atomcat68
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Posts posted by atomcat68
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21 hours ago, Dequindre said:
Jim Farley has brought up a four door Mustang in the past, so I could see that one gaining some momentum internally at Ford. The lifted/offroad Mustang is a cool idea too. I always wondered why Dodge never tried that with the Charger and Challenger.
Chargers and Challengers go off road all the time, although it is not intentional...
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Lincoln as a brand may last longer that Jaguar too. Jaguar is discontinuing every product except the 8 year old F-Pace for the American market anyway. They will have the same amount of choices as Chrysler which is also a brand in danger.
Tata may be throwing all the effort behind Land Rover at Jaguar's expense.
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5 minutes ago, AGR said:
There is way more overlap in Europe than there is at the former Chrysler. Peugeot, Citroen, Fiat, and Opel/Vauxhall are all mostly chasing the same customers. There is also significant overlap with Alfa Romeo, Lancia, and DS.
I would guess that Vauxhall is not needed as it is just Opel with a different name, so just rename it Opel. DS is pointless and they could do without Lancia, although they are trying to rebuild that brand now.
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3 minutes ago, sullynd said:
In addition to those, I would strongly suspect Chrysler.
And Dodge.
Agreed. Dodge would be on probation, but at least they do have concrete future product shown for that brand. The quick change of heart for the Airflow and then saying it will be another product while showing some concept car does not bode well for Chrysler. I believe in that case the decision has been made and this announcement is to brace investors so it isn't a total shock.
Any more failure of the Charger and future CUV for Dodge will be the last straw for them. They will not let anything else fail like the Hornet without repercussions.
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Earlier this month Stellantis said it could sell the rights to use the brand names of discontinued brands such as Autobianchi, and Innocenti to China. Could they also be considering offers for brands that exist which may have prompted today's news?
I'm guessing the brands on the line are Chrysler, Chrysler,Chrysler, DS, Chrysler,Chrysler, Vauxhall and Chrysler.
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Love the car! Hate the name. Call it an Eldorado as it is the spiritual successor to it.
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5 hours ago, akirby said:
Thats bullshit. Focus and Fusion were absolutely in commodity segments with 8 or 9 competitors which were all the same and price was the main factor. Endless price wars yielded little to no profit. Ford had great Titanium sedans but people only bought the cheap SE models. That is the epitome of a commodity product. It’s not the vehicles, it’s the market and the majority of buyers in that market.
It’s like ketchup. You can make the best ketchup in the world but nobody is going to pay a premium for it because all the other ketchups are perfectly fine. Some have a brand preference but they’re not going to pay a big premium for it.
I'll make catsup then...
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I'm scratching my head over the -1 year to date sale of a Chrysler 200. They unsold a car that has been discontinued for six years? Is it going to be sold to someone else later?
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I guess I'm in the minority. I like it.
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It's not bad at all, but for the life of me, I don't understand why they didn't draw inspiration from the last generation of RWD European Escorts or maybe from the first front wheel drive generation as it would have much better fit the "suv coupe" profile and were popular cars.
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2 hours ago, akirby said:
Small car sales aren’t a problem if they’re priced low enough. The problem is making any decent profit margin. They should take C2 and downsize it with 1.0 and 1.5 ecoboosts and maybe a small diesel if that’s required.
They should strive to get as much margin as possible out of a small car, but I feel it is also important to realize that they won't make as much of a percentage of a profit as a large car. The lower priced car is important as an ambassador to a brand to a first time buyer. If it is built correctly and with quality, then that buyer will come back and buy higher priced cars and keep buying the brand. Toyota and Honda managed this flawlessly and Hyundai has accomplished this as well.
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2 hours ago, rmc523 said:
Buick's numbers don't look good if you remove Envista.
I remember when Enclave was first introduced, it was more than half of the Buick sales and a big hit for them. Now it is being outsold by the Corvette.
Lyriq sales are impressive!
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On 6/30/2024 at 1:58 PM, mackinaw said:
Which makes no sense considering that Jeep and Ram supply the lion's share of profits at Stellantis.
But in that case, it was a European company buying out an American one, so that puts them in charge. They have every right to make that choice as if they didn't buy them, Chrysler would have probably been liquidated.
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3 hours ago, tbone said:
That seems like a logical conclusion.
What are the thoughts about Ford’s divestment in Rivian? Positive or Negative?
Im not sure personally. I actually wished they would have bought Lucid out and turned them into Lincoln. They seem to have good product that is attractive which doesn’t receive a ton of attention.
I was disappointed they didn't keep an investment in Rivian and that the Lincoln that they were developing together never saw the light of day.
Lucid will never happen. Sedans are to Ford what crosses are to vampires. Besides you'd have the Saudi royal family to deal with.
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Hmmm, could VW's "Scout" brand may be getting a few new models out of this arrangement?
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Early Escapes, and Rangers are trucks I regularly see with 200k+ miles. A family friend has 3 Escapes with over 250k with a hybrid approaching 300k.
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On 6/21/2024 at 9:41 PM, silvrsvt said:
It is dodgy
The joke I always make when someone asks me if they should buy one is that even the manufacturer put the word Dodge on it, so listen to them.
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On 6/22/2024 at 6:21 AM, Harley Lover said:
The current generation Sienna is a rebuttal of the statement above. It has been significantly decontented (no power third row seat, etc.) of features that its repeat buyers are missing. It might be argued the Sienna is a reflection of its American development (versus Japan) but that's an argument for another thread.
Then again, Toyota still makes a minivan. Ford does not.
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2 hours ago, twintornados said:
I am guessing that Chrysler and Dodge will get sold to a Chinese outlet with Jeep and Ram going to Hyundai.
I could never see that happening. Fiat and PSA fought tooth and nail to get back into the North American market. They got a huge discount ticket by getting a company that specializes in the exact product this market likes (Trucks, SUVs and CUVs) and they didn't even have to do much to develop them.
To get back on track, they need to get to more reasonable prices and products for cash strapped consumers. I could see them giving up on Chrysler right now, Dodge too if the new Charger isn't accepted in the market and fails like the Hornet. I also think that the entire American managerial staff and white collar employees being let go and the entire company being European run exclusively.
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31 minutes ago, akirby said:
Hmm….New since 2019. Maverick. Bronco Sport. Ranger. Bronco. Lightning. Mach-E. E transit.
Discontinued. Fusion. Edge. Focus. Ecosport. Taurus. Continental. MKZ. Transit Connect.
In development. 2 new 3 row EVs. 3 new affordable EVs. T3 pickup.
Unchanged. F series. Mustang. Escape. Corsair. Expedition. Navigator. Nautilus. Transit.
Thats not cutting its just swapping products and adding new products.
Market share from 14.7 in 2015 percent to 13. Also we discuss constantly about cutting costs for short term profit, but over the long haul causing more loss with recalls and quality problems. There has been points that Ford concentrates on more profitable models, but that let them to having a glut of overly expensive products sitting on lots for too many days. Also look at Ford pulling out of markets over the globe. They are making their worldwide presence smaller.
Toyota doesn't do any of this for the most part. They increase market share, stay in markets across the globe, add products without abandoning old ones, and no one can argue that they are a stronger, more profitable company. There is no shame in stating Ford's shortcomings, as long as they can learn and grow.
The new products Ford added are nice, but the question on the topic is if Ford should leave China, which I say they should not. They should learn and adapt and not run away, because pulling out of markets will make then too small and unable to adapt. If they retreat to just a few markets, the competitors they ran from will eventually come here on the home turf and set up shop.
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Other than Lincoln, I think Ford and all American companies should get out of the retreat mindset and stop trying to cut their way to prosperity. There is a reason why Toyota has so much success and it's not because they run away from a problem screaming every time something goes bad. They learn, improve and move forward instead of cut product, retreat from markets, and make things cheaper quality to pad profit.
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On 6/19/2024 at 8:47 PM, ausrutherford said:
Correct...and Buick.
And Ford of Australia that works on Chinese models, and Ford Taiwan and Ford Vietnam that get CKD kits from China. The domino effect would be hard on sales elsewhere.
Then there is JMC, which has launched in dozens of nations as well.
I think that GM's partner, SIAC would probably buy the Buick brand from them and it would disappear from the USA, but would revive in China as it would be in Chinese hands. This is what happened with MG from the UK.
Lincoln would absolutely die. Maybe it would be a trim level for Ford, but If I were running Ford, I'd seriously consider pulling the plug on Lincoln.
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3 hours ago, rmc523 said:
No, Wagoneer is much bigger than Grand Cherokee. Similar to Explorer vs. Expedition. I think customers have just been confused (rightfully so) by the Wagoneer/Grand Wagoneer delineation. Because they're not consistent - for example, Cherokee and Grand Cherokee were always separate models of completely different sizes. But then Wagoneer/Grand Wagoneer are "regular" and luxury versions of the same model.....it'd have made more sense had the Wagoneer been the SWB model and Grand Wagoneer the LWB model.
The rumors are also that the current Durango will become Stealth, and "Durango" will become a Dodge version of Wagoneer.
I do understand they're different sizes. Some brands aren't cut out to sell a vehicle to compete with Tahoe/Suburban or Expedition. Jeep has a seven seat GC and more customers who shop Jeep may be more happy with that. Jeep is choking on product that is too expensive, and I think they really need to reevaluate the need to produce the Wagoneer as it is. Hyundai also could develop a utility to compete with Tahoe but their customer base also won't bite and will be happy being served by the 7 seat Palisade.
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2025 Lincoln Navigator
in Ford Motor Company Discussion Forum
Posted
My 2 cents are that they changed enough for the buyer to tell it's new, but kept enough the same to keep what's expected in a Navigator.