Mags10
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Posts posted by Mags10
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1 hour ago, akirby said:
In some cases the dealer is the holdup because they have a lot of other orders ahead of you in the queue. In other cases they just can’t get enough parts for certain models and builds.
It would be more correct to simply say the dealer can’t get me the truck I want.
There is no lack of demand on the GMs they’re going strong but they’re also dealing with parts shortages.
Let’s look at the sales numbers going back to 2017, because they reveal why there is so much aggravation with Ford by many on here, including me. Dealers would sell trucks if they could get them, they aren’t the problem. Data is from Motrolix.I’m going to combine the GM brands since they are the same truck except for a grille and badging.
2017 to 2019 was the boom time for Ford. Let’s round the numbers below off to an average of 900,000 trucks per year.
2017 - 896764 units
2018 - 909330 units
2019 - 896526 units
GM trucks during that time were pretty consistent as well. I’ll go with an average of 805,000 trucks per year.
2017 - 803807 units
2018 - 805135 units
2019 - 807923 units
Now let’s look at the Covid years.
In 2020, Ford sold 787422 trucks, or about 113000 less than the prior 3 year average, whereas GM sold 847110, over 40000 more than their 3 year average.
In 2021, Ford sold 726004 trucks, or 174000 less that the ‘17-‘19 average, whereas GM sold 768689, or about 36000 less than their ‘17-‘19 average.
2022 is the staggering year. Ford sold 653957 trucks, or 246000 less, whereas GM sold 764771, or 40000 less.
For 2023, let’s double the first 6 months for a rough projection of a yearly number.
Ford is on track to sell 765000 trucks, or 135000 less than the ‘17-‘19 average, whereas GM is on track to sell 822000 trucks, or 17000 more than their ‘17-‘19 average.
The moral here is GM navigated the “supply chain” issues incredibly better than Ford. Ford went off the rails, and hasn’t recovered yet. This should cause management to do a serious introspective look, and if they don’t see a problem, they aren't being intellectually honest. This would be a fantastic case study for an MBA student somewhere.
It’s time to stop blaming the supply chain, stop blaming dealers, and stop telling your customers to “shut up and wait.”
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2 hours ago, Yankst28 said:
It would be interesting to see only HD sales. A lot of those numbers from 150 sales
I’ll second that curiosity. My wife will argue they are focusing too many resources on the Lightning.
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1 hour ago, Melmore said:
Agree. Why do people think ordering a 2024 will be any different than a 2023? Ford is going a different direction than hd trucks. I'm going with a different company. At least they are building trucks-at the moment
I think it could change in ‘24. In my area, the Ford dealership lots are filling up with F150s, up to and including Platinums (or “Platinum-minus”, cause they are still missing options), and discounts are back. Same with GM, except they fixed almost all of their deletes due to supply chain problems in the latter half of ‘22. I’d say the trucks are piling up because of interest rates. So, as enough buyers are pushed to the sidelines, the situation should get better.
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Dealer lots in our area are starting to fill up with trucks, when they were barren before. Not Superduties, but F150s, up to and including quite a few Platinums (albeit missing options). I’m assuming interest rates must be having an effect. Maybe things will finally get straightened out in 2024 for Superduties as well.
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9 hours ago, Yankst28 said:
I’m with you. I have an AT4x and ZR2 ordered as well. Was honest with both dealers that I have fords ordered but am not confident they will be built. They were more then ok with it because they want high trim trucks they can sell if I back out.
I’m going to go ahead and put in a 450 Platinum order for ‘24. I don’t expect it will get built, but I’ll be ready to trade the Chevy dually High Country by then. If it shows up, great. If it doesn’t, I’ll be back in a GM again I guess.
Just for kicks, I checked to see if there are any F150 Platinums within a 100 mile radius of home. There are 84 (albeit missing options). I thought it was odd to find that many F150 Platinums available, with them building so few ‘23 Superduty Platinums.
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33 minutes ago, ImmortalJman said:
I hear you on the profit...but
1. I'm not really interested in playing that game.
2. Ild feel shitty selling a truck that wasn't built properly and then charging an insane amount for it.
And 3. It might be small but maybe it will let Ford know that I'm not happy that they're doing things this way.
Like everyone else has said, if it were something Ford would make good later and install, then ok. But a trim level feature that is missing, absolutely not. Now there lll be a whole lot of the 'same' trucks being sold second hand at some point and the only way to know if it has this feature is to go see it personally. Because no dealer is going to care and post that it's not there. And to be fair, if they were asked about it, they might not even know how to find out if it's there.
I'm sorry gentlemen but I'm a firm believer in voting with my wallet because money talks. I doubt it it will say anything in the current limited inventory climate but I'm still going to do it.
BTW: I don't believe there's a chance in hell of actually getting scheduled. Based off of sales orders left to complete, and that 48% of orders were H/O and how many production can actually accommodate for a F450 KR...there's no way it's going to happen. I'm already prepping myself for a MY24.
Agree on all points, I wouldn’t take it either without multi contour, and I’m not interested in the trading game either. The ‘23 model year KRs and above are going to be unicorns.
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2 hours ago, Yankst28 said:
I agree, I’m not sold on the 23 redesign. I do however really like the GMs. But I’m honestly done waiting 2 years for my Platinum which is why I also just ordered the Denali and a High Country. What sold me was when I drove a 24 high Country. The update to the duramax is very impressive. I know I know… haters are going to say the ford still has more horsepower and torque. But all I can say is drive one. The duramax is every bit as responsive as the powerstroke. They did it right with the Duramax update.
Aside from all the cameras, buttons, and technology I haven’t gotten used to yet, the thing I like the most is the Allison 10 speed. I’ve never in forty years driven any vehicle from any manufacturer that shifts as smooth as this tranny. If you didn’t hear the rpm change, you wouldn’t know it just shifted. I wish they had the multi contour seats though. But then, no guarantee I would have gotten them anyway with the F450. -
12 minutes ago, Dble Dewars said:
I kinda like the new front end on the 2024 HD Chevy. I’m not overly thrilled with the 23 SuperDuty grill. But I ordered a Lariat anyway. I just believe Ford builds a better truck.
That’s why I had the 450 on order. I have to say tho after driving the Chevy 3500 dually for 6 months now, it’s a pretty darn nice truck. No CP4 pump either.
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10 hours ago, Yankst28 said:
So I’m assuming the regional for rep stepped in on yours? I was told dealers could only go as low as a 10. Anything lower required the ford regional rep. This could be wrong and inaccurate. Just thought I saw that somewhere. Ice-capades may be able to verify
Don’t know, but the clock was going to start fresh with what the dealer said was another 6-9 months. It was a Platinum, so job 2. I figured the new estimate would likely be no better than the initial one I had in January of ‘22, so I pulled the plug and bought a Chevy High Country. As it turns out, that looks accurate. Maybe next time.
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14 minutes ago, Yankst28 said:
Currently have a priority code of 10 so doesn’t look like they’ve forgot about me. Was a 12 three weeks ago.
I was a 2, when the order had to be rolled to a ‘23.
And it had been a 2 for a while….
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On 5/20/2023 at 11:45 AM, brockb961 said:
The current order process only benefits high volume dealers, nor great Ford end customers. In the order process, the customers aren't even considered. If we were, LONG time Ford customers who buy from Ford and get their maintenance from Ford would get more priority in the order process. Instead, you have to have chosen just the right dealer to order from. As a very long term Ford customer, this is very frustrating, but the bottom line is Ford has proven they don't give a damn about customers like me. We just are not important. After all I have spent with Ford, I really don't like the way I am being treated as a customer.
There was a time when there really was no competition to Ford Super Duties. That's not really the case any more and the GM HD trucks are also very capable and have very nice interiors. I've had an order in since October 27, and neither the dealer or Ford are even able to tell me what to expect. So a month ago I also ordered a 2024 Chevy HD and that order has already been picked up. If the Chevy comes available before I even know when I can get my Ford, I'll take that one.
I suspect you are a Job 2 order?Your situation will likely dictate, but for what’s it’s worth, I really wish I had left my F450 Platty order out there, just to see how long it would have actually taken to get it. By then it may have been time to trade again anyway.
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1 hour ago, akirby said:
But your dealer isn’t losing existing sales. They still get (and sell) their allocation like they’ve always had. It may prevent them from getting some additional sales.And I’ve always been in favor of incremental allocation for retail orders and so has Ford. They’ve done it before on select vehicles and they did exactly what you want with the Bronco launch. Build by order sequence regardless of dealer with no allocation restrictions. Then Grainger lowballed prices and totally distorted the sales distribution which combined with production delays and supply chain issues forced them back to an allocation model.
Its much more complicated than just what you see as a consumer.
All this chatter doesn’t solve anything.The first step for an alcoholic to actually get better is for said alcoholic to actually acknowledge that a problem exists.
- A system that relies on dealer competence to manage an order bank so a customer can actually get a truck is BROKEN. Period. Fix it, Ford.
- A system that has a customer order a truck in January of ‘22, then VERY LIKELY not receive it in 2023 and have it roll to a ‘24 with God only knows how many more months of delay is BROKEN. Spare me the “supply chain issues” comments. GM got it figured out. Every single option on my High Country works. Fix it, Ford.
- Regarding the dealer protectionism allocation model…look at the Tesla model and my Elon Musk comment. He would have this BS at Ford fixed inside of two weeks.
“It’s much more complicated than just what you see as a consumer”
Huh?
No, not really.
All that matters is WHAT THE CONSUMER SEES.
That’s Marketing 101.
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10 minutes ago, blackduty said:
You said exactly what i was thinking. Because i have saw plenty of trucks that were ordered in the March/April timeframe, built and shipped already, Spec'd out similar to 10/27-11/2 ordered trucks, but those early ordered trucks are lost in the stacks of papers because the dealer they ordered from doesn't have allocation this week or month. And now when they should be getting scheduled, they miss the boat on it, because now it's upfitter integration holding it back, or some other thing, that was installed into a truck 2 weeks ago, because that dealer had allocation. When they had the parts a few weeks or a month ago to build them, they just didn't because this dealer had an allocation, so let's build that one, even though the order was placed a week ago, and piss on the guy who ordered 6 months ago. The whole allocation thing should be scrapped.
Wholeheartedly agree. This isn’t rocket science.We need Elon Musk to ditch Twitter and buy Ford.
He’d have this nonsense fixed inside of two weeks.
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26 minutes ago, blackduty said:
I got a buddy that ordered a 22 limited, back in 21, and never got it. It was converted to a 23 by his dealer, and he hasn't heard boo.
All good points, and this above is why we punted. I think seeing a ‘23 Platty or Limited will be about as rare as a Yeti sighting. Until enough brand agnostic folks (like me), together with enough blindly brand loyal folks, see the light and send them a message thru their purchase decisions, nothing will change (because it doesn’t have to).-
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On 5/13/2023 at 10:29 PM, Smurf830 said:
This all is so sad, especially for those who ordered the KRs, Plats and Limiteds during the opening of the MY23 order banks. I am one of those who did so. Really wanted and needed my King Ranch this summer. I've read elsewhere where the higher trims will be scheduled last. However I have not seen any verification of that.
I really thought Ford would be on top of their game as the MY23 super duties was billed as an all new truck. Problems with the OKTB and the issues with the EPA diesels and 7.3 should not have happened. Who would have guessed that the first super duties would not leave the plant until March and that no upper trims would be scheduled until the end of July.
Meanwhile, Ford's only real competitor, GM, was producing MY23 in December and started MY24 in March. GM is concentrating on building the upper trims now. They expect to attract former Ford super duty orders
I don't have time to wait for a truck that may or may not be built. I don't want to hear about supply chain issues. I don't want to hear excuses.
I did purchase a new 23 Duramax LTZ premium 3500 yesterday. It had a $6.5 discount off MRSP as it was last years model and only a $150 dealer add on for paperwork. My plans for the summer can go on. Sure wished that Ford had followed through with the excitement on the opening of the order banks for the MY23.
I did the same…bought a 3500HD High Country Chevy dually last October. I ordered an F450 Platinum in January of ‘22. Was told 5-9 months. Dealer and I had several communications over the summer, one of which was the multi contour seat delete. Then it was back on in September. In October, the dealer called and said the order will have to roll to a ‘23, and it will be another 6-9 months. Much to my surprise, I got on GM’s website that night and found 143 duallies inside a 500 mile radius, about half of which were sitting on dealer lots. Two were only 90 miles away. My wife and I talked it over, decided the new time estimate from Ford would probably not hold, and bought the Chevy the following week. I’ll wait until Ford gets this train wreck fixed, then be back for the F450.GM got things straightened out. It’s time for Ford to get it straightened out. Don’t take orders you can’t fill. Stop making excuses. Stop sending worthless emails about how sorry you are. The whole ordering system/dealer allocation process is infuriating. If dealer competence is a determining factor of when you get a truck, then the system is broken.
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2023 Super Duty Orders & Discussion
in F-Series SuperDuty Forum
Posted
Do you remember by chance what the tranny temp would run on your 450 when pulling? We just got back from the PNW, and in 100+ temps across northern Nevada the Allison tranny in our 3500 High Country dually would normally be +/- 175deg pulling a 15k lb fifth wheel RV. The highest I saw it get to was 181deg pulling a several mile long incline.
I had to punt on an F450 as well, or this summer’s trip wouldn’t have happened.
I’ve heard several guys say the Ford 10 speed runs up to and over 200deg (which may be fine).