HoustonPerson

Thanks everyone that has contributed positively in helping me resolve this problem. I have learned a lot. In regard to the selling dealer they regard this strictly as routine maintenance. In talking with people that “know” that is not true, and both the batteries and cables are 100% covered under bumper to bumper 3/36,000. Additionally, during this last week I have visited first hand with 4 SuperDuty owners in our boat club. Models 04-07 with 8,000 to 95,000 miles, all have original batteries, and there is zero corrosion. None of those owners have heavy rust stains in the driveway………this battery/cable issue explains the heavy rust since day one on my truck, that the dealer could not explain! All the dealer has done after 3 days in the shop is to replace the cables. The truck still has the original batteries………..so for me the problem is still there, at least in my opinion. Additionally, now that we finally have sunlight in Houston after 3 weeks of rain, I can see the battery shelf is corroded heavily and worse yet, there is a AC line fitting directly under the corner of that tray that is also heavily corroded. At mid day here in Houston it is about 65-70 degrees, with the windows rolled up and the AC set to full max, and full fan recirculate it will barely make the truck 70-75 inside the cab. So I had thought it has not been working very well during the last 4 months; but it never has worked well; it just seems much worse now. For those of you that do have heavy rust stains in your driveway; beware. You are having corrosion that may be damaging in places you can not see. Like the “inside” of the heavy power(+) cable on the passenger side battery on my truck. I will not be posting anymore information about this until this is fully resolved. Rest assured it will be.

As of 2:30 PM today the dealer has not started work on it? When I talked with the service writer on the phone while ago, we both noted there is no corrosion on the battery positive post at all.......it is all on the top corner of the battery next to and under all the big heavy wires. To me it looks like acid has been spewing out the corner of the battery and dripping down onto the main heavy cable, and corroded it from the inside out...........it's just dust. My 50 or so Ford friends here in Houston say it has to be covered under warantee..........but my dealer will not say for sure? It makes no sense to me at all. The service writer did tell me, while he has seen this before and it can be somewhat common, they have "never" seen this on one this new. So to answer your question I do not know.

Yes I am really venting here; but what I consider, my new $50,000 SuperDuty is the the shop not working; and it may not be covered under warantee? This has to be a bad dream. The topic started on chairs; but now my truck don't work........here is the thread: http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/index...mp;#entry134948

Thank You SuperdutyRocks. Maybe I will get to talk with some "kingpin" at the Houston Auto Show next week? My personal 06 F250 Lariat 4x4 actually broke down yesterday (only 23,000 miles) in the Dealership Driveway! They are telling me batteries and cables are NOT covered by bumper to bumper waranty 3/36,000? Hopefully this is all a bad dream! I am not a happy camper........I pray the news is good today.......I will know late this afternoon. BTW the truck is 1000% stock from the factory and 100% of the service as been done at the same dealership since new, all four oil changes (every 5,000)..........the last time they check it was at 20,000 and they declaired all A-OK, and I have that tickets that show it. I was in at 21,000 because the electronic AC on the dash would not stay on, it was black and no air either.........they wanted to replace everything..........I could not stay and had to reschedule; but the AC has worked every since................the whole problem is this battery and cable mess, there was noting wrong with the AC controls........thanks goodness I did not let them mess that up. This has to be a bad dream. Anyway I am not going to talk about it anymore.............I will wait till I hear back this afternoon.

Thank you waloud for your response. The current crop of F series I am talking about is the 2004-2007 F150 and the 2005-2007 F250/350. Virtually all are Lariats 4x4 (a few FX4 in the F150’s) CC ShortBox, and most loaded to the hilt. In other words this is considered mainstream Texas purchase. I am the member of a large wakeboard club, about 700 members. A couple of hundred of us tow boats (most – 90% - in the 8,000 lb range). That can be 2, 3, or more times per week all year long. That can vary from 5 miles to a couple hundred miles round trip. Again this is several times a week, all year long. Approximately 80% have said they will not buy the F150 (04-06) again, due a laundry list of significant reasons. It is virtually the same dozen or so major issues with everyone and seats are always in the top 10 problems. The response always comes back exactly the same “I can not get the seat comfortable!” “It really hurts my back and/or butt”. In addition to the wakeboard club I have talk to hundrends more F150 owners – about 40% there too find the seats very uncomfortable. There are two other significant design flaws in the seats, but I am only talking about the “non-adjustability” part. There is a very strange paradox about the seat adjusts; ultra simple in reality, but extremely difficult to explain. It is something you have to see. There are over a half dozen things you can so with the chair in the F250/350 that you can not in any way do with the F150 (the non-adjustable chair). And it is that failure of adjustment that makes the F150 chair so painful for so many people. If I recall I think Titan may have exactly the same problem (it’s been too many years since I tested them). The paradox part. I have found people that are tall 6’4” and above and skinny (with no butt) normally do not have a problem. Those that are overweight (extra padding) do not have a problem. Those that are short 5’4” or less either skinny or fat do not have a problem. But if you are “normal” or “average” (like most of us in the wakeboard club) you almost always have a problem depending on how your body is shaped. And that turns out to be the 40% that “hate” the F150 seats. Also the older you are, the less likely you will like the seats, the younger you are, you can withstand more “pain” without even noticing. Ok, I can take pictures of a “rocking chair” (yes this is important), and we only have F250/350 left in the family so I can take pics of those chairs. We all got rid of the F150’s but only have pictures of the truck but I don’t think any of the chairs? So someone else may have to take pictures if they want. And I do not know how to paste pictures on this web site? So maybe the moderator would be kind enough to post my jpegs? With the pictures I can then explain what is so terribly wrong with F150 chairs and why no one likes them. Yes I know some actually do like them – but they are not normal. I can also explain with the pictures why the F250/350 chairs are so comfortable (or at least more so then the F150). Those pictures will demonstrate several things you can do for comfort in the F250/350 that you absolutely can not do with the F150 chairs. To me there are two things that are extremely important here: 1. It is extremely simple 2. Ford should have “known” this within the first six months the 2004 F150 was in the market just based on customer feed back and corrected it within the first year. Better yet some engineers head should be on the block for even allowing it to go into production.

Thanks SuperDuey Rocks; thats good news to me............maybe Ford does "know" that people want adjustable seats. Yes what you and waloud have said.......there are a few that like the other type seat (like F150) or it is acceptable to them............but I have never found any that "hate" the F250/350 seats, where a very high percentage "hate" the F150 seats.

Yes it is a mater of opinion, I agree. This is one of those major disconnects between Ford and the Consummer. There is no logical reason seats in the F150 are not adjustable; but they are in the F250/350. A very high percentage of F150 owners will not by another because of the substandard seats. Conversely, virtually no one complains about the F250/350 seats because they are (or have been) fully adjustable. Hopefully Mr. Mulally will not allow this type of disenfranchisement of the SuperDuty customer base. Ford can not afford to overlook basic, expected standard features (requirements) in a $50,000 truck. If Mr. Mulally was aware of the fact the F150 does not have adjustable seats I am sure it would be corrected today………….it all defies simple basic logic. The fact that Ford is unaware of it, also defies logic. How it ever went into production defies logic. Of course it has all been the results of the previous failing corporate management, which hopefully is a thing of the past. I suppose that is still dependent of how much previous management idioms are still in tact? Ford can not afford to treat the F150 like they did the Taurus and bury their head the sand thinking everything is ok. They do not know what customers want and require. They are still fully 100% disconnected from their customers. During the last 4 years our family has received about two dozen detailed product quality surveys direct from the manufacture on Cadillac STS-2, Toyota Avalon-2, Acura TL-4 (my wife’s most favorite car), Lexus 350’s- 3 (my dad’s that replaced the Caddy’s). These surveys covering everything about the car, usually 2 to 4 pages on Radios, another 2 to 4 pages on the AC/Heat, the chairs, the doors, the window glass, the mirrors, the suspension in detail, the full powertrain. Typically the surveys are 18-30 pages with lots of detailed write in space. At least half of those surveys are followed up by the company with phones calls; sometimes lasting for more that an hour. During the last two years my family has spent $300,000 on Ford trucks – that’s 3 F150’s and 3 SuperDuty’s. Each truck came with a basic 4 page survey that basically focused exclusively on the dealership. Nothing was really covered about the truck at all, except that if something did not work, then go see your dealer. Two of the F150 survey’s did ask us what we thought about the “design” of the headlights. The structure of the Ford surveys was really a “self-gratifying” pat on the back to Ford and how great they were………..there was absolutely no interest at about that the customer thought about the product they just spent $50,000 for; nor where there any opened ended questions on how to improve the product – which are standard questions in the GM, Toyota, and Honda surveys. There has “never” been a follow up detailed survey on any of the 6 trucks. Follow up surveys on Toyotas, Hondas, and now even GM appear to be routine business practice; and always with the open ended questions of “How can we make it better?” If Mr. Mulally is going to turn the company around; then 100% of the customers that have purchased a Ford vehicle of any kind during the last two years should receive detailed product surveys with lengthy full detailed questions, with lots of write in space to each major section. And there should be full sections on how to improve the radio, or the AC, or the chairs, or the suspension, etc. Engineers should get on the phone and start talking to the customers, by the thousands in follow up to those surveys. And the entire process should be done again in 6 months with all the customers again. If Ford is attempting to stay in business then they have to get connected with the customers. Ford should all ready “know” that 40% of there customers do not like the chairs in the F150. At the same time they would “know” that 98-99% of the customers do like the chairs in the F250/350. Then they should figure out why and solve the problem. This is not rocket science. Mr. Mulally has done dozens of major significant things to turn the company around. At least 80% seem to be directly on target; about 20% - well it seems he has been given BS by remaining self-serving defective management. Now where are my missing 12 – 30 page surveys with follow up phones calls?

Thanks Waloud and SDRocks, the "comfort" part of it is really important to me. To me: my 06 F250 Lariat CC 4x4 gets at B+ for comfort (close to Lexus A+). My 04 F150 Lariat 4x4 CC gets an F- (an apple crate is much better D-). Without a question the F150 chairs are the most excruciating painful chairs ever made. Trips from Houston to Dallas have me nearly paralyzed, any trip over 30 minutes would. There is absolutely no way to adjust the chairs; it can not be done. It appears to be the same affect for nearly half (I would say 40%) the F150 owners. No one I have talked too has that problem with the F250/350 chairs. Looking forward to SDRocks reply too. Thanks Guys.

Thanks I really appreciate it

In the 05-07 SuperDuty (captain chairs or 40/20/40) Lariat: When you moved the power seat button "up" or "down" the "entire" seat (both the cushion and the back) would move "up" or "down". In the F150 "only" the seat cushion moves "up" or "down" not the seat back. Will the 08 SuperDuty seats be like the 05-07 models (the seat all moves together) OR will it be like the current F150? Does anyone know for sure?

Most dealers around here have been out of 07's for some time or have only configurations most do not want. They are having trucks shipped in from other parts of the country. Nearly 50% of the market in Texas is 4x4 Lariats CC ShortBox loaded and they are a rare find. It appears there has been a little "uptick" in pricing for 06/07 (new and used): 1. They have proven to be reliable and 2. The slight shortage of units One dealer told me the SuperBowl is supposed to be a big splash for the 08; but that now is 3 week old info, who knows. They also said they really did not expect significant numbers of the 08's till mid February.........again that was all before the law suit thing.

That is just the normal Ford advertising, and hopefully of the past. 1. It’s not concrete – it is only foam and styrofoam made to look like concrete. 2. It has an advertised as a 3,000 lb payload. That too is not true. The demographic market target of the 4x4 Lariat CC F150 has a “so-called” rated payload of 2,000 lb. Which is also not true. The real world is closer to 1,000 lbs. The Mr. M influence has helped make the Ford ads a little more “truthful”. Much of the “types” of ads seen last year will not be seen again. Thanks goodness I have not seen a “Bill” ad in over 3 months. Ads like the Edge – driving on the edge of buildings should have great success; because it is a completely different “type” of ad. But for the thousands of Texans buying $50,000 Lariats (all the F Series) “truth” in advertising will be the “only” way to go. If Ford can not step up to the plate this year with “truth” in advertising, their customers will go elsewhere.

Edstock, yes you are correct; I should have completed my statement - but felt I covered that several posts back. Not only is the torque converter not locking up; but the tranny is staying 3rd or 2nd instead of 4th............it does not do that in the F250 5.4L with 5 speed on the same course, load, and speed........only the F150 does that. The F150 is not able to tow 8,000 lbs at legal hi-way speed and stay in 4th gear, even on flat ground 90% of the they stay in 3rd and very often 2nd. Hence the absolutely terrible gas mileage. The engine does not hold up well staying at very high rpm for mile after mile. About the only time you can get them into 4 th is to drop to 50mph, then it lugs and would naturally downshift. As I said the F250 with the same engine does not do that, and consistently gets 30% to 50% better mileage when towing 5,000 to 8,000 lb trailer (boats).

I have driven 5 F250's with the 5 speed auto and 5.4Lgas (they are very hard to find - rare), and have towed once with that combination (2-2005 and 3-2006). Each short distances, and only about 50-70 miles each. The tow was with a 5,000 trailer. That powertrain combination is very good, no tranny power loss at all, locks into gear and usually stays there. Empty the F250 feels like it has about double the power of the F150; more importantly it could actually tow, and finally - a very unscientific test (vs the detailed testing I have done before on a repetitive 150 mile test loop) - it was able to get about 11mpg, something the F150 can not begin to approach. The engines that are getting toasted or trashed in the F150 from towing is caused by the excessive high rpm, mostly from the torque converter unable to lock up. I do not know of any that have overheated, most of the destruction takes place in the valve train from the excessive RPM. Have you ever noticed how some F150's are butter smooth "quiet" and others sound like a garbage disposal with bones in them. Those that have been doing some towing with trailers or boats on a routine weekend basis, in the 5,000 to 8,000lb range are making a lot of noise. You can easily hear at idle in the drive way. At 30,000 miles on the meter it will usually be pretty bad, if that truck has been doing some towing. If your going to Home Depot to get two bags of peat moss it will not be a problem; and that is a very high percentage of F150 owners. If Ford were to actually use the 5 speed instead of the current 4 speed in the F150, they could finally probably meet their so called towing rating of 8,000 lbs in 4x4 Lariat CC loaded out form. That is an exceptionally important demographic to Ford (4x4 Lariat/top drawer), the would be best served by not overlooking it. MPG would go way up too.

Thank you Extreme 4x4 at least you’re being civil.

Extreme4x4 You have only proven you can not read. Hope it gets better.

old_fairmont Knows exactly what he is talking about. The tranny in the F150 is junk, it works the engine so hard and has so much slippage in it, it simply burns up the engine. My F150's were toast in the first 30,000 miles. And 50 of our 800 member wakeboard club that own F150’s are NOT Buying F150’s again because of that reason. These trucks can not tow and Ford is mis-leading the public is stating they can! Ford would do them selves good to have honest tow ratings, like the others. Absolutely “none” of the Titans, Chevy’s, Dodges, or Tundra’s in our club have this problem. Keep in mind the Tundra 4x4 DoubleCab OffRoad (2005-06 models) are rated at only 5,200 lb towing – a “true” figure. And that truck stays in 5th gear (top gear) at 70mph (90%), and gets about 8-9mpg. That is something the Ford F-150 can not do; again not even close. If Ford wants to keep the F150 a viable “competitive” product and claim it can tow 8,000 lbs then they will have to put in an engine and tranny that can do it. Just because some advertising idiot puts down on paper it will tow 8,000 or even 11,000 lbs does not mean it will do it. If Ford is not going to put in a powertrain that can tow 8,000 lbs then they need to adjust their tow ratings down – a LOT, and be real.

The F150 tested were 2004,2005,2006 and they are a 4 speed auto. Yes what you said is for sure true the Titan has had some problems; but F150 spitting out spark plugs is not too much different.........they still fail; often in the 25,000 to 40,000 mile range. Add to that list the extreme transmission slipping that is so common in the F150 line. Since I did not discuss any of the other points, I really could care less about 0-60 times or someones testosterone, I was only referring to real world towing and Ford's credibility in advertising; something the other companies are truthful in.

Exactly, that is what I mean. If the F150 Lariat 4x4 with moonroof CC has a tow rating of about 8,700 according to FMC AND the Titan 4x4 Off Road Package w/Trailer Tow Package/moonroof has a tow rating of 8,500. The difference is as follows from Houston to Huntsville pulling an 8,000 boat; 150 mile test loop: The Titan can go and maintain 70mph and stay in 5th gear 97% of the time and only occasionally drop back to 4th gear about 3% of the time; with an 11mpg average. The Ford can not maintain 70mph (I have tested three of them). It can maintain 60mph, pulling the same boat with the following results: 1. 4th gear about 20% of the time 2. 3rd gear about 40% of the time 3. 2nd gear about 10% of the time, with a drop back to 45mph The Ford consistently would get 4.0mpg on this test loop. The Dodge Ram 1500 virtually matched the Titan for towing; that is stayed in top gear most of the time and consistently got 11mpg. The only way the Ford F150 can maintain top gear is with a speed of 45mph; therefore, to me and thousands of other truck owners that is false advertising. Ford needs to get real, and actually produce a 4x4 Lariat CC, optioned out, that can actually tow 8,000 down the hi-way, OR be truthful with their tow ratings.

I agree with virtually everything you said except the last part. "Truth" in Advertising and Marketing is one of those major ares FMC falls way short. And thousands of truck owners around here know the same thing. Yes a Titan half ton can hold 4th and 5th gear towing 8,000lbs at 70mph all day long going up and down the hills in SE Texas. The F150 can not, not even remotely close. Ford has gone "way over the line" with what is real and what is not, regarding towing on the F150. Ford is the only one that stretches the truth like they do. IMHO Dodge, Titan, Tundra, and Chevy appear to be truthful in this area for their half ton tow ratings. FMC has made some major changes in advertising during the last 60-90 days to restore credibility; but when I seen a statement like 11,000 lb towing for an F150..........well the short story is Ford's looses 100% of their credibility with a statement like that.

Several F150's; F250/350, Titans, Dodge 1500/2500/3500, and one 2003 Chev 2500HD. All towing loads in the 8,500 lb range all across Texas. All the others were 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007. Specifically, it does not matter to me what Ford Marketing says the F150 can tow, I know for a fact it can not tow that load, and so do several thousand more Texans that tow on a regular basis. Again, it all comes back to credibility.

Oh wow, more marketing hype; minus another 100 points on the credibility scale. So Ford is trying to save the F150, by more false advertising…………Can we say Taurus! If Mr. M allows that to go to press, then I won’t be buying stock!

Mr. M now is the time to save FMC. Super Duty's are now beginning to arrive at dealers. Without SuperDuty there is no FMC! The good news is about 5,000 out of 10,000 of the major short comings have been addressed for the 08 SuperDuty. However; based on what little information I have, and working only from pictures of the new MY08 Super Duty. Two serious items: It appears the seats have been copied from the F150? A seat design that fully 40% of your customers find extremely uncomfortable, actually painful to sit in for any length of time. The MY05 thru MY07 SuperDuty seats only have a complaint rate of less than 1% Weather Stripping design and quality: The failure rate is 100% on the MY 05-07; and it appears it has been carried over to the 08 This all comes back to understanding what is necessary to be competitive in the market place. Several years ago when the Toyota Tundra Double Cab came out, it too had exceptionally poor seats. I complained and within 90 days Toyota did a complete redesign and corrected the seats, now they are amoung the most comfortable in the market place (actually very similar to the MY05-07 SuperDuty). FMC must become responsive to what customers want in order to be competive. The way I see it a $50,000 truck without seats is not going to do it. btw KTP is excellent, and the work they do is as good as Toyota.

That sounds great, I know my fourth $50,000 Lariat (3 superdutys and one 2004 F150 have each had new EATC's installed........the latest in my 2006 F250 with only 20,000 miles), if they can figure out how to make that work and get cold air at the same time would be a miracle! Every F250/350 2005-2007 have failed weather stripping, leaks etc. It only cost 10 cents more (if that?) to get quality parts that "work"...........that is what consumers want in a $50,000 truck. For sure get the bean counters out of the way; from the capital expenditures down to the engineering/design and parts level. Mr. M knows (since he owned a Lexus and I assume he still does), that evertime you get in the car, the AC/Heat system knows exactly what to do............no hands are required on the controls at all......it works perfectly everytime. So surely at this very late stage of the game the 2008 SuperDuty's will finally for the first time have automatic AC. AC that you do not have to reprogram everytime you step back in the car, even when you stop for gas! How dumb is that. Surely they got this stuff right. IF NOT. Mr M. should stop the assembly line on the new SuperDuty now. If the AC system does not work like it does on his old used Lexus...........then the new SuperDuty's should not leave the building!

Thanks for posting the longer article; it does give a little more insight. BeanCounting in regard to capital expenditures is discussed; but, the article is not really fully "revealing" in regard to "penny pinching" on specific products. Overall, the article is 100% positive for Ford; it would be more beneficial if FMC would "for sure" take it to the next level and insist on purchasing high quality parts at the lowest possible price. The previous policy of paying the highest prices for parts with the lowest quality (bean counter controlled), has proven disastrous. A case in point is virtually all of Ford’s electronics fall into this category; from simple switches to high ticket radios. This has been one of dozens of areas FMC has not been competitive