mirak

Sorry if this is a dumb question: I know Ford is trying to gin up sales for its first release of the Mach E in late 2020, but does anyone know - or think - that dealerships will be stocking Mach Es on the lots by late 2021 or 2022? I'm interested in taking a swing at one of the more baseline Mach Es, albeit it with an extended battery pack, at some point before the $7,500 tax credit is used up, but I really hate buying new cars from dealerships unless I've got some negotiating power. That means inventory sitting on lots. I can't tell if Ford's plan is to eventually sell the Mach E through dealers the same as the rest of it's lineup, or if it is going to stay with the hybrid "pre-order, then finalize price with dealer" method it's using for the first wave.

Fixed your post. I actually found several dealerships willing to order at x-plan, just nobody willing to sell them off the lot at that price, which is understandable. But why wouldn't a dealer want to order one? Maybe the profit is so small that they just don't want to hassle with placing the order and completing the transaction, or maybe they're trying to discourage use of x-plan. Because demand for the FFH far exceeds supply at this time, x-plan allows you to get a tremendous deal on the is car, but it was not as hassle-free as it is supposed to be. The snakes tried to pad their margins by adding extra fees when it came time to close the deal, and I suspect this is not unusual at all.

Drove the car off the lot today. Averaged 39 mpg on my short trip back to the office. The hybrid tech is really smooth. I was easily cruising around on EV for 1/4 to 1/2 mile segments at speeds from 35 to 40 mph. This car is quiet - amazingly so for a non-luxury sedan. Lots of toys in this car. I've got a lot of work to do this weekend figuring out how to set up and use the SmartGauge, Sync, and the Nav system.

I ordered my fully-loaded FFH on 7/7, and it arrived today on 8/25! :happy feet: That's just 7 weeks after ordering. And to think I was worried about getting it before the end of September.

Wow - that is pretty fast. I also ordered mine on July 7! I called the dealer early last week just to make sure the order had been submitted, and was told "Ford has confirmed the order" - whatever that means. No VIN at that time. I'll check again early next week.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source...33jIAM&cd=2 Pretty cool satellite imagry of Ford's Hermosillo plant. I like the test track on the east side.

I know there's a super long thread on Fusion order status, but it's tough to read through 385 posts and counting. Would anyone who has ordered a FFH please post: a ) when they ordered, b ) when they got their VIN, c ) when it was delivered, and d ) your city? I just placed my order less than two weeks ago, so I'll probably wait a bit longer before pestering the dealer for updates, but I'd like to have a benchmark. I was hoping for delivery in 8 to 12 weeks.

I'm replacing my 98 Mustang with a Ford Fusion Hybrid. Sadly, even though I'm upgrading from a combined 21mpg to 39mpg, that doesn't get me squat from the Cash for Clunkers program. It's clear that the law doesn't allow you to trade-in a junkyard car that's already off the road. The car has to be registered and insured for the full year immediately before trade-in. The hot topic is whether you can buy a cheap car on craigslist and trade that in for the rebate. I don't think the law is 100% clear on this point, but I think it's pretty clear that the answer is no. Quoting the law, to be an eligible trade-in, the car: ( A ) is in drivable condition; ( B ) has been continuously insured consistent with the applicable State law and registered to the same owner for a period of not less than 1 year immediately prior to such trade-in; ( C ) was manufactured less than 25 years before the date of the trade-in; and ( D ) in the case of an automobile, has a combined fuel economy value of 18 miles per gallon or less. A, C, and D are easy. It's B that's the snag. I've heard it argued that the car doesn't have to be registered in the name of the person trading it in - it just has to have been registered to the same person for a year prior to trade-in. I don't think a dealer (they're the ones that bear the risk of not being reimbursed by Uncle Sam) will buy that. The problem are the words "same owner" and "immediately prior to such trade-in." Clearly, the intention is to prevent people from doing exactly what I propose. If the intent was simply to prevent people from trading in cars that were already off the road - say, in junk yard - then why would it matter that the car be continuously registered to one owner for a period of a year? The law could have just said "continuously registered and insured" - no matter how many different owners - and accomplished that. The only purpose I can see of the "same owner" language is that the person trading in the vehicle must have been the owner of the car for the last year. Agree? Disagree?

Here's something interesting. I've always heard "change your oil every 3,000 miles" - but the FFH's maintance plan specifically calls for oil changes just every 10,000 miles! That seems odd to me. Can anyone explain? Is it really a good idea to wait 10,000 miles between changes?

I've only recently ordered my FFH, but I'm already starting through the owner's guide, and I've come across lots of interesting information. For example: Page 5: Your vehicle does not need an extensive break-in. Try not to drive continuously at the same speed for the first 1,000 miles (1,600 km) of new vehicle operation. Vary your speed frequently in order to give the moving parts a chance to break in. Page 8: Your fuel economy should improve throughout your hybrid’s break-in period. Page 9: The high voltage battery is electrically isolated from the rest of the vehicle when the key is OFF. When the key is turned ON, high voltage contactors inside the battery are closed to make the electricity available to the motor/generator and enable the vehicle to drive. The clicks are the sound of these contactors as they close and open during start up and shut down. Page 10: Running out of gas is not recommended. However, you may be able to go about one mile, driving at 30 mph (48 km/h), if the battery has a normal state of charge. Page 11: Your hybrid vehicle can use E10 (10% ethanol, 90% gasoline) fuel, but you may notice slightly reduced fuel economy because ethanol contains less energy per gallon than gasoline. Your hybrid vehicle is not designed to use E85 (85% ethanol).

Based on track capacity, the jukebox is definitely ripping the CDs to an mp3 or similar compressed format. It's curious that the jukebox won't accept mp3s directly. The CD player will play mp3s, right? And, of course, mp3 can be synced via USB. So, I'm not sure where the "piracy" issue comes in. The vast majority of my music is mp3 only. I haven't bought a new CD in years. Still, I've got plenty of old CDs that I might want to rip to the jukebox. Having the album art on the nav screen would be nifty, I guess. In reading other posts on other forums, there is definitely some mixed information on whether an iPhone can be synced via USB and used as a phone (Bluetooth or otherwise) at the same time. I guess I'll just find out when my FFH and iPhone 3Gs arrive. If anyone has actually synced a phone to the USB, your advice on the phone's functionality while synced would be appreciated.

I suspect it's going to be really tough, if not impossible, to find homelink visors which actually match the ceiling fabric of the 2010 FFH. But if I can get something close, nobody will probably ever notice. My dealership's parts & service center may be able to help get me some color codes and close matches, though I definitely won't be buying a new set of visors from them! If I cannot find something suitable on eBay for 50 bucks or so, I'll just suck it up and tuck a little transmitter somewhere.

So does the jukebox rip the CD to mp3s, or keep the full-size audio files? Full size files would only allow storage of about 12 CDs (which is still a lot better than 6-CD changer). Is the entire CD ripped or can you select tracks?

I'd like to swap out the visors in my new FFH for homelink-equipped visors. I see many listed on eBay for around $50, but I need a set that's (a) compatible with the car, and (B) matches the ceiling color. Do the 2010 Fusions have different-colored ceilings based on upholstery color? If so, anybody know the color code for the ceiling of a 2010 FFH with medium stone leather interior? Anybody added homelink visors? Any recommendations of matching cars?

Thanks. That's really all the questions I have now. I've read elsewhere that an iPhone can't be synced via USB and used as a phone at the same time, so if that's true I'll just sync all my music with a USB jump drive. Unless the jukebox is somehow superior to the USB sync, I probably won't eve use the jukebox. I am surprised the system reserves 30gb of space for the navigation. That must be one heck of a nav system! I can't wait to start playing with all this stuff. Now I've just got to figure out how to add Homelink.

Thanks for all the info so far. Without being able to play around with the technology, I'm a bit nervous about how well integrated all of this stuff is. I'll have an iPhone, with all my music on it, which I'll want to sync via USB to the car so I can use voice commands or the nav screen to browse and play music. But I also want to use the iPhone for bluetooth calling. I've heard the phone can't do this when connected to USB. Is this true? If so, maybe I'll just have to put all my music on a thumb drive and connect that to USB, but that's kind of pain because I also wanted to use the USB to charge the iPhone. Then there's the 10gb jukebox, which I think basically acts as a harddrive-based CD changer. Can it store mp3s burned onto a CD, or does it only store full-size audio files? (This may not matter since I'll have all my mp3s synced through USB, but I want to know what I can do.) Is it also possible to play / browse music on the jukebox with voice commands or the nav screen? How much of that 10gb of storage is occupied by the nav software? Are any of the media touchscreen controls, such as scrolling through the jukebox or USB music library, locked out while driving, or is it just the nav stuff?

I went ahead and took the plunge. Ordered a 502A, white platinum. I actually kind of liked the more minimalist look of the non-nav console, but there were simply too many cool sounding features of the Nav system to pass up. The backup cam in the rearview mirror was kind of neat, but the larger display on the nav screen will be a lot easier to use. Also, I wonder if I can now swap out the rearview mirror for one with homelink? The nav itself seems pretty self-explanatory, and I hear it's really good. Do I still get the 6 CD changer with the Nav, or is that replaced by the 10GB jukebox? How is stuff added to the jukebox? What hybrid information is displayed on the nav system? How easy it to toggle between hybrid info, nav, music, and climate control screens? How much can I see at once? What is locked out while the vehicle is moving? Anyone know of a tutorial (video, preferably) going through all the features of the nav system?

Thanks for the info. Please keep the posts coming. I'm especially interested to learn about (1) any hybrid system displays/stats on the nav screen, and (2) iPod and phone Sync with the nav screen. Can you touch-scroll through your music collection while driving, just like on an iPod?

I'm getting set to order a FFH, and the only question is whether to pay an extra $1000 for nav (I want everything else). I hear the actual navigation is nice - but I don't need it. I've got a separate Garmin. The reason I would consider paying for nav is all the other stuff you get with the nav unit. So, what is that stuff? A better display of music information on the bigger nav screen? Any better Sync interaction with bluetooth phones of iPod? A hybrid system display? How useful is it? What else do you get with the screen? I hear you can watch DVDs while the car is parked, but I don't really care about that.

You're right - I didn't realize the FFH got that much better milage than the regular Fusion! So let's say an advantage of 15mpg. My calculation of the $3k premium was after the $1700 tax credit, so I do think this is about right. The extra 5mpg makes a big difference in the calculations. At $2.50/gallon, the premium is paid off in 108k miles. At $3, the premium is paid off at 90k miles. And if gas were to soar to $4, the premium would be paid in just 67.5k miles. (Let's not hope for this, though.)

Another interesting comparison is how many miles you'll have to drive to justify in gas savings the premium you paid for the FFH versus a comparably-optioned Fusion. Assuming a $3k premium, average gas price of $2.50, and 10MPG advantage, it would take 160k miles to pay off that $3k premium in gas savings. At $3.00 gas, it will take 135k miles. If you want to play with the numbers yourself, you can use the following equation: X = ACD / (DB - CB) X = Total Miles necessary A = Hybrid Price Premium B = Avg Gas Price Per Gallon C = Avg Non-Hybrid MPG D = Avg Hybrid MPG Buying this hybrid just for gas savings makes very little sense, unless you're expecting gas to spike upwards of $4 a gallon (and maybe that's not so crazy). I like the hybrid technology because it's fun to drive, and maybe I'll break even down the road.

This is exactly the kind of info I'm looking for. If anyone else has impressions, I would appreciate them. The speed limit around town is mostly 35 to 40, and Wichita is flat, so I'm hoping the FFH can cruise at least a mile or two around town at 40mph. With all the stoplights, I rarely have the opportunity to drive more than a couple of miles before I have to stop and then reaccelerate. Because the FFH is lighter than my Highlander, I'm expecting it to be able to cruise faster and further on battery.

I've got a Highlander Hybrid and love it. I'm looking to replace my old Mustang with another hybrid, and the FFH kicks the snot out of the Prius in terms of exterior/interior styling and features. But I haven't driven one far enough to really get a good sense of how the FFH's hybrid system performs. It's not just about MPG for me. I like the "full hybird" technology of being able to drive at certain speeds on battery alone. That's why I would never consider Honda's "mild hybrid" design, even if the overall MPG is good, because the gas engine is almost always running. As an example, in my Highlander, the engine kicks on about 6 seconds after every start-up. How long the engine runs depends on the outside temperture and how fast I'm driving, but I usually have to drive at least a couple of miles before the hybrid system really starts to kick in. At that point, I can usually employ the "pulse and glide" method of accelerating to speed with the engine and then running on battery alone at speeds up to about 38mph. On a relatively flat road, I can usually do this battery-only driving for several minutes, until the battery is mostly depleted. I hear the FFH can run up to 47mph on battery only, but for how long? How long does it take the system to warm up? Once the system is warmed up, can the FFH cruise at least a solid mile on city streets at 35mph plus on just battery? Describe your typical driving experience from start-up.

What a great thread. I have also compared the 2010 Prius to the 2010 FFH, and I definitely agree with most of the points. I was initially sold on the new Prius, and was spending a lot of time on PriusChat. Then I went and actually saw a Prius and compared it to a FFH. Here are my observations: First, it's absolutely true that the FFH and Prius are not in the same class. Technically, that would be the Camry Hybrid, but the FFH blows the Camry Hybrid out of the water. The FFH is cheaper, gets better MPG, and has better features overall. The top-end Prius "V" (the one with with 17" wheels) and the FFH are a worthy comparison because they are similar in price (if the FFH's $1700k tax credit is taken into account). Exterior: The new Prius certainly looks a little more muscular and less bubble-shaped than the old generation, but I still wouldn't say it's a beautiful car. It's mostly the stubby little front-end of the Prius, viewed head-on, which looks really ugly to me. That, and Toyota has expanded the size of it's logo to about 6" across. The Prius looks a bit smaller and uglier in person than as seen in the promotional photos, kind of like a celebrity. The FFH, on the other hand, is a very attractive car. The chrome grill is cool, and rear taillights, of all things, really popped out at me. Both Prius and the FFH offer a "pearl white" luxury finish (for more money). The 17" wheels are different, but I think equally attractive. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but for me... FFH wins. Interior: The Prius's new eco-friendly plastics on the dash and console felt brittle and cheap. There are a lot of weird buttons in this car, and they're not located in very intuitive places. Rear-visability is very limited by the hatchback design. On the plus-side, the Prius is surprisingly roomy for what appears to be such a small car from the outside. Even with ample front seat leg room, the leg room in back was very comfortable (I'm 6'1"). Part of this comes from Toyota carving out the backs of the front seats, but I also think they've been able to push the rear seats further back because of the hatchback design. The FFH's dash and console felt like much higher quality. Also, the console has a more conventional design. Rear visibility was good. The FFH felt a bit more roomy than the Prius from side to side, but not front to back. Actually, the Prius has a bit morerear leg room than the FFH. Still... FFH wins. Cargo: FFH has a decent trunk, but it can't match the cargo versatility of the Prius. That's just the benefit of the hatchback design, which Toyota has utilized masterfully. No question... Prius wins. Instrument Panel: Prius has this new "Multi-Function Display," which holds all the guages and other info. It's been moved from behind the wheel to the high center of the dash. This puts it more within the line of sight while driving, but it also puts it further away, and display looks small, cluttered, and monochrome. The FFH's colorful, customizable, multi-LCD instrument panel is night-and-day superior. FFH wins. Features: Prius has push-button start, key-fob entry, LED headlamps, and "Econ" and "Power" modes to help squeeze out extra MPGs or HPs. FFH has a sunroof (can't get that unless you buy a $3500 package on the Prius, and can't get it at all on the model V), backup cam (can't get that on the Prius without paying at least $1k for Nav), Microsoft SYNC (waaay better than Toyota's technology), customizable ambient lighting (kinda cheesy, but still cool), and automatic headlights (yes, the Prius actually doesn't have this). I dearly wish the FFH had some of the Prius's features, but overall... FFH wins. Mileage: The Prius gets about 10mpg better than the FFH. Depending on how important this is, it could be the deciding difference between the two cars. I love hybrid technology. I used to think MPG was my top priority. Then I sat in both cars. I though "I've got to be happy in this car for the next 10 years." You know what? I can have just as much fun getting 40 MPG as I can getting 50 MPG. Actually, I think I can have more fun hyper-miling in the FFH because the instrument panel is so much cooler. Still, on an objective basis, there's no question that... Prius wins. Driving: I'm not a professional driver. Honestly, I thought the cars handled about the same. (Again, this is the "touring" Prius with the 17" wheels - not the 15" wheels which have been criticized). However, I did notice that the FFH had a quieter ride. On that basis... FFH wins. Safety: 5-star crash tests are all well and good (honestly, I don't know how either rates, but assume they both do well). At the end of the day, the Fusion is a bigger, heavier car. If I had to make a choice between wrecking with my family in a Prius or FFH, there's no question... FFH wins. Reliability: The big question mark. Both the Prius and FFH are new models, though the Prius has a proven track record in the previous model. Toyota has an excellent reputation. I'd say Ford has a good, and improving reputation. Ford is making great strides, but Toyota is still the safer bet. Prius wins. Intangibles: This does not impact my decision making - it's just icing on the cake given the decision I've made. The FFH may be manufactured in Mexico, but Ford is still an American company - and I'm proud to support a company that looks like it's got its, ahem, "Stuff" together. That, and Prius owners are generally very annoying people. It's a stereotype, and as with all stereotypes, there are exceptions, but stereotypes also exist for a reason. FFH wins. Overall, FFH wins in a landslide. Unless MPG, cargo capacity, or "owning a Prius" are so important that you're prepared to sacrifice a lot of interior quality and features, the FFH is the obvious choice (again assuming cost is about the same between a Prius V a more base FFH).