hemisbc

http://www.cnbc.com/id/24985043/site/14081...xt|&par=aol

nickf1011>>>>>>>""""""""If politics forces us out before then, we WILL fail. Not because the invasion was flawed or the occupation was flawed or our military is flawed, but because public opinion is flawed.""""""" AMEN, absolutely right; just be glad we do not have to win WW-2 again. I can recall the bombing of Pearl Harbor and how EVERYONE joined behind the president and military to do a much needed job. I sometimes try to think of the incident that started the downfall of morality in this great country and I think of things like the "Chicago Seven" at a Democrat Convention or the incident at Kent State. No doubt 9/11 was the worse day in the history of this country and many want to blame the U.S. for it.

One class winner collected $10,000 and look at the stands; I've seen more people at a family reunion. Only FMC, Roush or Force could stand this. Visit My Website

Come on coupe, you call someone a moron and you don't have the understanding that your post agrees with me; sure everyone knows about the Roush facility. How did he obtain it; Ford gave it to him for running Fords. Otherwise, he'd have been running Chevys and winning races and championships. You have to wonder about the "smarts" of Roush himself considering his past efforts, his "empire" and the available resources from Ford. It appears his past loyalty to Ford has been greater than his desire to win. But presently with cars and engines basically exactly alike; it really does boil down to the most talent wins the races. And don't start in about the sanctioning bodies having Ford's hands tied, that's the lamest, simple minded cop out, excuse ever presented. Nascar and Nhra have both bent over backwards to try and get the Ford fan.

Sizzler should learn to read and comprehend (understand) before calling people names.

More about Ken Veney and he also was into TRACTOR PULLING. http://www.nhra.com/50th/top50/k_veney46.html

The chart is for an unblown nitro engine and indicates the combustion pressures including the IMEP, indicated mean effective pressure. The IHP, indicated horsepower, can be calculated from the following formula which, by the way, I stumbled across 55 years ago and still remember it. IHP = P X L X A X N X C divided by 33,000. P=IMEP in PSI, L=length of stroke in feet, A= area of piston in sq. inches, N= number of powerstrokes per minute, C= number of cylinders. The actual BHP, brake horsepower, is less than the IHP due to the power required to rotate the engine. http://www.tfxengine.com/NitroEngineData.html

Except for the Longhorns and Aggies football teams, Roush could be considered the world's No. 1 underachiever; considering the last 15 or so years he's had access to tremendous Ford resources. Whenever Roush is mentioned the first thing I think of is cheating.

syrtran>>>>"""As for Force, I'd be willing to bet Ford actually let him have a bunch of dyno time, and maybe even an engineer or two with a CAD or FEA station. They do sponsor him, after all."""""" So, how much would you want to bet, but then perhaps Ford and Force were the first to try this. And my guess is the only factory engineers that ever knew anything about drag racing were the RAMCHARGERS. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Fuel#Performance The “Ramchargers” were a famed drag racing team that help developed the funny car class in the sixties and well into the seventies. The “Ramchargers” were a group of Chrysler engineers that raced on the side using the best of Chrysler engineering. The team ran a series of race cars including an altered ‘49 Chrysler to a plethora of stockers and super stockers. Within the group of the Ramchargers that included Dick Maxwell, Tom Hoover, Phil Goulet, Don Westerdale, Jim Thorton, and many others, began the early development of the funny car. The Ramchargers were one of the first teams to have the 2% Super Stockers. The 2% led to the next stage of the radical altered wheelbased funny cars. The Coronet in the photos is said to be one of the first FCs into the eights, if not the first ever! Jim Thorton drove the car to a great 8.925, 150.75 at Cecil County in 1965. The Coronet was feared by many and rightly so. The car was one of the first well-known funny cars and one of the stars of the first Super Stock Nationals at York, PA, in 1965. (Photo provided by Drag Racing Memories; info provided by James Ibusuki and www.draglist.com) http://www.google.com/search?q=The+Ramchar...art=10&sa=N __________________

"""""""""""""""""""Just when he was convincing himself that the hemi is the all mighty you come and give him a dose of reality! Shame on you Stray kat!"""""""""" Neither should you post argumentively about something you know nothing about; someone might believe you

I would think it very likely that FORD themselves were the root cause for NHRA to add the specs to the engine rules. Ford had all the embarrassment in TF racing that they wanted. To say that the 500 shares some of the Chrysler Hemi® lineage is a gross understatement. It is really no more than a scam. Once again, the power is made above the head gaskets, everything else is just along for the ride. EVERYTHING ELSE IS JUST ALONG FOR THE RIDE. "All in", "all in"?, in the Funny Car class I would guess that Ford puts more $$$$$ in that class than all the other manufacturers combined. You see NHRA MUST have the Ford fan to survive and Funny Car is the only class where a Ford fan can feel good about and the great majority of them believe Force's implications. And by the way, I would bet a few coins that Ford was behind NHRA giving the PRO-BIKE V-twins the great cubic inch and weight advantage. HD alone could not have had that kind of power to force NHRA. Oh, by the way, I suspect the draftsman did not do a good job on the sketch of the Ardun in that it looks like a pent roof, and I doubt the valves being as big as they appear. Final analysis: the design of the 1951 Chrysler Hemi® has always made more power than could be utilized in nitro FC and TF racing; so why would anyone fool around with anything else.

Again, you should not post argumentively about something you know nothing about; someone might believe you.

You should not post about something that you know nothing about.

Anyone that does not recognize this as a Chrysler HEMI® should not be discussing nitro racing and as Roy Davis, winner of the first ever NHRA AA Gas Dragster Nat'l Championship once said, "The horsepower is made above the head gaskets." The sketch of the ARDUN?? is not a HEMI combustion chamber. AND Ford had no more to do with the engineering of the ARDUN than they did the Cosworth. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zora_Arkus-Duntov

THE BOSS IS BACK, yeah right, another scam In Dec. 2005, the below writer, Roger Gorringe, interviewed John Force about such as his future plans in NHRA FUNNY CAR racing. Roger Gorringe: Your plans for 2006, I guess it's to recapture the title? John Force: We're in the development to build an all-Ford motor, NHRA-spec motor. We've been given the equipment by a company called Facial, Fadal Machinery Giddings and Lewis. it's a worldwide corporation that will take us into the market. We've got a big machine shop in LA. We build our own blowers, our own heads, clutches, but now we're gonna build the block. Because we want an all-Ford motor and yet we have to fit underneath the NHRA….this won't be a Chrysler design, everything evolved from the Chrysler. This will be a Ford spec motor by our brain trust, it's an exciting new time to grow because the financing's there, because who can afford to go out and buy ten million dollars worth of equipment to build machinery? I went after a sponsorship six years ago, I said I'll supply the money for the suppliers to buy the manpower, and they'll work with us with technology, and Fadal Giddings and Lewis will supply the equipment, that's two huge companies worldwide. And Ford's really into It. The above excerpt is taken from about 75% down in this link: http://www.eurodragster.com/news/john_force.asp You may or may not be aware that every FC race Force ever won, his car was powered by a CHRYSLER HEMI® motor. Although he did not do so while he was driving the GM bodied cars, when he switched to Ford bodies he began his implications that his car was /is powered by a Ford motor as in the below: Here's a direct quote from John: "For all the cutting-edge, next-generation vehicles there's no place else like the LA Auto Show," Force said. "There, we can show just how much muscle Ford packs into the 7,000-horsepower Castrol GTX Ford Mustang Funny Car engine. Since 1997, Ford has been an essential part of John Force Racing. I am pleased and honored that we can bring my hot rod to the LA Auto Show and highlight Ford Racing's success and also show off a creative King of the Hill paint scheme." But John, it is a CHRYSLER, not FORD, engine. OK, let us fast forward to late ’06 to early ‘07 and lookee, the much anticipated, new FORD nitro engine is alive, well almost. Here’s a link for the pictures: http://www.dragracingonline.com/agent1320/...20-ix_1-43.html Does anyone recall some 35-40 years ago when Ford made their last venture into nitro racing; what a disaster, if they didn’t explode on the starting line, odds are they would near the end of the quarter mile. In the several years of hired gun drivers, and they were about the best of that era, they won a total of 4 races before throwing in the towel. Here’s where the big BOSS news really starts, and from the real horse’s mouth. This is an excerpt from the biggest of the big wheels of Ford Racing. The Ford BOSS 500 Nitro Drag Racing Engine: Dan Davis, director of Ford Racing Technology and racing enthusiasts know that the true heart of a race car is its engine - and wants to make sure that the “heart” that powers NHRA Funny Car Mustangs of John Force Racing is pumping “blue” blood in the future. Davis and John Medlen of John Force Racing challenged themselves to develop the new Ford BOSS 500, the first modern nitro engine for drag racing. The BOSS 500 was tested on-track for the first time on Oct. 18 and was unveiled for media today. “We wanted to be in NHRA Funny Car with an engine that we really could call all our own,” Davis said. “I wanted people to see a Ford Mustang race car and know that it’s winning races with true Ford power.” Davis and Medlen looked at the current nitro engine, discussed where they felt it had weaknesses, and decided to design and build a new engine to address them. The BOSS 500 is the first nitro drag racing motor designed with analytical tools. It has a strengthened block for better durability and new cylinder heads developed by Ford and Force engineers. The basic design will favor areas such as the main caps register and the main webs in the block. Its engine block also is anodized blue after machining, helping ensure fans and competitors alike know when they’re seeing a Ford nitro engine under the hood. Most of the external surface areas on the new 500-cubic-inch engine have been redesigned; a new belly pan was designed for better sealing; and the valve covers purposely call back the old Ford BOSS motors. The engine also features Ford main bearings with actual parts numbers in the Ford performance catalog. We had three things in mind when we set out on this project,” Davis said. “First, for marketing purposes, we wanted to say that we were putting reality behind the term ‘Powered by Ford.’ “Second, on the technical side, we have always helped out with aero, chassis development and now safety, but we always stopped short of the engine. This project has been a technical exercise for our engineers and the Force team to take the current motor, redesign it and make it a Ford. “Finally, we want fans to associate this engine with Ford and Force, but we also know this provides a new revenue opportunity for us,” Davis added. “In Funny Car, the plan is for this to be a John Force Racing-exclusive engine at the start, but we do want to be able to sell it to Top Fuel teams for competition in the near future.” Davis said that the current plan is for new Force Mustang driver Mike Neff to use the Ford BOSS 500 engine full-time in 2008 as it goes through its development phase. The other Force Mustang drivers - John Force, Ashley Force and Robert Hight - will use the engine after it has been further developed. Ford and Force Racing also are investigating a team to be the first development operation in Top Fuel, with a measured, commercial rollout to more competitors after it has gone through a prove-out stage in that division. OK, here’s the link where the above can be found: http://media.ford.com/newsroom/release_dis...m?release=27129 On 3/28/08 I attended the NHRA Houston, TX event to see a day of time trials and get my semi-annual fill of nitro fumes and hear the thundering roar of 8000 or so Horsepower engines. While there I had a chance to see and take pictures of the FORD (warmed over Chrysler) engine and have a little conversation with Mike Neff, driver of the aforementioned car. I asked Mike, “Is it really a Ford or is it a warmed over Chrysler”? Mike replied, “It really is a Ford”. I then asked Mike, “Is it a “push rod hemi”? Mike replied, “Yes”. I said, “Then it really is a Chrysler wearing a Ford badge”. He then replied, “Well, it has got Ford main bearings”. OK, I have a couple of pictures which show the cylinder head is a true HEMI®, plus a shot of the very unique style HEMI® rocker arms which by the way first appeared in 1951 Chrysler. http://members.aol.com/rameffect/P1010007.jpg http://members.aol.com/rameffect/P1010013.jpg Neither of the two above pictures reveal anything remotely near the design of any engine ever built by Ford or any other automotive manufacturer. It seems that Force/Ford want to “hang their hats” on only the engine main bearings in order to claim it is a Ford design and this brings to mind how that years ago a main/rod bearing oiling problem was solved as noted in the following excerpt and link. From the start, Pete struggled with oiling system problems with the little Ford motors. The Ford, of course, was a purely passenger car based design and was never engineered to handle the kind of power output (supercharged, on gas or nitro/alcohol) that Pete's modifications produced. The result was a serious "appetite" for main and rod bearings, this problem being severely accelerated when Pete ran on fuel. (Hardly a big surprise!) He finally solved those problems by enlarging the entire oiling system, rerouting more oil to the mains and rods, and building his own large-volume, high-pressure oil pump. Ironically, when Pete went to the new SOHC 427 Ford "Cammer" he ran into more oil system problems, as did all the Ford Cammer racers who ran blown motors. (The injected nitro motors seemed to survive with only moderate maintenance) This caused considerable grief (Kalitta destroyed "truck loads" of SOHC 427's in the early days of running the Fords!), and Pete spent a considerable amount of time "bottom-end diving" to replace mains and rods that were "one-pass wonders." The final cure for all those woes was the adaptation of the basic oiling system developed (also by much blood, sweat and burned bearings!) by Chrysler for the then-new 426 "Late Model" hemi motors. Ford guys also found their parts problems eased because they went to Chrysler style/size bearings and the Chrysler oiling systems. http://www.draglist.com/hill/pete%20robinson.htm You might wonder why I chose to name this little story, “THE BOSS IS BACK”. While I was at the Houston race, sitting in the stands, some kid comes up, sits right in front of me and he has on a new T-shirt with written on the back, “THE BOSS IS BACK”.

http://money.aol.com/news/articles/qp/ap/_...to/rfid84895264 I'm probably the only on here that's ever worked on and driven one; replaced the transmission bands, fixed the radius rod ball joint, repaired the rear end pinion gear and misc. tunings. Here's a little story: Sometime in about 1948 some cousins of mine had a Model T, stripped down and ready for action. One Sunday afternoon we boys were hanging the country store when a couple of local school teachers, young ladies about 22, walked by and said, "Why don't you all give us a ride on your car"? Well my cousin just looked down at the ground and shook his head. Then one of the ladies said, "How about you Ellis, will you give us a ride"? I said "Yes maam, get on". The boys pushed us off to get it started and we cruised off the little hill across a small valley and up a long winding hill about a mile from where we started. Let me say that we had figured out how to advance the spark and lean the carb. out on the fly to make it run faster and let me also say that the radius rod ball had a bad habit of jumping out of it's socket and when that happens the T Mammy goes where ever she wants to go; you have absolutely no control. Okay we then turn around and start back to the store where the boys are waiting and watching; I pull the rabbit ears down, reach over and turn the combination choke and mixture knob 1/2 turn to the right and that T Mammy comes alive. She is coming around the curve making some 50-60 miles an hour when the radius rod jumps out. By this time we are down in the little valley and the T Mammy leaves the dirt and gravel road, jumps a small stream, rides down a bunch of willow bushes, tears down a barb wire fence and then comes back across the road into the ditch on the other side, back up in the road and by then I have her slowed down and under control. Now the teachers have not been under control; they have clawed and scratched me from head to toe while all this was going on and the boys back at the store are laughing their butts off.

Ed>>>>>>"""""— it's OK to be a conservative, but it's not OK to be an incompetent conservative""" I suppose everyone knows that. Is it Ok to be an incompetent liberal?

The liberal news media does and will do anything to make Bush and conservatives look bad; even to the point of presenting lies as in the case of Rather and CBS. The liberal media is making the economy look much worse than it really is, just like they did about conditions in Iraq. Most of these poverty stricken familes have 2-3 cars in running condition; all the children have cell phones and many are illegal aliens. I don't know how the "flower children" are going to take to Obama's personal minister; I guess as long as he's cursing the U.S.A., they'll accept him.

Ralph, you seem to have an open mind to the possibility of true salvation, so would you consider the risk you and anyone reading this is taking IF The Bible is true and you and others could spend eternity in hell. The sadder thing is there are zillions dead and alive that believe they are or were saved by works with the pretense of faith as in catholicism. SALVATION IS A FREE GIFT: IT CAN"T BE EARNED. Would you and anyone else do as I am now suggesting, copy and print the story below which is similar to what I have previously posted, but with a lot added to it. I have had my church pastor check it to which he said it is Biblically true. Print it, then read it a few times, then check it yourself for truth in a Bible. Locate a person, saved by Faith not works, preferably the pastor of a small Baptist church, take the testimony story and your own story to them and seek advice. Perhaps the Holy Spirit will communicate with your spirit and you will know if it does. Here's the story: TESTIMONY OF ELLIS BRASHER, RUSK, TX Like many youngsters I walked the aisle, joined the church and was baptized as an early teenager. I was part of a church going family and felt that it was my duty to be a member of the small Baptist church we were attending. I think I did have some vague understanding of the Bible, about Jesus Christ, His teachings, crucifixion and resurrection. I had no knowledge or understanding that true salvation does indeed involve more than just simply doing something dutiful that I had heard and read about it. Not knowing any better I was satisfied with my perceived salvation and then at about 18-19 years old I began drinking and then in 1962 I wound up in AA at the age of 29 and even then I still thought that years before I had completed my required functions as a Christian and was a saved person. At this time in my life I had only a small knowledge of the Holy Spirit and had never experienced the feeling of His work. I had no idea that a person is only saved at the urging of the Holy Spirit. I may have at one time or another read the below Bible verses, but apparently they did not sink in my young brain. MATTHEW 18:20 "For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst." JOHN 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 6:44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day." The last of the above verses unequivocally states that a person is only saved at the urging of the Holy Spirit and which is the Holy Spirit of the Father. I now realize at that point in my life I was not saved and would not be until many years later. In 1968 a workmate friend may have sensed that I was not saved and started witnessing to me about salvation, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit and many other aspects of true belief. A feeling came over me that I had never experienced before in my life. It was as if you want to rejoice and/or cry at the same time. My friend sensed what was happening and remarked “Ellis, I believe the Holy Spirit is speaking to you right now”. I was confused and simply replied that I did not know what he was talking about. Well, I never forgot that experience and I began to realize that sooner or later I was going to have to do something about it. I carried that experience in the back of my mind some 25 years and then one day I asked my wife if she would like for us to start going to church, she replied, “Yes, I thought you would never ask”. We both started going to Eastside Baptist in Rusk, TX where we were warmly welcomed and in a short while we both moved our memberships there. But I still felt that I needed to do something, but was filled with confusion and anxiety wondering what to do even though on several other occasions I felt the presence and urging of the Holy Spirit. Then sometime later, lo and behold, a man walked the aisle with a story similar to mine apparently confessing his pent up belief and faith in Jesus Christ and wanting to be baptized which he was a few days later. I then realized what I had seen was what I needed to do; so at the next service where I felt that urge I walked down the aisle, told the basics of this story and was baptized a few days later. Now, this does not mean that I or other saved Christians would never sin again; we sin and fall short of the glory of God every day, but the work of Jesus Christ on the cross was and is sufficient for all past, present and future sins of a saved believer. 1 JOHN 1:8 “If we say that we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.” At one time I struggled about the idea that many propose that the Bible can’t be proven as “cold hard fact”. A lady friend, church member cleared that up for me with this remark, “The Bible and salvation are about FAITH; if they were about cold hard fact, there would be no room or reason for faith.” In the past 10-12 years I have spent considerable time reading and studying the Bible and have reached the following conclusions: When a child is born he/she is recorded in God's Book of Life as per Exodus 32:31&32. 31 “So Moses went back to the LORD and said, "Oh, what a great sin these people have committed! They have made themselves gods of gold. 32 Yet now, please forgive their sin—but if not, then blot me out of the book you have written." Even so, the child has a one-way ticket to hell EXCEPT for two circumstances as below: 1. The child/person dies before achieving the knowledge of accountability. 2. At some age and ONLY at the urging/prompting of the Holy Spirit the person accepts and confesses Jesus Christ as personal Savior at which time his/her name is recorded in the Lamb's Book of Life and can never be blotted out. REV. 3:5 “He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. REV. 21:27 “But there shall by no means enter it anything that defiles or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.” Note; if the person dies after achieving accountability and before accepting/confessing Jesus Christ; the name is blotted from God's Book of Life. REV. 20:15 “And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.” And by the way, the person can't just roll out of bed at 9:00 AM Sunday morning and say, "I think I'll just run by the Church a few minutes and get saved", it just doesn't really work that way. God's plan of salvation for mankind was preordained perhaps "forever ago", the plan calling for a '"Perfect Sacrifice" for the redemption of sin with the sacrifice being his only Son, namely Jesus Christ born sin free of the Virgin Mary. As you know we are being bombarded by the media and others about the shortcomings of "Evangelical Christians. If a person is a Christian he at least occasionally reads the Bible and more than likely is aware of what is generally known as "The Great Commission" as it relates to this verse and other similar verses. Matthew 28:19 "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit," The idea of "The Great Commission" is the root cause of all Christian evangelism and all Christians are, or at least should be, aware of the obligation these verses apply as well as the actual urging of the Holy Spirit to comply. Using the word "evangelical" to describe the word "Christian" is totally superfluous. In other words, it isn’t needed. Personally, I spend considerable time as a Christian witnessing to other people and the following verse boosts me up. MARK 8:38 "Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels." If anyone reading this would like to learn more about God’s plan of salvation; my suggestion is read the Bible and I suggest the New King James Version, Personal Study with center column references and footnotes at the bottom of the page. Mine is a Nelson 165. And by the way, if a person does not believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God please consider what ISAIAH wrote some 2700 years ago: ISAIAH 40:22 “It is He who sits above the circle of the earth and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers”. How else could ISAIAH have possibly known the earth was and is round unless inspired by God. And is it just coincidence that the word “circle” appears nowhere else in the Bible. Reading God’s plan of salvation and eternal life is very exciting; God Bless and good reading. Ellis ellisbrasher@aol.com

Most of the below is too deep for a country boy to understand. In Wounding the Spirit: Discrimination and Traditional American Indian Belief System, Locust (1988) provides a list of traditional tribal beliefs held by many American Indians that strongly affect the formal educational process of Indian students: 1. American Indians believe in a Supreme Creator or All-Spirit. 2. The spirit existed before it came into a physical body and will exist after the body dies. 3. Humans are threefold beings made up of a spirit, mind, and body. 4. Plants and animals, like humans, are part of the spirit world. The spirit world exists side by side, and intermingles, with the physical world. 5. Illness affects the mind and spirit as well as the body. 6. Wellness is harmony in spirit, mind, and body. 7. Unwellness is disharmony in mind, spirit, and body. 8. Natural unwellness is caused by the violation of a sacred or tribal taboo. 9. Unnatural unwellness is caused by witchcraft. 10. Each of us is responsible for our own wellness. These beliefs are expressed in various values and attitudes that educators and researchers have noted American Indians adhere to and maintain (Beck & Walters, 1977; Cuch, 1987; Davidson, 1987; Sisk, 1989). http://jaie.asu.edu/v31/V31S1cre.htm

Nice going, macattak. Sorry to hear about the school bus tradgedy up in your area; thoughts and prayers for the ones involved. Does your handle indicate McCain supporter. ;-) I'm anxious to see how the Huckster ;-) does in Texas. I have a personal friend that is a retired pastor that told me that he knew Huck personally; that they had pastored in adjacent small towns in Ark. and the he was an outstandingly moral person.

Critic, no one is too dumb to go to Heaven or too smart to go to hell. You will not go to Heaven simply and only because you are a good person. You will not go to hell simply and only because you commit sin. Baptism is a "works" endeavor and The Bible in many places emphatically states that we are saved by Gods grace thru faith and not works. This being so that no one can boast of his good works for salvation as if he saved himself. The act of baptism is really a testimony to others that a person believed, accepted and confessed the saving grace of Jesus Christ AT the urging of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit, not the water saves a person, but nevertheless there are some that believe in "baptism for the dead", that is it would be satisfactory for a living person to be baptized for a dead person that had not been baptized. And then there are many millions that believed a living person can "buy" a dead person into heaven. Also their belief is that the virgin Mary "outranks" Jesus and that Mary was the mother of God and that the sacrifice of Jesus was not sufficient for the redemption of man's sin. The Bible clearly states in John 1-1 & 2 that God and the Son (Word) co-existed forever ago. Salvation is very simple, man has complicated it.

I don't expect to see any of these, altho I would love to. I do expect to see coal burning boilers with steam turbine, DC generator/motor drive. http://www.steamlocomotive.com/bigboy/

Hemiman>>>"""Nice post!"""" Thanks, Hman, when I saw you had responded a very good feeling came on me, especially after some of the negative remarks. And thanks for having the guts to stand up for what you believe in. MARK 8 : 38 "Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels." Edstock>>>>"""Thank-you, sir. It's a better world with you and hemisbc in it."""" Thanks Ed, and you're OK for a Canuck(sp) ;-). suv guy19>>>""""I would consider it very offensive to be called an evangelist. To me, it represents when people take religion too far."""" I agree that some are on the wrong track, but these are an extreme minority and they get all the ink from the liberal press. And if you tell the truth you will say the press is where you get your ideas and not from hands on nexperience.