Wolf Island Diver

The car is out of warranty. Also, to clarify I haven't been frustrated because this part went bad. It's a fairly common problem and solenoids like this could really go bad at any point. What is frustrating is the sheer number of issues with this car and in the case of this particular problem, it's the fact that Ford mounts the evaporative purge box in a place that requires extensive disassembly of the rear end of the car. This and the issues we've had with Priority Ford. To give everyone an update. We picked the car up on Thursday. The technician examined the evap box and decided he could get away with cleaning it out instead of replacement. He also replaced the purge solenoid. All in all it ended up costing less at $400. Most of that cost was the tear down to get to the vapor canister. I have a better idea of where the vapor purge valve is now thanks to some early responses clarifying the awful service manual. I also have the definitive part number for the valve. Next time I'll fix this myself hopefully soon enough to avoid contaminating the vapor box.

Update: Today my wife was driving the car, taking our son to the baby sitters, when it cut off at an intersection. She managed to get it started but it bucked and surged violently, as she tried to get it off the road. She called our dealer, Priority Ford in Norfolk, Va. (formerly Freedom Ford), and told them the situation. They said they couldn't look at it and she would need to call back later and schedule an appointment for next week. Keep in mind, that at this point she believed the car to be undrivable and relayed that to them, but this kind of respond is par for the course for this dealership. She called me and I suggested she call another dealer close by (Bowditch Ford in Newport News.) They said they would squeeze it in today. She was able to get it started and drove it there without any more drama. They went through the diagnostic process and determined that the problem is exactly what I thought it was. The purge solenoid was stuck open. Failures of these purge solenoids apparently are a common problem ever since a redesign in 2009 (Although, this seems to have yet another design). This failure caused an over vacuum state in the evaporation system that sucked gasoline into the purge canister ruining it and causing the stalling problems. Also, as indicated by the service manual, because the canister is located where it is, they will have to remove the rear subframe, including suspension, driveline, brakes, etc., to replace it. All in all the price quoted to me by Bowditch is also what I suspected including the diagnostic, at approximately $700. All of this for a $26 part that commonly goes bad. My advice to anyone who's 2013/14 escape's check engine light come on, or experiences a stall after getting gas, is to stop driving the car immediately. You may be able to prevent damage to the purge canister and save yourself a very costly repair, by just getting the purge solenoid replaced. Although, its also possible that once you have experienced the first symptoms, its already too late, and you are going to need a canister (and $700) as well.

Thanks for the response. When I looked at, I suspected that the component that was aft and below of the inlet tube was the probably the purge valve. It seems like a weird design, how it connects in multiple places, and the clips are also awful. I read the section in the manual where it tells you how to remove fuel system clips, but I know I still propably break half of them. I love Fords section describing the different types of arrows used in the manual. It screams "An Anal Retentive Engineer Who's Never Turned A Wrench Wrote This"

As some might notice from past posts, we are on our second 2013 Escape. The first one leaked from day one, so we took it back before the check cleared. The second one hasn't had the leak, but it has had seemingly every other problem with the exception of all the 1.6 L related issues (ours has the 2.0). Early in our ownership we took it to the dealership a four page document detailing the issues. The dealership was either "unable to duplicate" any of them or stated that they were normal functions of the car. These included the exhaust popping, suspension creaking, engine/exhaust smell in the cabin among others. It’s frustrating because all of the problems we complained about now have TSB's associated with them, or are common knowledge, but our car is past its warranty. This, I guess, is the price for being first to buy a new model vehicle, so lesson learned. Also it almost goes without saying but MFT has never worked reliably in this car (crashes multiple times a day) yet the dealership has always refused to replace the hardware component that supposedly was granted an extended warranty by Ford. They always claim it’s a software issue, and the reliability of the system never gets any better with updates or reflashes. At least the car ran well, until now. Now we have finally gotten there. Whenever you put gas in it, the car starts and them immediately stalls. It takes multiple attempts to start it. Once it starts, it runs fine and starts and stops fine. It throws code P1450, which indicates excessive vacuum in the evaporative system. Now in most vehicles, including older escapes, this isn't a big deal. Its acuallty a common issue, and is a known issue for Fords. Usually this is caused by a bad purge solenoid, or simply a clogged/dirty evap canister or hoses. You can literally replace the entire system in this car for a couple hundred dollars in parts. On the escape there is actually a replaceable pre-filter for the canister, and you can usually take these things apart and clean them out. The problem is that Ford in its infinite wisdom decided to locate the evap box, filter, and vent solenoid in a place under the car that can only be reached by removing the entire rear subframe. This involves disconnecting and removing the rear brakes, suspension, drivetrain, and any wiring from the rear of the car. In the past evap canisters were often located under the hood and when they were located under the vehicle, they were accessible. This was a simple job I was hoping to do myself, but unfortunately, it cannot be done without a lift and an extended transmission jack, plus hours of teardown, brake work, etc. What's more, the factory service manual is easily the worst I have ever seen for any vehicle foreign or domestic. For example, the instructions for removing the evap purge solenoid consists only of a picture of the engine with no indication of where it is actually located, just blue highlighting for the myriad of hoses for the evap system. In perusing the manual in general, it is clear that very little engineering was done to establish actual procedures for troubleshooting, repairing or even removing or installing many of the components or systems in this car. I understand that there exists additional diagnostic manuals from manufacturers, so factory service manuals are not all inclusive. However, these additional manuals are often even more general or specific only to the procedures related to a diagnostic procedure, not specific to how a particular car comes apart or where components are located. This issue is probably not unique to Ford, but it also helps explain why dealerships seem to often resort to throwing parts at a problem, often with limited success. Dealership technicians are at the mercy of the quality of the manufacturer’s documentation and communication when dealing with increasingly complex products. Considering the relative newness of this vehicle, the poor quality of the manual (the instructions for removing the subframe mostly consist of vague pictures as well), and sheer depth of teardown required to perform even basic diagnostics on this system, I'm afraid for what will happen when I take it to the dealership next week and what it will cost. One last thing. This situation is made worse by another common Ford issue: the tendency for Ford to change part specs in mid-production multiple times. For the evap system it means that is it very hard to identify what parts actually fit this car. I have not been able, for example, to find the purge solenoid in any parts listing online that matches this car. Most places confuse it with the vent solenoid or located it in the wrong place. Also most places list multiple or conflicting purge canisters for this car. This isn't the kind of stuff you should have to think about when you buy a new car, but then again manufactures shouldn't design cars so that common repairs, which almost qualify as maintenance issues, require a partial teardown of the car.

Yeah, this is the second time we did this. The first time worked out well. We bought an Infiniti G37 right when they came out and never had any problems with that car. I figured that there was so much platform sharing going on at Nissan that it really wasn't totally new. I thought the Ford would be the same sort of situation because of the Kuga in Europe. Nope. Pushed my luck too many times. The thing is, we really like this car. Most of the problems are infrequent and minor annoyances, but they happen just enough that it reduces confidence in the vehicle at least for me. My wife drives it all the time and seems satisfied. I'm the one who has OCD over this kind of stuff.

Its been a long time since I last posted, but I get emails from the forum when people post to this thread. I'm sorry for all the troubles people keep having. Our Escape leaked from day one. I took it back on day two and told the dealer to go pack sand. They gave us a new car, but I think that was mostly due to the fact that we bought the car on Friday and the cashiers check hadn't even been processed yet. It also helped that my wife came waddling in the following Monday very pregnant and very emotional to talk to the manager. We never found out what the cause was, and I think we were the first case. The dealer said that Ford came and took the car. From the location of the stains, I could tell that there was no way the window seals were the culprit. What bothers me is that Ford dealers keep taking peoples windshields out. I've read a number of threads here elsewhere with the same story: The dealer replaces the windshield seal, and it still leaks. The problem isn't fixed until they take a look at the roof rack. The problem is caused by the forward roof rack mount. The new car hasn't been trouble free either although it doesn't leak. We had an exhaust smell in the cabin. The smart key seat settings seem to be reversed. The car locked itself and locked my wife out. The suspension creaked for a while. The door handles stick. The BLIS/parking sensors occasionally go nuts, and now we have the phantom lift gate opening problem as well. We've taken it to the dealer and for every problem they "could not duplicate." MFT is a glitchy slow mess. Now its out of warranty. We'll keep our fingers crossed. My father always said "never buy a first model year car".

I got my replacement vehicle on 9/6. It seems to be fine. The tailgate is also better alligned. The sales guy had no idea what was wrong with the original vehicle. I hope the new one was sealed with the "good" glue. Heres the info on the two vehicles: This is the first one we had (the leaky lemon): 1FMCU9J91DUA38365 Ordered 6/5/12 Manufactured on 6/29/12 Delivered on 7/19/12 The replacement vehicle (Hopefully not a leaker): 1FMCU9J91DUA84164 Ordered on 7/23/12 Manufactured on 8/13/12 Delivered on 9/5/12 Both were 2.0 AWD Titaniums with the panoramic roof.

I wouldn't have minded if they hooked us up with Ken Block's Fiesta

No problem. Always glad to help. BTW. Ford engineers have taken the car. The leak issue is new to them, and they are going over the car to determine the root cause. The dealership has ordered us a new escape. They are going to send it through the auto show car build process. Apparently this involves removing it from the production line for additional inspections throughout the build process. It should be perfect. They provided us with '12 Explorer until the new Escape comes in 4 weeks. All in all the dealership has been great and Ford has stepped up and taken care of us.

Repair is out of the question because we have no idea when the water intrusion began. The vehicle sat in a holding lot at the factory for a month. We have no idea what internally has been affected by the water. Also we noticed the problem on the second day, with 30 miles on the odometer. How far is the dealership going to have to tear the vehicle apart to replace effected components and make sure they have caught everything? The obvious area of the headliner that has the stain is a massive piece. They will basically have to strip the interior to get it out. It will probably not go back together like it was new and will possibly introduce new problems. As for my confidence in the vehicle, that really is not an issue. Stuff happens. My main concern is that Ford corrects the problem with my vehicle. I have no doubt that they will investigate this vehicle to determine the root cause of the issue. With regards to the workers at the plant, I'm not pinning this on them. This could be a component problem, an engineering problem, or an assembly problem. Both of the recalls had nothing to do with the assembly workers. In fact, they were the ones that discovered the issues. I also work in manufacturing (Nuclear aircraft carriers, and submarines). I've worked "On the boat" as a skilled tradesperson, in production management, and now as a systems and industrial engineer. Specifically, I study, model and develop processes including manufacturing processes, nuclear refueling processes, and aircraft carrier flight deck conops. Green labor is a major problem for any organization. It is completely independent of the motivation of the employees. I also disagree that new workers are automatically more motivated. I’ve seen it both ways. We have to deal with two major generational problems where I work. One is that we can’t keep the young people from texting while supposed to be working. The other, is that the vast majority of young people come in with no basic mechanical skills. The age of the shade tree mechanic and gear head is coming to an end. People don’t work on their “stuff” like they used to. We just throw it away or take it in for service. I’m sure that there are plenty of people who will disagree with that because they still work on their own stuff, but on an aggregate population level they are wrong. Skilled manufacturing trades are in a major decline, and will keep declining. Although quality training can go a long way to elevating these problems, it does not completely make up for experience. You are absolutely right that it’s a management problem. They need to recognize that the defect rate will increase with new workers. It will also increase when experienced workers are introduced to a new product or process. This is not an indictment of the assembly line workers. It’s human nature. When a new process, product or workforce is introduced, the per-unit build time has to be increased and QA process has to be bolstered. I don't work for Ford, but I can easily assume that they have done much of this. American auto manufacturers absolutely know how to do industrial engineering and manufacturing. Ford basically invented modern manufacturing. It’s often business decisions that lead to problems. All of this being said, the vehicle arrived with a glaring obvious problem in the misaligned lift gate. It was the first thing I noticed when I walked up to it. There were undoubtedly several opportunities to catch and correct this problem, but it wasn't. It very well may be what you said, that management decided to kick the can down the road and make it the dealerships problem. However, my experience tells me that a new workforce building a new product on a new line is going to experience some problems. I am confident that Ford will work through them, and I believe that the engineering and assembly is generally sound. Honda, who according to Consumer Reports can do no wrong, just recalled the CR-V because the doors can come open while you’re driving down the road; isn’t that quaint. Problems happen. My concern is that they own the problem and take care of it. As for my Escape the dealer called today and said that Ford is going to replace the vehicle and provide us with a rental until it arrives. After work, we are going over to Norfolk to pick up our rental and work out the details.

Repair is out of the question. I took it to the dealership Saturday and told them we don't want it back. The dealership has already put a hold on the processing of our check. Depending on what Ford says tomorrow, we're either getting a replacement vehicle or a refund. I'll still get the panoramic roof if I get a new one. The panoramic roof is not new to this platform. Its been on the Kuga for a few years. Ford should know how to engineer one of these. I really think the are problems at the Kentucky plant. In order to meet production they had to hire a lot of new people. There is also a rush to meet demand. They've undoubtebly got a green labor problem, and obviously a QA problem. I could see the misalignment of my lift gate from a mile away. How was that missed by an inspector? At the same time the two recall items were discovered by the factory, and thats a good thing. Its really a mixed bag a far as releases go, but probably not untypical for any manufacturer. The important thing to me is that they own this particular problem, make it right, and take the steps to make sure that these things don't continue to happen.

I might have caused some confusion in comparing the Escapes "steel" roof to my Jeeps soft top. I DO have the panoramic sunroof on the escape. That being said, its not an 8 year old sheet of canvas, but unlike the canvas, it leaks. Im not sure if the leak is coming from panoramic roof. There are stains on both a-pillars. That seems to point to the sunroof, but there are no signs of water intrusion near the actual opening in the roof. If the panoramic roof has drains going down the a-pillars, that could be it. It could also be the roof rack. One thing is for sure, its not new. We saw a light mark when we got it on the drivers side a-pillar. It was really faint, shorter, and lower down then the one in the picture. We though it was a scuff from people moving in and out of the car during assembly. rk2112 - To answer your question, we ordered the car on the 5th of June. It was built on the 29th of June, and we finally recieved it on Thursday July 19. That is part of the reason this is so infuriating. We were told it would be 4 weeks, it took 6. We had the car for less than 3 days and now this. The dealership and Ford won't do anything until Monday. We're having to borrow someone's car.

Hello Everyone, I just posted this to escape - city as well. My wife and I picked up our new Titanium edition on Thursday. Friday we noticed that the liftgate isn't alligned properly. Today we noticed that there is a water stain on the A-piller indicating that there is a roof leak. We decided to take it to the dealership immediately. On the way to the dealership MFT went crazy and started rebooting over and over. MFT is glitchy, but it had worked fine until today. Im curious if is related to the roof leak as it rained last night. Its funny, I've had a soft top Jeep Rubicon for 8 years. Its never leaked, but my new cars metal roof leaks. This is after waiting almost 2 months to get the vehicle. It sat in Kentucky for 3 weeks before Ford got around to ship it. I told the dealership that they can either refund our money or Ford can get us a new car. Monday i'm told the Ford rep is getting involved. I'm starting to wonder about the quality control at Fords Kentucky plant. Maybe this will be recall number 3? Btw. Other then the fact that the car is lemony fresh, we love it. We actually got 33mpg yesterday, admittedly driving it really conservatively. Its really nice inside, comfortable, fast and quiet. We really hope we can get this situation resolved.