THE 'BUY OUTS'

[DYNEX!]

BAD BREAKFAST LOL

Just tired of the members that want to leave bitching that the UAW should let them go. It is the COMPANY"S call not the UAW...............Sorry but thats the truth........

 

Well to start with i'm thankful for the buyout packages. Also you make a pretty broad assumption as to why some are upset with the scheduled seperation dates.

First off,i took the EDOPP and it states in this package that you can attend the college of your choice.

If ford releases you in the middle of a semister there's a problem. The EDOPP year starts when your seperation date is. That means you would need to set out a semister,but here's the problem. You have 30 days to be in classes as a full time student or the package is cancelled. So if your released during the semister you will most likely have to wait more than 30 days for the next semister. Also you will lose the semister at the end because the date at the end will cut off the last semister before you attend.

There are also people that have jobs lined up,that have a limited time line to take these jobs. So there are good reasons for some peoples stress. The seperation packages were suppose to let people change there lives for the better. When not releasing people for another good paying or releasing people in the middle of college semisters is not a way to work with people trying to better themselves after Ford.

rc38, I really wish you the best of luck.....But the fact still is the UAW does not let people leave. Ford Motor Company will let people leave when the company wants them to. All of this about school, signing up and leaving before Jan. 1 is on the company. I really hope that you get to leave in order to be in school on time. I really understand your frustrations, but because the Company will not commit to letting you leave, how is this the UAW's fault? I know that your not blaming the UAW but most members on the floor are. You should fo see Faith and ask her why they told you one thing and now she is doing something else. I still wish you the best Bro.

 

You are ONE MISINFORMED/ DUMB MOTHER FUCKER, you know that? DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.........

You are not just a DUMB MOTHER FUCKER, you are one DUMBEST MOTHER FUCKER!!!!!! you just don't have a slightest clue, do you? WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU KNOW ABOUT what Ford does and what UAW does? go back to your GED classes and pray like hell someday they will give you your diploma. You are one hopeless MOTHERFUCKER!!!!!!you will NEVER find another job beyond Ford, and you know why? becaused, YOU ARE ONE DUMBEST MOTHER FUCKER!!!!!!

Could you please speak in Engish. I am not that diverse in M-Fing. What does Fing mean? I could not find it in the dictionary. I did find asshole it states...asshole: 1) something you shit comes out of. 2) TCAPer

 

get an education!

He will with is buy-out package.

[DYNEX!]

How unfortunate that you're calling those that chose, repeat chose, to accept Ford's buyout offer quitters. Every Ford employee that was offered a severence package had the ability to review the offer made to them and decide for themselves what action was in their own best interest. To those of us that may work for Ford, its' dealers or loyal Ford vehicle owners, their years of service are greatly appreciated. Unfortunately, both the times and market situations have changed and changes must be made in order for the Company and its' Dealers to not just survive but thrive in the years ahead.

 

I'll give credit to Alan Mulally and my benefit of doubt for taking the necessary steps to make the Company more efficient now, when waiting and studying the issue longer would only cost all a lot more money and do more damage in the long run.

 

Looking back, you must realize that the UAW members have enjoyed substantial salary and benefits that the Company too easily agreed to for many, many years and for which its' now paying dearly for in terms of retirement benefits that have contributed greatly to the cost differential of domestic versus import vehicles manufacturers. It's not just Ford's fault but all of the "Big 3" that so easily gave in to the UAW demands over the past 30+ years. And now Ford and the rest are paying dearly as the imports continue to increase market share.

 

The Company has taken the proactive step of offering buyout/early severence packages to encourage UAW and other employees to leave the Company. As such, the Company will initially take on enormous expenses now in order to reduce its' operating expenses in the future. Would it have been better to forgo offering the severence packages and instead just start closing plants? Oh no, they can't do that because of the UAW contracts that require a certain closing notice, salary guarantees, etc.

 

I want to finish this on a positive note of expressing my appreciation again, for all those UAW workers that have accepted buyout offers, for their contribution over the years. It's not your fault that Ford, GM & Chrysler so easily accepted the UAW demands for so many years instead of the risk of long term strike induced plant shut downs, etc. I'm not blaming the UAW leadership for doing their job in negotiating contracts either but instead blaming the previous management at all involved now... GM, Ford & Chrysler for creating the problem that they all now face.

 

Reducing the employee roster within Ford and the UAW staffed positions is a major but necessary first step in turning the current situation around. Ford's lost 40% of its market share in the past ten years. Now it needs to reduce its' dealer body by a similar amount to ensure that only the most appropriate dealers survive. That means getting rid of the dealers that don't meet up to the highest standards of customer satisfaction and getting rid of the weakest dealers in markets that have too many dealers.

First off, Let me say this. I have been at Ford for almost 20 years. I could care less if Ford got rid of your dealership or not. If they get rid of it, its is because you are one of the weakest dealers. I only care about the UAW members. The dealerships are part of the problem. Most of the customer service sucks. You also charge way to much for services. How much is that oil change anyway? Quick lube: $19.99.....The UAW members build cars and trucks, dealerships sell them. You should get with your people and figure out how you can do that. It is call marketing.....Give the people great quality service and they will come back. That is called customer satisfaction. Give them shit and they will leave. The UAW members work hard for their money. You sit behind your desk, like you are now, and DISRESPECT these members that give you the vehicals for your survival. I would prefer you just said thank you UAW for all that you have given my family over the years instead of DISRESPECTING us. Please let me know where your dealership is and I will be sure to visit you someday with my UAW logo's on and tell all your customers just how much you just bashed the UAW. Please put your dealership address on your next post and I will be sure to send it to all the Local UAW halls in your area. Then when your pocket book starts to hurt, you can come back here and beg for forgiveness. I will be one to tell you to KISS MY EVER LOVING UAW ASS Have a nice life. One pissed off UAW member

[davdog]

First off, Let me say this. I have been at Ford for almost 20 years. I could care less if Ford got rid of your dealership or not. If they get rid of it, its is because you are one of the weakest dealers. I only care about the UAW members. The dealerships are part of the problem. Most of the customer service sucks. You also charge way to much for services. How much is that oil change anyway? Quick lube: $19.99.....The UAW members build cars and trucks, dealerships sell them. You should get with your people and figure out how you can do that. It is call marketing.....Give the people great quality service and they will come back. That is called customer satisfaction. Give them shit and they will leave. The UAW members work hard for their money. You sit behind your desk, like you are now, and DISRESPECT these members that give you the vehicals for your survival. I would prefer you just said thank you UAW for all that you have given my family over the years instead of DISRESPECTING us. Please let me know where your dealership is and I will be sure to visit you someday with my UAW logo's on and tell all your customers just how much you just bashed the UAW. Please put your dealership address on your next post and I will be sure to send it to all the Local UAW halls in your area. Then when your pocket book starts to hurt, you can come back here and beg for forgiveness. I will be one to tell you to KISS MY EVER LOVING UAW ASS Have a nice life. One pissed off UAW member

 

Hey dickwad, I think the guy you responded to hit the nail right on the middle of the head. Who the fuck are you to think you provide diddly shit to him. YOU FUCKING ASSEMBLE CARS, you don't design them, you don't design the plants they are built in, you don't do shit besides attach part a to part b.

 

I guess that dealer that charges $30 for an oil change figures if you can get twice what you're worth so can an oil change. Here's a quarter, call me when you get a job that pays half what you made at ford.

[DYNEX!]

Hey dickwad, I think the guy you responded to hit the nail right on the middle of the head. Who the fuck are you to think you provide diddly shit to him. YOU FUCKING ASSEMBLE CARS, you don't design them, you don't design the plants they are built in, you don't do shit besides attach part a to part b.

 

I guess that dealer that charges $30 for an oil change figures if you can get twice what you're worth so can an oil change. Here's a quarter, call me when you get a job that pays half what you made at ford.

Nice post from a non union piece of shit davdag. I will continue to make cars and collect my money and get my oil changed at Quick Lube for $19.99. I will only take my vehical to a dealership if it is a warranty item. By the way attaching part a to part b allows me to make $27.00 per hour. You continue to work in your non union facility at $10.00 per hour and bitch at me. I just laugh at posts like yours. Man MAN I LOVE THE UAW see ya

Edited December 13, 2006 by DYNEX!

[davdog]

Nice post from a non union piece of shit davdag. I will continue to make cars and collect my money and get my oil changed at Quick Lube for $19.99. I will only take my vehical to a dealership if it is a warranty item. By the way attaching part a to part b allows me to make $27.00 per hour. You continue to work in your non union facility at $10.00 per hour and bitch at me. I just laugh at posts like yours. Man MAN I LOVE THE UAW see ya

 

 

$27 an hour equals 56k a year. I make just about double your base pay. You take away the 3k you pay in union dues and you're down to 53k a year. You can add in whatever OT you want to but you'd be hard pressed to say you make another 50k in OT.

 

I make market wages, you don't. Take a buyout and I'll bet 80 percent of you wont' get 75 percent of what you're getting now, and that 75 percent is being generous.

 

Ford will not survive if it is forced to sell its products at market prices yet is forced to pay non-market wages.

 

Face it Ford doesn't want the UAW any more. They don't want the damn UAW and all it represents today. If they could come up with a way to get rid of it they would, hell they’re willing to give each of you 100k to just walk out the door. If that doesn’t sound like they don’t want the uaw then what does.

 

Welcome to reality pal.

Edited December 14, 2006 by davdog

[thegunslinger]

$27 an hour equals 56k a year. I make just about double your base pay. You take away the 3k you pay in union dues and you're down to 53k a year. You can add in whatever OT you want to but you'd be hard pressed to say you make another 50k in OT.

 

I make market wages, you don't. Take a buyout and I'll bet 80 percent of you wont' get 75 percent of what you're getting now, and that 75 percent is being generous.

 

Ford will not survive if it is forced to sell its products at market prices yet is forced to pay non-market wages.

 

Face it Ford doesn't want the UAW any more. They don't want you. If they could come up with a way to get rid of you they would, and you can blame it all on the UAW. They are willing to give you 100k to just walk out the door, that goes beyond not wanting you anymore. As I welcome my brother into my world I want to welcome you into it too. You think the worst that's going to happen in 07 is a two tier wage system and no GEN, get real.

Please read "davdog super troll" thread. Ford may not want us. We want you even less. Go somewhere else and bother other people with your views about things in which you have zero knowledge.

[davdog]

Please read "davdog super troll" thread. Ford may not want us. We want you even less. Go somewhere else and bother other people with your views about things in which you have zero knowledge.

 

 

Tell me where I'm wrong pal. I've got more then enough close relatives who are either going to be effected by the situation with ford or already have. 90 percent of those relatives, just like 90 percent of you, would have gone on to college after high school if it weren't for the inflated non-market wages available at the Ford plants. Now that the years have passed by and they are losing, or have lost there jobs, they have to start over. It is not that easy to start over. Go get a degreee, great. You know what the starting pay for most new employees with a new degree is? It ain't 56k, I'll tell you that.

 

What I'm saying is the shit jobs at the plant shouldn't have paid as much as they did and most of you would have moved on. But no the UAW had to get the pay jacked up to where nobody could afford to , or wanted to move on, despite the fact that the jobs are tough back breaking jobs for the most part.

 

I'm not against any of you. I'm against the unions in this country that now turn jobs that shouldn't be careers into careers because they get the pay jacked up beyond reason. You've been in the car industry for X number of years. Where can you take that skill set and pick up the same coin I'm not saying you don't have skills, I'm saying where else can you take them besides another auto plant.

[Wittsend]

Please don't feed the Troll.

Edited December 14, 2006 by Wittsend

[slowilly]

Please don't feed the Troll.

everything seemed fine when we were passing out $5000 profit sharing checks, i didn't hear that our wages were to high then...now it seems to be our high wages? I don't by that....it's health care and the pensions, something Honda and Toyota are not dealing with right now that are the main culprets...just my uneducated opinon of course, i'm just a over paid PROUD uaw worker...

[captamrica]

Now that the buy out packages window is closed, members want to know when they can leave. Well your going to leave when the company (ford not the UAW) says so. You people that want to leave and can not leave just yet think this is the UAW's fualt? Think again...If you can not wait until Ford Motor Co. not the UAW, tells you to leave then just quit now. Walk out have a nice life. The company will release you when they get good and f***ing ready and there is nothing you, the President of the US, me, your wife, the UAW Int, Local UAW CAN DO ABOUT IT. SO JUST DO YOUR JOB AND WHEN THE TIME COMES TO LEAVE FORD WILL TELL YOU TO LEAVE........Have a nice life quitters because when your are gone we will be having a :party2: : :beerchug:

 

 

I'm assuming you have a plant to have a party at, many on this board who are "quitters" no longer have a plant to continue to work.

 

Of course many of us were offered transfers; to pull their family's up (kid's out of school, spouses quit their jobs or maybe leave their children behind because of divorce) and move , in some cases, half way across the country in hopes of keeping their job, but this is no garauntee, with more plants to be announced.

 

Just ask those who transfered from SLAP to TCAP, AAP, NAP, and other ACH plants that are now closing. They are now trying to transfer again or maybe they decided to "quit" because they no longer trust FoMoCo and have realized that they can make it without them.

 

Please do us a favor and not group us all into your "quitters" catagory. I would have been happy to stay with FoMoCo had I a plant to continue my career, here with my family, where I call home.

 

I bare you no ill will so enjoy your party and remember that you can because of those who chose to "quit".

 

Have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

[captamrica]

Tell me where I'm wrong pal. I've got more then enough close relatives who are either going to be effected by the situation with ford or already have. 90 percent of those relatives, just like 90 percent of you, would have gone on to college after high school if it weren't for the inflated non-market wages available at the Ford plants. Now that the years have passed by and they are losing, or have lost there jobs, they have to start over. It is not that easy to start over. Go get a degreee, great. You know what the starting pay for most new employees with a new degree is? It ain't 56k, I'll tell you that.

 

What I'm saying is the shit jobs at the plant shouldn't have paid as much as they did and most of you would have moved on. But no the UAW had to get the pay jacked up to where nobody could afford to , or wanted to move on, despite the fact that the jobs are tough back breaking jobs for the most part.

 

I'm not against any of you. I'm against the unions in this country that now turn jobs that shouldn't be careers into careers because they get the pay jacked up beyond reason. You've been in the car industry for X number of years. Where can you take that skill set and pick up the same coin I'm not saying you don't have skills, I'm saying where else can you take them besides another auto plant.

 

That is why I went to school while I was being "overpaid" and I now have 3 job offers that are solid starting between $19.00 and $22.00 topping out between $25.00 to $29.00 and one not so solid starting at $25.00 topping out at $34.00 after 5 years. Of course those solid ones are starting out in the 75% range as you stated, but still topping out close or above what I am making at FoMoCo. It is the benefit package that I am looking more closely than pay, this seems to be the biggest issue out there as I hunt for jobs.

 

I do not know if is watching your family members suffer through this or if it just plain jealousy that a person with a limited education can make a life for themselves and their family.

 

Not everyone can afford a college education, that is the one overriding issue I have seen with my co-workers. Making sure their children get a college education so they do not have to do what we have had to, and these jobs gave us (and our children) that oppourtunity. Once gone you will see even your wages and benefits decrease. Of course this will probably not happen in your, or my, lifetime, but if we continue on this course it will most certainly happen.

 

True there are certainly problems with our unions (we have debated this before) but I certainly would hate to see what this country would be like without them, especially now, a necessary evil if you will, much like our choices in political canidates, a lesser of two evils is the best you can do.

 

As always I wish you no ill will and pray that you and yours make it through all this and you never find yourself in this situation.

 

Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

Edited December 15, 2006 by Captamrica

[gbg49229]

$27 an hour equals 56k a year. I make just about double your base pay. You take away the 3k you pay in union dues and you're down to 53k a year. You can add in whatever OT you want to but you'd be hard pressed to say you make another 50k in OT.

 

I make market wages, you don't. Take a buyout and I'll bet 80 percent of you wont' get 75 percent of what you're getting now, and that 75 percent is being generous.

 

Ford will not survive if it is forced to sell its products at market prices yet is forced to pay non-market wages.

 

Face it Ford doesn't want the UAW any more. They don't want the damn UAW and all it represents today. If they could come up with a way to get rid of it they would, hell they’re willing to give each of you 100k to just walk out the door. If that doesn’t sound like they don’t want the uaw then what does.

 

Welcome to reality pal.

thats great you make that much money.....I dont know you, but if you are like most of the other people that talk shit you are still paying on student loans from getting youre base-paying job. and then you see what a uaw member earns with no education with no debt you get pissed, because when they work the same hours you do (12 hours a day) they make the same as you!!!!! so if you take my uaw wage with ot and its 100000 - 350 union dues =99650 if you make 100000 and still pay on youre student loans and credit cards you racked up in school while we made 100000 then it is no wonder you get pissed about what the uaw members make! if you dont have student loans then mommy and daddy paid the way.....which means they didnt have a job that requried them to carry a lunch pail, and you had a silver spoon in youre mouth but if you set that all to the side you wouldnt have what you have if it wasnt for the UAW!!!!!!!!!!!!! if you dont belive me why dont you call a non-union shop and see what youre base pay is there...good luck!

[davdog]

thats great you make that much money.....I dont know you, but if you are like most of the other people that talk shit you are still paying on student loans from getting youre base-paying job. and then you see what a uaw member earns with no education with no debt you get pissed, because when they work the same hours you do (12 hours a day) they make the same as you!!!!! so if you take my uaw wage with ot and its 100000 - 350 union dues =99650 if you make 100000 and still pay on youre student loans and credit cards you racked up in school while we made 100000 then it is no wonder you get pissed about what the uaw members make! if you dont have student loans then mommy and daddy paid the way.....which means they didnt have a job that requried them to carry a lunch pail, and you had a silver spoon in youre mouth but if you set that all to the side you wouldnt have what you have if it wasnt for the UAW!!!!!!!!!!!!! if you dont belive me why dont you call a non-union shop and see what youre base pay is there...good luck!

 

First, I'm not jealous of anyone's pay, OK maybe pro athletes. Second, I did 4 years in the USAF after high school and used a program called VEAP to pay for my education at a cheap in-state school. No loans, no debt. I could care how much you, or my brother, make. My problem was that 20 years ago anyone could see that the jobs and pay weren't going to last. Competition was coming at Ford and the other 2 and you knew those days of fat margins were going away. If the UAW had been smart and kept pay at a more reasonable rate then A.)a lot of you wouldn't have become employed in the auto industry and wouldn't be in the situation you are in today B.)a lot more of you, like my brother, would have gone to college instead of moving into a factory job. C.) You would still be a contract or 2 away from what is going to occur in 07

 

Captain, I think quite highly of the content of your posts, but I still stand by my 75 percent statement.

I know everyone had the option I had in joining the military, you just saw the nice pay coming out of the auto plants and decided to take that route.

 

For the last 40 years in the US we have seen the same thing occur in every manufacturing process I can think of. First it moves down south, or to cheaper labor, and then it moves out of the country. Textile, garment, steel, etc... How many f-ing warnings did the UAW need? They were not looking out for your best interests or they would have seen the writing on the wall. It was simply power and the fattening of their wallets.

[gbg49229]

First, I'm not jealous of anyone's pay, OK maybe pro athletes. Second, I did 4 years in the USAF after high school and used a program called VEAP to pay for my education at a cheap in-state school. No loans, no debt. I could care how much you, or my brother, make. My problem was that 20 years ago anyone could see that the jobs and pay weren't going to last. Competition was coming at Ford and the other 2 and you knew those days of fat margins were going away. If the UAW had been smart and kept pay at a more reasonable rate then A.)a lot of you wouldn't have become employed in the auto industry and wouldn't be in the situation you are in today B.)a lot more of you, like my brother, would have gone to college instead of moving into a factory job. C.) You would still be a contract or 2 away from what is going to occur in 07

 

Captain, I think quite highly of the content of your posts, but I still stand by my 75 percent statement.

I know everyone had the option I had in joining the military, you just saw the nice pay coming out of the auto plants and decided to take that route.

 

For the last 40 years in the US we have seen the same thing occur in every manufacturing process I can think of. First it moves down south, or to cheaper labor, and then it moves out of the country. Textile, garment, steel, etc... How many f-ing warnings did the UAW need? They were not looking out for your best interests or they would have seen the writing on the wall. It was simply power and the fattening of their wallets.

I was looking for the article to post but did you know the ceo of toyota top pay is 750,000 with out stock options, we spend more then that on plane rides!

[davdog]

I was looking for the article to post but did you know the ceo of toyota top pay is 750,000 with out stock options, we spend more then that on plane rides!

 

 

I don't doubt what you're saying, but I don't have any friends or relatives who are/were ceo material.

 

Ford is fat from top to bottom. The white collar workers are getting whacked too.

 

Ford is just coming out of a mindset of fat margins and limited competition. They'll need to completely reinvent themselves just to survive.

 

I'm a blue collar kid from a blue collar family who believes the UAW has been selling you out for the last 20+ years.

 

Who the hell here didnt' know what happens in the manufacturing process of every product made. It used to be that computers were made in the US too.

 

Manufacturing processes for evey product strive to automate and dumb down the process of building the product. That has always been the way of manufacturing.

[gbg49229]

I don't doubt what you're saying, but I don't have any friends or relatives who are/were ceo material.

 

Ford is fat from top to bottom. The white collar workers are getting whacked too.

 

Ford is just coming out of a mindset of fat margins and limited competition. They'll need to completely reinvent themselves just to survive.

 

I'm a blue collar kid from a blue collar family who believes the UAW has been selling you out for the last 20+ years.

 

Who the hell here didnt' know what happens in the manufacturing process of every product made. It used to be that computers were made in the US too.

 

Manufacturing processes for evey product strive to automate and dumb down the process of building the product. That has always been the way of manufacturing.

you make some very good points, its very unfortunate that things are going the way they are, this all started years ago with the steel ind then the air-lines where next and we are last......it just sucks that all the working people ( not the owners and ceos) are taking the hit including people like you and me, it was my understanding that toyota workers make very close to what we make and thats why they dont want the union. but I have been wrong before

[captamrica]

First, I'm not jealous of anyone's pay, OK maybe pro athletes. Second, I did 4 years in the USAF after high school and used a program called VEAP to pay for my education at a cheap in-state school. No loans, no debt. I could care how much you, or my brother, make. My problem was that 20 years ago anyone could see that the jobs and pay weren't going to last. Competition was coming at Ford and the other 2 and you knew those days of fat margins were going away. If the UAW had been smart and kept pay at a more reasonable rate then A.)a lot of you wouldn't have become employed in the auto industry and wouldn't be in the situation you are in today B.)a lot more of you, like my brother, would have gone to college instead of moving into a factory job. C.) You would still be a contract or 2 away from what is going to occur in 07

 

Captain, I think quite highly of the content of your posts, but I still stand by my 75 percent statement.

I know everyone had the option I had in joining the military, you just saw the nice pay coming out of the auto plants and decided to take that route.

 

For the last 40 years in the US we have seen the same thing occur in every manufacturing process I can think of. First it moves down south, or to cheaper labor, and then it moves out of the country. Textile, garment, steel, etc... How many f-ing warnings did the UAW need? They were not looking out for your best interests or they would have seen the writing on the wall. It was simply power and the fattening of their wallets.

 

I did the same thing 4 years US Army for me, although I did not pick an MOS much potential on the outside. My original idea was to make a career out of it so I picked a combat MOS (Infantry) to start my career knowing that it would look better for promotions later, my recruiter agreed despite my ASVAB scores gave me options for any MOS. He strongly recommended a technical skill but if I was chooseing a career that it would be best to have this in my file and to do it while I was young. He was right I know I could not do it at my age now, although I would not have the scars I have now either and my right leg would probably work a little better not having been almost removed at the knee.

 

At any rate VEAP paid for my first technical degree and I entered that market at $7.50 an hour (field service tech) PC's were just catching on 486 processers were cutting edge. (wow)

 

The auto industry called and I saw a chance at CIM and robotics work as an electrician, something that deeply interested me. I did not even know FoMoCo was here in STL. Unfortunately I ran into the "who you know' network and it took me 12 years to get on the list for that work and I waited another 4 to actually be the next in line to enter the program. Then it all fell apart with the announcement of closing our plant. The program was frozen.

 

Despite the recommendations of those running the program I started school through ETAP rather then the program paying for it, a decision I am glad I made. It took a little longer but I will finish my second technical degree next spring. This is the reason I have the job offers I have otherwise I would not have squat, and $62,500 after taxes is not going to last long.

 

None the less it was an experience that gave both knowlegde and money to complete an education in the field that I have always had a passion for and comes naturally to me. I do wish I could have gotten some actual documentable experience though, this would help even more.

 

Good luck to all.

[tcap for now]

our pay and benefits arent the root of the problem. i feel we earn every dime of them too. just ask someone retiring after 30 years how thier body feels. the only reason they can fill our jobs ith people for lower pay is they are desperate for a job. if times were good and sales where soaring, nobody would care what we make. if the people at the top werent making millons a year maybe i would feel different. but how can the people who failed in their jobs make that much and still have a job? how can they make that much at all? the big 3 were caught with their pants down. they relied on the government to keep the market biased towards them. they also changed their buisiness from selling vehicles to selling stocks. they also raked in profit by not investing in new models. they sat back and enjoyed the profits by not investing in their own comanies. now we have to downsize.

 

and i had no chances to get a better education untill i started at ford. i consider myself lucky to have gotten a job in a ford plant. its hard work with good pay. it gave me the ability to support my family. and with the uaw i didnt have to worry about being treated unfairly. and job security. while yes im losing my job, i have options with the buyout package.

 

this country needs good paying jobs. there are good jobs outside plants that will be gone when the plants are gone. partsuppliers, car haulers, truck drivers, and railroad workers will lose buisiness. smaller things like the local bar, restraunt, gas stations, fast food, liquor store, and convenience store will also take a hit. on top of that the less we make the less we spend, the less we spend the more it hurts the economy. if everything is made out of this counrty for cheaper labor, and there are no jobs left, products will be cheaper but we wont be able to afford them.

 

if everyone 25 and older in the country had a 4 or more year degree how many job openings would there be in any given field? nowhere near enough. that would drive pay and benefits to the rock bottom, and killing the job market.

[davdog]

our pay and benefits arent the root of the problem. i feel we earn every dime of them too. just ask someone retiring after 30 years how thier body feels. the only reason they can fill our jobs ith people for lower pay is they are desperate for a job. if times were good and sales where soaring, nobody would care what we make. if the people at the top werent making millons a year maybe i would feel different. but how can the people who failed in their jobs make that much and still have a job? how can they make that much at all? the big 3 were caught with their pants down. they relied on the government to keep the market biased towards them. they also changed their buisiness from selling vehicles to selling stocks. they also raked in profit by not investing in new models. they sat back and enjoyed the profits by not investing in their own comanies. now we have to downsize.

 

and i had no chances to get a better education untill i started at ford. i consider myself lucky to have gotten a job in a ford plant. its hard work with good pay. it gave me the ability to support my family. and with the uaw i didnt have to worry about being treated unfairly. and job security. while yes im losing my job, i have options with the buyout package.

 

this country needs good paying jobs. there are good jobs outside plants that will be gone when the plants are gone. partsuppliers, car haulers, truck drivers, and railroad workers will lose buisiness. smaller things like the local bar, restraunt, gas stations, fast food, liquor store, and convenience store will also take a hit. on top of that the less we make the less we spend, the less we spend the more it hurts the economy. if everything is made out of this counrty for cheaper labor, and there are no jobs left, products will be cheaper but we wont be able to afford them.

 

if everyone 25 and older in the country had a 4 or more year degree how many job openings would there be in any given field? nowhere near enough. that would drive pay and benefits to the rock bottom, and killing the job market.

 

 

I don't disagree with your statements about upper management at Ford, as a matter of fact you're spot on. Like I said they are fat from top to bottom. I'll bet you the white collar workers who are getting shown the door will be in worse shape then the blue collar guys.

 

I never buy the I couldn't go to college argument, like I said I had to serve 4 years in the USAF to come up with the coin and that option was there for everyone else.

 

This country needs more educated people. It used to be that the south was the blue collar area for the US, now it's central america. If more people got an education maybe there'd be less dorks like Mark running companies into the ground.

[DYNEX!]

$27 an hour equals 56k a year. I make just about double your base pay. You take away the 3k you pay in union dues and you're down to 53k a year. You can add in whatever OT you want to but you'd be hard pressed to say you make another 50k in OT.

 

I make market wages, you don't. Take a buyout and I'll bet 80 percent of you wont' get 75 percent of what you're getting now, and that 75 percent is being generous.

 

Ford will not survive if it is forced to sell its products at market prices yet is forced to pay non-market wages.

 

Face it Ford doesn't want the UAW any more. They don't want the damn UAW and all it represents today. If they could come up with a way to get rid of it they would, hell they’re willing to give each of you 100k to just walk out the door. If that doesn’t sound like they don’t want the uaw then what does.

 

Welcome to reality pal.

Hey Dickwad.......Let's do some math my highly un-educated friend. First off the plant I work in runs 10 hours a day plus 8 on Saturdays with some Sundays, which equals 58+ hours a week. Now for the math question: 58+ time and a half plus somedouble time= at least $100,000.00 per year and about another $25,000.00 in benifits does it not?. So you see when all the adding is done you DO NOT MAKE DOUBLE MY PAY I have worked on the average of about 58+ hours a week for the last few years. I really don't care if you make market wages and I don't. I really don't even care what you make. My personal opinion is that you don't have this job you talk about, but are a jealous little bastard that could not even pass the test to get a job at FoMoCo.

 

"Second, I did 4 years in the USAF after high school and used a program called VEAP to pay for my education at a cheap in-state school. No loans, no debt." quote of 'davdog'

 

I am glad that you went into the military to get an education. Here is another question for you puppy>>>>

Was any of the money given to you by the Air Force to go to school UAW tax dollars?

 

What is the reason that you chose the USAF? The USMC to hard for you? Are you a wet vagina?

 

Have a nice Christmas.....Don't forget to thank a UAW member for you education.........

[thegunslinger]

Tell me where I'm wrong pal. I've got more then enough close relatives who are either going to be effected by the situation with ford or already have. 90 percent of those relatives, just like 90 percent of you, would have gone on to college after high school if it weren't for the inflated non-market wages available at the Ford plants. Now that the years have passed by and they are losing, or have lost there jobs, they have to start over. It is not that easy to start over. Go get a degreee, great. You know what the starting pay for most new employees with a new degree is? It ain't 56k, I'll tell you that.

 

What I'm saying is the shit jobs at the plant shouldn't have paid as much as they did and most of you would have moved on. But no the UAW had to get the pay jacked up to where nobody could afford to , or wanted to move on, despite the fact that the jobs are tough back breaking jobs for the most part.

 

I'm not against any of you. I'm against the unions in this country that now turn jobs that shouldn't be careers into careers because they get the pay jacked up beyond reason. You've been in the car industry for X number of years. Where can you take that skill set and pick up the same coin I'm not saying you don't have skills, I'm saying where else can you take them besides another auto plant.

You say "tell me where I am wrong pal", and I will at this time. You have zero knowledge on what an autoworker is worth because you have never been employed in a plant, on a line, doing what we do. We are paid negotiated wages to be sure. What we do, to a person on the outside looking in, would in fact seem to be as the proverbial "to good to be true job". I have had members of my own family who have said that I fell into a gold mine where all I have to do is put in a screw or two, tighten up one or two bolts, and read the comics before the next job comes to me. I know this rational to be totally unfounded. People do not realize that the mental aspect of being chained to a job, is sometimes vastly more taxing upon ones being than the physical aspect. This is aside from the fact that at any given moment, from any angle, and maybe through no fault of your own, that you could get hurt. Personally, I have had a concussion, numerous stitches, and a bakers dozen worth of other maladies befall me, in addition to the normal aches and pains associated with doing the same thing 500 times a shift. I am not complaining, just stating the facts. I have worked with many who have endured far more trials and tribulations than I. I also know that these types of problems are present in other lines of employment. But, on an assembly line, the unrelenting grind of profuse monotony will compound any other problem you might have until said problem drives one to the brink of tears and chaotic feeling. Possibly even violence. I have seen this because I was there. I myself have had problems that all I could do was to think about it for ten hours in my own little world. Imagine hearing that your father has had a heart attack, but not being informed of this tidbit of information until a suitable replacement for your job could be found. I lived this. This was ten years ago. And I must say that my brothers and sisters that I worked with in G-zone chassis made me feel like they really cared, because they did. God bless you all! My father, praise God, is fine. But at the time I did not know that. These are the things that we endure for our "non market wages" as you say. I have no regrets about working for FoMoCo, NAP. I met and worked beside many dedicated, hard working, honest, friends. I shall never forget them. I must say that you are correct in your deduction that many of us will have a hard time finding the wage we are paid now offered to us initially. Myself included. We will survive this cataclysm. Until you have walked the walk, you cannot in good conscience, say that we have not earned what we have been paid. I know that there are exceptions to every rule. I am talking about the whole, not the pieces. You are thinking as many "top" executives talk and think: the bottom line. And I realize that a company has to be profitable to some degree to survive. Anyone who cares to look knows that FoMoCo's situation does not look warm and fuzzy at this point in time. This is not a problem that we blue collars created. We were hired to build a product. I don't care if was F-150's at NAP, Explorer's at SLAP, Ranger's at TCAP, or Taurus' at ATL, or anyplace else in the system. We always come through. We rise to the task given to us no matter what the odds. That is our JOB. We do what it takes. We shall find a way. We do this because we are a team. A team that takes their collective jobs very seriously. You can only experience this type of feeling by being on such a team! What you are saying about our wages may look fairminded to an unknowing individual, or an executive that is doing his/her utmost to cut costs and save a dollar. That does in no way make it right. I ask you: what dollar amount can you place upon TRUE dedication to one's job? What is that worth in todays ever changing marketplace? Sadly, it means little to the decision makers. This will cost more than dollars and cents when the smoke clears. I leave with a few final thoughts. I am not saying that your "lessons" in business economics are wrong with respect to finding a job NOW paying what I made at FoMoCo. Many will not. Many, however, will. I know this because I know people that have. I also will not sit here and harangue you will meanless profanity and namecalling. I do not want to fuel a "dumb, unemployed autoworker fire". We are not dumb, just frustrated and betrayed. Madder than HELL as well. Do not judge the people that do raise HELL, because they vent just like everyone else, myself included, and need a moment of total disregard of etiquette. In closing I will again say that we earn every penny we recieve, and then some at times. And until you work, live, suffer, and breath as we have, your opinions on our monetary worth have as much authority as Czar Nicholas Romanov II had in 1918 against the Bolshevik leader, Vladimir Ilyich Lenin. ZERO

[davdog]

Hey Dickwad.......Let's do some math my highly un-educated friend. First off the plant I work in runs 10 hours a day plus 8 on Saturdays with some Sundays, which equals 58+ hours a week. Now for the math question: 58+ time and a half plus somedouble time= at least $100,000.00 per year and about another $25,000.00 in benifits does it not?. So you see when all the adding is done you DO NOT MAKE DOUBLE MY PAY I have worked on the average of about 58+ hours a week for the last few years. I really don't care if you make market wages and I don't. I really don't even care what you make. My personal opinion is that you don't have this job you talk about, but are a jealous little bastard that could not even pass the test to get a job at FoMoCo.

 

"Second, I did 4 years in the USAF after high school and used a program called VEAP to pay for my education at a cheap in-state school. No loans, no debt." quote of 'davdog'

 

I am glad that you went into the military to get an education. Here is another question for you puppy>>>>

Was any of the money given to you by the Air Force to go to school UAW tax dollars?

 

What is the reason that you chose the USAF? The USMC to hard for you? Are you a wet vagina?

 

Have a nice Christmas.....Don't forget to thank a UAW member for you education.........

 

 

Whatever you say you make is more believable then what I say since you have co-workers here who would shoot you down if you were full of it. I'm not here to throw out numbers that I can't back up without showing you a pay stub, I told you what I make. Of course I didn't include benefits, who the heck does other then the media, I can't buy a 6 pack with my benefits. Since the USAF is a tax funded organization I suppose everybody working at the time funded my education, but since I've never driven any vehicle besides a ford I suppose I helped pay for the fuzzy mitten you took advantage of last night. What difference does the branch of the service I went into make? Is vagina your word of the week? Did you draw one on your fuzzy mitten to make it seem more real?

 

See it's dumb fucks like you that make the general public happy that the uaw is going down the toilet. I have a brother who is uaw so I know you are in the minority.

 

You say "tell me where I am wrong pal", and I will at this time. You have zero knowledge on what an autoworker is worth because you have never been employed in a plant, on a line, doing what we do. We are paid negotiated wages to be sure. What we do, to a person on the outside looking in, would in fact seem to be as the proverbial "to good to be true job". I have had members of my own family who have said that I fell into a gold mine where all I have to do is put in a screw or two, tighten up one or two bolts, and read the comics before the next job comes to me. I know this rational to be totally unfounded. People do not realize that the mental aspect of being chained to a job, is sometimes vastly more taxing upon ones being than the physical aspect. This is aside from the fact that at any given moment, from any angle, and maybe through no fault of your own, that you could get hurt. Personally, I have had a concussion, numerous stitches, and a bakers dozen worth of other maladies befall me, in addition to the normal aches and pains associated with doing the same thing 500 times a shift. I am not complaining, just stating the facts. I have worked with many who have endured far more trials and tribulations than I. I also know that these types of problems are present in other lines of employment. But, on an assembly line, the unrelenting grind of profuse monotony will compound any other problem you might have until said problem drives one to the brink of tears and chaotic feeling. Possibly even violence. I have seen this because I was there. I myself have had problems that all I could do was to think about it for ten hours in my own little world. Imagine hearing that your father has had a heart attack, but not being informed of this tidbit of information until a suitable replacement for your job could be found. I lived this. This was ten years ago. And I must say that my brothers and sisters that I worked with in G-zone chassis made me feel like they really cared, because they did. God bless you all! My father, praise God, is fine. But at the time I did not know that. These are the things that we endure for our "non market wages" as you say. I have no regrets about working for FoMoCo, NAP. I met and worked beside many dedicated, hard working, honest, friends. I shall never forget them. I must say that you are correct in your deduction that many of us will have a hard time finding the wage we are paid now offered to us initially. Myself included. We will survive this cataclysm. Until you have walked the walk, you cannot in good conscience, say that we have not earned what we have been paid. I know that there are exceptions to every rule. I am talking about the whole, not the pieces. You are thinking as many "top" executives talk and think: the bottom line. And I realize that a company has to be profitable to some degree to survive. Anyone who cares to look knows that FoMoCo's situation does not look warm and fuzzy at this point in time. This is not a problem that we blue collars created. We were hired to build a product. I don't care if was F-150's at NAP, Explorer's at SLAP, Ranger's at TCAP, or Taurus' at ATL, or anyplace else in the system. We always come through. We rise to the task given to us no matter what the odds. That is our JOB. We do what it takes. We shall find a way. We do this because we are a team. A team that takes their collective jobs very seriously. You can only experience this type of feeling by being on such a team! What you are saying about our wages may look fairminded to an unknowing individual, or an executive that is doing his/her utmost to cut costs and save a dollar. That does in no way make it right. I ask you: what dollar amount can you place upon TRUE dedication to one's job? What is that worth in todays ever changing marketplace? Sadly, it means little to the decision makers. This will cost more than dollars and cents when the smoke clears. I leave with a few final thoughts. I am not saying that your "lessons" in business economics are wrong with respect to finding a job NOW paying what I made at FoMoCo. Many will not. Many, however, will. I know this because I know people that have. I also will not sit here and harangue you will meanless profanity and namecalling. I do not want to fuel a "dumb, unemployed autoworker fire". We are not dumb, just frustrated and betrayed. Madder than HELL as well. Do not judge the people that do raise HELL, because they vent just like everyone else, myself included, and need a moment of total disregard of etiquette. In closing I will again say that we earn every penny we recieve, and then some at times. And until you work, live, suffer, and breath as we have, your opinions on our monetary worth have as much authority as Czar Nicholas Romanov II had in 1918 against the Bolshevik leader, Vladimir Ilyich Lenin. ZERO

 

I'm not going to flame you because you obviously put a lot of time and emotion into that post. You know what market wages are.

[F250]

I will continue to make cars and collect my money and get my oil changed at Quick Lube for $19.99. I will only take my vehical to a dealership if it is a warranty item. Man MAN I LOVE THE UAW see ya

 

You need to back off on your dealership assault.

If they don't sell it then you don't build it.

 

If you are such a proud union member why don't you have your service done at the dealership where they use union made parts.

 

You save $4 on an oil change by back stabbing the people that work at your local dealership. Of course when you have a problem and need a real technician to diagnose and repair it then you'll run to the dealer.

 

Sounds more like a Kia or Hyundai buyer.

Edited December 16, 2006 by F250

[tcap for now]

my reasons for going to the dealer and paying 10.00 more for an oil change and waiting an hour or so:

 

the lube tech at the dealer makes almost fair wages. (for now anyway)

7 quarts of synthetic blend for only pennies more.

all of my fluids checked. and topped off if needed.

tires checked, pressure adjusted if needed.

free car wash.

if they make a mistake (which they havent yet) they would be the ones fixing it anyway.

its also a good time to mention anything that could be wrong with a vehicle.

 

 

for me its not so much price as it is value. most of the time the cheapest price includes no frills. and that goes for just about anything. not just oil changes.

[Skitch Patterson]

The white collar workers are in a tough spot too (as a couple of you have mentioned).

 

The buyouts being offered to us arent nearly as nice- (unless you are nearly retirement eligable). In many cases, its 6 months (or less) of severence- taxed as a bonus. Its not enough to live on for longer than a couple of months- unless you have another job lined up.

 

 

and they wont let anyone leave prior to 2/28/07.

and therein lies the catch. In Michigans economy, every job has about a million people applying for it- so do you really think new employers are going to wait 2 and a half months for a candidate to start?

 

For those with low seniority, they cant take a new Job unless they get a package, but they cant take a package unless they have a new job.