did!
As for the appointed job, nobody should really care about that. There are always people that will feel they
are more deserving of every job that's better than theirs than the person that has it. When it comes to appointments, often times they're right, but there is nothing they can do about it. Mary is very passionate about this membership and is always anxious to serve it. A clear qualification for any appointment, seniority having nothing to do with it. I would appoint one of my kids too, and so would everyone else if given the chance. If they had none, they'd appoint a friend. It's a perk of the chairmans job. Those that disagree should run for Chairman, and vow to change it. As for Mary, she takes a lot of heat, but deserves none for that one.
As for the President, well, you should probably know, one President does not get to "pick" or "appoint" the next. That is done through a little process called an election. Ask your kids, they'll explain.
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Whats sad is reading some of these posts. I am not a Soldier of Solidarity. I believe in working together BUT not rolling over. Thats what our Int'l has done and no one plant can stand alone w/o them. Thats the reality like it or not.
This makes absolutely no sense. Care to elaborate? Who rolled over and how?
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Yes we do, without a doubt. It's not about the van competing against vans. It's the corporation as a whole. You think Japan is going to yield any one market to Ford/GM? No way, they will tap whatever market is there, just give 'em time. They're trying like hell to break into the truck segment now. Full size vans? If it's a money maker, Toyota will eventually give it a try.
The Japanese way makes money, and alot of it. I have no fear of doing things differently. Americans build automobiles the "Japanese way" everyday. There's nothing to fear about making some changes. I'm sorry too...I've seen plenty of the ways you and your fellow 40andouts have "worried" about me and my future, I'm fine making decisions that affect me.
Abuse of the "gravy" has got them targeted for elimination. It's wasteful to pay an individual a full day for merely a portion of the day spent working. That applies to any business. If you owned a shop you damn sure wouldn't want to pay a guy while he's at home when he should be making you money. Would you?
Shadowcat, I completely agree with your last post. We do need to lose the deadbeats and bring in some people that want to work.
Excellent post!
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And, if we go back and read the header for this topic, we still don't have any information on this COA! Yet OUR union wants us to vote on it on Sunday. Isn't Democracy wonderful?!
Not true Mary, there will be no vote on this Sunday. We were told tonight that we will have the info. bulletin tomorrow but the vote would not take place this Sunday.
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I just can't sit back and read this crap without reacting any longer. Shadowcat read what you just posted. If this is the case then why in todays world do we even need the UAW?
You folks say we need to compete. This is Ford running this compete stuff on ya. Who does OHAP need to compete with. The answer no one. Ford is not going to spend perhaps billions of dollars that they do not have to move the Econoline. Wall Street would have em for lunch. Ford Motor Comapny is hell bent on doing it the Japanese way. Plain and simple. Here lays the truth and therefore the so called compete. Ford just needs to look at their management levels as that is the real problem. Ford has 3 managers for the everyone of the Japanese. Its called american corperate greed.
Go ahead vote in your COA you all are right about one thing it will pass away. In 10 years when your all still working the line tired, muscles stiff, missing one or two days a weak of work because of health problems. Then mybe you will release that you made a mistake by giving up the gravy jobs to the COA.
You all are fools for voting for any give backs before a national contract.
One more thing Fred Penna sucks. He is a nice guy to your face but the worst B.C. that I had and I have had some bad ones. I can't wait until local elections.
Hogwash. If we make our decisions based on this logic, we're all screwed! Tell me what Wall Street could possible do to penalize this company at this point? Nothing is the answer. I respect your convictions, but it would be assenine to play a game of "I dare you" with this company right now. Not only could they and would they close this plant if the powers that be deemed it necessary, but in the end somebody else would pay for it. You don't get it. What is there to negotiate anymore? A favorable agreement that both sides can use to work together to save this company. That's it. There is no more what have you done for me lately. They can do what they want, and nobody can do very much about it. You can't make financial demands of a company that is essentially "going out of business" anyways. If this union chose to strike, what's to stop the company from relieving all striking employees of their employment? Nothing! It's a sad fact of a tough economic time, but what could we do in this country to stop them? Quit buying their cars? Many have already done that, just read these forums. We can maintain decent health and safety and other decent work standards but the game of gimme, gimme, gimme, is done and over. I hate it as much as the next guy (or girl) but the writing is on the wall. We WILL lose benefits come September regardless of whether we accept a COA now. Only difference is that we may be able to put ourselves in a position to have a stake in the September negotiations. That's the reality of it, like it or not.
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Name the hog that I cut. You can't do it because it never happened. I am trying to get as much information as possible out to this membership which is way more than Fred is doing. I believe that the membership should have this information prior to anything coming to a vote. I'm sorry if you have a problem with that. I've seen what Fred considers "working together". It means that we are supposed to ignore it when he violates seniority and other contractual issues. My stand has always been for the truth. I guess some people just can't handle the truth, though.
Mary, I know you mean well, but right now Fred Pena cutting deals on the floor should be the least of anyones concerns. The livlihood issues that our plant and this company are facing at present are real ones, and should be given serious consideration. You seem to be pretty negative about this new agreement, but come on, there is no choice and you know it. No, the company is not going to tell anyone that they will close their plant if they refuse this ammended agreement, but at the end of the day, if we don't meet performance objectives that's what is going to happen. It doesn't matter who is in office. You simply can not negotiate a very favorable agreement with a comapny that has lost 12 billion dollars and will lose more in the very near future. There is no bluff to be called. I realize how upset all of this change makes everybody, myself included, but at the end of the day there is nothing to be had. The company is taking back control of it's busines and there is nothing we can do about it except try to keep our jobs. If this keeps getting worse, anything becomes possible and there is nothing that they could not ultimately take away from their employees. Company's do not have to transfer employees, they do not have to give them health care, they do not have to provide them pensions, they do not have to do anything really other than meet their tax obligations and follow established laws and regulations. What do we have to bargain against them with, either at the local or national levels anymore? Strike? They would reduce inventories while saving a ton of expenses, and quite possibly in todays world even terminate the employees. Ford has little to lose at this point and when it's all said and done, they are not going to allow the union to be the deciding factor of driving them to bankruptcy. As hard a pill as it is for all of us to swallow, the only true way to help ourselves to have any level of future security to is go along with their efforts to cut costs, no matter how painful that may be. We would be fools to not pass this agreement, you don't need to see it to know that!
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Slap, the common shares don't matter. The only ones that do are the "preferred" and we all know who holds those shares. Taking it back private means that Ford is not beholden to Wall Street. Once they get Wall Street out of the picture I believe that they could be stable internally. From the stability will come innovation and from that will come market growth. It's definitely going to take some time. No matter what Ford does, Wall Street will still promote the public perception of the foreign auto makers quality and "style" vs. the domestic makers.
I just want people to think "outside the box" so to speak. Ford is definitely going to have to do the same in order to survive.
Wall Street will promote this perception because it is itself fed largely by foreign funds. Granted, the majority of the company is held by the family in the form of preferred shares, but while the purchase of the plummeted shares could not force a buyout entirely, it could shake the market enough to make a repurchase by the controlling shareholders a costly one that this company can't afford right now. You don't think Billy and his siblings are going to kick in any of their own jack on this do you? They struggle to run a company, but they're smarter than that!
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Hmmmm, run the company into the ground, drive the price of shares down to the point they are nearly worthless, declare bankruptcy and void all labor contracts and obligations then buy back all the shares and take the company back to being private and tell Wall Street to go to hell. Sounds like Harvard Business School basics 101.
It does look like that is Mulally's plan of attack, doesn't it?
Nice thinking Mary. The only problem is that in this scenario, the "worthless" shares would be long gone by the time Ford had a chance to repurchase them. More than likely to a company like Toyota, or another more stable auto manufacturer. They have little choice but to try and win back the investors the old fashioned way. Innovation, internal stability, and market growth. Do you see any of these ingredients in the not too distant future for Ford?
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Has anyone gotten letters from overpayments going back 7 years
We did on my daughter who was still in high school -a minor child-and what happened-
Do you keep receipts going back that far
It was paid by insurance and now they want it back- she was in high school
I never thought anything about it because she was in school
Thanks very much for any help and what to do - besides contacting nesc already done it
You're more than likely going to have to prove that they did not overpay or they will garnish your wages. Did they ask you to provide any documentation for the time period that they are referring to? These things are often tied to the insurance audits, and when they find ineligible dependants during these audits, they not only take back any monies paid for premiums, but anything paid out on claims as well. Get your benefits rep involved, this will not go away!
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I would have thought that a Harvard graduate like yourself would have either avoided this "illiterate" discussion all together ,or you would have at the least come with something better than "dogfucker" .
Dukka,dont forget man,I said that news reports said he did a courtesy flush at the glass house. Thats gotta be worth some serious cash. :happy feet:
Wow. Dude you are SO funny. That is really hysterical, the courtesy flush joke that is. Please, give us more!
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well DUDE, if you think a charity is better then i'll send it to a charity that deals with the mentally challenged right along with your name...for you simply didn't understand what was being said. hope they can help you.
Don't flatter yourself. It is quite simple to understand what was being said. It was ungrateful whining, plain and simple. People like yourself will never be happy no matter what the company does. To think that this payout has anything to do with the upcoming negotiations is ridiculous. Anything that the company may be considering revising or eliminating will be far more significant than this amount paid to bonus, and I've got news for you, whatever they want at contract time, they're going to get, so you may as well take the money. There is no room for bargaining, and they will do little of it. It's do or die for Ford, and they are asking and rewarding their employees for their input and efforts, and paranoidal, insecure shmucks like yourself think it's all part of a grand scheme to get you. This wasn't something that was negotiated for. How ignorant are you? This was announced by the company, not the union. IT WAS A GIFT. Had the union had anything to do with it, GM and Chrysler would have gotten one too. So, go ahead and send it back money bags. Just know that the results of Septembers contract negotiations will be unaffected by doing so. Matter of fact, since you're so big on your principles and want to take this big stand against the company that does so little for you, why don't you send it certified and post for all to see the signed return receipt. I'll look forward to seeing it here toughguy!
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With the co. in trouble there is no need for this program anyway.Most emp;oyees don't use them and those who run them usually are puppets of current union elected and get their jobs by kissing up to those who are running for office. As far as I'm concerned if you want to get more education you should go outside and pay for it like non ford employees.Hey you work at Ford you can afford it. It's just to bad that you have to go back to work like everyone else!!!
You have some serious jealousy issues here. Fortunately for you, the benefits that can assist you with resolving them are still intact. Good luck!
OHAP COA
in Ford Employee Forum
Posted
No, not a manager, just have common sense. If you don't want to be judged, don't hang out in bars on your lunch break. It doesn't matter what you're drinkling, people will only talk of your presence there. Matters little to me what you say, you and I both know why people from our plant go to the local bars, and it's not for the yummy food! Spin it as you wish, it sets a poor example and it is bad pr for the company that pays you, period. As for bankruptcy, I don't recall saying that the company was going bankrupt, but if you think it is not a future possibilty given it's current financial state you are dead wrong! It matters not what Fords liquid cash state is, their debts far outweigh that. The purpse of bankruptcy is to absolve debt, typically through liquidation, which they have already done. If it came to a point whereas they could not pay their debt, they could very easily seek protection, and it would be granted, guaranteed. As for the judge not being elected again, where did you come up with that nonsense? Who the hell would ever know in the voting public what judge presided over Fords bankruptcy come election time,and why would they care? Are you suggesting that the uaw could sway such an election? Think again. The judge may not win, but it certainly would not be because he declared Ford bankrupt, in the unfortunate scenario where that would happen. The only people that would be affected by that is the employees and any creditors not holding a large enough note to get paid. Anybody else could give a shit less. It is incredibly ignorant to think anything is not a possibility at this point.
As for the company you speak of that had a bankruptcy denied due to having too much cash. Please share the name of that company you reference. I love to read about the case!