gary112
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Posts posted by gary112
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vote NO!
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They wanna take your Job security-------SUB and JSP
They wanna take away your right to privacy---------Physicals
They want concessions on top of the concessions they already got------Performance Bonus
They wanna disrupt Your lives by placing you anywhere in the system.
They wanna bullshit you and tell you there will be dire conseqeunces if the vote fails.
Who is the IUAW working for? not us!
Vote NO!
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I wouldn't want to be starting a new job or business in this economy. I can't think of any job that would be safe except accounting firms that handle a lot of bankruptcies. I will keep my high seniority at Ford for as long as I can.
A job in the Medical field would be great because of all the heart attacks this fucked up agreement will cause.
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We would like to see an Independant unbiased Company come in and count the Votes>
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NO!!!!!!!!!!!!
HELL NO!
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I will need to see the real agreement.
If retirees are untouched.
Everyone from Mulaly down gets their pay cut drastically.
And we get more investments in our plants.
My base wage is not cut.
And my benefits stay where they are right now
I will be voting yes
Ive said it before do it now there is no second chance..... Thje next step will be a bankruptcy judge making us work for $12 dollars per hour.
Sorry, I 'm not willing to take that chance
My job is precious to me.
By voting yes, you are opening the door to future concessions. Once they get it they want more and more. How are your benefits staying the same? They are taking away your lump sum bonus which by the way is your raise negotiated a year and a half ago, and they are cutting your SUB pay and we don't even know all the other details yet. It looks like your precious job will pay $12 per hour in the future with your yes vote.
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Big 3 Concessions Leak, More Big Cuts
— Jane Slaughter
Although nothing is official yet, word of the United Auto Workers’ planned concessions to the Big 3 leaked out yesterday. Any contract changes must be ratified by rank-and-file members. The union is silent on when workers will be told of the changes and asked to vote.
Reportedly, workers are asked to:
give up two lump-sum bonuses. These bonuses were negotiated in fall 2007 in lieu of wage increases. The four-year 2007 agreement included a wage freeze for the life of the contract, which will continue.
give up cost-of-living allowance. Although the formula was imperfect and the union had agreed to many “diversions” (subtractions) from COLA over the years, the COLA clause was designed to keep wages from falling behind inflation.
give up a $600 Christmas bonus (at Chrysler).
receive time-and-a-half pay only for work beyond 40 hours in a week, rather than work beyond 8 hours in a day.
reduce Supplemental Unemployment Benefits (SUB) pay. A special fund at each company had topped up laid-off workers’ pay. The funds are not bottomless and have run dry in the past. Unknown at this point is whether company contributions will be cut or eliminated. Under the proposal, those with more than 20 years of service may still collect SUB pay for 52 weeks at the traditional 72 percent of gross pay and another 52 weeks at half pay. Workers with less than 20 years will get 72 percent SUB pay for 39 weeks and half pay for an additional 39 weeks.
give up some work rules. This could mean anything, but is sure to make life on the job harsher.
accept reductions in skilled-trade jobs, also vague but a long-held management goal. Skilled workers are paid more and have far greater job control than production workers. Management has wanted to use “jacks of all trades” rather than highly skilled workers, and for a long time has been contracting out as much skilled work as possible.
Activists predicted that the overtime issue would generate the most anger among workers.
The concessions were demanded by the Obama administration as part of a “viability plan” the companies must present in exchange for loans. Although only Chrysler and GM have asked for loans, the UAW will make concessions to Ford as well, so as not to put Ford at a competitive disadvantage.
It was noticeable that most of the concessions eliminate benefits that most U.S. workers don’t enjoy: COLA, SUB pay, time-and-a-half after eight hours. Likewise, asking workers to give up something called a “bonus” doesn’t sound so bad—if you don’t know that it’s a substitute for a pay increase.
“Overprivileged” auto workers once again are getting a drubbing from their betters in the media and in Congress, all of whom see nothing outrageous in their own much higher salaries. It bears repeating: there are good reasons that auto jobs have been well-paid, relatively speaking, for over 50 years. First, before the 1980s, they belonged to a union that fought. Second, these jobs stink. You need to pay people a lot of money to be willing to spend 30 years, day after day, on an assembly line. Companies have been willing to shell out in order to get reliable workers who show up and take good care of their expensive equipment. If the pay’s no longer good, it’s not worth it.
It also bears repeating that the average hourly wage of auto workers is not the ridiculous $73 per hour figure floated in the press. The major cost difference between the Big 3 and its competitors is health care for hundreds of thousands of retirees that Mercedes-Benz and Toyota don’t have.
The concessions demanded by the Obama administration and the Big 3 would not be the first. Previously given up:
Pay for new-hires who work in “non-core” jobs, i.e., off the assembly line, at GM and Chrysler. At Ford, the cuts apply to all new-hires. Pay was slashed in half, to $14 an hour, in the 2007 contracts.
The Jobs Bank, which paid unused workers most of their pay and enabled the companies to send them out for work on community projects (though often companies didn’t bother and left them playing cards in the break room).
Full funding for retiree health care. In 2007 control of payouts for GM and Ford retiree health care were moved to a union-run trust (VEBA), but with inadequate funding from the companies—they paid about half of estimated future costs. Now the loan provisions for GM require the union to take company stock for half the money still owed to the VEBAs. This point is still under negotiation, and the union seems to be resisting taking stock, which would become just about worthless if GM goes bankrupt. GM stock dropped from $29 per share last year to $2.06 in mid-February.
According to Bloomberg News, GM CEO Rick Wagoner said more concessions were in the offing. “It doesn’t get us all the way there,” Wagoner said. “We’ve got some other ideas to close out the rest.”
VOTE HELL NO!
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The UAW said today it has reached an agreement with Ford Motor Co. on modifications to its Voluntary Employee Beneficiary Association, which is a retiree health care trust fund.
The union and Ford previously announced a tentative agreement to modify other aspects of its 2007 labor contract, but Ford had said all agreements were contingent on reaching an agreement to modify the retiree trust fund, commonly called a VEBA.
The UAW and each of the domestic automakers agreed to create a union-managed retiree health care trust fund during contract talks in 2007, and the UAW is scheduled to begin managing the fund in 2010. Since 2007, automotive sales have deteriorated along with the financial condition of the automakers.
General Motors Corp. and Chrysler LLC have received $17.4 billion in government loans and are required by those loan agreements to ask the UAW to accept stock payments instead of cash payments to fund their VEBAs. Ford, which has not applied for government loans, also asked the UAW to agree to modifications to fund the VEBA.
Typically, the UAW uses agreements it reaches with one automaker as a template for negotiations with other automakers.
Ford said it is pleased with the tentative agreement and said it requires the Dearborn-based automaker to pursue restructuring actions with other stakeholders. Ford has previously defined stakeholders to include bondholders, employees, suppliers and dealers.
Ford said the tentative agreement gives it the option to meet its VEBA payment obligations with Ford common stock for up to 50% of each scheduled payment.
“We will consider each payment when it is due and use our discretion in determining whether cash or stock makes sense at the time, balancing our liquidity needs and preserving shareholder value,” Joe Hinrichs, Ford’s group vice president of global manufacturing and labor affairs, said in a statement.
The UAW did not disclose the details of its agreement with Ford. The union said the proposed changes will be presented to the union’s local leadership at a council meeting early this week. Any changes to the contract are subject to approval of the UAW membership at Ford. In addition, proposed changes to the VEBA will require court approval.
“We appreciate the solidarity, understanding and patience the members have demonstrated throughout the bargaining process,” UAW President Ron Gettelfinger said in a statement. “The modifications will protect jobs for UAW members by ensuring the long-term viability of the company.”
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We are getting screwed in this deal. They got us into this mess.
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They will tell us we must ratify this agreement so they don't have to get Government loans. Then after bullshitting everyone, they get this passed. Down the road they will say, oh shit, we need the gov. loans. And back they go into negotiations to take back more. It won't end untill we are making $14 per hour, paying most of our healthcare, and ellimate retirement for a non matching 401k plan.
VOTE NO!
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UAW, Detroit 3 reach tentative deal
By BRENT SNAVELY • FREE PRESS BUSINESS WRITER • February 17, 2009
Just as General Motors Corp. and Chrysler LLC filed viability plans with the U.S. Treasury today, the UAW said it has reached tentative agreements with each of Detroit’s automakers to modify its 2007 national contract in order to help the companies survive a severe economic recession and meet the terms of their federal loans.
GM and Chrysler have received $13.4 billion in federal loans, while Ford Motor Co. — which is relatively healthier, despite a record $14.6 billion loss in 2008 — has not tapped any federal aid.
“The changes will help these companies face the extraordinarily difficult economic climate in which they operate,” UAW President Ron Gettelfinger said in a statement.
However, the UAW said negotiations over how to modify a retiree health care fund are ongoing. In its 2007 contract talks, the UAW agreed to manage and operate a health care fund for its retirees. The move took billions of dollars in liabilities off the balance sheets of the automakers.
Loan agreements reached between GM and Chrysler and the Bush administration called for the UAW to accept shares of stock instead of cash for a portion of the payments for that trust, known as a VEBA, but the UAW has signaled that it is objecting to those provisions.
Disagreements over how to fund that Voluntary Employees Beneficiary Association, or VEBA, was among the issued that caused talks between the UAW, Chrysler and GM to stop and restart several times over the past several days as the companies worked furiously to meet today’s deadline to craft viability plans required by $17.4 billion in government loans.
“The UAW is withholding the terms of the tentative understanding pending completion of the VEBA discussions and ratification of the agreements,” Gettelfinger said in his statement Tuesday.
Still, the announcement by the UAW on Tuesday shows that the union and the companies are making significant progress.
Ford said in a statement Tuesday that if the UAW’s members ratify the tentative agreement, it will “help Ford operate through the current economic downturn without accessing a U.S. government bridge loan.”
Ford said its agreement, reached Sunday afternoon, includes modified provisions on labor costs, benefits and operating practices that allow Ford to reach competitive parity with foreign-owned automakers’ manufacturing operations in the U.S.
Tentative agreement? Is it 2011 already? Damn that time sure flew by. Vote NO!
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UAW, Detroit 3 reach tentative deal
By BRENT SNAVELY • FREE PRESS BUSINESS WRITER • February 17, 2009
Just as General Motors Corp. and Chrysler LLC filed viability plans with the U.S. Treasury today, the UAW said it has reached tentative agreements with each of Detroit’s automakers to modify its 2007 national contract in order to help the companies survive a severe economic recession and meet the terms of their federal loans.
GM and Chrysler have received $13.4 billion in federal loans, while Ford Motor Co. — which is relatively healthier, despite a record $14.6 billion loss in 2008 — has not tapped any federal aid.
“The changes will help these companies face the extraordinarily difficult economic climate in which they operate,” UAW President Ron Gettelfinger said in a statement.
However, the UAW said negotiations over how to modify a retiree health care fund are ongoing. In its 2007 contract talks, the UAW agreed to manage and operate a health care fund for its retirees. The move took billions of dollars in liabilities off the balance sheets of the automakers.
Loan agreements reached between GM and Chrysler and the Bush administration called for the UAW to accept shares of stock instead of cash for a portion of the payments for that trust, known as a VEBA, but the UAW has signaled that it is objecting to those provisions.
Disagreements over how to fund that Voluntary Employees Beneficiary Association, or VEBA, was among the issued that caused talks between the UAW, Chrysler and GM to stop and restart several times over the past several days as the companies worked furiously to meet today’s deadline to craft viability plans required by $17.4 billion in government loans.
“The UAW is withholding the terms of the tentative understanding pending completion of the VEBA discussions and ratification of the agreements,” Gettelfinger said in his statement Tuesday.
Still, the announcement by the UAW on Tuesday shows that the union and the companies are making significant progress.
Ford said in a statement Tuesday that if the UAW’s members ratify the tentative agreement, it will “help Ford operate through the current economic downturn without accessing a U.S. government bridge loan.”
Ford said its agreement, reached Sunday afternoon, includes modified provisions on labor costs, benefits and operating practices that allow Ford to reach competitive parity with foreign-owned automakers’ manufacturing operations in the U.S.
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It seems like the smart thing to do. Ford is doing the best and therefore should be able to hammer out the best deal for the workers. If GM and Chrysler reached an agreement first it most likely would have greater concessions and then UAW/Ford would be in a position to accept the same deal. It's the same thing as negotiating the national contract. Usually the strongest of the three was picked to negotiate the pattern agreement. It's also good PR for Ford and the UAW and could make the new products more favorable in the public's eye.
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Vote NO! We reached an agreement in 2007. Our contract does not expire until 2011. We dont have a deadline like the other two. We already took concessions.
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SOUTHFIELD, Michigan: Ford Motor became the focus of United Auto Workers negotiations over the weekend after talks with General Motors and Chrysler stalled.
The union objected to GM and Chrysler proposals to modify a retiree health-care fund that Alan Reuther, a UAW lobbyist, said went beyond the requirements of the U.S. Treasury loans that the two automakers are relying on to survive. The U.S. government requires signed preliminary labor agreements by Tuesday, though it has not said what the consequences would be for missing the deadline.
Ford continues talking with the union, said the company spokesman, Mark Truby, who declined to characterize the talks.
"What this reflects is that the UAW has a better relationship with Ford and feels that an agreement that suits both sides can be reached and can then be spread to the other automakers," said Harley Shaiken, a labor professor for the University of California, Berkeley.
The terms of the Dec. 19 loan agreements from the U.S. Treasury require GM and Chrysler to convince the UAW to accept half of scheduled payments into a union-run retiree health-care fund next year in equity instead of cash. The automakers are also seeking to eliminate supplemental unemployment pay and to change plant work rules to trim labor expenses.
Today in Business with Reuters
Europe's economic slump deeper than expectedU.S. House approves $787 billion stimulus billWithout a cure for toxic assets, credit crisis will persistFord had said it expected to receive whatever concessions the UAW granted GM and Chrysler, and Ron Gettelfinger, the union's president, said last month that Ford would likely get similar concessions.
The GM and Chrysler proposals on the Voluntary Employee Beneficiary Association "contradict the explicit terms of the Treasury loan agreements, and would severely hurt retirees," Reuther said in an e-mail message. "These proposals are a non-starter as far as the UAW is concerned."
In GM's case, the union must sign off on a cash contribution of $10.2 billion to the fund instead of $20.4 billion, GM said last month. The UAW already agreed to accept reduced cash payments into the health-care fund, which was established under the 2007 contract that let automakers pay new workers half as much as traditional union employees.
Gettelfinger said in 2007 that the union was confident the fund could pay the health-care benefits of retirees for the next 80 years. He has said he is willing to make additional sacrifices to help the automakers avoid bankruptcy if auto executives, debt holders and others also sacrifice.
Lori McTavish, the Chrysler spokeswoman, and Tony Sapienza, the GM spokesman, declined to comment over the weekend on the status of the talks. Sapienza said Friday that GM was committed to meeting the Tuesday deadline. Chrysler, 80.1 percent of which is owned by Cerberus Capital Management, said it also planned to meet the deadline.
The automakers are also asking the union to end a 54-year-old benefit that ensures almost full pay during layoffs.
The so-called "supplemental unemployment benefit" gives laid-off workers most of their take-home wages. Automakers and the UAW were discussing the future of the program, said people familiar with the talks, who asked not to be identified because the negotiations were private. The UAW was not negotiating cuts in core wages or benefits, the people said.
If GM cannot win agreement from the UAW and creditors to reduce its debt, analysts say the Obama administration will face a politically tough choice: either pump billions of dollars more into the automaker or steer it toward bankruptcy as some critics of the bailout have urged. Under Rick Wagoner, its chief executive, GM has resisted suggestions that it would be better able to restructure under a court-supervised bankruptcy. Wagoner and other executives have argued that consumers would shun GM cars and trucks if it were in bankruptcy, sending already weak sales into an irreversible tailspin.
Gettelfinger has balked at saddling retired workers with additional risk by taking devalued GM stock instead of cash. GM has received $9.4 billion from the U.S. government and has been pledged another $4 billion if it can show it can be viable at a time when U.S. auto sales are near 30-year lows.
A bankruptcy filing would allow GM to rework its contracts with creditors, the UAW, dealers and its suppliers. But it would also mean even steeper job losses. GM, Chrysler and Ford have cut 250,000 jobs since the start of the decade and are looking to cut more. GM and Chrysler are offering buyouts for most of their 91,000 UAW workers.
Chrysler has been given $4 billion in emergency funding from the U.S. Treasury and is seeking another $3 billion.
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Auto Workers’ 54-Year Safety-Net Pay May Be Scrapped in Talks
By Jeff Green and Keith Naughton
Feb. 13 (Bloomberg) -- General Motors Corp. and Chrysler LLC, trying to keep $17.4 billion in U.S. aid, are asking the United Auto Workers union to end a 54-year-old benefit that ensures almost full pay during layoffs.
The so-called “supplemental unemployment benefit,” or “SUB” pay, gives laid-off workers most of their take-home wages. Automakers and the UAW are discussing the future of the program, said people familiar with the talks, who asked not to be named because the negotiations are private. The UAW isn’t negotiating cuts in core wages or benefits, the people said.
Lacking the cushion, older union members may retire and make way for new hires who are paid half as much, people familiar with the bargaining strategy said. Members of Congress who opposed an auto bailout criticized the benefits, and the U.S. Treasury loans require the automakers to stop all but “customary severance pay” to laid-off employees.
“This would really be unwinding five decades of gains and that would be very, very tough for the union,” said Harley Shaiken, labor-relations professor at University of California in Berkeley. “It was part of Walter Reuther’s dream to have the person on the line treated the same as the white-collar worker,” he said, referring to the longtime UAW president.
GM and Chrysler are offering buyouts for most of their 91,000 UAW workers. GM spokeswoman Tony Sapienza had no comment on his company’s labor strategy. UAW spokeswoman Christine Moroski declined to comment on the negotiations.
GM and Chrysler must show progress on labor and creditor savings by Feb. 17 as part of the requirements to keep the loans.
Long-Standing Benefits
The two automakers in the last two weeks eliminated the so- called jobs bank, a 25-year-old program that paid UAW employees their full salary to report to work with no duties to perform, which was also criticized by Congressional Republicans last year.
SUB pay gives laid-off workers as much as 95 percent of net pay. For example, a UAW assembly-plant worker takes home about $855 after taxes. If that worker were laid off in Michigan, he would receive about $782, made up of $362 in state unemployment benefits and $420 in company-paid SUB pay, according to union documents and estimates prepared by automakers.
“When workers are on layoff, this is critically important in enabling people to pay their mortgage, put food on the table and pay their heating bills,” said UAW legislative affairs director Alan Reuther, a nephew of Walter Reuther, who won the benefit at the bargaining table in 1955. “It also is an incentive for the companies to better plan their operations.”
Ford Wants Concessions
Ford Motor Co., the only U.S. automaker to forego federal aid, has said it expects to receive whatever concessions the UAW grants GM and Chrysler. Ford negotiators weren’t involved in talks at the union’s Detroit headquarters yesterday, said a source familiar with the situation. Ford spokesman Mark Truby declined to comment.
Cutting SUB pay, changing union work rules, such as the definition of so-called skilled-trades workers, and cutting absenteeism are part of an effort to get compensation competitive with the U.S. factories of Japanese automakers, such as Toyota Motor Corp., another requirement of the federal loans.
Cutting SUB pay may turn out to be a bad strategy, said Dennis Pawley, the head of manufacturing at former Chrysler Corp. from 1991 to 1998.
“SUB pay preserves your workforce,” said Pawley, who was involved in Chrysler’s labor strategy. “Without it you have people marching off looking for another job.”
UAW negotiations are expected to go through the weekend with the goal of getting a preliminary agreement before the Feb. 17 report is due, two people familiar with the discussions said. The union is predicating any give-backs on the automakers extracting concessions from their bondholders.
‘Bondholders Will Be Furious’
Advisers to GM’s debt holders are in discussions to reduce $27.5 billion in unsecured debt to about $9.2 billion by swapping for equity, said two people close to the talks.
“The bondholders will be furious” that the union won’t consider cuts to wages, medical and pension benefits, Sean McAlinden, chief economist with the Center for Automotive Research, said in an e-mail. “But they already know.”
UAW Vice President General Holiefield, in a Jan. 22 letter to UAW local Chrysler presidents said SUB pay might be a target of negotiations. Chrysler President Jim Press said yesterday that the No. 3 U.S. automaker is meeting this week with the UAW and creditors. Chrysler, privately owned by Cerberus Capital Management LP, doesn’t have unsecured debtholders.
Forced Hand
If GM and Chrysler can’t persuade the UAW and bondholders to agree to new terms, the government could force the automakers to return the loans or convert them into funding for a government- backed bankruptcy. GM Chief Executive Officer Rick Wagoner told Congress in November that Chapter 11 would lead to liquidation because shoppers won’t buy from a bankrupt automaker.
GM also said this week it will eliminate 10,000 of its 73,000 salaried workers and cut the pay of many of those who remain.
“At some point the companies are going to pay the price for the experience level of the people walking out the door,” Pawley said. “I worry terribly that the guts have been torn out of these companies.”
To contact the reporters
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gary112,
He no longer works, just look at the post's this is this person's Job start rumor's, some TRUE , But mostly FALSE or FAR Stretched.... He must be a Inside STRBA Backer or former one .. :hyper:
This is an employee forum. If he does not work for Ford anymore, he is not an employee. Therefore, he should stop the bullshit and find another website like shitstarters .com
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You guys and gals should all suck Cock. Your chairman is a Hero and y'all re-elected him. Shut the Fuck up and get to work. I guess only the whiner's in Lima are computer literate. Suck it up and be happy you have work. The International UAW wouldn't take away Lima's shining star chairman. They are waiting on the next young American idol to come from the underground and lead them into the next decade. Gas is only $4.00 a gallon how long do you think it will be before we are all riding bikes like a third world nation. NAFTA works it brings us down to a third world pay grade. Free trade means lower wages. yes we will catch up to the Mexicans. Hey at least the Canadian government looks out for their workers.
Hey porno mouth. You can make your point without the being totally vulgar.
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Do you even still work at Ford? And you were laid off from where?
CSMJ You still have refused to answer my question. Do you still work at Ford? Where?
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Do you even still work at Ford? And you were laid off from where?
CSMJ You havn't answered my question.
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We were laidoff!! I was one of them i was told to report to BK on june 4th 2001 or quit so DONT TELL ME WE were not FORCED!!!!
It was in zone you CANNOT turn it down!!!!!!!
So get your facts straight!!!!!!!!!! Peace out!!!!!!!!
Do you even still work at Ford? And you were laid off from where?
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you can stay at avon if you choose. your there permanently until ford offers you to go back to bk.
lets not forget the ones in lorain who stayed there when ford brought achers from sandusky 3 years ago. you never know it may happen again because sandusky is closing and the ford people have to get out so ford may move them to bk when the 400 jobs open up. it can happen as it already has in 04.
the 184 came to bk for the same reason you went to avon they were forced and so what if 160 are still here its all legal contracyual so stop bitching you cant change it!!!!!!!
You are wrong!!! 184 people wer NOT forced to BP. Get your facts straight.
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You know exactly what I'm talking about, I know you understood my statement. Gary, like I said stay in Brookpark unless you are not ready to work. Now what part of this statement DON'T you understand. 
I always found it hard to understand someone when they are writing on a 2nd grade level.
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I don't even understand why you guys are coming! With the cost of fuel rising, our orders are dropping. By fall we will end up knocking off a shift, and even the people we have currently will be in JSP. So you guys will transfer here, just to get laid off and report to our JSP instead of Brookpark's JSP WTF! Same pay, only you will pay more in gas and travel time to receive it!
We are coming there because we have to not because we want to. CEP #1 will be launchng later this year and we will come back to BP. Our jobs at Avon are temporary unlike over 200 Avon people who bolted to Brookpark in 2001.
No Second Chance
in Ford Employee Forum
Posted · Edited by gary112