povertyknob
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Posts posted by povertyknob
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On 5/24/2019 at 9:12 PM, pnewby said:
When will they hit the dealers? Interested in the ST. Any ideas on EPA ratings.
It's not exactly apples to apples , but the brochure for the 2019 Continental shows 16/24/19 for the 400hp/400lb-ft engine. The Explorer is roughly 100 pounds heavier.
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You guys need to clean this up. I know it's a contract year and everyone is a little on edge, but customers can and do read these forums and i'd rather they didn't get the impression we were all neanderthals. Complaining is one thing but some of the language is offensive. Thanks.
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"Standard" Garage is 12x20 at a minimum
SuperCab Ranger is almost 17 feet and a 6ft bed Standard cab F-150 just under 18 feet....tight...but it will still fit...
Standard cab won't work for me. There are times when I'll carry four adults,a baby carrier , and a dog. My 2005 F 150 Super Cab fit in my garage just fine. The new ones...not so much. when Ford cancelled the Ranger and Sport Trac programs they also effectively stretched the F 150 by a foot by eliminating the 5 1/2 foot bed as an option. I assume they didn't sell too many in that configuration, but that was before they cancelled the "compact" trucks.Hopefully they'll consider offering that configuration for 2015.
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The keys are fuel economy and price. A small pickup only makes sense if it is significantly lower in price than a half ton, and gets substantially better fuel economy (target 28 to 30 mpg combined). If a small pickup is burdened with too many cab and bed configurations and is loaded up with all of the bells and whistles of a top end half ton it will be a non starter because of price and fuel economy being near that of a half ton pickup.
You make an excellent argument against building another compact pick-up truck and I can't disagree with a word of it. I find myself in the apparently very small minority of buyers who love everything about the F-150 except the ever growing footprint. I'll hold on to my Sport Trac until the new F-150 debuts in 2015 , but if Ford can't find it in their hearts to make the Super Cab in a configuration that isn't a foot or so shorter I'll have to consider the CanyonColorado. For a guy that spent 40 years working for Ford that;s going to be a hard thing to do.
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People who bought Ranger went to other vehicle because smaller truck were neglected by most manufacturer compared to full-sized one, and thus offer no real advantage and less capability.>
Bring a real, all new compact truck to the market, which is not a 'compromise' like the old Ranger or others, with good fuel economy and plenty of configuration choice like an F150... And I'd bet the market will grow back.
I'd be delighted to replace my Sporttrac with a new T-6 Ranger if it were available. It's the perfect size for my needs with ideal power and off road capability. I hope Ford can make a business case for making it available here soon. In the meantime, they could make the F-150 I want a full foot shorter by offering the Super Cab with the 5 1/2 foot bed and short wheelbase.
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I retired in 2008 but have not turned 62 yet....hearing that under the latest contract we no longer get the payments...$18000.00 taken away from retirees turning 62....and we couldn't even have a vote.
Go to Myfordbenefits.com and click on "pension". Then click on "payment information" and "payment amounts". That will tell you exactly how long your supplement payments are going to continue. You may not like what you see,but at least you'll know.
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I read that GM kept their coverage for their 62 year olds....what is the UAW doing?
I retired under the previous contract in 2008,turned 62 a year ago, and I've continued to receive the supplement for nearly a year now. I've received my last supplement since I'm old enough to draw 80% of my social security as of two weeks ago. I'm not sure what happens to those who've retired since the last contract. I went to the Ford Fanatics Forum for more info and found that I had actually posed the same question over there several months ago after reading a similar rumor on BON. I couldn't get an answer there or from reading the contract highlights. It would be a good idea to make a phone call if you're considering retirement.
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LOL, I just hope Ford follows theoldwizzards suggestion of merging F150 and F250 (F200) and sell T6 in the US as F100,
there's a lot of spin and BS going on atm, with plants closing Ford can't be seen to be going back on its word but I pray
that they do find a way to make space for T6, it's a great truck.
I had the pleasure of driving a new T6 dual cab with I-5 auto, holy cripes, 350 lb ft under the hammer, went like stink...
It's too bad it will "only" wade through 30 inches of standing water....otherwise I'd be tempted to fly over there, buy one, and drive it home!
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F150 styleside with 6.5' tray - 213"
It's not the difference to T6 that concern Ford, it's the overlap with F150, they don't want to
substitute one product for another especially when T6 has less profit attached to it...
But I did reference "comparable" vehicles. Personally, I don't want a regular cab truck. I frequently need to carry more than three people. And I like to have a truck with a nice option package. Neither of those is possible with the regular cab F-150. The regular cab T-6 is nearly the same size as the regular cab F-150.....but the SC/CC F-150 is 21 inches longer than the T-6 Crew Cab. Sure, the T-6 that I'd buy is 90% the size of a comparable F 150, but that 21 inches is significant when you're pulling into a garage. The wheelbase on the T 6 Crew cab is also shorter than the F-150 SC/CC, making it more maneuverable. I realize it may not be profitable to bring the T-6 to the U.S. market at this time and I'm not suggesting they do so. I was just sort of wondering what that vehicle that was 90% the size of the F 150 would look like.
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The 2012 F 150 SC and CC are both 231.9 inches long according to the dimensions I'm seeing. A comparable T-6 Crew Cab is 211 inches long. While that does work out to 90%, that extra 21 inches makes a lot of difference if you'd like to pull it into a garage and close the door.
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You seem to forget that the retirees gave MANY times during their years as active members!! Many times!!! They fought for the benefits you enjoy today!!!! Look at the union now--check out how much they are getting with this.My understanding is that they get double retirements!!! Is that fair to anyone?!?!?! Remember the ones who fought for us---REMEMBER them and fight for them the way they fought for you!!!! You better hope someone is behind us to fight for us too!!!!
I'm not forgetting a darned thing. I've been retired for 3 1/2 years after putting in 40 years at Ford in assembly. and later as a tradesman. I'm hoping active employees will look at the big picture and do what's necessary to get every Ford worker recalled and every tradesperson back on his/her tools.That means some people are going to have to vote yes on something they probably find a little distasteful...but for the greater good. If all I have to give up is a "Christmas" bonus that's a small price to pay to be part of the solution instead of part of the problem. I do appreciate that the thoughts of some of you are with the retirees and i want to say "Thanks for your support".
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Are we looking at an internal power play, Walkowitz seeking controversy to strengthen his standing with disaffected rank and file?
Chicken and egg,,,Are they disaffected because he's causing controversy.....or is he causing controversy to gain standing? Either way he's in it for #1.
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The ONLY reason ford did not need a bailout is because they mortgaged everything before the collapse if the economy and had cash. Either luck or brilliance on Mulally's part. It's debatable.
I was answering a question from Deanh -not stating my own belief. Some folks in the UAW understand the situation. Others are willfully ignorant.
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question, and nothing inflamatory.....why does the UAW feel they deserve more from Ford than GM and Chrysler?.....
The hourly folks feel like they were part of the reason Ford didn't have to take a bailout.You can disagree with that-and I do, but that's their reasoning. What's mind boggling is that Ford agreed to give them more than GM and there is still such a groundswell of no votes.I'm not sure when the IUAW lost the trust of the rank and file but it makes it pretty easy for agitators to stir things up.When the International called the plant reps to Detroit they should have made it damned clear that this was as good as it was going to get and required every plant chairman to indicate that he/she understood. That there is such resistance to what seems like a reasonable contract kind of takes the United out of UAW.
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agreed....I remember the initial chestbumping postering....I thought to myself...you have GOT to be kidding me...hasnt worked out too well has it...no academy award here gents, the "acting" was un-necessary, illguided and mis-placed....I beleive, if anything hes done his members an in-justice, ford played nice, sutures will be needed to close the gunshot wound in the foot...
I'm not a bob king fan boy at all. His rhetoric was unnecessary and inflammatory. But he and the IUAW negotiators sat down and hammered out a contract that should be good for both the company and the union, took it to the membership, and asked them to vote it in. From that point forward the flames have been fanned not by King but by dissidents within the UAW. It will take a heck of an effort for the IUAW to calm down the boys with the pitchforks.
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How can we expect active employees to agree to a contract they're not happy with if the retirees aren't willing to give a little? The active employees are faced with a questionable contract that many are considering signing for the common good. We need to help.
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Understand that coming on to this sit and personally bashing each other is not helping our cause. People have the right to their opinions. Hopefully they will start to think about the time in which we currently live. The most our IUAW could possibly extract from the company for penance of our sacrificed concessions would be JOBS. Nothing outweighs this fact.
In 2003 we had 101k UAW Ford Workers and we now have 41k. That’s the derivative of the old formula. In 2009 we accepted concessions to do what? Save the company we work for and to save our Union jobs. We have done just that, we have also turned the tide of losing our jobs. We have the opportunity to add jobs and to bring back product back from offshore.
So, what’s the real bottom line? I have to ask because I have spoken to folks that are upset that the 2nd tier worker would receive a pay increase and not the 1st tier, yet the very same person was upset that the 2nd tier wasn’t at parity. I have talked to folks that are upset at the VEBA getting 10% (off the top) from our profit sharing, and yet two minutes later complain that they are scared that the VEBA won’t last. I know what you’re thinking, and trust me I was at the same quandary in making sense of them statements. People are upset just because they have a right to be upset. They have lost faith and they have little to no trust left. By adding jobs for our brothers and sisters, by returning product from offshore, the IUAW has restored my faith in the true meaning of Union.
We look good in the public’s eye, we are gaining market share and we are about to start putting on jobs for people that are in much need of work. We need numbers, numbers cost the most, and we need to keep on target with public view and market share. For the first time since 1980 our hour glass of losing UAW Auto worker jobs has been flipped from nearing empty. It’s up to us to look at this contract for what it really is and for its real worth to us as a whole.
Many plants gained product because we as a Union and as a whole accepted the 2007 agreement along the mods. Here’s just a few of them that reaped the benefits of our sacrifices and received product commitments. I’m not complaining, its awesome that we did what we needed to, I’m just saying.
– Chicago Assembly Plant
– Kansas City Assembly Plant
– Louisville Assembly Plant
– Michigan Assembly Plant
– Ohio Assembly Plant
It’s going to be very interesting to see if they vote to save other Union brothers and sisters jobs at other plants as was done for them.
Be Good
Jeff Hodges
Local 600
Dearborn Stamping & DTP Body
Vice President & Bargaining Representative
For the life of me i cannot understand why some members refuse to take a longer term view. People are unhappy about what has been given up,i get that. But until Ford pays off a lot more of it's debt those things aren't coming back..if ever.Let's get more jobs back to the U.S. and employ more Americans. Bring everyone back from layoff. Then there's leverage to bargain.
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they are losing money. Comeon son read.
I'm 62 years old and retired from Ford...so you must be a real geezer to call me "son". How much money are we talking about,really? A Christmas bonus? I couldn't expect active workers to give up anything if I'm not willing to take a little hit. Exactly how much is it?
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I think that's way more likely than either side pulling the pin right away. Ford may be willing to make some minor changes but all they'll be doing is moving some money from one pot to the other and if that's the case you have to question if it's really worth it. But if that's all it takes to swing a few votes then it would probably happen.
I really think at some point if the UAW leadership and Ford agree to a contract the members either work under that contract or they can leave and get replaced by someone who will. I understand why they want the members to ratify it - to keep the UAW leadership from selling them out - but at some point they need to acknowledge that the UAW negotiators know what they're doing.
While Mr. King may have used poor judgement with his complaining about Mullaly's compensation earlier this summer , I don't see him (King) as the problem right now. There are dissidents within the UAW-mostly at plants that have plenty of work-doing a lot of rabble rousing at the moment..It's almost like they're trying to pick apart every line of the contract and one wonders if their intent is to discredit Bob King. I was discussing the contract on a forum with a seemingly bright fellow, and I kid you not.....I got the impression he felt like a no vote was his way of standing up for"truth, justice and the American way"...
As to trusting the negotiators, I think the dissident faction may have poisoned the well on that one too.FWIW there is such an enormous gap between the perceived realities of the 'yes' and "no " factions that it could cause some real problems in the UAW going forward.
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I can appreciate your honesty,voting is not only an honor it is a responsability.How do the younger members think we got to the pay level we are currently at? The older members (the retirees that the company and union are trying to f***) stood strong and steady. The company and our weakass union leaders are counting on a weak membership.So I agree with you,DON'T BE BULLIED AND STAND STRONG AND FIGHT FOR WHAT IS RIGHT AND FAIR FOR OUR HARD WORKING MEMBERS WHO HAVE ALREADY SACRIFICED SO MUCH!!!!!
How are retirees getting harmed in the tentative contract?
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maybe the public would be interested in what the top 10 salary people make at ford, mulally? maybe they want to see the profit on an f-150? maybe they want to know why low tier workers get $3.50 hr raise? or what all the salary people got back? whats going to stop the company from opening the contract again and taking away more, surely our uaw will allow this, they have in the past. you know taking a stand for what is right is NEVER easy! it's not only for us now it's for future generations!
By and large the public doesn't resent Mulally more than any other millionaire. They care about the markup on the F-150 in terms of monthly payments rather than whether we're entitled to more of it. Every time Ford hires lower tier workers there are literally hundreds of people standing in line for applications, so that's not going to generate any sympathy for the UAW. What's to stop the Company from opening up any new contract they might agree to if they are forced back to the table? I wish I were amongst those who felt going back to the table would give workers a better deal. My thought is that whatever they give you in one area will be taken back in another.In four years there is a very good chance Ford's balance sheet will look a lot different. You can be assured that every time the UAW negotiators pointed out Fords recent profits the guys on the Company side pointed at the billions in remaining debt. It's never a bad idea to stand up for what you believe is right. I'd prefer to do it when the UAW has better leverage.
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"babbling bullshit" is very accurate. And coming from someone with your credentials is meaningful. As I see it, as is usually the case, the sensible people are not active enough at the plant level so who gets elected as local leadership? The ones who promise the world and forget exactly what is happening to their industry.
A lot of posters have raised the thought about the negative vibes this contract creates for the buying public. If you think Hondas, Hyundis, and Toyota's are better built, does the negativity being created by these dissatisfied workers make me feel better about Ford- I don't think so.
And by the way, My Explorer, my Ranger, and my SHO still have the "Built with P{ride" Ford/UAW stickers on them. I think I might take it off the SHO however. There is no pride in Chicago-only stupidity.
We can only hope the sensible UAW members can rise to the top. Someone said it best with words to the effect-..."Would Ford be worse off without Mulaly or Bill Jr. or the likes of "Spacedude"?
One other thought- If I were Mulaly I would not have taken the big bonus. Only because I would have anticipated the backlash at contract time from a certain percentage of the UAW--but he did- and I guess that was in the contract-case closed.
What the guy on the line has to understand is a guy like Mulaly has but one life right now-and its Ford. He doesn't punch out and go home-or probably head for a gin mill-with out a worry in his head. And guess what-most people in management live with that same mindset-you are never off the clock.
Last word to Spacedude- tough job? I'm sure it has its downsides-but its your job. Ever work construction? Ever drive a haz mat vehicle? Ever go in a burning building? Ever make a sales call -and you get paid when you sell-and have a door slammed in your face? Ever pull a car over at 3 AM that has three people in it and you don't know what to expect? And better yet, been on patrol in some shithole town in Iraq?
I'm sure the answer is no! But you probably did fill the Slurpy machine at the local convenience store so appreciate what you have. Bt the way, I've been through KTP as a customer in the old days of big trucks- I was glad those guys were building my trucks. I also took the tour through Dearborn a year or so ago. Looked like a nice place to work. Would I want to do it? No-but I can think of a lot of other things that are far worse and don't pay a fraction of what these people are making in terms of pay and benefits.
We can only hope sanity prevails. I think there is a lot more riding on this contract than just a Ford/UAW issue. This contract to me says a lot as to just how this country can compete in its desire to bring good jobs back from the third world.
Judging from what i see in the Employee forum the inmates may have taken over the asylum. Anyone advocating a "yes" vote seems to be immediately attacked. Where I had assumed that reason would prevail it appears that mob psychology and momentum are conspiring to rule the day.It's always amazing how many people think they know more than the people who sat at the bargaining table for weeks.It could still be saved by the plants that are promised new work. I hope so.
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How embarrasing is it that some are whining and want raises etc when the economy and autoindustry are still basically dealing with a depression/recession?? How many other professions(teachers etc) would kill to have a contract like this with huge bonuses etc? Why the sense of entitlement? Do we at Ford deserve so much more than GM or the other automakers? Why do we deserve more? No wonder people have shitty attitudes about autoworkers
People's opinions about us are only going to get worse with all the bad publicity from turning down the contract. It seems the only folks who don't realize Ford avoided bankruptcy only by borrowing money before the economy tanked are in the UAW. Don't think for a moment that some people's buying decisions aren't influenced by their feelings about union labor. Ford enjoyed a boost in sales because they didn't take a bailout. Even forcing the company back to the bargaining table without a strike risks losing all that goodwill.Is it worth it? I don't know. I do know there seems to be a lot of name calling and profanity on these forums lately. Isn't it possible to offer different opinions without attacking one another? I just read a post where someone called anyone who disagreed a spineless whimp(sic) and then went on to call for solidarity. Just because it's the members forum doesn't mean others don't read it. Don't care what others think about us? Go ahead and curse and rant, but don't act surprised when prospective customers buy Hondas or Toyotas after reading these forums. I think a "no" vote is a bad idea , but anyone is welcome to disagree with me. Let's keep it civil...if possible.
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One of my best friends just lost his job as a Federal Investigator for the Govt, hes got two kids and is close to losing his house...and he doesnt Pi$$ and Moan like this, let alone makke out like hes owed a favor....Ive taken cutbacks myself, and theres ZERO future ( ie retirement 401k matching ) in my profession, its on MY shoulders and no-one elses...im just glad right now I have a damn job.....yes its financially trying sometimes, but Im a glass is half full guy and will deal....AND theres a big part of me, due to individuals such as Pioneer and Derek, thats rooting for them....yes Alan and Bills compensation on the surface looks exorbident, but realize without them tens of thousands of individuals would also be losing their homes.....FACT!
Please bear in mind that not every UAW member is blind to the situation at hand , or to the ramifications of rejecting the contract. It does get to be an emotional issue when some people are continually banging the drum for blaming all the Automaker's problems on the greed of the UAW. As Pioneer said, there are some other issues that some members object to. Personally, I'm OK with what's been offered. I look forward to jobs coming back to the U.S. A contract vote at the UAW is a not unlike a national election: 40% on the yes side,40% on the no side, and 20% undecided. Unfortunately, in this case, a good many undecided voters and "no" voters can't or won't take the longer view of things. They will always view the company and in some cases the IUAW in an adversarial way.While I might see the Chairman's salary as the cost of saving Ford there are some who resent taking cuts while he's cashing the checks.Best case is that the plants that are promised new work vote overwhelmingly for approval and the contract passes by a simple majority. Worst case is (like the last modification package) the short term thinkers get so much momentum that they intimidate otherwise reasonable folks into voting no and forcing them back to the bargaining table. Two things wrong with scenario no. 2: A The public thinks we're greedy jerks and B, Ford has a firm idea what their labor costs need to be. Changes to the contract will only result in" robbing Peter to pay Paul".
2020 Ford Explorer
in Ford Motor Company Discussion Forum
Posted · Edited by povertyknob
adding information
The lease on my Expedition is coming to an end in a couple of months and I'm considering another Expy, an F 150 Super Crew , and the Explorer ST. The EB35 in my Expedition has not been a disappointment at all and if I'm going to downsize I'd like to see 2-3 mpg better on average. The Explorer with the 3.0 sounds like something I'd be interested in but if it offers fuel economy only marginally better than the Expedition I'll probably go that route (Expedition) again. The only 3.0 TT I could find for comparison was in a Lincoln. I wouldn't expect to see any discounted lease prices on the new Explorers any time soon so the 2019 Expedition probably won't be much more to lease.