silvrsvt
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Posts posted by silvrsvt
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1 hour ago, akirby said:
Oakville can easily be redirected to continue with ICE if that’s the direction they want to go. In addition to Nautilus and Edge you could move Corsair and possibly even Escape there freeing up Louisville for the new EVs. That makes BOC, Louisville and Cuatitlan to make EVs along with Lightning at the F150 plant if they continue it for Ford Pro.And I don’t see any new PHEVs, just hybrids for everything and Oakville has a battery supplier.
They could do that, but what about the impact of Tax breaks from the Canadian government, etc that was put into place to redo the plant?
A C2 HEV/PHEV Edge would be "new" for North America-new subcontractors etc to get parts from. Would take at least 24 months to get things spun up and another 6 months for product to be actually sold here if they did that.
Given how the market is going with EVs, I don't see a future for subline for MAP, the Lightning in its current state, wouldn't make a good pro vehicle for vast majority of uses that the current F-150 covers. Plus its been more or less explicitly spelled out in the UAW contract they would have first shot at jobs at BOC.
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3 minutes ago, Gurgeh said:
Well, this one apparently does and Ford's current plan seems to be to just let it sit idle for the next two years.
the issue is that Oakvillie is being retooled to make EVs, which from what i understand is going to make big changes to the way the plant is laid out vs the way it is currently being used.
The other thing is this-with the changes over the next few years-EVs are still coming, like it or not, so does it really make sense to offer a PHEV 2 row CUV that will only be on sale for less then 10 years to recoup the costs? its going to take at least another 24 months or longer to get say a reskinned CN Edge for sale in the NA market and a plant tooled up for it. Given we are almost half way through 2024, I doubt it would be on sale tlll 2027MY in late 2026 or early 2027.
Then how would it impact plans for other products that are in the pipeline? I could see maybe Louisville getting the C2 midsize products due to timing, but how would that impact the low cost EVs that are apparently coming to replace the Escape? Will they move someplace else? will they just slot under the Escape/Bronco Sport?
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5 hours ago, twintornados said:
Don't forget Venezuela....their crude needs more refining due to it's higher sulfur content.
I was under the impression that they have serious issues with their energy producing market because they don't have anyone to take care of it and its output is shrinking.
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40 minutes ago, AM222 said:
Ford relies heavily on models they can't market outdide North America as mainstream models. The F-Series is too big, the Mustang ends up being a premium model, the Bronco also ends up being a premium model limited to select left-hand drive markets. The Mach e is also premium (expensive outside the US) and is sold in very limited number of markets.
The Mach E is roughly the same price in the UK and the EU as it is in NA market. The new Explorer EV starting price is even more.
Ford is a NA centric manufacture.
BMW and Mercedes would get taken down a notch or two in the cache dept once people realized that the stripper models are used as Taxis in Germany and other countries.
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5 hours ago, jpd80 said:
Ford spent $700 million to build the Rouge Electric Vehicle Center, it’s now back to one shift
so Ford is barely using one third of the capacity…….Not sure what is supposed to happen
to this facility once T3 takes over in a few years but it’s clear that Ford is counting on a
huge change in future demand….
More then likely another plant will be consolidated here with its product down the road. I'm also guessing that EV versions of ICE products like the Bronco will move here next decade
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I've seen 2 crowns, but it was down in VA on 95. Don't recall seeing any of them locally.
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28 minutes ago, GearheadGrrrl said:
Blue Oval City doesn't have a 3000 employee payroll to make.
I'm going to assume Canadian workers are cheaper then UAW employees in the payroll dept too.
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2 hours ago, Rick73 said:
Fiat 500e might turn out to be a good example that being a smaller BEV is not enough unless price and performance are also appealing to buyers. I’m curious to see how the new Fiat does. It’s definitely much smaller and lighter than a Tesla 3, but starting price is only about $5k lower; MSRP around $34k. With only about 37 kWh of estimated useable battery capacity, city driving range is in order of +/- 150 miles, limiting the 500e to being mostly a City Car.
Some buyers may consider the Fiat 500e “cute” or visually more appealing than a Tesla 3, but giving up +/- 100 miles of range, plus quite a bit of acceleration and real-world highway cruising speed just to save $5k seems a lot to ask of buyers. I hope Tesla haven’t cancelled the Model 2 because US needs a compact BEV under $30k, and with a range of about 250 miles. I may be completely wrong, but just can’t see a BEV the size of Fiat 500e appealing to the masses, particularly at $34,000. I’m also curious to see what kind of vehicle Ford come up with for the small low-cost segment.
From what I understand it’s on sale in Europe already. The Fiat 500 is DOA in North America, since the gas version never sold either.
Smallest product in the US that would sell is something a little bigger then the Bolt-like Trax or Trailblazer which are short C or large B products.
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1 hour ago, GearheadGrrrl said:
OAC needs to stay open- There's a payroll there to make and closing the plant would rile Canadian buyers for decades. The new assembly plants under construction can be delayed- There will be contractual penalties but nothing near the cost of paying OAC's workers with no cars built and no revenue produced.
From what I recall Ford pays a portion of pay and the rest of it is made up by unemployment, but this is based on US workers.
Plus skilled trades will still be working at the plant also.
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2 hours ago, Rick73 said:
To your point, I think whether it’s good for Ford or not depends on why Tesla is cancelling Model 2 (assuming report is correct to start with). If Tesla is cancelling Model 2 because they suddenly realized they can’t build it for anything near $25k, or that what they can build for $25k is so undesirable few would buy it, or that profitability is so low that cannibalized Model 3 and Y sales would do more harm than good, then I’m not sure Ford can do much better.
Having a cheaper product wouldn't effect Ford nearly as much-they don't have much under the Escape product wise and they have ICE/HEV products to offset profits from other EV products.
Can see the Model 2 making a dent in 3 sales in other parts of the world where smaller cars are more popular.
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1 hour ago, Oac98 said:
Or the product that they still can’t get right it seems??
Getting it right and making money on it are two different things. Apparently the new benchmark is EVs have to be profitable after a year of production, going by Fords comments.
Given how the economy and market demand is, to launch a product early just for it flounder in the marketplace isn't the best course of action.
I get your in a shitty position, but blowing up about it in every single post isn't going to fix or change it.
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The annoying thing I've been experiencing in my area is people who have zero patience when a light turn greens. I'll be at a light with 2-3 cars in front of me, The light changes green and I hear someone honking from behind me when the people haven't even gotten their foot off their brakes to start going in front of me. I'm blaming the people who come from NYC for that, but we've always had immigration from that area, but its something that just started happening after COVID started.
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15 hours ago, akirby said:
You can’t make conclusions about plugging in or not plugging in based on fuel economy alone. You must know how many miles are driven each day and they aren’t measuring that.
We already argued that point...that information is being collected by the OBFCM
https://green-driving.jrc.ec.europa.eu/JRCmatics_Monitoring_Fuel_Consumption_from_OBD
Which collects the following:
QuoteWhat is OBFCM: According to recent EU regulations, the vehicle should have available specific fuel-consumption related quantities at the OBD port of the vehicle, such as total driven distance, total fuel consumed or (in case of Plug-in Hybrid vehicles) total energy recharged from the electrical grid.
What do we use the data for: Fuel consumption on the road might deviate significantly from the official values communicated to the users. We are collecting data to help us improve consumer information and to feed future regulations.
What do we monitor: Driving instantaneous parameters (every second):
Speed
Engine speed (rpm)
Engine load
Instantaneous fuel consumption
and lifetime parameters from OBFCM:Total driven distance (km)
Total fuel consumed (L)
Total energy recharged from the electrical grid (only Plug-in Hybrid vehicles)It doesn't matter if its being driven 250 or 50 miles because it is still showing a large difference between what it should be getting going by testing. If someone isn't plugging in their car or as much as they should, the total use of fuel will be higher.
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3 hours ago, rmc523 said:
I think they should've kept the Rivian Lincoln product to gauge reaction and to give them an EV product until their in-house stuff was ready.
I'm not sure that would have been a wise idea, given how Rivian has performed. Not sure a Lincoln version of the current products they offer would have really moved the needle for Lincoln.
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On 4/7/2024 at 9:25 AM, akirby said:
None of the reports’ conclusions used that data. They only looked at fuel economy and the report even admitted that the utility factor (amount of time a plug in is driven on battery) estimate in the WLTP is way off. But that can also be explained by people driving further each day than expected, not just by people not plugging in.
What are you talking about?
https://climate.ec.europa.eu/document/download/b644dafe-1385-4b56-98d9-21e7e9f3601b_en?filename=report.pdfQuoteThis first report is based on the real-world data collected by vehicle manufacturers throughout 2021 on their cars and vans equipped with OBFCM devices. Real-world data was received for 988 231 vehicles out of a total of 9 821 479 vehicles first registered in 2021 in the EU, Iceland or Norway (9).
It just seems like that peoples biases are coming through without actually reading what the report says and the information in it.
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4 hours ago, Roland said:
This begs the question, "Why are these people not plugging in?" The assumption is that these people would have shown greater gains if they would have bought a BEV. The truth is probably that most wouldn't have bought a BEV because they can't or don't want to plug in.
You can tell that we're dealing with a religious argument rather than an economic or scientific one because nothing less than full compliance with the dogma is acceptable. ICE must be eradicated, nothing less is acceptable regardless of the impacts on economics or quality of life.
Can't plug in at night because there are no chargers at your slum tenement? Get on the bus where you belong, prole. Can't tow your boat more than 100 miles in a day? Property is theft anyway. Up against the wall, Kulak.
Your the one introjecting your political view into this...all it is showing is that PHEVs aren't showing in the real world as big of an improvement as they should when it comes to reducing CO2 emissions from vehicles.
When then begs the reason, why spend extra on PHEV if your not going to use it? -
1 hour ago, Andrew L said:
I am thinking a huge light bar across the back like the Millennium Falcons engines lol My friend used to say the back of my MKZ reminded him of the Millennium Falcon
My brother in law and former sister in law used to own a Nissan Quest that was called Millennium Falcon
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5 minutes ago, Andrew L said:
That's faster than any gas Mustang ever made isn't it?
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a30173251/ford-mustang-shelby-gt500-acceleration-testing/
QuoteWe've just tested a 2020 Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 on a test track, and it shot to 60 mph in 3.6 seconds on its way to a 11.4-second quarter-mile at 132 mph.
Faster 0-60 and off .4 second and 18 MPH in 1/4 mile
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2 hours ago, Flying68 said:
What does a CVT have to do with hybrid applications in large vehicles (trucks)? The F-150 hybrid is most definitely not a CVT, and I wouldn't expect a CVT in any other large truck application. I would expect a similar setup to the F-150 hybrid with an EM inline between the ICE and the transmission.
They don't-I was taking issue with adding a hybrid to large truck would automatically make it so much more efficient when things like the F-150 powerboost show it really doesn't make a huge impact like it does in other products that are smaller/lighter and use a CVT.
Its the application of scale-larger vehicles are going to need a bigger motor and larger batteries, which in turn add more weight, which impacts performance and FE, amoung other things.
I also think if it made that big of an improvement. manufactures in the HD market would be rolling it out sooner then later.
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5 hours ago, jpd80 said:
almost compelling that their BEVs were probably so bad as to be hopelessly uncompetitive
and now they’re going to redesign these things for a third time? ..F*** my brown dog.
That is a bit of a leap there
The market in general has many different issue, with the biggest being pricing and interest rates along with the general feeling of uncertainty with the economy. With inflation cutting into peoples buying power, people are finally making more prudent purchasing decisions.
Plunging Pickup Truck Sales Threaten Detroit’s Profit EngineThen add in the uncertainty with consumers and EVs, the early adaptors won't have an issue, but people who are on the fence are going to be harder to convince, are you going to buy something that might have a 300-400 mile range in 20 minutes 2-3 years after you buy one? The EV market needs to mature more before people become comfortable in buying them. Hopefully the charging infrastructure still grows even as EV demand softens over the next few years to help mitigate that issue.
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5 hours ago, jpd80 said:
The ball ripping thing here is that OPEC is desperately trying to raise the price of crude to $100/barrel
and the US needs to fight this hammer and tong as it’s just the oil nations trying to bleed us all again
the US is more or less energy independent from the rest of the world at this point.
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A Little Throwback Trivia
in Ford Motor Company Discussion Forum
Posted
I was wondering why this popped up!