Captainp4
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Posts posted by Captainp4
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2 hours ago, akirby said:
The Chinese Edge is not a good looking vehicle to me nor do I think Edge buyers would like it. It needs an entirely new greenhouse and shorter wheelbase to sell here IMO.
I like it besides whatever is happening there on the C pillar, but does look larger, almost explorer size, hard to tell from those pictures.-
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It was always my opinion that the mandates were reactionary and based on the market was showing at the time. Now that the ramp rate has slowed a little they react again and act like they made the choice..
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17 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:
See, if all of these EVs were still in development, I wouldn't be concerned. But it sounds like everything that isn't t3 or the three rows is either on hold, or they've been canceled all together. Billions of dollars wasted, gone, all for nothing.
I don't want Ford to flood the market with a ton of EVs they aren't ready for. But I also don't like this direction Ford is going in of throwing up their hands and giving up. Ford does this all the time, they have good ideas, but their timing is some of the worst in the auto industry. It feels like Ford is always too early, or too late to market with an idea. They screw up the timing, and then say "There's no demand" and leave the segment.
We aren't gonna see millions of EV buyers overnight, but the EV market is still growing. Ford was just getting it right, investing in dedicated EV platforms, partnering with Tesla to have a reliable charging infrastructure, reducing costs. They were starting to correct their early mistakes. Now, they're basically saying we give up, there's no demand for EVs because our heavily compromised gen 1 EVs with lots of shortcomings aren't selling, it means there's no demand.
No, maybe it just means figure your shit out, and come out with performance EVs that don't cut power after five seconds, and EV trucks that can actually do truck things without falling on their face. Make EVs people want, that they can afford, and that don't have lists of glaring flaws.
I've been looking a lot at the Lightning after Cybertruck missed so many of their promises (towing/range/price).. after objectively looking at all of the options I think the Lightning is the best option for someone that needs a truck and wants to make the switch to BEV (The Chevy one is pretty decent too), but hoping the next generation Lightning or T3 can push a little further into heavy half/f250 range. I know they've said they aren't planning on entering that class with BEV, and realize my needs/wants are probably fairly niche, especially with the guys that measure their peen length by how many tqs their diesel has - but I'm ready to buy when someone can give me ~14k towing (I need 9-10k daily, but would like some margin and not be at max all the time) and more than 100 miles while doing it. I don't go over 100 miles on my normal route so it would work as work truck only - but I also don't want to keep the diesel around for the 3-4 times a year I tow for a weekend trip. I know it's possible with "fast" charging and all that, but I don't want to deal with that while trying to get away for a weekend 4 wheeling or camping trip. 200-250 miles on a charge would match the range of my diesel when towing and I'd be content with that. Probably be waiting until solid state batteries are viable for that to be a possibility though.
But I am a potential buyer of a BEV truck, just very hesitant with how close I'd be pushing it on Lightning specs. -
15 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:
At least it's improving. Aside from explorer, and maybe escape, most of the Ford products being built now seem to have decent quality.
I couldn't come up with an answer I felt confident in for your other thread that doesn't have a caveat with it. -
I like the "laser focus" shout out to Mulally, even if it wasn't intentional lol
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11 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:
Most of us can appreciate some of what Tesla has accomplished for the EV industry. The difference is many of us despite being able to respect Tesla, don't worship Tesla and Elon as these perfect God like figures, and that's insulting to Tesla's fanbase. Tesla's fanbase are the kind of people who think if you have any criticisms of something, it means you hate their company with a passion. Most people don't, I just don't get a half chub everytime Elon speaks.
I agree there too, and I'll admit I'm a big fan of Elon's work/companies, especially in the aerospace industry with SpaceX, but the mega Tesla fans are pretty weird and usually fairly delusional. I watch everything SpaceX does, and most of what Tesla does because I really like their mission statements and the built in efficiency, but I'm also here on this forum watching everything Ford does because it's all I've ever owned and like to think they'll figure it out too.-
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32 minutes ago, akirby said:
Yes, like Tesla. I give Tesla lots of credit for more efficient manufacturing processes and cost savings. I was skeptical at first and I don’t think it started to pay off until the last 2-3 years. And I don’t think everything they’re doing should be copied but I give credit where it’s due.
I'll be honest and say I didn't expect that response out of you, but I really appreciate it. Good work as a mod. Like, legitimately and sincerely.-
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10 hours ago, akirby said:
I think they’re mostly developing cheaper components and manufacturing methods. Probably making most of it in house. Less hardware more software.
.. Like Tesla?
I'm sorry, I'll stop, don't ban me ?-
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20 hours ago, Harley Lover said:
Re: Hydrogen. If I recall correctly, the Japanese government provides significant incentives to its OEMs to develop hydrogen tech for vehicles. I *think* the same is true of South Korea. Perhaps the Japanese (and maybe Korean) governments already have in place (or are planning) a significant hydrogen infrastructure for their country's vehicle fleets? I could see a geopolitical angle to such an emphasis, as it would diminish their reliance on imported fuels. Not saying any of this is true, just speculating.
Came here to say this as well, the Japanese government has been "pushing" hydrogen for quite a while, which I think explains the Japanese manufacturers pursuing it and why Toyota especially has been so hesitant to jump on the BEV bandwagon. The BMW one doesn't really make sense to me either, they don't do anything heavy or industrial wise AFAIK and sounds like Europe is pretty set on BEV.
I'll admit I haven't looked into hydrogen much, but from what I've seen and the one review video I watched of a hydrogen car being tested in CA, it sounds like the energy input to make it and the infrastructure just doesn't work. But, could be FUD articles just like you see on BEV, honestly don't know. -
13 hours ago, silvrsvt said:
In the grand scheme of things when do things actually get cheaper? Only if you downsize or order less options. But there are so many variables with that too.
Lets put this way, I had this really cool indicator thing on my 1986 Escort GT
Never had a car again with it...did I miss it? Nope. Some of the stuff moved to the dashboard, but never had a brake/Tail light or Headlight out indicator ever again.
I seem to remember one of my dad's newer superduties telling you on the dash screen if a bulb was out, or maybe saying issue with trailer bulb. Might be making them up though. -
12 minutes ago, akirby said:
Obviously there is some part that’s only needed for parallel parking other than buttons. Plus not every vehicle has bluecruise.
Well, yeah obviously, if it's going to save money by deleting it. Was just curious on the how/why. -
Maybe I don't fully understand how it functions, but I'm wondering how deleting a feature that you already designed and uses cameras/sensors that need to be there for blue cruise/etc can save money? EPAS is already there, the cameras are already there, is there physical buttons for the system? and if so, why can't they just be moved to the screen??
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4 hours ago, akirby said:
Going to a 48V system is not necessarily “better” and it’s not new. It’s always been better from a wiring standpoint - smaller cheaper wires. But that also means new expensive 48V components that aren’t readily available yet or a lot of distributed converters, both of which negate at least some if not all of the cost advantage of the wiring. I assume Musk has committed to building a lot of the 48v components in house or working with suppliers and Ford is tagging along and I suspect other mfrs will follow based on expected higher volumes on EVs which are much easier to convert.
I imagine when we made the leap from 6v to 12v and generators to alternators there were naysayers too. Someone had to do it with how much electronics are on board every vehicle these days and Tesla had the balls to jump first. To be clear, I don't think Tesla invented 48v systems (and I understand some of their fanbois would believe that tesla invented a voltage, I joined a few cybertruck groups on facebook to learn more and believe me when I say there are some delusional people about Tesla) lol, but they are the first to implement it throughout the entire vehicle as far as I know. -
4 hours ago, ice-capades said:
Over the past 30-40 years, there's been a dramatic decline in the maintenance that can be performed by vehicle owners, let alone anything that's electronics related which is a lot. Dealership service technicians have to continuously take courses in order to keep up to date with all the technology and to maintain or upgrade their certified status with Ford. There's also been a dramatic decline in the number of independent technicians that can service modern vehicles due to the constantly evolving technology. For those independent technicians or "mechanics" there are fewer jobs available as the majority of the gas stations that provided vehicle service have been converted to convenience stores, eliminating their service bays.
I disagree, it's just a matter of learning a new way to do it and it involves hooking a computer up. Things are a lot easier to figure out and maintain now if you take the time to learn what the computer is telling you - it's way easier and less complex than using vacuum gauges/timing lights/reading plugs/changing jets/and essentially guessing if you understand what it's telling you. Youtube university will tell you how to do almost anything if you're repairing a stock vehicle.-
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44 minutes ago, akirby said:
Youre not buying a 10-15 yr old vehicle without all those electronics any more. You need a 77 F100 with a carburetor.
Going to have to go back a few more years to get to points, those have a scary electronic ignition system! ?-
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16 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:
5 years ago, Tesla was 10 years ahead of everyone else. Ford is behind, but catching up a lot faster than Tesla fans are willing to admit. I'm willing to bet t3 matches or exceeds CT in every category, better towing, better payload, better range, better styling, better reliability.
Tesla has some benefits, but let's be real, they're also a brand that doesn't respond well to criticism. I mean, how long have people been telling Tesla to get their shit together when it comes build quality and product launches, and they never listened.
Now Ford and Toyota, companies who actually know how to build a proper car, are gunning for Tesla. Will Tesla be able to hold them off for a few more years? Yeah. Will Tesla still be the standard in the electric car industry 20 years from now? Probably not.
For sure Ford is catching up and depending how fast the new products come I'd even say they're in a solid second place and/or best of the "legacy" brands, just seems like some around here have a hard time admitting when someone is doing it better than Ford right now and might have some better ideas. Tesla could take some pointers from Ford on trucks/commercial applications too, not out here being a blind fanboi of either, though I do like a lot of what both do. And I hope so on t3, was hoping CT would be the EV truck that fit my needs, but the more I look at it I don't think it's quite there for my use. Access to the super charging network should help too for Ford.
Come on now, you're on a Ford forum talking about another company not getting their shit together on build quality and product launches.... lol
20 years is a long time away and a lot can happen. Tesla has a huge lead on everyone else right now, but yeah I doubt they hold it indefinitely.. -
12 minutes ago, akirby said:
Oh please. There is nothing magic or revolutionary about a 48V electrical system. It just requires 48v accessories which were previously unavailable or expensive or the use of converters which can also be expensive. It’s easier for Tesla to commit to 48V power because of their vertically integrated manufacturing and smaller volume. As more mfrs go to 48V there will be more 48V 3rd party accessories which brings cost way down.
Some of you just blindly accept things without looking at the details.
Okay, I'll be over here watching Farley follow in Tesla's footsteps while some of you praise him but say Tesla didn't do anything new at the same time.-
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13 minutes ago, DeluxeStang said:
More like most of us respect some of what Tesla has done, but don't view them as this fantastic, flawless car company that's gonna put everyone else out of business in a few years. Tesla has really good software, and battery tech, as well as a stellar public charging system. They're pretty terrible just about everywhere else to be honest.
And hopefully can respect where Tesla is miles ahead and realize Ford is trying to catch up in certain areas without disregarding or trying to discredit every comment that mentions Tesla. It's clear some can't. There's a reason they're #1 in EV and making money doing it, and Farley says as much pretty often.-
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2 hours ago, Rick73 said:
I don’t believe we are talking about the same thing. I could be wrong though, just not aware of any manufacturer using 48V except for power which is very different application. Various European manufacturers started using 48V years ago but kept 12V at same time. Again, I could be wrong but not aware of any production vehicle prior to Cybertruck replacing all.12V with 48V.
Tesla is a bad word around here, even if you quote Farley saying they're going to follow Tesla's lead because they're more efficient in every aspect, from design to manufacturing to the end product.
I've seen some people claiming Mercedes did it first, but pretty sure most people are confusing mild hybrids that still step down to 12v for all the inside functions. -
52 minutes ago, tzach said:
LOL, please tell me what extra car will fit in the 9.5 inches gained by the Edge over the Explorer.
9.5 is pretty big depending on context-
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1 hour ago, jpd80 said:
While sales of most vehicles appear to be down at the moment, I think the issue with
Mustang Mach E is that for most buyers, there’s no compelling reason to want one.
No disrespect to the vehicle but it seems that Ford has thrown everything at Mach E
to make it desirable to buyers and still, the market seems indifferent.
So I’m stuck, does the problem lie with the vehicle or are buyers just not that into BEVs
or is it a bit of both?
At the Mach E vs Model Y level, the Ford just doesn't offer enough for someone to choose it over the Tesla and pay more for it unless they're a die hard Ford person or have an irrational hatred for Elon Musk. It almost matches most things, but falls a little short.. but who in their right mind would objectively pick it over the guys that have been doing it way longer when it's not substantially better in any category and pay more. If you're the new guy on the block and want to make things happen you need to leapfrog substantially to get someone's attention. It's like when Toyota/Nissan started getting into the half ton market. Ford is dipping their toes in but doesn't seem like they're fully committed. And I'd say the same about cybertruck compared to lightning - Tesla isn't fully committed to figuring out a truck buyer. IMO anyway. Hopefully we see some big improvements with the next gen of BEV out of Ford.
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I have no need or interest in a truck that small personally, but I knew it would be a hit when I saw it. It hits a sweet spot on affordability and capability while still being unique and pretty cool, it has a lot of people that would never look at a Ford looking.
Still think "passion" products is kind of misleading, like I said in the other thread.. there's plenty of people passionate about owning their boring ass Toyota/Honda sedan because it never lets them down and that's what matters to them. If "passion" means build something that people want to own for whatever reason, then uhh.. duh, you want people to want what you sell. Passion/commodity kind of falls apart if you change the rules to what it fits.
Not disagreeing or agreeing with either side of the on-going argument, just trying to think out what's been said to it's logical end. -
This definitely makes Ford's current EV offerings more appealing.
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15 minutes ago, Rick73 said:
In my son’s case, the Tesla 3 required a very small wall charger to be mounted in garage. He had to buy that charger separately (but wasn’t too expensive), which plugs into 50A, and operates at 32 Amps. It can also operate on 40A breaker I suppose. He also got a portable charger to leave in car in case he wanted to charge at my house by using an adaptor, or anywhere else in case of emergency. AFAIK, he hasn’t needed it. The home charger provides him over 20 miles of range per hour of charging, so car essentially remains topped off in garage by plugging overnight.
I’m not sure how other chargers install, because I’ve read that some permanently-installed chargers do not require a neutral. I honestly don’t recall if his portable unit can be used without a neutral by using an adaptor, but think it may work OK. I think the charger only uses 240 VAC, and no 120 VAC if I recall correctly, but not sure. Below is one Tesla recommendation. I’m aware some home chargers can now go above 50A (80A IIRC) but that’s probably overkill for most owners unless they drive a BEV that uses a lot of power/energy. An F-150 that towed daily (like lawn service truck), as example, may benefit from faster charging.
https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/downloads/en_CA/CA-EN_NEMA_14-50_Installation_Guide.pdf
From what I've learned "researching" the Lightning, it comes with the truck charge port on one end, 30a if I'm remembering correctly, and two pigtails that you can plug into it, either the 14-50 pictured or a standard 120 plug. There's an option for a higher amp charger as well that can go up to 80a. Amp numbers might be off, but it's something like that. From what I've gathered the lower amp one is intended to be mobile so you can charge anywhere while the bigger one is meant to stay where you charge.
Ford CEO Farley Regrets Not Tackling Quality Issues Sooner
in Ford Motor Company Discussion Forum
Posted
Interesting thought, but seems like a lot of overlap while not being as capable as ranger or as affordable as maverick. Not sure where it would fit in.