gunnut69

damn i have to go in the hospital for a week and everything falls apart,shit.well of course youre right rc they gauranteed the product not the demand for it. everyone should remember that this is the auto industry after all and it is volatile.anyone who hired in expecting to not get laid off,that there wouldnt be hard times was fooling themselves and themselves only.i guess the bright side if there is one is that this wasnt part of some threat from the company,some demand for more concessions.this is beyond their control and ours and when fuel prices come back around to reason we will likely be busier than ever

thanx for your permission,i feel better now. i didnt mean that trimding had things to teach you. you missed the poiint entirely.that didnt surprise me though. you have a good day too.im about to head out to a derby party and get totally,and utterly fucked up......again.

now i see how you have gotten so unpopular round here. i wasnt really aware of that. i dont really care about it either. odd thing is,this post is true. everything you have said,the facts,are true.

please provide any and all guidelines you you would like me to follow,and i will happily disregard them. having said that i was ...thinking some of his comments to me were kind of,well ,ridiculous.maybe he kept saying all that so i would quote him and thereby annoy you,somehow.thats good to know,if that is the case and i will keep that in mind.. if you only talk to or listen to people who you agree with,people whose opinions you are comfortable with......how do you ever learn anything?not necessarily directly from said person but from at least some consideration of opposing ideas.oh well,good luck with your contract.i wish my canadian brothers nothing but the best.

yep,a realist has to expect a big old fashioned layoff is right around the corner.i hope im wrong.

i think so too. i just wonder what they are gonna want to change along with it.if its true that "the company wouldnt agree to anything that didnt include bid team leaders ",like i was told,they surely wont just omit that part and leave the rest the same.

i agree with ya bro.

i never said it was fair. i said i was against it,remember?i had full pay after 2 years.no resentment.if they truly dont think its fair,they dont have to take the job. my bet is people will still line up for it though. i agree with what you said about equality and all,but you seem a bit dramatic with all this,really. the argument could be made that without entry level there would be no new hires.if that is the case,were they wronged???they will be fully informed of pay and benefits before accepting the job,is what it boils down to. there will be plenty of takers. there will be a lot more turnover as well,which will be a good leverage point for OVERTURNING THE ENTRY WAGE BULLSHIT.til then whats done is done,fair or not.

trimding,first off i didnt vote to accept the contract.i was criticised around here for saying it was a bad deal,but whats done is done. maybe the new hires will be grateful for the opportunity the entry level wage will present to them.it looks like a raw deal to us but if it wasnt better than what they have they wont be taking it anyway,right?how many jobs offer a conventional pension anymore? how secure is ours really? when,if,ford makes it back to profitability the entry level wage will be the first thing to go,at least i hope so.til then we live to fight another day. hopefully that day will come.

they cannot be more than 20%,and as such will never be a majority.i know,that could change in future agreements. heres the thing,either the company will turn around and then entry level will be the first thing to go or............well if the company doesnt turn around entry level wages will be a non-issue.

fords profits rely on trucks and suvs in the us.sales are falling,for obvious reasons.toyotas small cars are profitable.ford builds these cars,some at a loss,to offset govt. imposed mpg regs,and because to be taken seriously,they must be a "full line manufacturer". ford is able to bring other vehicles to market in europe,diesel vehicles with great mpg but that could never pass us emission requirements.note that the latest wave of diesel emission regs. have killed the mileage in all new diesel vehicles in the us,even semis.

dont know about ohio,but in ky. unemployment cant cut you off for refusing work unless its comparable pay. there arent any comparable paying jobs out there,at least none that are hiring.

i noticed that harbor house had the ktp bed. or,more accurately,that was pointed out to me by one of the lap guys. i went to the race to see the legendary match up between ktp and lap.still was a good time anyway.

agreed about ciwg. i think the company just wanted to cut the ot. the speed bump and the stamp machine were mike stewarts ideas,and in no way relevant,as far as i can see. team members have very little power,actually.just about the only thing you have is voting in the leader of your choice.should we give that up because the rest has already been taken?i dont think so.

bet you wont expect this: youre right!! things are getting better. scott was able to sway me over to his side,in person.that and some stuff allen did.so.....sorry about jumpin yer ass that time,i shouldnt have done that. long live ktp,and its elected team leaders

at ktp a team leader does repairs,gives bathroom breaks,hands out checks, and calls for maintenance when needed,notifying the super. of possible down time.thats all a good team leader notifies management of even though they want a whole lot more(who is in the bathroom,who is running late,etc.) a team leader does not schedule days off or anything else.noone ever said they do. i cant comment on what happens at lap,i have never set foot in there except for on a tour. you will notice that most posters that actually work at ktp like the process the way it is.so much so that the contract was rejected. i would never say that lap should do it like we do.honestly i couldnt care less how its done at lap.if they like the way they do it over there thats good enough for me.we like the way we do it at ktp,and i dont know why so many lap people think its an issue for them, unless its lap upgraders who fear that they would never be elected were the ktp system imposed on them. if that is the case,well,that should tell ya something.

as you know,i wasnt initially for scott at election time.i did end up voting for him,and i think it was the right choicel. he will make mistakes,anyone will,and he does need to know we are watching(im sure he does). i have been assured this will be handled,which is good.at the same time it begs the question; why was it there to begin with? could it be a diversionary tactic???? nah thats just my paranoia again. the rest of the deal seems good.wonder what the company will want to take out along with the team leader provision?

hey driveshaft,are u a carpenter? cuz u hit the nail right on the head!!!sorry i couldnt resist lol

by the way,its clique,not click. if a clique is a majority.......................is it still a clique? or is it just a majority? anyway,you dont have any idea.you dont even work there.

the members of each team vote for the team leader.no management votes. it does have rough spots now and then but its not union against union and overall works very well for us.notice most if not all opposition is voiced from outside ktp.

i was there around 4:00 and word was 250 production had showed up

no a team leader cant stop an r&w,if the super is dead set on writing one,(neither can a commiteeman)but they can sometimes help talk them out of it,if they try,ive seen it done.. im saying an elected t.l. should at least try. mine does,every time,and usually succeeds.believe it or not. getting days off for you? no not oaks day,but it happens all the time,because there are lots of xtras,and the team leader will try.not after you already awol(in most cases),i never said that,im talking about on the front end. soulja,i agree with everything you said.i guess i have a much better team leader than you do is all.

yes,the team leader is to contain defects before they leave the team.team leaders are doing well at this under the existing system.noone has brought this up as something that isnt being done.when they can they will let you go take a piss.so what?when abuses come up they are dealt with.they should be. the team leader is an advocate for the team in other areas because he is elected.at least he should be.if you dont think so, maybe youre a supervisor?or a supervisor wannabe?who knows,who cares?that is the type of team leader the election process weeds out (the wannabes). yes this is and has been done differently than at lap.so what?should everything be made just like lap? i guess the better question is.....why was it even a contract issue????????

you act like team leaders are constantly being voted out and railed against. ive never heard of a team leader being voted out,except when his term was up.i have the best team leader in the plant right now,and i have had some other good ones too,only had 1 real bad one,and none of them would have won the bid process.noone can please everyone all the time,and everyone knows that.yes sometimes people get pissed off,but thats part of working at ford,and team leaders dont get booted just because someone got mad.ive never seen it anyway. a good team leader takes care of his team. he can help you get covered for days you need off. he is your first and best hedge against a write up,when a super. is on the war path.he can and does do a lot for his team,because they elected him.if it is a bid job,he may not even know the people on his team,and theres no way thats better for the team. the bottom line is this: the process we have now is working fine,why change it? it would be different if team leaders were talking about how unfair the process is,or if anyone were for that matter. fact is noone is really displeased with it,except,apparently, the company. i like the contract,except for the team leader deal. im voting no.

i drive my v-10 f-250 as little as possible these days,only making the 55 mile round trip to work in it when thats my only option,which is rare.i used to drive it every friday.theres still several in the parking lot at ktp but just like every other aspect of that place,its not like it used to be.