mr_blue_twisted_steel

No, I am not rejoicing. I have friends and family who work for the "used to be" big three and I do feel for them. But, when you build a good product, people will want to buy it. When you build mediocre product, customers go elsewhere. My area had two Ford plants close. One plant became a huge electronics facility and the other became multiple shopping centers. The people and region recovered. Instead of being frustrated with me, you should be discussing your issues with your senior management. They are ones who led you down this bumpy road. U.S. Car Buyers are Happier, but Detroit Lags Survey finds higher satisfaction with Toyota, Honda owners Updated: 11:42 a.m. ET Aug 15, 2006 DETROIT - U.S. consumer satisfaction with their vehicle purchases has reached an all-time high, but ratings for domestic automakers mostly lagged those for foreign competitors, according to a national survey released Tuesday. The University of Michigan American Customer Satisfaction Index, a measure of consumer attitudes about businesses and the economy, said customer satisfaction with automobiles rose 1.3 percent to 81 points, driven by an improvement in quality. The score, out of a total 100 points, is based on a survey of more than 5,000 buyers about quality, service and price. Consumers said quality had improved this year, while last year's increase stemmed from massive summer discounts from U.S. automakers, according to the study. "At least there is now a glimmer of hope here that Detroit is finally going in the right direction," said Claes Fornell, head of the Index at the University of Michigan. He added that increases in satisfaction due to price incentives were not sustainable. Complaints are at a 10-year low and value-for-money ratings are at an all-time high, the study showed. "But the most important story is quality," Fornell said. "According to customers, the quality of both products and accompanying service provided by the manufacturer has improved over the past year." The study showed that U.S. automakers such as General Motors Corp. and Ford Motor Co., which have been losing U.S. market share to foreign rivals, continued to lag overseas competitors such as Toyota Motor Corp. and Honda Motor Co. Ltd. "Although Detroit is narrowing the gap a bit, there is still a long way to go," Fornell said. " ... most of Detroit's nameplates are among the lower-scoring cars." Toyota, which is expected to overtake GM as the world's largest automaker in a year, topped the charts with a score of 87, unchanged from a year earlier. Customer satisfaction with GM's Buick brand rose 2.4 percent to 86 points. Honda's Honda brand and Toyota's Lexus brand also scored an 86, while BMW received an 85. Customer satisfaction for Ford fell from 2004 to the lowest score in the industry last year, the study showed. The brand remained in last place this year, although its score improved by 3 percent to 77. "It remains a telling indicator that only the higher-end nameplates like Buick, Cadillac and Lincoln are competitive on customer satisfaction with the Toyota, Honda, and Hyundai nameplates," Fornell said, "while the more comparable U.S. counterparts, such as GM's Pontiac, Daimler-Chrysler's Dodge and Ford, remain well behind."

I have a Mustang, so I am compelled to "hang and bitch". Why don't you skip over the thread and make room for the other 7,000 people who have read it.

Lives were lost due to this incredibly stupid design, so I hope they did more than fire him/her. The always hot $20 Texas Instruments pressure switch attached to the master brake cylinder wasn't even vital to the function of the cruise control. It was a back-up measure in case the cruise control switch on the brake pedal failed. You and I will never agree on the quality comparison of Ford/GM to Honda/Toyota, but you must admit the Asian guys are doing something right compared to Detroit...... AP News August 4, 2006 Toyota reports a 39 percent jump in profit Japanese automaker poised to overtake GM in worldwide sales TOKYO - Toyota appeared to be on track to overtake General Motors as the world's No. 1 automaker as it boosted vehicles sales around the world and reported a 39 percent jump in profit in the first fiscal quarter Friday. The Japanese automaker's reputation for delivering fuel efficiency was proving a boon at a time when drivers are balking at soaring gas prices — at about $3 per gallon at U.S. stations — analysts said. Toyota Motor Corp., the world's second biggest automaker, is among a clutch of Japanese vehicle companies reporting robust results lately in contrast to the plight of the U.S. automakers. --------------------------------------------------------------------- AP News August 3, 2006 Ford’s quarterly loss balloons to $254 million Ailing automaker also says luxury car unit won’t be profitable this year NEW YORK - Ford Motor Co.’s second-quarter loss more than doubled from what the No. 2 U.S. car maker previously reported because of higher-than-expected pension costs. In a second piece of weak news, the company said its luxury car division won’t be profitable this year. In a filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission Wednesday evening, Ford said it revised its loss to $254 million, or 14 cents per share, from the previously announced loss of $123 million, or 7 cents per share. That contrasts with a profit of $946 million, or 47 cents per share, posted in the second quarter of last year.

'06StangAwesomecar - I commend you on this info. The press is quick to point out all the closings and layoffs, but not the good news from Detroit. But, there is more bad blue oval news today. 4 million vehicles is nothing to sneeze at. Ford recalling 1.2 million trucks and vans Recall is in addition to 3.8 million recalled last year for potential fire hazard. Thursday, August 3, 2006 NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Ford Motor Co. is recalling 1.2 million large pick-up trucks, SUVs and vans because of a problem with the vehicles' cruise control system that could lead to a fire. This recall is in addition to 3.8 million Ford vehicles that were recalled for the same problem last year. The vehicles being recalled are: certain model year 1994 to 2002 F-250 through F-550 Super Duty trucks; 2000-2002 Excursion SUVs; 1994 to 1996 Econoline vans; 1996 to 2002 E-450 vans and 1998 Ford Explorer and Mercury Mountaineer SUVs. Diesel-powered vehicles are not affected. In rare cases, the company said in a letter to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, brake fluid can leak through the cruise control deactivation switch causing corrosion in the switch. This can cause the switch to overheat and possibly burn. The switch shuts off the cruise control when the driver firmly steps on the brakes. The switch is located under the hood of the vehicle and is attached to the brake master cylinder on one end and wired to the cruise control on the other. On most of its models, Ford designed the switch to be powered -- or "hot" -- at all times, even when the vehicle is off. Inside the switch, a thin film barrier separates brake fluid from the switch's electrical components. In January, 2005, Ford recalled certain Bronco, Expedition, Lincoln Blackwood and Lincoln Navigator SUVs as well as some Ford F-150 and F-250 pick-ups for the same problem. A total of 3.8 million vehicles were recalled at that time. Earlier, in September 2005, Ford recalled approximately 800,000 F-150 pick-ups for the problem. The company believes it has now recalled all vehicles that could have this problem, a Ford spokeswoman said.

No argument?? I have stated nothing but facts. I want what you are smoking. Grammar & language can be seen as a sign of education / intelligence. It makes a statement beyond the words you put on the screen. Why not GM?? Because they build junk also. My parents were GM customers for most of their lives. Brand new cars were brought back to the dealer for rattles, missing pieces, water leaks, exhaust system rattles, oil leaks (one Buick LeSabre Limited had 44 miles on it when they had to short block it with a new engine!), etc. I, like many other people, thought that problems with machines from the beginning were just expected and a fact of life. Then I bought the first Honda. My eyes were opened. My parents also bought their first Toyota and the same thing happened to them. Between their Toyota and my two Hondas, we have had zero recalls. The Toyota had a sensor fail at 91,000 miles. It took me about 20 minutes to pin point and another 45 minutes to replace it once I went out and bought it. The exhaust on my first Honda did rot at 44K miles. I thought that was premature. But, it wasn't so bad compared to my brother in laws Jeep Cherokee whose exhaust system fell off with less than 300 miles on it. I replaced the Honda system in about 2.5 hours at a cost of $121. Not too bad. If I have no argument, then why is GM & Ford letting thousands of people go and shutting dozens of plants while Toyota and Honda are building new plants and hiring thousands of workers?? Why? Give a good, honest explanation please...

1. Nice language and grammar. 2. I do not own a "Yoda", so I could care less about their recalls. The Japanese government is even reprimanding them in public for the recent recalls. Having worked with the Japanese for many years, I am sure they are honestly embarrassed by the recent recalls. An American car company is never embarrassed by recalls. Once the internal incriminating corporate documents and emails become public, they have the reaction of "oh crap, we got caught" and "better call the lawyers". Hopefully, Toyota can correct their problems quickly and professionally since they have billions of dollars at their disposal. Ford, on the other hand, is probably cutting all corners to try and save every dime. 3. My Honda turned 8,500 miles and not one hickup, major or minor. That's all I care about. So far it's been as reliable as my previous one. FAR, FAR better built and more reliable than the FIVE Fords I was unfortunate enough to own. 4. I am not happy that Ford is in such pain, but when you build semi-reliable garbage and treat your "faithfull" customers also like garbage, then you get what you deserve. Peace.

Ford news just keeps getting better.......... Ford lost $123 million in second quarter Automaker says losses mainly due to costs of cutting personnel July 20, 2006 AP News DEARBORN, Mich. - Ford Motor Co. said Thursday that it lost $123 million in the second quarter due to slumping sales and the cost of shedding personnel. The nation’s second-biggest automaker said it would cut production more than previously planned this quarter and pledged to accelerate its restructuring effort. It plans to announce new restructuring measures within the next two months. Chairman and Chief Executive Bill Ford said in a conference call that by the end of the year the company would be about a third of the way toward its goal of closing 14 plants and cutting 25,000 to 30,000 jobs by 2012. Production capacity will be down 15 percent by year’s end, he said.

You can't make this stuff up. All I have to do to is look in my filing cabinet. I create a file folder for every car I own. Each of the folders for the Ford cars are 1/4 to a 1/2 inch thick with copies of the bill of sale, warranty info, and copies of all the work orders performed at the dealer. The Honda folders only have a few sheets in each one, mainly with copies of the bill of sale, odometer statement, etc. Ford & GM are laying off people and closing plants. Honda and Toyota are hiring people and building more plants...... but I'm sure that's just something I "made up".

OutFront Teflon Toyota Joann Muller and Jonathan Fahey 07.03.06 Consumers don't seem bothered by a rash of recalls. Here's a quiz: a carmaker last month recalled 1 million vehicles worldwide. In 2005 it recalled 2.2 million vehicles in the U.S., 10% of its total number of cars on the road here and twice the number it recalled the year before. Who is this bumbling manufacturer? No, not General Motors (nyse: GM - news - people ), but Toyota (nyse: TM - news - people ), whose vehicles jump off the lot because consumers swear by their quality. Just a few weeks ago Toyota again dominated consumer polls in the annual J.D. Power & Associates initial quality study. Why this disconnect? The answer says something about the nature of recalls and how Toyota handles them. For one thing, the spike in recalls stems from Toyota's own efficiency. Rather than reengineering parts, it shares components among many models. So when something goes wrong, as it did recently with the steering shaft on the Prius and ten other (non-U.S.) models, the recall number is high. Toyota, moreover, has perfected the art of detecting and fixing quality problems early, often before customers even notice them. "What we tend to see is that if a customer receives a recall notice before their car exhibits any symptoms, they don't see it as a problem," says Chance Parker of J.D. Power. It counts as a recall, for sure, but the Power surveys are gauging consumers' level of satisfaction. And Toyota knows how to keep customers satisfied. It gives its dealers plenty of leeway to fix customer complaints even postwarranty--by some accounts as much as $3,000 per vehicle. Despite the headlines, it's not clear that Toyota's recall numbers are any worse than those of the other carmakers. The amount it spends making good on warranties is 1.2% of revenues versus 2.4% for GM and 2.3% for Ford (nyse: F - news - people ). Last year when Toyota had 12 recalls, covering 2.2 million vehicles in the U.S., GM had 30, covering 5.1 million, and Ford had 17, covering 6 million ( see story, p. 102). No question that Toyota's remarkable growth has hit some bumps. Consumer Reports dropped the reliability rating on its newly redesigned Avalon from "much better than average" to "average." Even Toyota management wonders whether it has the bench to guide its growth. But for now quality doesn't seem to be an issue.

And Twisted Steel, quite your job and go work for a Independent repair facility, for about 6months and you will see what I am talking about.Like I have said before I loved giving people their estimate, for their repairs (on Imports) their expressions where priceless. :lol: This is a non-issue for me and my family. The Hondas and Toyotas owned by us have only required routine maintenance, performed by my brother, father or myself.....No return trips to the dealers like the Fords, which could make the trip by themselves since they were there so much. A Toyota Avalon did need an O2 sensor at 91,200 miles, but we replaced it ourselves. Probably for 1/2 the cost a dealer would charge...

So where they at the dealer or not? ( would have been to the dealer) Whoopie, my Taurus was at the dealer once at 20k, now has 49k, no sqeaks or rattles, no issues. My New Mustang has 2k on it and it has no sqeaks, rattles. My 1999 Suberban with 90k has never been to the dealer, whats your point. >> All were most definitely at the dealer for unacceptable in warranty repairs. Some visits were made within 2 or 3 weeks of buying the car! Far too many visits to the blue oval store. All my Domestics cars have been DAMN reliable. >> Based on personal experience, as well as family, neighbors, friends, etc, you are in the minority. So you know the life cycle of all the parts on vehicles, amazing, And one more thing, most people who buy the import scrap would NEVER admit any problems with there cars anways, big problems are always small and small problems are normal, Oh the brakes went out , but it was fixed so fast,and it really wasnt a big deal, blah, blah, >> Maybe, but I can only comment on what I know. My family and I used to buy Ford and GM products. I also did all the work on them (out of warranty). I know a thing or two about repairing / replacing clutches, brakes, engines, cooling systems, etc. Fact: My 1992 Honda Accord and 2006 Honda Accord (so far) showed no signs of premature failure of any part. The 1992 car required routine maintenance, per the book, one exhaust system at 68K miles (before they were stainless steel) and front brake pads at 51K miles. That's it. I can't speak for other foreign car owners who "NEVER admit any problems", but I can speak for myself and my family's vehicles. Night and day difference between Ford and Honda initial and long term quality.

1. The Honda Accord just reached 6,600 miles. So far, not a single problem. Not a squeek, rattle or failure of any noticable component or part. My previous three Taurus' would have been to the dealer 2 or 3 times each for warranty problems before hitting 6,600 miles. 2. When your car is reliable, you don't have to hope to be friendly enough with the dealer so he cuts you some slack and fixes things out of warranty (things which shouldn't have failed to begin with).

Honda cleans up in Consumer Reports picks All 10 of the magazine's 2006 Top Picks are Japanese nameplates, but half are U.S.-made Hondas. March 1, 2006; Posted: 6:14 p.m. EST (2314 GMT) By Peter Valdes-Dapena, CNNMoney staff writer NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) - Japanese carmakers -- or, more specifically, Honda followed by Toyota and Subaru -- took all ten spots in this year's Consumer Reports magazine top picks. No American or European nameplates are represented in this year's list, which is published in the April issue of Consumer Reports magazine. The lone American nameplate model on last year's list, the Ford Focus, was replaced this year by the new, redesigned Honda Civic Of the five Honda vehicles on Consumer Reports' Top Picks, four are manufactured in the U.S. The remaining vehicle, the Honda Ridgeline, was designed and engineered in the U.S. but is built in Canada. Of the five other vehicles in the list, two are Toyotas, two are Subarus and one is from Nissan's Infiniti luxury division. The remaining five are all are produced in Japan. Consumers Reports buys vehicles anonymously for its test fleet through ordinary retail dealerships and tests them at a specially built facility in Connecticut. Among the tests performed are acceleration, handling, braking, ride quality and visibility. In addition to track tests, test engineers also drive the vehicle in ordinary day-to-day situations. To gauge reliability, the magazine surveys subscribers to both the magazine and its related Web site. Each respondent can supply data on up to two vehicles and the magazine has received survey data on about a million individual vehicles, Consumer Reports said. In order to be considered for a Top Pick a vehicle must have at least average predicted reliability, based on survey results, and good scores in crash tests by the government and the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety.

"Shocking" News...... Honda cleans up in Consumer Reports picks All 10 of the magazine's 2006 Top Picks are Japanese nameplates, but half are U.S.-made Hondas. March 1, 2006; Posted: 6:14 p.m. EST (2314 GMT) By Peter Valdes-Dapena, CNNMoney staff writer NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) - Japanese carmakers -- or, more specifically, Honda followed by Toyota and Subaru -- took all ten spots in this year's Consumer Reports magazine top picks. No American or European nameplates are represented in this year's list, which is published in the April issue of Consumer Reports magazine. The lone American nameplate model on last year's list, the Ford Focus, was replaced this year by the new, redesigned Honda Civic Of the five Honda vehicles on Consumer Reports' Top Picks, four are manufactured in the U.S. The remaining vehicle, the Honda Ridgeline, was designed and engineered in the U.S. but is built in Canada. Of the five other vehicles in the list, two are Toyotas, two are Subarus and one is from Nissan's Infiniti luxury division. The remaining five are all are produced in Japan. Consumers Reports buys vehicles anonymously for its test fleet through ordinary retail dealerships and tests them at a specially built facility in Connecticut. Among the tests performed are acceleration, handling, braking, ride quality and visibility. In addition to track tests, test engineers also drive the vehicle in ordinary day-to-day situations. To gauge reliability, the magazine surveys subscribers to both the magazine and its related Web site. Each respondent can supply data on up to two vehicles and the magazine has received survey data on about a million individual vehicles, Consumer Reports said. In order to be considered for a Top Pick a vehicle must have at least average predicted reliability, based on survey results, and good scores in crash tests by the government and the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety. ----------------------------------------- More trouble for Ford and GM Thursday, March 2, 2006 Bloomberg News Ford and General Motors lost more ground on their home turf to Japanese competitors last month. Ford sales dropped 4 percent and GM's fell 2.5 percent, as Toyota, Honda, and Nissan reported gains, as did DaimlerChrysler. "Ford looks to be in the toughest shape," said Jim Sourges of Cap Gemini. Both Ford and GM announced they would cut production of cars and trucks in North America over the next three months. The automakers have already announced a combined 60,000 in job cuts in the face of losses and falling market share.

Trans failed at 20K ?? That sounds like a real gem. They supposedly corrected the premature trans failures in 2002. Our fleet vehicles saw lots of failures at 20K to 50K miles. Totally unacceptable. Screw Detroit? Read the news brother. The world is moving toward one economy. Problems - Yes, your almost right. No dome light problems, but lots of other "minor" things. Battery failed and replaced when the Taurus was 2 weeks old. Leaky oil pan gasket (2x), replaced control valve in the transmission, stabilizer links replaced (right side), faulty headlight housing collecting mosture and buring out the headlight bulb repeatedly until they replaced the housing. 3 sets of new rotors which warp prematurely on all Sables and Taurus' since FoMoCo designed the car with undersized front rotors (very common), passenger power mirror failed, HVAC blower motor replaced (another common failure), CES light, but no problem found. That's all I can remember off the top of my head. Yes, all very minor problems. You are right on the money!

>> Some of your dealership friends are also getting fed up with how Ford is treating them. Take a look at an article in Forbes magazine a month or two ago. Dealers are dumping Ford in favor of other reliable brands. One dealer (who had been selling Fords for a few decades) basically said why should I continue selling 25 or 30 Fords per month when I can sell 100 to 130 Toyotas? And, he said Toyota doesn't treat me like crap. As previously stated, I have had a few Fords. All of which had problems. Some issues were expected and reasonable, but many were unacceptable, whether in warranty or not. The cars have been to various dealers and guess what? The dealer has nothing to do with the original quality or reliability of the vehicle. Their part in my life was to fix the problem. That was not an issue. Most of my Ford problems, from what I remember, were corrected in one visit, unless parts needed to be ordered. I guess if you need to visit the dealer often, then you have no choice but to become friends with them. I can only speak on behalf of my own vehicles, as well as my family's. All of which have been maintained as per manufacturer's specs. The Fords saw the dealer often. The Hondas and Toyotas really didn't have any serious problems. My parent's Avalon did have a turn signal light burn out at 31,000 miles. New bulb replaced at N/C under warranty. On my street I have seen the changes. A driveway and garage with only American cars driven for years. Then one family member gets a new or used Accord or Corolla. A few years later, there are 2 Asian cars. Then you see 3. Eventually there are no more American cars. Why is that? They saw the difference first hand and decided enough was enough. I did not mean for this to be a "bash American cars thread", I just became frustrated with all the problems. I wanted to vent and I also hoped that someone of importance at FoMoCo in Dearborn would see how "some" customers have reached the end of the line and why.

>> Make sure you get the Ford gas tank package installed ASAP to protect your CV gas tank from rear end collisions and explosions while you have someone pulled over. It's funny....Ford offers those parts for free to any LE Crn Vic, but the civillian with the Crn Vic has to pay for the retrofit out of their own pocket. Way to protect the public and keep loyal customers Ford!! My brother is on the job and has had 3 Crn Vics as his cruiser. He knows all of the mechanics in the town DPW by their middle names because he has been their so much. All 3 vehicles have had numerous problems, both in and out of warranty. He loves the car because it's free and it's his take home cruiser, but he would never spend his hard earned dollars on one.

I had my first Accord for 6 years. It needed 4 tires and one set of brake pads. It never went to the dealer once in 6 years. The Taurus was 2 years old and made 11 vists to the dealer with 14 problems. Then the 15th problem with the blend air door. You do the math.... I never said I bought a Honda truck.

as stated previously........."gone forever meant never buying another FoMoCo product, not leaving the site." I just want people to know that "some" of these cars are poorly designed, unreliable and have little resale value.

I failed to mention in my initial post that the same 2003 Taurus made 11 visits to the dealer under warranty to repair/correct 14 individual problems.

Black w/ grey interior 5 speed man. factory sunroof all other options 11,700 miles I really have no idea of it's value.

Everything I've read, heard about and experienced says you are correct. Initial quality has improved. But, long term quality and reliability is still poor. My family and I have lived it. Also, gone forever meant never buying another FoMoCo product, not leaving the site. I still, unfortunately, have that Mustang GT.

Never once said I was buying a truck.

I did say my family will never buy a Ford from now on. I am still somewhat of a fool. I have a 1987 Mustang GT in my garage with 11,700 miles. Some think the severe "corner-cutting" will occur in the future when Ford really has to tighten their belt. I have a feeling you (and many others) will be joining me somewhere down the reliability road..........