svtenthusiast
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Posts posted by svtenthusiast
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Taking the Blue I.V. out of my veins... I am a little concerned with Ford's future. Not meaning going out of business , but keeping their new customers and maintaining sales volume. Here's my opinion or should I say my experience. My last two new Ford's ( 2011 F-150 FX4 and 2014 Fusion Titanium) have been the worst I've ever owned. Both have been back to the dealer more than my previous 10 new Fords. Let's also not count my 2008 F250 6.4L because that also saw the dealer way too much and had quite a few recalls along with a oil leak they couldn't find or fix. My F-150 still has a driveline clunking issue that can't be fixed even when they had the truck for over a month. Being on F-150 forums this is a MAJOR problem even through the new 2013's. The Fusion rattles like a '89 Hyundai and has electrical glitches. Another HUGE problem will be with the EcoBoost engines. That's pretty much all they offer now and the vast majority of owners on forums and in public talk about how miserable their mileage is. Yes, driving habits make a difference, but even when we try to get close to the EPA figure, it doesn't happen. Even keeping up with traffic should net you pretty close, but I'm 6mpg off in my truck and the fusion is barely averaging the city claimed mpg with 60% freeway and 40% city driving (22mpg). Our Fusion which has been on three road trips has only managed 25 MPG on all highway runs with very little city driving. Mind you, this is keeping up with traffic in the fast lane so speeds vary between 68-80 mph. Our last Fusion with the 3.0L averaged 31.5 MPG going even faster around 75-85 mph on those trips. I wish they still offered that engine. These boosted motors do crap mpg wise with keeping up with traffic or being a little aggressive. Word of mouth is getting out to stay away from the EB unless you want great power, but crap MPG. Just this past weekend 4 people at the resort we were staying at complimented the car and asked about the engine. I didn't lie and once they heard what I said, they said "we've heard the same thing". This is the future engines which Ford is heading and has we worried. I will not buy another EB engine. They do nothing MPG wise with my driving style and I'm not alone. So if Ford doesn't offer non boosted power plants that make good power I'll be leaving.
Well said, sir. The last reliable Ford I owned was my 2010 Fusion, and the multitude of Fords that I owned before the Fusion I never had any major issues with. Both the european 2012 Focus and 2013 Escape I owned were terrible in reliability and funky in engineering/operation. Had to wait forever to get both of them because of quality delay issues, but they told me that was because they wanted "bug" free vehicles for their customers. They were in the shop more times then I could count and Ford's customer service was bottom of the barrel. Once I was rid of them I just couldn't justify supporting Ford any longer nor stomach another vehicle with MFT, so a lifetime Ford owner is gone. I may be back once they get out of this "one vehicle for all" phase, get rid of MFT, and start making vehicles designed and engineered to American tastes like the F-150 still is. You can tell where their bread and butter is and they won't mess that up.
My feelings are the same as yours about being unsure about Ford's future, especially now that Mullaly is gone. I have always felt Fields is very impersonal and "uppity" and may not connect with his people and the customers the same way Mullaly did. Secondly, I feel they put too many eggs in to the "one (european) Ford" basket, and went too strong on ecoboost. Like you said the fuel economy doesn't live up to the hype, my parents were getting better fuel economy in their v-6 edge than their 2.0 EB escape in the same driving cycles, and I have heard many stories of the same. Everything other than the old chassis that are still around are now european in electronics and styling. Everything is starting to look the same in styling and it's already getting old to me. Mustang now has heavy european influence, look at the height of the front edge of the hood. Also the reliability in electrical systems has tanked (we should of all known european electronics have never been reliable nor intuitive in operation). MFT has been a nightmare across the entire vehicle line and they are just now getting around to replacing the terrible back end of that system that they have been hacking at for 4 years. Almost died when I saw they were putting that MFT crap in the 2015 Mustang, hopefully the software can be upgraded to the new OS on the 2015 and later vehicles.
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Lincoln Motor Co has some work to do in the area of diagnostics, listening to customer discussion and feedback, and communicating with dealers.
Carlton
Amen.
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This article and many of the user comments are spot on.
1. Yes, the EPA rating process is flawed, especially with the new technologies like hybrid. They allowed them to rate the CMAX to "similar" vehicle (Fusion Hybrid). So Ford CHOSE to rate the same because they were ALLOWED but they did not have to. They decided to take a gamble for sake of advertising the CMAX and they lost.
2. The BSquare root of the problem still is biting them and their customers since the 2011 Edge. They should of started a full rewrite while making the current customer systems usable along time ago. The system will still continue with inherent flaws until they do so.
3. Botched launches continue: Focus had a 6 month delay and many DCT issues. Escape had delays and many recalls with customer vehicles that were newly delivered and then out of operation for lack of part supplies for months. Fusion had a recall on all headlamps, Ecoboost 1.6, and now gas tank issues. MKZ had huge delays, quality inspections, and now gas tank recalls. These are the high level items, there are daily communications concerning TSB's and service holds/announcements the dealers have to deal with that are frankly out of hand right now.
4. I think we can stop making excuses at this point and admit that Ford has bit off more than they can chew in both technology (MyFord touch primary) and chassis (EU platforms). If they keep plowing ahead and relishing in their profit, it will come back full circle to failure. all the customers you have drawn in by the do dads and designs will not make the same mistake twice and take their business elsewhere next time. Couple this with customer service practices that are inconsistent at best.
Ford is addressing every one of these issues.1 - applies ONLY to the C-Max; it is hardly a company-wide issue. And, in fact, the C-Max's new FE rating is within decimal points of what is being reported in aggregate on Fuelly, a website that you--among others--consider to be more definitive than the EPA's rigorous and scientific methodology.
2 - Ford screwed up when they hired Bsquare in 2008 or whenever. They've since been replaced and will not be developing new products for Ford. Ford has also moved to continue to improve this product. What more do you expect them to do? Rush a replacement product into service that will likely have significant issues because you cut corners to get it released?
3 - Yes Ford had launch issues. In 2012 and 2011. Are these -ongoing- issues? Really? Isn't it more likely that Ford screwed up when they estimated the cost & time required to adapt EU platforms for NA assembly? And if that's the case, then when is Ford going to bring over another engineered-in-EU platform for NA assembly?
To sum: Ford has made some missteps, but I can't find evidence that they are -doubling down- on those missteps. They are not using Bsquare to develop the next generation of MFT. They are not continuing to bring over platforms from, basically, other companies and install them in radically overhauled facilities.
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Oh yea, another item I came across. The "passive memory seat entry" has been deleted from late build 13's and 14 model year.
This feature recalls the seat position depending on the driver that unlocks the vehicle with their fob.
Have no idea why this would be deleted, can't be monetary value since it was already in place. Must of been something that didn't work quite right that was easier to delete, because you know, no one would notice.
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Yep, your experience with customer service matches mine and you are driving a Lincoln!
Much like yourself, I have been a lifetime loyal customer and owned many of their vehicles over the years. I will not be giving them any further business, nor referrals that have sold them 6-10 more vehicles over the years.
Even if they did have desirable vehicles, if they don't practice good customer service, goodbye!
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How about a better fuel tracker site with more than one or two vehicles reporting real world mileage: http://www.fuelly.com/car/ford/escape
Only .5 to 1 MPG better than the old generation Escape.
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We get it. You don't like your Escape and you think everyone else in the world has exactly the same opinions as you.
Thanks for sharing.
We get it. You don't like anyone in a (public) forum speak from personal real world experiences that may not match other peoples view of Ford through rose colored glasses.
The consistent mantra around here to convolute a civil conversation into a personal attack regarding someone's opinion because it's against FMC is irrational, immature, and tiring.
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its Actually 16.5 Gallons....so its roughly a gallon difference between the two...not as earth shattering as you make it out to be...you can go an extra 20-30 miles...big deal
Sigh.....so I have to take the time to sinp it out of the 2012 owners manual.........it's 17.5 gallons. 15.1 vs. 17.5 is 2.4 gallons. That's an extra day driving to/from work for me. And then add the very conservative fuel gauge/low fuel light that comes on after burning about 12 gallons of gas, it's less than ideal.
Point is real world fuel economy between EB's and the previous 4 cylinder and V-6 combined is almost exactly the same between a 2012 and 2013. Yes, the 2013 has more potential but the EB has more potential to react greatly to different driving styles.
And there is no excuse why the Escape has a smaller tank than a Fusion (16.5 FWD, 17.5 AWD), it's a SUV with the same available engines.
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Its exactly the same size as the las gen Escape and as my Mustang
Nope. The previous gen Escape had a 17.5 gallon fuel tank, big difference in range with almost the same real world MPG.
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If it's making them money hand over fist (I can't see how it couldn't be) then it certainly is. It's not like it will just remain basically as-is for a decade-plus like the last generation did either. The entire point of going to a global architecture was to lower costs of future developments, which should allow changes to be adopted far more quickly.
Just because you are making money currently is a very dangerous business plan, especially when you are turning off current customers and you don't realize they have gone elsewhere when profits and sales are down in a few years. Very short sided and short term there, they have been there before. Bigger profits/de-contenting/sub-par product do not equal satisfied and repeat customers.
You have to listen to your customers, change product and processes to their needs, be innovative, be reliable, create value for the money to consistently be a class leading organization with class leading products.
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I'm now looking at the new Jeep Grand Cherokee as a replacement vehicle. They have a great idea in their UConnect system as the gps can easily be added at any time afterwards in less than an hour and for a reasonable perice compared to other nav systems. This is how Ford should have handled it and avoided the MTF issues.
I too looked at the UConnect system in the new JGC and was thoroughly impressed. Nice to push buttons and they respond fast and consistently. Navigation was very intuitive and straightforward.
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I like the Escape in concept: small SUV with nice exterior styling and available technology if you want to pay for it, nice handling for a SUV, neat powered and kick to open liftgate (barring separate glass opening is missed)
That being said, I agree that the vehicle is full of compromises--made by the fact that it's distributed as a "world" vehicle.
- Cargo area is tighter than the previous model and also not as tall in the tailgate opening
- No cubbies to store loose items near the driver (like a cell phone), console is like a black hole--it's deep but no use when you have to dig with something, they didn't even put a light in there
- Still don't see the benefit of the opposing windshield wipers and they have screwed up on me a few times--why the complexity needed with separate motors, sync logic, etc?
- EB gas mileage has not been met on a regular basis through 20K miles even though I run all highway, flat roads, keeping under 62 MPH, run cruise, turn off A/C on mild days, no extra cargo, correct air pressure on tires, coasting to lights, moderate acceleration. Been able to meet or exceed EPA in all previous Ford vehicles I have owned. Compounded by frustration with the peanut sized gas tank, 15 gallons is smaller than the Fusion's. 2013 Escape the same real world combined gas mileage as pre 2012 Escape as verified on Fuelly.com
- MyFord touch--added frustration, need I say more
- No instant MPG readouts like most all other Ford vehicles, no way to adjust operation of features like other Ford vehicles
- Controls, displays, telematics, operation/engineering are not typical of a Ford USA vehicle. Wrong information in the owner's manual as Ford USA tries to translate Kuga information for the US market. 5 revisions of the owner's manual and still not accurate. Frustration ensues, typical Ford customers don't appreciate changes in controls when owning multiple Ford vehicles.
- Squeaks, rattles, break squeal, build quality issues, inconsistent quality of interior plastics, junk Continental tires (can't believe they went with this brand after all the GEN1 escape chopping tire issues)
Again, like others have said, just an overall average vehicle with competition overtaking them within 1 year of introduction. Because it wasn't innovative nor ground breaking from day 1. Even though the EB motor is frustrating on the MPG, it's my favorite part of the vehicle because everything else about it is average or below. Then they go and de-content it and raise the price in 2014. (see my thread in the Escape section) It's not a winning nor class leading plan unfortunately.
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They most likely deleted the rain sensing wipers in 2013 as they didn't work worth a darn on the 2012. But they do work alot better on my 2013 Escape so I am not sure why they didn't put the effort into keeping these as an option at least on the 2014 model.
I can't fathom why they would delete the garage door opener or the auto dimming mirror as they had nothing to do with the rain sensing wipers. They are loosing to the competition and their own product if the Fiesta and other's offer these very useful features.
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Ford is getting back to the practices when the bean counters ran the product into the ground in the late 90's/early 00's.
Was at the dealer today and noticed on the 2014 Escape Titanium the "new" standard leather seats are in reality the flat, plain, SEL seats from the 2013 model.
I guess no SEL model for 2014 means use up the old SEL seats and get rid of the nice sport bucket seats that used to be one of the nice differentiation factors in the Titanium model.
Also of course it had the cheap, cut off exhaust tips instead of the rolled ones, they started doing these late in the 2013 model.
HID headlamps are no longer standard, they are part of a $1,735 package. They then charge $1,195 for the 2.0 ecoboost that was standard, $595 for the wheels that were standard, $145 for the roof bars that were standard and $135 for the tonnau cover that was standard. Total was $37,475.
All I could do was laugh and shake my head....it's amazing the people making these stupid decisions think no one is going to notice, and the people that don't----it's a shame they are getting the wool pulled over their eyes.
Then they have the audacity to raise the price of the vehicle, you know because it's got "standard" leather now. If you want to call those vinyl boards leather. On a $37,000 vehicle.
Really stupid, and really greedy Ford.
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Point is that it's a cheap convenience and safety supplement to give the driver, especially in colder winter climates. On top of that it's written in the owners manual up to at least the third printing, it's misleading to both the operation of the vehicle and an advertised feature. They should be embarrassed they still haven't managed to take it out of the manual, and even their own service message is incorrect about the manual printings.
How it was not included was most likely a last minute cost cutting measure or a programming issue. They had the same trouble with the 2012 Focus that in fact had the sensor, but would not display the message. Ford finally came out with a TSB half a year later.
For a vehicle that can cost well into the 30K range, I would expect this would be a simple feature to provide. Ford is terrible about inconsistencies in features between model lines, and they need to get it together.
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I'm sorry to hear about your problems.
A question though, are you dealing with any dealership issues with getting the problems fixed?? A poor dealership can destroy the ownership experience.
Hopefully your issues get fixed.
Thanks for the note. I don't have any major issues with what the dealer has been doing, mostly it falls on Ford giving them the proper instructions, support, and engineering resolution, which Ford has failed to do. Ford has also failed to communicate properly with me, I couldn't even get them to answer my voicemails. I think they are afraid to get on the phone because they know they have zero answers.
I think some of it has to do with the vehicle being so new. The engineers don't have any fixes or information to give until enough complaints come in and they engineer the "fix". That's what I have been caught up in owning both a Focus and Escape that are both Job 1 vehicles and are also "world engineered", I feel like a "beta" tester and that's not appropriate when you are spending over 30K on a vehicle you rely on to get back and forth to make your living everyday. Too many varaibles and mis steps forming these "world vehicles" for the NA market, and not the Ford and the vehicles I used to know. Add in old fashioned, poor customer service practices at the corporate level and the MFT debacle and it's a recipie for disaster for customer satification and retention.
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Not only has Ford lost it's quality edge but also it's focus....
That GD transmission in the $27,000 2012 Focus Titanium cannot be fixed after repeated trips to the dealer. Contant lagging, bogging and clunking and sometimes it won't move at all which is especially disheartning when you are trying to make a left turn across oncoming traffic. That POS had to go!
So there is a flawless new Honda Civic EX coupe parked in the garage now... Along with a brand new Honda lawn mower to replace that POS 2year old Craftsman mower that has to be contantly repaired.
I never thought I'd see the day we would turn away from Ford... But it happened and Ford can go suck it!
I had a Focus Titanium also and the trans sucked too, that vehicle was bought back and I replaced it with a 2013 Escape. Well, the Escape has many issues and engineering flaws just like the Focus....fool me twice.
Needless to say, like you, with the two lemon Fords that I have delt with the past 3 years, life is too short to be upset, stressed, inconvienienced and dealing with Ford's lame duck customer service practices.
Once the 2013 Escape is settled and out of my hair, I will no longer be a lifelong Ford customer. Amazing they could manage to drive a "bleed ford blue" loyalist out the door, and with the way they have handled it even though my loyality, they sure seem like they could care less.
So I have the power to no longer give them my business.
To the original intent of this thread---yes, Ford has lost their quality edge---I have experienced it first hand in the last two Ford vehicles I may ever own, after owning 18 of them with no major issues.
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It's probably the battery cooling electric water pump.
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They will turn off after about 10-15 minutes.
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No, TSB's are not completed unless a customer comes in with an issue that is covered by the TSB. Recalls on the other hand are required to be completed before it is sold.
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CR will never rate a a Ford with MFT as OK. I think it is just too geeky for a family car. I have personally loved MFT in my 2010 Fusion Hybrid, with no problems until the week I traded for a 2013 Fusion Hybrid ( it got even by frying an MP3 memory stick)! I use all functions on my 2013 Fusion Hybrid MFT: no problems, but too soon to judge long-term. I am old, but a nerdy geek, so MFT seems natural to me.
The 2010 Fusion had the Clarion based system, before Ford came out with MFT. I agree the older system I had zero problems with also.
Just don't get your hopes up too quick about MFT, you will be wishing you had the old Clarion system back, I sure did. They are sill using that system in the Mustang (soon to go to MFT unfortunately).
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I think you must have the worst luck with the new Escape....
Yep, and I haven't even posted the saga for the past few months---I will be parting ways with this vehicle soon. Very disappointed in Ford's new "world car" engineering practices and associated reliability. Also, customer support of these vehicles when you have an issue have been horrendus, Ford USA engineering doesn't have a clue how to fix these problems because of the newness and european bias electronics/operations, which leaves dealers and their technicians helpless and uninformed. Ford regional customer service managers are rude, unresponsive (even to their own dealers), and accusatory.
In my opinion, another low point in Ford Motor Company history on select vehicles and MFT across the board.
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I noticed the red info light blinking after locking the vehicle with the inside door lock button, and I never notice it before the instrument cluster TSB software update. I did see it in the past after the vehicle was closed and the alarm "armed" itself, but now it blinks immediately.
I had a scenario where I locked the vehicle with the inside door lock button, then changed my mind and hit the unlock button and closed the vehicle. The next time I opened the door, the IP cluster started chiming (without a message) and then the vehicle's alarm started going off.
There is definanly something wierd with the latest TSB updates, another item to add to the list.
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They never left me on the side of the road like my 2013 Escape has.
Two new recalls
in Escape & Kuga Forum
Posted · Edited by svtenthusiast
Between all the engineering quirks/supplier issues, the troublesome fire breathing EB 1.6, the over rated fuel economy, MyFord touch, and the sheer quantity of recalls on the new generation of the Escape it's amazing they are selling this well.
I'm glad to be rid of mine.