tzach
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Posts posted by tzach
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4 hours ago, GearheadGrrrl said:
Shrinking garage size is a trend the domestic pickup makers are missing- In new construction townhouses have been trending over single family for years, and condo garages are smaller- Thus the market for full size pickups and related BOF SUVs is shrinking while higher prices are pusher buyers to longer loans and ownership cycles. For the domestic pickup makers that have been comfortably lounging in their "chicken tax" created fortress, the market is shrinking while they have factories and UAW workers to keep busy.
It gets worse- Drive through any older suburb at 3am and the driveways in front of the two car attached garages are full and parts of the streets too as multi generation families have turned those double garages into bedrooms. If on street parking is banned driveway space is at a premium and buying an Edge instead of Explorer can mean one more car can fit in the driveway, and at "shift change" less family members will have to sit in a car on the street waiting for a driveway parking space.
The world and even America is changing. The Japanese and Korean makers get it, Ford not so much...
LOL, please tell me what extra car will fit in the 9.5 inches gained by the Edge over the Explorer.
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So many bad decisions, I remember when Ford would have 5 of the top 10 best sellers. Now only two of the top 25. Highlander and Grand Cherokee both outselling Explorer! RAV4/Camry 4/7, CRV/Accord 6/16 and Escape not in the top 25 while Fusion is no more. Corolla 13 , Civic 17 and Focus also no more. No Edge, Ranger, Bronco or Bronco Sport on the list. I have been a Ford guy since the mid eighties and this is the darkest time by far, so sad. Hopefully the near future will bring some brighter days. To top it off I am also a NY Giant fan and that has been prety bad for the last decade as well.
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4 hours ago, rmc523 said:
You're also ignoring the fact that they could have sold more ICE products if they had parts (which would've resulted in additional sales/growth from that side). To pretend like there's some immediate seismic switch in Ford's sales because ICE/hybrid was flat and BEV had a whole 2,600 unit increase is taking it way too far.
Whether you want to admit it or not, ICE/hybrid products and sales are going to be very relevant and important for at least the next 10 years.
I think more like 20 years. You have to take into account battery supply, charging network, range, time to charge as well as moving doubters/haters into EV. In addition getting cost in line with ICE never mind the fact that the cost of electric has gone up negating some of that advantage. Yeah the coasts will start changing over but the middle of the country is going to take a long time.
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53 minutes ago, Rick73 said:
Probably, but betting on the come seems risky to me because solutions may not be as efficient (or affordable) as we need. I prefer making decisions based on known information, not based on hope that we can dig ourselves out of any problems we create for ourselves.
My personal opinion is that we can accomplish a lot more towards improving the environment if we focus on conservation and upgrading the grid first by removing worst power generators from service as soon as practical. Adding any load to the grid will just slow the process of eliminating coal, and then natural gas. Data not only for ERCOT, but total US generation shows that coal plants are based loaded, and additional power peaks are essentially met with natural gas. Short term I feel we are doing more harm than good. We may be improving overall, but we are not improving as much as we could be with same effort and cost, so in my opinion we are going about this wrong. Our priority should be on reducing CO2 in atmosphere, not manufacturing BEVs. They are not one and the same. Society has limited resources, and I think emphasizing BEVs that are not actually contributing to lower CO2 all that much today, or in next 5 ~ 10 years or longer, is somewhat misguided. We can and should do better.
Very well said.
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19 hours ago, rperez817 said:
12 years from now is the latter part of calendar year 2034. Ford's own plan is 100% ZEV (which means BEV for non-commercial vehicles) by 2035 in all major markets including U.S. and Canada. In the U.S. market specifically, the "BEV for 45% of new car sales" milestone should be reached well before 2030 at the current rate of growth (which is likely to accelerate in the next few years).
Explorer BEV + Aviator BEV by themselves should be plenty to keep OAC at high utilization once start of production takes place. Those 2 vehicles represent the heart of the BEV crossover market.
Ford has had a lot of plans over the years as have other automakers, that doesn't mean it is going to happen just because it is their plan. To assume that the current rate of growth will accelerate over the next few years is probably a good guess, maybe, but after that you can not make that assumption. Right now they are getting all of the people that are fans of electric cars, but after that you have to get the haters and the apathetic. As long as the obsticles I mentioned earlier are met the apathetic will be easier, but what if the issues (some or all) still exist? I could not tell you how many people fall into the thre categories and that will have an impact on reaching that 45% as well. Again I will believe it when I see it. I have seen a lot of predictions about the future all of my life and one thing is for sure, most of them are incorrect one way or another. Of course that could also mean we hit 45% in 8 years,but I doubt it. Let us not also forget about the supply chain issues that persist and what the long term holds there.
Also to assume we will eventually in any time frame be 100% electric and there will be no competing technology is to ignore the way the world works for the most part.
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24 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:
Estimates are saying 45% of new cars sales will be BEVs in 12 years or sohttps://cdn.ihsmarkit.com/www/pdf/0421/675485260-0421-CU-AUT-ZEV-Whitepaper.pdf
but also adoption rates have been doubling each year also for BEVs, so you might see it even faster then that.
I will believe that when I see it. The move to BEV is going to greatly depend on charging infrastructure and solid state batteries (time to charge and range) as well as cost parity with ICE. If all of these move along quickly you may see that 45% of new car sales in 12 years. If one or more if not all of them move slower towards reality then you may be at more like 25% in that 12 year period if not lower. Time will tell and BEV also have to fight against the natural inclination against change a lot of people have.
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3 hours ago, jniffen said:
My '79 and '84 Hatchbacks were more tolerable of having people in the backseat.
Wouldn't take them across country but in town or driving to the next town was doable.
Especially for the headroom.
LOL. I bought a 2013 GT Convertible last year and wanted Grabber Blue. The only one I could find was in Denver and I live in NJ. It was going to be about $1000 to ship it. So me and my two sons flew out on a Saturday to Denver and drove it 28 hours back to NJ. I spent about 6 hours overnight in the back while my son drove trying to get some sleep ( I am 6'2" 270 lbs). Let me tell you that is no luxury hotel back there, although I did manage to get some sleep on and off. I have had a 1972 Mach I, 1988 GT, 2007 V6 and the 2013. Both the '72 and the '88 while not being anything to brag about were bigger in the back than the '07 and '13. The '88 was the most roomy, the '72 was like being in a bunker. You couldn't see anything from back there. Needless to say none of them have gotten a lot of back seat time.
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I have no doubt the power will be more than enough. It is the sound and the shifting I will miss, but I get sacrifices always need to be made in the name of progress. Sad but inevitable.
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16 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:
It became redundant when Escape became bigger and has better interior space utilization.16 hours ago, akirby said:
Just looking at 2 row crossover utilities - Escape, MME, Bronco Sport. Not identical but they are all 2 row crossovers and have to be cross shopped a little. Then there is Bronco.Not only is the Edge a good amount larger than Escape, there is no comparison in the perceived level of the two. Never mind the size no one is cross shopping Bronco Sport with Edge and Bronco is such a different animal (no pun intended). Now Mach E while significantly smaller does have a higher end feel probably even higher than Edge but at this point in time BEV are not on enough peoples radar to make it a viable alternative. I get not having a replacement gasser but keep the current one around until it dies out at least. This will definitely leave a big hole in the line up.
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18 hours ago, rperez817 said:
The measurements on various vehicle comparison websites indicate Mach-E is larger than Escape on the inside except for headroom. For example, here are the numbers from consumerreports.org.
I sat in both back to back and despite the numbers the Escape seemed roomier front and especially in the back. Now I am 6' 2" and tall in the body so headroom does impact me a lot.
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2 hours ago, FordBuyer said:
So are the Nautilus and Edge nameplates to be ended after 2023? There certainly is room for 2 row CUV's that are bigger than compact Escape. Or are there to be 2 Row Explorer and Aviator models instead? Since Lincoln is already down to 4 nameplates, ending Nautilus makes little sense.
I agree from Escape to Explorer is a huge gap. Even though overall the MME and the Escape are similar in size, when you sit in them the Escape is much larger inside in the front and especially the back. A lot of this is due to height I guess.
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23 minutes ago, twintornados said:
With more emphasis on SUV's and CUV's, both Edge and Nautilus are becoming redundant in the line. Ford could, but wont, build a two row version of Explorer / Aviator and call it a day for Edge / Nautilus replacements but the EV revolution is throwing an electric curve ball at the line up.
I am curious what Edge is redundant with in Fords lineup?
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I have a 2010 Escape hybrid at work which stops when you are at a light. I do not find it annoying at all and have not since I first got it. Is the Hybrid stop/start different then on the non-hybrid motors? I just don't get why so many people hate this feature so much. I really don't even notice it at all, but maybe it is different on the hybrid.
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On 6/16/2021 at 11:58 AM, JTL2017 said:
It’s certainly interesting. They’re definitely doing the space theme.
I saw "Constellation" flashed in the video, could that be the name of the new model?
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3 hours ago, mackinaw said:
Plus charging stations as common as gas stations.
I don't thin this is necessary at all. Most driving is back and forth to home, where the vehicle can be charged. On routes like highways where people are taking long trips yes but in general no. There are about five to eight gas stations within five minutes of my house in the suburbs. There are virtually no long distance travelers driving around most small and medium size towns and there is no need for electric at all of these locations even if 100% of the fleet was electric.
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I would say No and No.
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21 hours ago, jasonj80 said:
100% that is exactly why we have safer cars. Accidents that were thought to be not survivable 30 years ago people walk from now. Headlights that actually light up the road and systems that are preventing accidents from even happening at all. Always get better.Agree and thank god because people can not drive anymore and are either on prescription drugs or just oblivious to what they ae doing. The number of people I see staring ahead like a zombie is amazing, driving is like the zombie apocalypse. The rest of them are apathetic and put no thought or care into how their actions effect anyone else.
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On 9/29/2020 at 12:48 PM, bzcat said:
I think the market is going to shift pretty quickly after 2022 or 23 when lots of affordable EVs will hit the market. I agree ICE vehicles will be around well into the 2030s but it will be either outdated ancient legacy models being sold for cheap, or some type of nostalgic niche market like Bronco or Mustang where buyers prefer less efficient gas engines.
Ford is already planning to not replace ICE Edge that would normally be due in 2021 so what makes you think they will spend money to do another ICE Escape or Explorer that are due in 2026 or 27? At best, you'll see the ICE version of the current model limping around for bargain buyers until 2030 like the Edge is now being extended to 2023. But the mainstream volume products is going to be mainly BEV by that time frame.
There is no way this will happen so fast. Price has to come down, range has to go up, and charging time has to come down. Then comes the slow mainstream changeover starting more on the coasts and moving to the middle of the country. Just a guess but the decade of the '30's will be the accelerating change over and the '40's will be the fade out of the ICE to just the niche markets you mentioned.
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21 minutes ago, jasonj80 said:
Things that were being considered were Mustang, Ford Sedan,(Taurus/Falcon/Mondeo replacement) Continental, Lincoln 2 Door/4 Door coupe, Lincoln Coupe SUV, Police Interceptor Sedan, Edge, Nautilus. Don't be surprised to see this Explorer only around for 5ish years before it is replaced with something new and more profitable to produce.What a shame this was all killed. Was this a result of the killing of cars I assume?
Will an Explorer replacement go back to FWD?
I wonder if Farley will change any of this?
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4 minutes ago, Deanh said:
I don't think they ever did...looks like brushed Aluminum to me...
I agree, I don't think the letters will light up.
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12 hours ago, akirby said:
You missed the point. There is no blind spot if you adjust your mirrors properly. Doesn’t matter what you’re driving or for what purpose. People just don’t like it or they incorrectly believe it’s a safety issue.Thank you so much. This is another one of my huge pet peeves. This is such an accepted falsehood perpetuated by so many. I was even taught this when I was learning to drive 38 years ago.
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2 hours ago, tbone said:
As an Explorer ST owner, I agree with you. IMO it diminishes the name a bit, and removes the uniqueness of the ST line. ST should meet more than a look. “Sport” would have been sufficient.Totally agree, It should be Sport or something else as I also hate the generic "Sport".
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15 hours ago, AGR said:
The premise of the thread, and the Autoline Daily quote that inspired it, are faulty. When the public collectively decides to go electric, the switchover of the new car market will occur in a relatively short timeframe, something like 5-7 years from single digit % to a majority. And it will continue climbing from there. This will occur when pricing, range, and charge converge to an acceptable point. What that point is, is the big mystery; no one has a crystal ball, least of all us. Sure, some market segments and geographic outliers will still be mostly ICE, but those will be increasingly less common.
Eventually, ICE cars will end up like tube TVs: yeah, they still work, but hardly anybody will want them. Classic cars? Many will still use ICE, but there's already a cottage industry developing EV powertrains to retrofit old cars. Volkswagen has one from the factory to retromod their classic RE air cooled cars and vans. Myself, I'd rather see a Deuce Coupe with an EV powertrain than a Chitty small block.
For those who doubt this, just remember that you're an enthusiast. The average Joe or Jolene puttering around in their Camcords and RavCRVs are nowhere close as wedded to ICE as you are.
Sales your talking about? So if the EV takes off five years from now and takes 5-7 years to hit majority sales that's 2032. Even if at that time it was 100% at 17 million sales per year it would take 16 years to replace all of the vehicles, that's 2048. So even with those numbers that's 28 years away.
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And those estimates are hypothetically based on EV's being half of new cars sold now. That number is more likely to be reached ten years from now or longer. So in that case we are looking at 2080 before we are full electric. I will be 115 years old by then?
2025 Explorer tomorrow
in Ford Motor Company Discussion Forum
Posted
That looks fantastic. Agree should be standard on Platinum and optional on ST.