tzach
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Posts posted by tzach
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1 hour ago, DeluxeStang said:
I agree strongly with your points here. I firmly believe Ford should go back to offering a wider portfolio of products, and just reimagine some of those offerings to make them more aspirational. I see no reason why Ford can't reimagine the escape as a sexier road going performance crossover for instance.
I totally agree. They tried to do two things with Escape, 1. contrast it with the boxy Bronco Sport and 2. have it replace the old Escape and be a sedan alternative. I don't necessarily think that was a mistake but the execution was horrible. Instead of the rounded boring styling of the current Escape give it more angular sporty lines, sort of like a Range Rover Evoque. Not sure who said it but the quote went "You can sell a sporty car to someone who doesn't care about styling but you can't sell a boring car to someone who who does". Any segment can be styled sporty or "cool".
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Problem is when inflation comes down that is only the rate of increase. Everything still costs a lot more and most of the costs will not come down. Probably the best we can hope for is that prices stay flat and what we make keeps going up.
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My thoughts;
1. The 24" screen looks incomplete, maybe put the other 1/2 but not a screen just a black panel to finish it on the passenger side or some kind of bezel that tapers off on the right side.
2. The article I read said they blacked out the tailgate to bring attention to the fact that it is split. Not a good reason if it takes away from the look. I don't really like it.
3. The lights in the tailgate I assume are meant to mirror the front ones on the Tremor but they are just floating and would have been better connected to the taillights or put it some kind of trim bar like the front ones.
4. Front is too GM like and a little boring especially compared to the current front which I love.
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So sad for the Edge. I saw the stagnation of the BEV market coming from a mile away. First you can not force a new technology onto the general public that is not ready to compete directly with what it is supposed to replace. Yes you have the new technology lovers, the something different lovers and the save the planet greenies. Once they were driving a BEV you would need to move onto the mainstream buyers. Unfortunately the range, speed of charging and convenience of charging locations all were not there. Then throw in the cost which is bad enough on the coasts but is even more of an obstacle in the middle of the country. Ford should have never threw all there eggs so quickly into the BEV basket and now they are paying the price. Will BEV eventually take over for ICE? Perhaps when solid state batteries are perfected. You never know though, a competing technology can come out of no where and take over, possibly synthetic fuel? That would allow for the current infrastructure to be retained. Who knows though if synthetic will be able to be produced to compete on price? Not me for sure. Whatever takes over needs to allowed to develop and take out gasoline without government interference. This is what happens when governments try to force something that is not ready to compete with the existing way.
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On 6/4/2024 at 12:47 PM, silvrsvt said:
There is so much of a perception problem with EVs and the general stupidity of social media/If it bleeds, it leads reporting headlines that make it sound like EVs are an absolute disaster, when its going to be slow and most likely a drawn out process that takes at least the next 10 years or so.
I'm willing to bet that EVs will make up around 50% of the market by the end of the decade.
Do you mean 50% of all vehicles on the road or 50% of new car sales in 2029. The former not a chance that will take way longer to get the middle of the county to transition. 50% of new car sales I still doubt it in 5 years. First quarter 2024 sales were 7.3% of the market. There are only 40 EV models for sale this year compared to how many ICE models? It will of course grow each year in models available and sales. I see more like 2040 to get to 50% new EV sales and longer to get to 90%. I doubt it will ever be 100% and lets not forget any competing non-ICE vehicles that may pop up in the next 20 years that could compete with EV.
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On 2/4/2024 at 1:27 AM, tbone said:
I watched an overview of the 25 ST by a YouTube dude, and his thoughts were virtually identical to mine. Ironically, at the end of the video, he had a pic of a current ST with the plastic trim painted. As I had mentioned I think this should be standard on the Platinum, and optional on the ST. I think it looks really clean, and more upscale.
That looks fantastic. Agree should be standard on Platinum and optional on ST.
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4 hours ago, GearheadGrrrl said:
Shrinking garage size is a trend the domestic pickup makers are missing- In new construction townhouses have been trending over single family for years, and condo garages are smaller- Thus the market for full size pickups and related BOF SUVs is shrinking while higher prices are pusher buyers to longer loans and ownership cycles. For the domestic pickup makers that have been comfortably lounging in their "chicken tax" created fortress, the market is shrinking while they have factories and UAW workers to keep busy.
It gets worse- Drive through any older suburb at 3am and the driveways in front of the two car attached garages are full and parts of the streets too as multi generation families have turned those double garages into bedrooms. If on street parking is banned driveway space is at a premium and buying an Edge instead of Explorer can mean one more car can fit in the driveway, and at "shift change" less family members will have to sit in a car on the street waiting for a driveway parking space.
The world and even America is changing. The Japanese and Korean makers get it, Ford not so much...
LOL, please tell me what extra car will fit in the 9.5 inches gained by the Edge over the Explorer.
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So many bad decisions, I remember when Ford would have 5 of the top 10 best sellers. Now only two of the top 25. Highlander and Grand Cherokee both outselling Explorer! RAV4/Camry 4/7, CRV/Accord 6/16 and Escape not in the top 25 while Fusion is no more. Corolla 13 , Civic 17 and Focus also no more. No Edge, Ranger, Bronco or Bronco Sport on the list. I have been a Ford guy since the mid eighties and this is the darkest time by far, so sad. Hopefully the near future will bring some brighter days. To top it off I am also a NY Giant fan and that has been prety bad for the last decade as well.
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4 hours ago, rmc523 said:
You're also ignoring the fact that they could have sold more ICE products if they had parts (which would've resulted in additional sales/growth from that side). To pretend like there's some immediate seismic switch in Ford's sales because ICE/hybrid was flat and BEV had a whole 2,600 unit increase is taking it way too far.
Whether you want to admit it or not, ICE/hybrid products and sales are going to be very relevant and important for at least the next 10 years.
I think more like 20 years. You have to take into account battery supply, charging network, range, time to charge as well as moving doubters/haters into EV. In addition getting cost in line with ICE never mind the fact that the cost of electric has gone up negating some of that advantage. Yeah the coasts will start changing over but the middle of the country is going to take a long time.
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53 minutes ago, Rick73 said:
Probably, but betting on the come seems risky to me because solutions may not be as efficient (or affordable) as we need. I prefer making decisions based on known information, not based on hope that we can dig ourselves out of any problems we create for ourselves.
My personal opinion is that we can accomplish a lot more towards improving the environment if we focus on conservation and upgrading the grid first by removing worst power generators from service as soon as practical. Adding any load to the grid will just slow the process of eliminating coal, and then natural gas. Data not only for ERCOT, but total US generation shows that coal plants are based loaded, and additional power peaks are essentially met with natural gas. Short term I feel we are doing more harm than good. We may be improving overall, but we are not improving as much as we could be with same effort and cost, so in my opinion we are going about this wrong. Our priority should be on reducing CO2 in atmosphere, not manufacturing BEVs. They are not one and the same. Society has limited resources, and I think emphasizing BEVs that are not actually contributing to lower CO2 all that much today, or in next 5 ~ 10 years or longer, is somewhat misguided. We can and should do better.
Very well said.
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19 hours ago, rperez817 said:
12 years from now is the latter part of calendar year 2034. Ford's own plan is 100% ZEV (which means BEV for non-commercial vehicles) by 2035 in all major markets including U.S. and Canada. In the U.S. market specifically, the "BEV for 45% of new car sales" milestone should be reached well before 2030 at the current rate of growth (which is likely to accelerate in the next few years).
Explorer BEV + Aviator BEV by themselves should be plenty to keep OAC at high utilization once start of production takes place. Those 2 vehicles represent the heart of the BEV crossover market.
Ford has had a lot of plans over the years as have other automakers, that doesn't mean it is going to happen just because it is their plan. To assume that the current rate of growth will accelerate over the next few years is probably a good guess, maybe, but after that you can not make that assumption. Right now they are getting all of the people that are fans of electric cars, but after that you have to get the haters and the apathetic. As long as the obsticles I mentioned earlier are met the apathetic will be easier, but what if the issues (some or all) still exist? I could not tell you how many people fall into the thre categories and that will have an impact on reaching that 45% as well. Again I will believe it when I see it. I have seen a lot of predictions about the future all of my life and one thing is for sure, most of them are incorrect one way or another. Of course that could also mean we hit 45% in 8 years,but I doubt it. Let us not also forget about the supply chain issues that persist and what the long term holds there.
Also to assume we will eventually in any time frame be 100% electric and there will be no competing technology is to ignore the way the world works for the most part.
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24 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:
Estimates are saying 45% of new cars sales will be BEVs in 12 years or sohttps://cdn.ihsmarkit.com/www/pdf/0421/675485260-0421-CU-AUT-ZEV-Whitepaper.pdf
but also adoption rates have been doubling each year also for BEVs, so you might see it even faster then that.
I will believe that when I see it. The move to BEV is going to greatly depend on charging infrastructure and solid state batteries (time to charge and range) as well as cost parity with ICE. If all of these move along quickly you may see that 45% of new car sales in 12 years. If one or more if not all of them move slower towards reality then you may be at more like 25% in that 12 year period if not lower. Time will tell and BEV also have to fight against the natural inclination against change a lot of people have.
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3 hours ago, jniffen said:
My '79 and '84 Hatchbacks were more tolerable of having people in the backseat.
Wouldn't take them across country but in town or driving to the next town was doable.
Especially for the headroom.
LOL. I bought a 2013 GT Convertible last year and wanted Grabber Blue. The only one I could find was in Denver and I live in NJ. It was going to be about $1000 to ship it. So me and my two sons flew out on a Saturday to Denver and drove it 28 hours back to NJ. I spent about 6 hours overnight in the back while my son drove trying to get some sleep ( I am 6'2" 270 lbs). Let me tell you that is no luxury hotel back there, although I did manage to get some sleep on and off. I have had a 1972 Mach I, 1988 GT, 2007 V6 and the 2013. Both the '72 and the '88 while not being anything to brag about were bigger in the back than the '07 and '13. The '88 was the most roomy, the '72 was like being in a bunker. You couldn't see anything from back there. Needless to say none of them have gotten a lot of back seat time.
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I have no doubt the power will be more than enough. It is the sound and the shifting I will miss, but I get sacrifices always need to be made in the name of progress. Sad but inevitable.
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16 hours ago, fuzzymoomoo said:
It became redundant when Escape became bigger and has better interior space utilization.16 hours ago, akirby said:
Just looking at 2 row crossover utilities - Escape, MME, Bronco Sport. Not identical but they are all 2 row crossovers and have to be cross shopped a little. Then there is Bronco.Not only is the Edge a good amount larger than Escape, there is no comparison in the perceived level of the two. Never mind the size no one is cross shopping Bronco Sport with Edge and Bronco is such a different animal (no pun intended). Now Mach E while significantly smaller does have a higher end feel probably even higher than Edge but at this point in time BEV are not on enough peoples radar to make it a viable alternative. I get not having a replacement gasser but keep the current one around until it dies out at least. This will definitely leave a big hole in the line up.
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18 hours ago, rperez817 said:
The measurements on various vehicle comparison websites indicate Mach-E is larger than Escape on the inside except for headroom. For example, here are the numbers from consumerreports.org.
I sat in both back to back and despite the numbers the Escape seemed roomier front and especially in the back. Now I am 6' 2" and tall in the body so headroom does impact me a lot.
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2 hours ago, FordBuyer said:
So are the Nautilus and Edge nameplates to be ended after 2023? There certainly is room for 2 row CUV's that are bigger than compact Escape. Or are there to be 2 Row Explorer and Aviator models instead? Since Lincoln is already down to 4 nameplates, ending Nautilus makes little sense.
I agree from Escape to Explorer is a huge gap. Even though overall the MME and the Escape are similar in size, when you sit in them the Escape is much larger inside in the front and especially the back. A lot of this is due to height I guess.
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23 minutes ago, twintornados said:
With more emphasis on SUV's and CUV's, both Edge and Nautilus are becoming redundant in the line. Ford could, but wont, build a two row version of Explorer / Aviator and call it a day for Edge / Nautilus replacements but the EV revolution is throwing an electric curve ball at the line up.
I am curious what Edge is redundant with in Fords lineup?
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I have a 2010 Escape hybrid at work which stops when you are at a light. I do not find it annoying at all and have not since I first got it. Is the Hybrid stop/start different then on the non-hybrid motors? I just don't get why so many people hate this feature so much. I really don't even notice it at all, but maybe it is different on the hybrid.
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On 6/16/2021 at 11:58 AM, JTL2017 said:
It’s certainly interesting. They’re definitely doing the space theme.
I saw "Constellation" flashed in the video, could that be the name of the new model?
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3 hours ago, mackinaw said:
Plus charging stations as common as gas stations.
I don't thin this is necessary at all. Most driving is back and forth to home, where the vehicle can be charged. On routes like highways where people are taking long trips yes but in general no. There are about five to eight gas stations within five minutes of my house in the suburbs. There are virtually no long distance travelers driving around most small and medium size towns and there is no need for electric at all of these locations even if 100% of the fleet was electric.
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I would say No and No.
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21 hours ago, jasonj80 said:
100% that is exactly why we have safer cars. Accidents that were thought to be not survivable 30 years ago people walk from now. Headlights that actually light up the road and systems that are preventing accidents from even happening at all. Always get better.Agree and thank god because people can not drive anymore and are either on prescription drugs or just oblivious to what they ae doing. The number of people I see staring ahead like a zombie is amazing, driving is like the zombie apocalypse. The rest of them are apathetic and put no thought or care into how their actions effect anyone else.
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On 9/29/2020 at 12:48 PM, bzcat said:
I think the market is going to shift pretty quickly after 2022 or 23 when lots of affordable EVs will hit the market. I agree ICE vehicles will be around well into the 2030s but it will be either outdated ancient legacy models being sold for cheap, or some type of nostalgic niche market like Bronco or Mustang where buyers prefer less efficient gas engines.
Ford is already planning to not replace ICE Edge that would normally be due in 2021 so what makes you think they will spend money to do another ICE Escape or Explorer that are due in 2026 or 27? At best, you'll see the ICE version of the current model limping around for bargain buyers until 2030 like the Edge is now being extended to 2023. But the mainstream volume products is going to be mainly BEV by that time frame.
There is no way this will happen so fast. Price has to come down, range has to go up, and charging time has to come down. Then comes the slow mainstream changeover starting more on the coasts and moving to the middle of the country. Just a guess but the decade of the '30's will be the accelerating change over and the '40's will be the fade out of the ICE to just the niche markets you mentioned.
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Ford wants ST and RS badges to carry over to performance EVs.
in Ford Motor Company Discussion Forum
Posted
It is a very sad time to be a Ford Fan. I have driven Fords exclusively since my first car I bought, a 1972 Mustang Mach 1. The aero design introduction in 1983 really kicked Ford into high gear for about a decade, probably the best time at least during my lifetime. Now with the death of all the sedans, Edge and soon Escape there is not much left and what is left is super expensive. Hopefully they have a good plan going forward maybe with hybrids first to transition to EVs later and some less expensive options.