What Went Wrong

[Hobbitt]

Here is a classic case:

 

The hi-lo driver feeding the line comes back from lunch s**tfaced.

 

The line workers are scared to death he is going to kill them delivering parts.

 

Upholding the Union model of don't be rat, they call me, or one of the reps. underneath me, and say, "This guy is s**tfaced. I am afraid that he is going to kill me."

 

In any event, this all gets to me quickly.

 

So, what is the right answer?

 

Do I bust him? That doesn't seem like I represented him very well.

 

Do I tell the line workers to shut up? That doesn't seem like I represented them very well.

 

And, there is the ESSP program to throw in the mix. Our work is hard and this program is recognition of that.

 

What is the right answer?

 

How does a person handle the various and competing fiduciary responsibilities?

 

After all, every one of those people I had agreed to protect and defend.

You walk his drunken ass off the floor, before he does kill someone. He then only gets 3 days for "Out of assigned work area", instead of a week for being drunk. You then give him a choice to go to ESSP and get help. You tell him that was his one free pass. You have protected and defended everyone involved, the only one that loses anything is the person who was at fault. Next?

[Furious1Auto]

Well, as for your sentiment that you are glad I am not your rep., I can assure you that others clearly agreed with you. However, I was never voted out of office.

 

I can also tell you this: Every single rep. I know has made mistakes. The mistakes at district level are different then the mistakes at the plant chairman level or the international level, to be sure, but they are still mistakes.

 

I have made errors in judgment at every level I occupied.

 

I did not try to make mistakes, but, after considering the various courses of action, I have, from time to time and with hindsight as my guide, chosen badly. That is called the law of unintended consequences, amongst my supporters, and sheer stupidity, amongst my detractors.

 

Here is a classic case:

 

The hi-lo driver feeding the line comes back from lunch s**tfaced.

 

The line workers are scared to death he is going to kill them delivering parts.

 

Upholding the Union model of don't be rat, they call me, or one of the reps. underneath me, and say, "This guy is s**tfaced. I am afraid that he is going to kill me."

 

In any event, this all gets to me quickly.

 

So, what is the right answer?

 

Do I bust him? That doesn't seem like I represented him very well.

 

Do I tell the line workers to shut up? That doesn't seem like I represented them very well.

 

And, there is the ESSP program to throw in the mix. Our work is hard and this program is recognition of that.

 

What is the right answer?

 

How does a person handle the various and competing fiduciary responsibilities?

 

After all, every one of those people I had agreed to protect and defend.

 

As for your first question, I read a NYTimes’ article, Governor Challenges Utah’s Conservative Verities, that I find most hopeful in illustrating the point.

 

And, yes, I totally get the irony.

 

The Republican Party has been abused in the last two election cycles. Governor Huntsman’s has embraced a different view from mainstream Republican orthodoxy.

 

It does not make him any more or any less of a Republican any more than those who have, shall we say "process issues with the I-UAW" makes those people any more or less pro-Union.

 

Gov. Huntsman, and others like him, are attempting to mold the shape of the Republican party.

 

Likewise, many of the people who post on BON are trying to shape the UAW.

 

I'm going to leave you alone, I can see that you must be a very old man. Some of your posts have wisdom, it just seems your thoughts are cluttered with second guesses. I believe that you have taken your licks over the years, and I suppose you are due some respect for these sacrifices. The simple truth is that until you challenge people on this site, you cannot know what side of the fence they are on. That's why I hate this site. However I do enjoy arguing from time to time.

 

No hard feelings Sam, just please remember these are real people, and don't be quick to judge those for their beliefs. I meant that the entire democratic process needs reform. You will know that what I am saying is true if you refer back to the intentions of the founders that set the bureaucracies up. The government and the union alike were initially structured to serve the people and give them all say in our future's. However they were established hundreds of years ago, and only with the tools that were available at that time. Just like the company we have got to use the tools we have at our disposal now to allow the processes to evolve to remain relevant, and to continue to serve their intended purpose.

 

I just have one question to drive my point. Would Ford be obsolete, if they still continued to operate their business like they did 100 years ago?

Edited March 15, 2009 by Furious1Auto

[Sam Gompers]

You walk his drunken ass off the floor, before he does kill someone. He then only gets 3 days for "Out of assigned work area", instead of a week for being drunk. You then give him a choice to go to ESSP and get help. You tell him that was his one free pass. You have protected and defended everyone involved, the only one that loses anything is the person who was at fault. Next?

 

 

And, that is what I did. Two choose ESSP. Three choose option number two.

 

Of the two who choose ESSP one succeed and one failed. I always wondered if I could have or should have helped number #2 more.

 

Of the three that choose option #2, all were terminated.

 

Two of three, I got there jobs back.

 

Of those two, both lost their jobs.

[Hi Ho Silver]

And, that is what I did. Two choose ESSP. Three choose option number two.

 

Of the two who choose ESSP one succeed and one failed. I always wondered if I could have or should have helped number #2 more.

 

Of the three that choose option #2, all were terminated.

 

Two of three, I got there jobs back.

 

Of those two, both lost their jobs.

 

 

Your an idiot, that is why you didn't even bother to run again. Npt because of a couple of drunks, because you can't make a decision dummy. Geez, you second guess everything. Again, I am glad your not my rep. I too am new here and I read a lot of posts, most of them are stupid also. there are a few good ones, and from reading these posts i learned about a few people. You obviously don't have that ability since you came in and tried to get people to join your OP club like you were a phsycologist analizing their posts. Thats funny. Now evryone jumps on you like hyenas on a carcass, thats funny too. Kinda consistent with what you experienced in the plant as a rep huh? DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

[Hi Ho Silver]

You walk his drunken ass off the floor, before he does kill someone. He then only gets 3 days for "Out of assigned work area", instead of a week for being drunk. You then give him a choice to go to ESSP and get help. You tell him that was his one free pass. You have protected and defended everyone involved, the only one that loses anything is the person who was at fault. Next?

 

[Sam Gompers]

Your an idiot, that is why you didn't even bother to run again. Npt because of a couple of drunks, because you can't make a decision dummy. Geez, you second guess everything. Again, I am glad your not my rep. I too am new here and I read a lot of posts, most of them are stupid also. there are a few good ones, and from reading these posts i learned about a few people. You obviously don't have that ability since you came in and tried to get people to join your OP club like you were a phsycologist analizing their posts. Thats funny. Now evryone jumps on you like hyenas on a carcass, thats funny too. Kinda consistent with what you experienced in the plant as a rep huh? DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

 

 

No, I did not run again, because I went to I-UAW.

 

As for seconding guessing, I think you misunderstand. I clearly blew some decisions. On the other side of the coin, I also made some very good ones. And, on some decisions, I do wonder if I did the right thing. There really are not many of those, though.

 

On black and white matters (like what does the contract say right now), making the right decision is always easy. On many other matters (like what should the contract say in the future) there is not a clear black-and-white answer.

 

And, there were always questions that needed to be answered.

 

What about quality? What do I need to do to help make that better?

 

What about absenteeism? The vast majority of the people I represent go to work. How do I protect them from being drug down by the guys/gals who "show up four days a week, because I can't live on three days week pay" while doing my job of protecting all member, including those who do not show up to work regularly?

 

What do I have to do to get new product?

 

What do I need to do to protect skilled trades?

 

What do I need to do to protect production?

 

The company is saying classification X can also do ten other tasks and those tasks must be done by classification X to make us competitive. Can they actually do those tasks and what other classifications will it affect? It there a better way to address the issue?

 

Almost all approaches offer different levels of risks and rewards.

 

In spite of doing due diligence, talking the matter over with my bargaining team and the I-UAW, some times the approached I took worked and sometimes it did not work. That is just how it goes.

 

I will ask this: What decisions would you make regarding the future of our union? What do you want to see? What would you like to happen?

 

What are we good at? What are we not so good at? How do we get better?

[takeme back 2blue]

:tequila:

[Pulse]

No, I did not run again, because I went to I-UAW.

 

As for seconding guessing, I think you misunderstand. I clearly blew some decisions. On the other side of the coin, I also made some very good ones. And, on some decisions, I do wonder if I did the right thing. There really are not many of those, though.

 

On black and white matters (like what does the contract say right now), making the right decision is always easy. On many other matters (like what should the contract say in the future) there is not a clear black-and-white answer.

 

And, there were always questions that needed to be answered.

 

What about quality? What do I need to do to help make that better?

 

What about absenteeism? The vast majority of the people I represent go to work. How do I protect them from being drug down by the guys/gals who "show up four days a week, because I can't live on three days week pay" while doing my job of protecting all member, including those who do not show up to work regularly?

 

What do I have to do to get new product?

 

What do I need to do to protect skilled trades?

 

What do I need to do to protect production?

 

The company is saying classification X can also do ten other tasks and those tasks must be done by classification X to make us competitive. Can they actually do those tasks and what other classifications will it affect? It there a better way to address the issue?

 

Almost all approaches offer different levels of risks and rewards.

 

In spite of doing due diligence, talking the matter over with my bargaining team and the I-UAW, some times the approached I took worked and sometimes it did not work. That is just how it goes.

 

I will ask this: What decisions would you make regarding the future of our union? What do you want to see? What would you like to happen?

 

What are we good at? What are we not so good at? How do we get better?

 

 

I hope that for the time being, you are not involved in the final say so. Hi-Ho mentioned something about "an idiot" and quite frankly, that's the picture you are portraying. If you are looking for sympathy; this is the wrong place. Why would you demean yourself as an IUEW appointee. You need to have the answers. That is something to consider when you take a job like that! Jeeze

[Hi Ho Silver]

No, I did not run again, because I went to I-UAW.

 

As for seconding guessing, I think you misunderstand. I clearly blew some decisions. On the other side of the coin, I also made some very good ones. And, on some decisions, I do wonder if I did the right thing. There really are not many of those, though.

 

On black and white matters (like what does the contract say right now), making the right decision is always easy. On many other matters (like what should the contract say in the future) there is not a clear black-and-white answer.

 

And, there were always questions that needed to be answered.

 

What about quality? What do I need to do to help make that better?

 

What about absenteeism? The vast majority of the people I represent go to work. How do I protect them from being drug down by the guys/gals who "show up four days a week, because I can't live on three days week pay" while doing my job of protecting all member, including those who do not show up to work regularly?

 

What do I have to do to get new product?

 

What do I need to do to protect skilled trades?

 

What do I need to do to protect production?

 

The company is saying classification X can also do ten other tasks and those tasks must be done by classification X to make us competitive. Can they actually do those tasks and what other classifications will it affect? It there a better way to address the issue?

 

Almost all approaches offer different levels of risks and rewards.

 

In spite of doing due diligence, talking the matter over with my bargaining team and the I-UAW, some times the approached I took worked and sometimes it did not work. That is just how it goes.

 

I will ask this: What decisions would you make regarding the future of our union? What do you want to see? What would you like to happen?

 

What are we good at? What are we not so good at? How do we get better?

 

[Hi Ho Silver]

No, I did not run again, because I went to I-UAW.

 

[Sam Gompers]

I hope that for the time being, you are not involved in the final say so. Hi-Ho mentioned something about "an idiot" and quite frankly, that's the picture you are portraying. If you are looking for sympathy; this is the wrong place. Why would you demean yourself as an IUEW appointee. You need to have the answers. That is something to consider when you take a job like that! Jeeze

 

 

Pulse,

 

I "need to have the answers?" You must joking. We are, in case you missed it, in the worst economic times for the U.S. auto industry ever. There is foreign competition. There is the credit crunch. There is the recession/depression. There is the collapse of the housing bubble. There is OPEC, who just recently in the news, was speaking of restricting oil supply and, thereby, raising the prices of oil and gas. There is not fair trade, only free trade.

 

And, I "need to have the answers?"

 

If I had, for a fact, all of the correct answers I would not be a measly I-UAW rep, but a multi-billionaire.

 

Having said all of that, I can personally assure (for whatever that is worth) that almost everyone at the I-UAW is working on making your job secure at a wage and benefit scale you can live on.

 

The first step was this concessionary contract.

 

The decisions were based upon economic modeling.

 

To boil down ever simpler, past recessions are reviewed and a factor for current economic events is added to the past performance. That is the starting point for the discussion from our side.

 

At the same time, the company toss in its predictions about what will happen over the course of time.

 

At some point, a rough dollar figure for concessions purposes, is determined.

 

The fine print comes in with what those concessions will be. That is actually the easiest part of the process.

 

Is it enough?

 

We think so based upon all of our research and experience and due diligence.

 

Can I guarantee you that?

 

No, I can't.

 

I can say, without any doubt, that the UAW HAS NEVER made an employer go bankrupt. Nor, in my opinion, will it EVER DO SO.

 

Our job is to fight for your job.

[Pulse]

Pulse,

 

I "need to have the answers?" You must joking. We are, in case you missed it, in the worst economic times for the U.S. auto industry ever. There is foreign competition. There is the credit crunch. There is the recession/depression. There is the collapse of the housing bubble. There is OPEC, who just recently in the news, was speaking of restricting oil supply and, thereby, raising the prices of oil and gas. There is not fair trade, only free trade.

 

And, I "need to have the answers?"

 

If I had, for a fact, all of the correct answers I would not be a measly I-UAW rep, but a multi-billionaire.

 

Having said all of that, I can personally assure (for whatever that is worth) that almost everyone at the I-UAW is working on making your job secure at a wage and benefit scale you can live on.

 

The first step was this concessionary contract.

 

The decisions were based upon economic modeling.

 

To boil down ever simpler, past recessions are reviewed and a factor for current economic events is added to the past performance. That is the starting point for the discussion from our side.

 

At the same time, the company toss in its predictions about what will happen over the course of time.

 

At some point, a rough dollar figure for concessions purposes, is determined.

 

The fine print comes in with what those concessions will be. That is actually the easiest part of the process.

 

Is it enough?

 

We think so based upon all of our research and experience and due diligence.

 

Can I guarantee you that?

 

No, I can't.

 

I can say, without any doubt, that the UAW HAS NEVER made an employer go bankrupt. Nor, in my opinion, will it EVER DO SO.

 

Our job is to fight for your job.

 

 

I think you missunderstood me. When I stated "you need to have the answers", I was refering to all the question marks you presented in your posts. I believe we are both intelligent enough to know that there is no crystal ball for what is happening in the world economy. That being said---aren't you the person that gets the calls from the local level on questions that can't be answered at their level? That's my point, you really don't need to explain the negotiatng process for my benefit. Thanks anyway. I know that your job is to fight for the UAW membership. I guess my original question should have asked, "How can you fight for anyones job if you do have so many questions?", maybe you were posting hypothetically, I don't know. I'm not trying to beat you up. Who said anything about the UAW bankrupting any one? No company, no jobs, no need for representation. You are pretty confusing. I'm out of this one, unless I get dragged back in.

[Hi Ho Silver]

I think you missunderstood me. When I stated "you need to have the answers", I was refering to all the question marks you presented in your posts. I believe we are both intelligent enough to know that there is no crystal ball for what is happening in the world economy. That being said---aren't you the person that gets the calls from the local level on questions that can't be answered at their level? That's my point, you really don't need to explain the negotiatng process for my benefit. Thanks anyway. I know that your job is to fight for the UAW membership. I guess my original question should have asked, "How can you fight for anyones job if you do have so many questions?", maybe you were posting hypothetically, I don't know. I'm not trying to beat you up. Who said anything about the UAW bankrupting any one? No company, no jobs, no need for representation. You are pretty confusing. I'm out of this one, unless I get dragged back in.

 

 

Me too Pulse. He should be Sam Bonkers.